Sidearms & Scatterguns Best value in a clay gun?

Jmccracken1214

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  • Dec 10, 2018
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    I was recently at a skeet shoot even and havent really ever shot skeet except in the back yard with a hand thrower when I was a kid... Ended up shooting someones older browning semi auto and had a blast. MUCH more fun than I had thought it would have been... Now Im eyeing shotguns since shooting skeet in my area is a lot easier to do than long range.

    I handled some benelli's, browning maxius 2, a5 and then berettas at a local store. The a400 seem to shoulder the best for me. The a400 xcel has my heart currently. Beautiful wood and silky smooth action, but $2300 is hard to swallow.

    Is there anything in the sub $1500 range that has good reliability and quality to match the beretta or is this a true buy once cry once situation?

    Edit:::

    I did handle some of the a400 extreme plus, and they werent as smooth, but have read some issues with them trying to cycle the lighter loads as reliably as the 3" chambered xcel
     
    For all around clays
    868 non silver pigeon for that price
    I’d consider an OU if you want to have fun. Also demo some guns before committing or get a deal on one used so you can recoup most your money if you don’t like it.
     
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    For all around clays
    868 non silver pigeon for that price
    I’d consider an OU if you want to have fun. Also demo some guns before committing or get a deal on one used so you can recoup most your money if you don’t like it.
    Good advice, one of the best guns in that budget. Almost everyone shoots an O/U better than an autoloader.
     
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    Qualifier, I don’t own a O/U yet and I’m not a great sheet shooter, although I have done it and like it. I’ve been fawning over O/U’s for over 5 years, but the money always ends up in rifles and optics, so I still don’t have one. The Browning O/U’S just don’t feel right to me, it’s a personal thing, but they have a solid reputation. In the lesser expensive category, I’ve really liked the Franchi’s I’ve picked up. Maybe someone here has some real experience with them?


    The one that feels the best to me is the Benneli 828U, but they just keep going up in price; I should have bought one 5 years ago……

    Good luck with your search. Try to shoot whatever you are interested in before you buy it.
     
    Shotguns are 100% about fit. You will shoot better with a $500 semi-auto that fits you, than a 10k O/U that doesn't, and visa versa. The advantage you get with expensive guns is of course build quality but a lot of times they include some options to help fit the gun to you. That's stock shims with semi-autos and adjustable combs and/or ribs with O/U. My advice to new shooters is try and shoot as many guns as you can before buying. Your initial impression is likely correct. I have been competing in some sort of clay shooting game for 27 years, and have been lucky enough to shoot an insane amount of guns. Obviously for the serious competitor, high end guns are amazing. But I always come back to Beretta semi-autos, and browning O/Us as high quality reliable shotguns for someone that is getting started or just wants to shoot occasionally. Don't worry about semi or O/U. Worry about what fits you and is comfortable to shoot. Recoil matters in shotgun sports just like precision rifle. Recoil mitigation comes with shotgun fit. Also, gas operated semi-autos will shoot softer that inertia.

    Enjoy another rabbit hole!
     
    Skeet is a type of clays shooting. Along with Trap, 5 Stand, Sporting Clays, FITASC, etc, etc.... and then variations on those.

    As the others have said fit is more important than the brand. Go to a National or State shoot with vendors and handle everything possible. There will be staff on hand that can give you an assessment of fit. Modern semi auto at a responsible price point have alot of flexibility with adjustable spacers, shims, ribs and combs.
     
    Shotguns are 100% about fit. You will shoot better with a $500 semi-auto that fits you, than a 10k O/U that doesn't, and visa versa.
    Good advice.

    I don't shoot much anymore but when I did I got a long well with my Ithaca SKB. Thought it was a good valued shotgun.

    And most important of all it fit like it belonged on my shoulder.

    For recoil with an O/U I used this and thought it helped.

    I shot trap so if you need both bbls, I think they can be put in the stock

    IMG_20250418_071734661.jpg

    IMG_20250418_071758274_HDR.jpg
     
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    @Jmccracken1214

    Proper fit is king in shotgun games, especially skeet. Some adjustability in the stock can be useful. It is worth the time and effort to have a coach help you fit the gun.

    I’ve shot skeet, trap, and 5 stand for years. I use a browning over-under. I toyed with a Beretta A300 for a couple seasons. It’s a fine gun; I just got tired of picking up hulls and being limited to one gauge.

