Chasing accuracy with proof barrel.

M

Marv_2101

Private
Minuteman
Jun 12, 2024
66
45
Mississippi
#1
I just put together a new gun chambered in 6.5 creedmoor with some pretty decent parts. I’ll post a few pictures.
554061F3-3081-41CE-A0FF-6DDC30AB2C57.jpeg

5C350EFD-9C47-4ADB-8669-ADEAC4406DE7.jpeg


This is my first gun on a custom action and I cannot get it to shoot ANY factory ammo. I know this isn’t a huge list of ammo but some of it is high quality and I’d expect it to shoot. All of this is shooting 1 moa at best with most of it over 1 moa. I tried some hand loads I had from an older 6.5 and they also shot poorly but my SD was a 3.8 so maybe there’s hope with the hand loads.

Factory ammo I’ve tried
140 grain Berger hybrid target
140 grain eld match
140 grain Serria gold metal match
140 grain federal fusions
125 grain Winchester xp

Things I’ve checked.
-Action screw torque 65 front 45 back per manners.
-Scope ring, base 55 in lbs per ARC
-Rail 25 in lbs
-Head space is good with the go and no go gauges I have checked this multiple times.
-I’ve lightened the trigger to 3oz to try to rule out any shooter error.

Am I the best shooter, absolutely not but I’ve shot plenty of .3-.5” groups in my time. I got frustrated yesterday and cleaned the barrel and put the gun up and grabbed another gun of mine that I know shoots and shot a .33” group at 100. I’m going to work up some hand loads today with h4350, lapua brass, Cci 200s and Berger 140 grain hybrid targets and Hornady ELDMS. It’s kind of disappointing though as I had a Ruger American that will out shoot this gun 10/10 times with factory ammo.

This isn’t a bashing post by any means I’m looking for some solid advice as I had high hopes for this barrel.
 
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#3
Have you tried shooting without the suppressor? I have had a few barrels that wouldn't group with whatever suppressor, brake. I have even had it to where a gun would stop grouping in the middle of a session. After many rounds and parts swapping, found out it was the suppressor. Sent it back, the manufacturer looked it over, cleaned it and it shoots fine now.
 
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#4
Bacarrat said:
Have you tried shooting without the suppressor? I have had a few barrels that wouldn't group with whatever suppressor, brake. I have even had it to where a gun would stop grouping in the middle of a session. After many rounds and parts swapping, found out it was the suppressor. Sent it back, the manufacturer looked it over, cleaned it and it shoots fine now.
Click to expand...
I just cleaned this can but I will try that. I shoot supressed 100% of the time though so that would be a big let down. But I have a few brakes I can try to.
 
#7
Marv_2101 said:
I just cleaned this can but I will try that. I shoot supressed 100% of the time though so that would be a big let down. But I have a few brakes I can try to.
Click to expand...
I had that issue with a PVA barrel that didn't like reflex cans. Had to run a different brake and can combo.

Shoot some rounds with a bare muzzle and it will confirm of it's the issue.
 
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#13
55 inch pounds on scope rings?

That is high...18 to 20 inch pounds is max on a Vortex scope. Get a different scope on it, and tighten the rings to 18 inch lbs.

Take the scope off the rifle you shot a .33" group, and install on this one.

The rings can be lapped for more grip.
 
#15
45-90 said:
55 inch pounds on scope rings?

That is high...18 to 20 inch pounds is max on a Vortex scope. Get a different scope on it, and tighten the rings to 18 inch lbs.

Take the scope off the rifle you shot a .33" group, and install on this one.

The rings can be lapped for more grip.
Click to expand...
It’s a ARC m brace. 1 bolt design, it’s what they recommend. I have the same mount on my other gun with a mark 5 that’s torqued to the same specs.

If I can’t get it to shoot with a few hand loads I will swap scopes
 
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#16
powdahound76 said:
If it wont shoot, contact Proof.

I’ve not had any issues with their barrels, prefit or smith chambered and they for sure happen.

And I do believe they will stand behind it


ARC rings require different torque values than a traditional cap scope ring.
No issues on scopes, its a design thing
Click to expand...
I have. Proof prefits are a crap shoot. Of the 3 that I have, 2 don't group for shit. I have proof barrels chambered by a smith, and they shoot as well as anything else. I have yet to have a barrel chambered by a good smith from any of the cut rifle manufactures that is not able to hold sub .5 with good ammo. That Berger and fggm should both hold sub .75 easy.

Proof also used to have issues with bore diameter consistency. My theory is this combined with running reamers way past their life, is what causes issues.

I would only buy a proof prefit out of desperation... As in there is no other option. Their blanks chambered by a competent smith should be just fine.
 
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#17
I have 3 prefits that all hammer.
2 CF (6.5 creed 22” and 300 wsm 24”)
1 steel .223 Wylde
All shoot well with easily developed loads.

