I Spy New Baby Razor G3 4-24
- Thread starter AznTactical
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Pretty small detail but I really wish Vortex staggered their .2 subtentions like a lot of other reticles.
Ya its a small detail but an important one to me as I hold over for majority of my competition shooting. I agree I do like the staggered subtensiond and actually like how bushnell EQL Reticle does it. The short lines are .2 or .8 and the longer ones are .4 and .6. I get most shooters dial... so Im a small whiner in the grand sceme.
Happy Trails
Seems vortex always finds a way to disapoint me. They have it in the EBR 7D reticle but they are dots and are undisgustionable from each other for wind holds so I gotta play the counting game. I just want a more useable tree out of vortex is all. Its nitpicking and I welcome a 4-24 and its all speculation until it releases.
I don't think Vortex would be guilty of it, but it's kind of surprising how many modern reticles still have .5 and 1 marks only on the Y axis. Kahles and Leica come to mind readily.
It’s a Gen 3 so why would they go back to a .5 mil mark from a .2 in the 7D in the 6-36? I hold a lot at matches too and no issues with the 7D. It’s a very usable reticle. The new Bushnell you seem to like has dots in wind holds and they are .5 mils and also indistinguishable from each other. Not even a larger dot at each full mil like the 7D. When they get down to lines at 3 mils they are still .5.
Just comes to personal preference as all reticle do but I hate .25 mark reticle as none of my data is .25. It’s one more line with .2 marks and is easier for me to hold accurately.
Huh. I don’t have the dot problem on my various Vortex scopes (.06 small dots and .09 large ones). I think they’re perfectly sized so they aren’t too obtrusive. I own the G2 w/EBR-2C and PST II’s with both the 2D and 2C variants.
But we all have different eyes, so I get it.
Do you like the NF Mil-XT dots? Small .05 and large .1 dots, so there’s a bigger differentiation. I find them a bit more intrusive in my NX8 4-32, but I’m a varmint shooter and not a competitor on the clock.
Here’s 2C (same dots as 7D) vs a Mil-xt reticle pics. 1st one is mine. Different magnifications so this is not scientific:
And here’s some 7D and Mil-XT drawings. These are magnified quite similarly:
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I like the MILXT over the the EBR reticles, kinda get lost in all the vortex offerings from updateing their reticle designs over the years. I give the milxt the win for the staggered subtensions and floating dots at every mil line. If I had it my way Id make the 1 mil windage marks on the tree a small hash and either the .2 and .8 smaller or bigger than the .4 and .6 so its just faster for a brain to compute especially on a 90 second clock with 10 transitional targets. I think Bushnell has the reticle 90% there with the EQL which I like alot, just wish they had comparable glass to a ATACR or Kahles.. I haven't been behind a Gen 2 or 3 vortex in a long while so I cant compare them side by side with mine and buddies line ups. I also realize that vortex does offer. 2 subtension in tree now so I inserted my foot into mouth, Im good at that sometimes. I dont know alot of shooters that primarily hold over vs dial so I understand that Im just a few who want a really stellar reticle for hold overs.. If they offered Horus reticles on the G3 Id probably just shut up... (sure some one gonna say they offer horus reticles now)
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I find the .5 divider below the line makes deciphering .2 .4 .6 and .8 very intuitive.
Not unique to Vortex but I find a lot of the Christmas tree reticles to be too wide. On the EBR-7 at 5 mil elevation there are 4 mils of windage marks each way. For me that's over 30mph of wind and with the elevation numbers on the edge I find I can mistake 5 mil elevation for 4 or 6. I kind of liked having the numbers in the middle like the EBR-2.
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Looks nice and compact, undoubtably heavy which doesn't bother me really... except they still wanna make them purple for some reason.
I was shooting in 32mph winds at a MOA steel match lol Not gonna say I did well I won it but was the one time it was nice to have all that windage in the tree haha.
made a 1st round impact at 1068 with an 18" 223 DMR.
Needed 15.2 mil of elevation (only had 13 I could dial)
Needed 5.5 Mil of wind. Didn't have enough to hold and was forced to dial.