3 steel AR barrels

2 new ones now that are smith chambered CF barrels that are both shooting .6-.7 during break in with basic factory and generic handloads.


I have heard the issues with the prefits which is why I say they do happen.

Buddy had proof 2 CF blanks chambered by a smith that were hard to tune.
Then a couple big mistakes by same smith on different things and I told him that was likely a smith issue and not a blank issue IMO.
He uses a different plumber now
 
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#18
45-90 said:
55 inch pounds on scope rings?

That is high...18 to 20 inch pounds is max on a Vortex scope. Get a different scope on it, and tighten the rings to 18 inch lbs.

Take the scope off the rifle you shot a .33" group, and install on this one.

The rings can be lapped for more grip.
Click to expand...
Arc mounts are different than conventional rings, hence the "unusually high" torque. I've got several proof barrels, steel and carbon, and they all shoot. I've got a steel proof on an ai in 6.5creed that is wicked accurate with 140 and 147 eldm. Try some handloads with the eldm .025 off rifling and report back. Your rifle has alot of nice components and shoot fantastic. I also second shooting without can/bare muzzle. That will atleast rule out harmonic/near baffle strike or disruption of projo.
 
#20
DeathBeforeDismount said:
I have. Proof prefits are a crap shoot. Of the 3 that I have, 2 don't group for shit. I have proof barrels chambered by a smith, and they shoot as well as anything else. I have yet to have a barrel chambered by a good smith from any of the cut rifle manufactures that is not able to hold sub .5 with good ammo. That Berger and fggm should both hold sub .75 easy.

Proof also used to have issues with bore diameter consistency. My theory is this combined with running reamers way past their life, is what causes issues.

I would only buy a proof prefit out of desperation... As in there is no other option. Their blanks chambered by a competent smith should be just fine.
Click to expand...
Weird, I've got 2 proof prefits that shoot in the .2-.3s. I'd have no problem getting another.
 
#21
E40760EE-A13E-4501-9C59-073BDA6079EA.jpeg


From today, there’s a few .5 groups in there but they’re not consistent. Have tried shooting with and without suppressor, even put the gun in a MPA BA chassis still shoots like crap. Have double checked everything. I’ve gotten frustrated again so gun is going back in the safe and I’m having a 🍺

I haven’t swapped scopes yet that’ll be my next move then a call to proof.

I’ve worked up charges from 40.5 to 42 grains with h4350 and 140 grain ELDMS and Berger hybrid targets. I feel like I’m just wasting components at this point. Everything is 20 thou off lands
 
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#23
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#24
Marv_2101 said:
View attachment 8652688

From today, there’s a few .5 groups in there but they’re not consistent. Have tried shooting with and without suppressor, even put the gun in a MPA BA chassis still shoots like crap. Have double checked everything. I’ve gotten frustrated again so gun is going back in the safe and I’m having a 🍺

I haven’t swapped scopes yet that’ll be my next move then a call to proof.

I’ve worked up charges from 40.5 to 42 grains with h4350 and 140 grain ELDMS and Berger hybrid targets. I feel like I’m just wasting components at this point. Everything is 20 thou off lands
Click to expand...
Try jumping them more. Berger hybrids like alot of jump. .030 to .100 jump.
 
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#26
I've got a 26" med palma bart 6.5creed that it's money load is 140eldm@2885. It's warm for sure, but no pressure signs in lapua brass in a badger action. It shot ok at slower speeds but really woke up when I got into higher node.
 
#27
Oof!! 43.3 of h4350 and a 147 eldm in Lapua brass is a tad stiff (ie, pushing well above sammi pressure max )



Try jumping those ELDMs a little further?
In one of our barrels with a SAMMI chamber Im seating them at 2.800” COAL and pretty consistent right around .5 groups when I put them on paper.
A few nearer .7 and thats likely more the nut behind the trigger.
Barrels I shoot the 140 bergers in Im jumping them a tad more than 20 thou too. Closer to 50-60 without looking at my books
 
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#28
If it won’t shoot with 2 different bullets and factory ammo I would immediately stop shooting it, pull it off and replace it with another. Contact proof and potentially send it back.

Even if they won’t take it back, it looks like it’s not worth the time components. It would be going in the scrap bin if it were mine.

Everyone eventually gets bad barrel. Be happy it’s just a cheap steel proof prefit.
 
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#29
powdahound76 said:
Oof!! 43.3 of h4350 and a 147 eldm in Lapua brass is a tad stiff (ie, pushing well above sammi pressure max )



Try jumping those ELDMs a little further?
In one of our barrels with a SAMMI chamber Im seating them at 2.800” COAL and pretty consistent right around .5 groups when I put them on paper.
A few nearer .7 and thats likely more the nut behind the trigger.
Barrels I shoot the 140 bergers in Im jumping them a tad more than 20 thou too
Click to expand...
Not to derail, but have 1800rds on that barrel and this brass is on 12 firing. I switched over to 140eldm to kind of standardize as other 6.5 guns use that bullet. The group at 550 was shot within the last 2 months.

Op a couple of those groups don't look horrible, and as another said, try some different seating depths with that charge. I'd start at .010 off and work back to .130 off in .030 jumps. That will be far enough apart to see any change and then try .015 on each side of best oal.
 
#30
6brshooter said:
Not to derail, but have 1800rds on that barrel and this brass is on 12 firing. I switched over to 140eldm to kind of standardize as other 6.5 guns use that bullet. The group at 550 was shot within the last 2 months.

Op a couple of those groups don't look horrible, and as another said, try some different seating depths with that charge. I'd start at .010 off and work back to .130 off in .030 jumps. That will be far enough apart to see any change and then try .015 on each side of best oal.
Click to expand...
He is right that is pretty stiff. Get that chamber wet or dirty and you could start running into some serious issues. I don't run more than. 41gr of h4350 loaded long to like 2.925 in any of my 6.5 guns. Keep pressure down to be able to shoot in any conditions safely and reliabiliy.
 
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#31
I'll keep it in mind, but I've shot that load in blowing dust storms, rain and freezing rain. It's been nothing but we'll mannered. If I was getting loose primers at 3 or 4 firings, ok, but it's just been plugging along. Also as far as predictable, it's been used on nuisance permit deers at distances I don't really want to say in public. First rd hits were never a problem.
 
#32
Marv_2101 said:
With 42gn of 4350 I’m at 2830fps no pressure signs and my SD is a 3 but not shooting well. I feel like anything 2800+ is asking a lot of the 6.5 CM. I can push further but I’ve got to be close to pressure
Click to expand...
6.5cm 22” CF Proof and I had the same issues you’re having and was just as frustrated. Put the gun in the safe and just didn’t want to deal with it. I was watching an old Johnny’s Reloading bench YT video and he started messing with seating depth and fixed the same issue so I figured I’d try it. Looked at all my load data and started with the “best” groups and lowest SD’s. I’m down to .5 shooting 143 eld-x’s, 41.8gr H4350, 2725fps @ 2.790 OAL. 140 & 147 eld-m’s shot way better as well. I just have a lot of the 143’s right now.
 
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#33
So I did end up swapping scope’s yesterday and shot a good group in the .3s right from the get go so though maybe that way the issue so I followed it up with a confirmation group and it shot about 1 MOA so that rules out the scope. Put the razor back on with the same load and it’s 1 MOA or slightly over.

So at this point I’ve pretty much exhausted all options other than contacting proof and pulling the barrel. I guess I could play with seating depths but I’ve honestly NEVER had a 6.5 CM that’s this picky with ammo. I think I’ll be giving them a call to see what they have to say.

I’m probably going to order a new barrel as I’ll never have faith in this one now. I have a criterion barrel on my 30-06 that will shoot in the .5s on a bad day.
 
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#34
Marv_2101 said:
So I did end up swapping scope’s yesterday and shot a good group in the .3s right from the get go so though maybe that way the issue so I followed it up with a confirmation group and it shot about 1 MOA so that rules out the scope. Put the razor back on with the same load and it’s 1 MOA or slightly over.

So at this point I’ve pretty much exhausted all options other than contacting proof and pulling the barrel. I guess I could play with seating depths but I’ve honestly NEVER had a 6.5 CM that’s this picky with ammo. I think I’ll be giving them a call to see what they have to say.

I’m probably going to order a new barrel as I’ll never have faith in this one now. I have a criterion barrel on my 30-06 that will shoot in the .5s on a bad day.
Click to expand...

It isn't impossible to get a barrel that doesn't shoot lights out, even from a fairly reputable company.

Although, as a dude who loves to tinker with handloads, and is blessed to shoot and reload from his shop; seating depth matters. Some bullets and barrel combinations more than others, and there is no guarantee. However my last .223 barrel and 75gr ELD-M had accuracy similar to yours EXCEPT one particular seating depth where it went ftom one MOA to half that. It then subsequently shot sub-minute with every charge weight and powder, and is a consistent .4 barrel with the final load.

This isn't the reloading section, so I'll shut up now...and if you need proof of my ramblings, I've got a ton of target photos.
 
#35
All joking aside..stop wasting money and time

Like said previously, if 2-3 factory match can’t shoot better than .75, it’s time for a phone call

I’ll never understand why guys will waste time, money, barrel life which is money as well trying to work “ a load that will shoot”

If it doesn’t shoot a Berger and lap brass reasonably well..it’s a banana not a barrel.

Everyone makes a dud and if you shoot enough everyone gets a dud
 
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