I prefer having the choice...have since changed optics.
I like that too. Less clutter.
For small varmints (1”-4”) that are the same color as the dirt, shooting the EBR-2C and limited release 2D are near peak perfection for me. I’m balancing visibility through the tree vs. fine holds.
I can see for stressful situations that you’d want to see every number, half-mil dots, and obvious main stadia .2 hashes like the Mil-XT has.
In other words, if you’re shooting larger targets (oft white, colored, or for the mil guys, people-sized) then the I could see that it’s ok for the tree to be more cluttered.
I guess I kind of phrased that wrong. My issue isn't having too much windage in the tree so much as the numbers being so far apart, especially when shooting in brush or low light or other times it's difficult to see the edges of the reticle.
Even without centerline numbers if they had some sort of distinguishing mark every 2 mil or something I think it would help.
Reticle will be a 7D so anyone with a 6-36 will have no problems moving over. The 7D is a nice usable reticle for holds. Can’t wait for this little guy to hit the market in a few months. Will be a great fit on my 6ARC AR for gas gun.
Am I the only one who wishes they would go back to just the .5 markings and get ride of the .2
I am sure there are some. You can make a .5 work and I do with my Strike Eagle but given the choice I find I can be more accurate with holds with the .2 marks. Especially in Rimfire matches with the smaller targets.
I kind of flip-flop on this one. I enjoy the openness of the .5 markings, but see the value in the .2.
Since I’m usually a holder vs a dialer, I wonder if I’d like .5 on the main horizontal stadia (I shoot almost nothing there) but with NF-style .2 vertical hash’s on the main vertical stadia?
Keeping the .2 wind dots, of course.
Hell, people rave about the MSR2 ret but on the main stadia it’s almost all .5 hashes.
I really like just a basic tree reticle. I remember using my 4-16 hensoldt with a mil dot and making hits just fine. The tree just made it easier to quickly place where you saw your splash.
I really like the Genll razor mil tree reticle. Easy to use not much clutter
I really like the Genll razor mil tree reticle. Easy to use not much clutter
I think there is value in consistency of the markings, so my preference is for 0.2mrad based tree reticles that are not excessively busy. The two centerfire rifles I use the most both have Gen3 XR. My rimfire bolt gun trainer that I shoot more than any other rifle I own has RG3 with EBR-7D on it, which is also a relatively unobtrusive tree reticle. I think these represent the type I like the most overall. I would prefer for both to be very slightly thicker, which is probably what I will get in the upcoming 4-24x Gen3.
ILya
ILya
I sure hope so!
A thicker 7D reticle, with only the main cross illuminated, capped windage, a non-stupid tall elevation turret, 31oz scope would be a sweet option. If it’s similar money to the other LOW 4-25 designs then it should be very popular.
That’s assuming it’s basically the same as the other LOW 4-25x50 options (element, tract, etc).
The RAZOR HD GEN III / 6-36X56 FFP / EBR-7D (MRAD) Reticle | 34mm Tube / SKU RZR-63602 has a center dot that is .03 MRAD and a line thickness of .03 MRAD per this link:
vortexoptics.widen.net
It will be interesting to see how much thicker, if any, the EBR-7D is on the Baby Razor G3 4-24.
-Stan
VTX_RZR-63602_EBR-7D_MRAD_RS_I_RI_ST.pdf
It will be interesting to see how much thicker, if any, the EBR-7D is on the Baby Razor G3 4-24.
-Stan
From what I understand, it is not the same design, but I will know with more certainty when it gets here.
ILya
It looks more like the delta Stryker 3.5-21 design based on the picture. Weight wise would be right in there too.
Just to rehash it because I'm bored amd we're talking about reticles this is what gets me:
On a target with a dark backdrop or on high magnification this is easier to be sure you're holding correctly without taking focus off your aimpoint:
Maybe I'm the only person who has an issue with it but it is an issue for me.
On a plus note for almost all Vortex reticle is they have numbered elevation hold under marks above the zero mark going up to 10 mil. This is really useful when dialling and using a weapon mounted laser rangefinder or at matches when there is an easy "confirmation" target you have switch back to.
People complained when the numbers where near the main reticle so Vortex changed it and no they are complaining that it’s not near the main reticle. lol I can use either but as you see it’s not easy to make everyone happy.
Oh yeah I completely understand people feel differently. I think even making the even/odd mil marks different with an extra wide or thick line would help, as well as making the 0.2 marks alternate or different sizes.
But if they made a perfect reticle I wouldn't have anything to come here and bitch about.
With the amount of money people spend on this hobby, I remain surprised that someone hasn't come along with a custom reticle scope purchase option.Oh yeah I completely understand people feel differently. I think even making the even/odd mil marks different with an extra wide or thick line would help, as well as making the 0.2 marks alternate or different sizes.
But if they made a perfect reticle I wouldn't have anything to come here and bitch about.
It would be like Build-A-Bear, except for people who don't want to pay down their mortgage.
-Stan
That would be brilliant. They could charge whatever they wanted and people would pay it. People choose their scopes based on reticle options. My buddy sent his Schmidt and Bender to Germany to have the reticle changed over.
With modern technology you would think people could customize everything aspect and then have it laser etched.
A matter of cost and lead time leads to an unfavorable business case for such a business model. Businesses exist to make money, reliably.
Unpopular opinion but I will take that color over black every time. Here at 7200’ above sea level, the sun heats things up ridiculously fast.
Same here. In the Phoenix desert, black is whack.
Ditto in New Mexico. At this altitude, anything metal with black surface becomes frying pan hot really fast.
ILya
ILya
Well I guess we will have to agree to disagree. As I see it people already wait months for firearms parts such as stocks and barrels. Also Vortex turnaround time for warranty scope servicing is usually just a few days and that's a free service. I'm honestly surprised they don't offer options such as glass replacement for a fee. I used my buddy sending his S&B in as an example as that took months and he was willing to wait.
I have heard this before but nobody has ever laid out hard numbers — always a hand wave and “It’s too hard” to which I respond “Don’t tell me about the labor pains, show me the baby.”
-Stan
Reticle cells are made in batches. If you only need to make one, it will cost well into four digits due to setup, etc.
There are a few places in China that will do it for less, but they are limited in terms of feature size and they are not very consistent in terms of line thicknesses, edge straightness, etc.
I know of a relatively recent scope where after some struggle they decided to make the reticle cell in Europe rather than Asia because they could not get the quality they needed. The reticle ended up costing more than the rest of the optical elements all put together.
ILya
Electronic ones. I already have that in the Element HYPR-7. Eventually, that (or similar) technology will propagate through the scope world.
With conventional glass etched reticles, there will never be a high quality riflescope that offers a user swappable reticle.
ILya
That reminds of USO back in the day. Not sure if they actually did “ build your own” but they had dozens of reticles they had used over the years and no one could say for sure what any given scope had. Mil ? Moa ? Iphy? Only God knows lolOh yeah I completely understand people feel differently. I think even making the even/odd mil marks different with an extra wide or thick line would help, as well as making the 0.2 marks alternate or different sizes.
But if they made a perfect reticle I wouldn't have anything to come here and bitch about.
I guess a matter of perspective. I had to wear gloves to keep from burning my hands on metal vehicles that were painted tan.
Sorry to edit; my post was interrupted by a call from my son. I was simply going to finish with that I think heat absorption is probably more localized to certain areas...mine being a non factor these days.
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This will probably catch on before Stanley and I make any money taking up Rob's scope re-reticling business suggestion.
Sig and other companies have scopes that can overlay holdover points with data fed from rangefinders, digital scopes are a thing but with drawbacks. It's getting closer.
Perhaps I will start a scope company that puts a mark on the bottom of the scope that lines up with a mark on the bottom of the rings so there isn't a scope leveling discussion every week. That seems doable.
They made reticles in small batches and kept a few around here and there. Also, USO's older designs were very forgiving in terms of the reticle feature tolerance. Modern scopes are not.
ILya
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