    My skeet gun is a Browning with sub-gauge tubes. That way I shoot the same gun for all 4 gauges in registered skeet.

    The Beretta O/U guns are very good too.
     
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    I've been shooting clay target sports since the mid '90s, and have bird hunted since I was old enough to not get kicked on my ass by a single shot 20ga Stevens. I have a couple of Beretta shotguns, both 390s and 680 series O/U.

    My advice for someone just getting into the game of clay targets would be to find a used
    390 or 391 Sporting model with a 28" or 30" flat rib (with screw chokes).
    These guns have shims that are located where the stock meets the receiver and where the stock bolt tightens up against the stock.
    They can be adjusted for cast on/cast off and comb height by changing the shims.
    Beretta also makes 3 different recoil pad thicknesses to adjust length of pull.
    It enables the gun to be adjusted to fit you by swapping inexpensive parts.

    Properly maintained, you can not wear these guns out unless you shoot a LOT of targets.
    Once you decide that, yeah, I'm hooked in this sport, then go looking for a dedicated target O/U shotgun.

    Either gun can be easily picked up for less than a grand if you do a little looking around.
    What ever gun you choose, make sure you go somewhere where you can try a number of guns to see what fits and feels good.
    Talk to someone who know about shotgun fit. If it doesn't fit, it won't shoot where you point it.

    If you were in Texas, I would recommend going to the National Shooting Complex in San Antonio during a major event.
    Vender row will have multiple dealers and manufacturers with guns that can be demo'd.
    Maybe you have something similar near you
    Best of luck
     
    I personally highly recommend a Beretta 68x over/under. Yes, it will be more than your $1,500 budget (well, might find something used that's close) but it will last you a life time...literally. They are the Timex watches of O/U shotguns.

    Now, many do indeed like Brownings. For me, Brownings sit too high in the hand and I find the Beretta's to be more pointable (we point a shotgun, right...we don't aim them).

    As for gun fit...as a former registered skeet shooter (yeah, I competed for a very long time...which is NOT to say I was ever competitive! haha) I believe that I have a great deal of shotgun fitting experience and many adjustable features for fit that rifle chassis/stock makers are incorporating in recent years were extremely common on clay target guns for decades.

    IMO, unless you are the one person that Beretta (or fill in the brand name blank) made their stock fit then you need to make it fit.

    LOP can be adjusted by cutting the stock or using shorter/longer recoil pads.

    Adjustable combs for both up/down and left/right are pretty much required for proper fit.

    Also, many (including me) prefer a parallel comb vs the traditional drop at heel. A parallel comb (parallel to the bore) means that no matter where I put my face on the comb, my eye will be in the right place relative to the rib. Also, the comb won't be driven into my face on recoil. When shooting 400 targets in a skeet tournament (or 500 if you shoot doubles), comfort and reducing the effect of recoil gets to be pretty important.

    Adjustable butt pads....and particularly the ability to cant the toe outward...are not necessarily universal but are very common on skeet and trap guns and less so on sporting clay guns. Since we shoot shotguns offhand, and most men have a groove between their pectoral and their shoulder that slants down and out, kicking the toe out lets the pad fit your shoulder pocket properly while keeping the shotgun level to gravity. For woman, an adjustable pad let's them get the pad off their breast.

    Also with adjustable pads...for high gun games like skeet and trap...many people will find that lowering the pad is very helpful. We want the pad in our shoulder pocket and dropping the pad a bit brings the gun up to the face without having to crawl the stock. Pad adjustment to get the gun up (and therefore head is upright) and the comb vertical adjustment defines the relationship of the on eye (which is the rear sight) to the comb and this determines where the gun shoots in the vertical.

    Finally, pitch...which is the angle of the pad if you looked at it from the side. You want the pad to press evenly across your the contact area of your body and do NOT want the heel or the toe digging in both for comfort and to eliminate gun flip on recoil.

    So, like I tried to say...yeah, gun fit is VERY important in a shotgun but factory stocks do NOT properly fit most people and theses adjustable featres are the tried and true approach (aside from spending big $$ on a custom stock) to resolve this.

    For low gun...sporting clays and in particular upland bird hunting, I'd just put an adjustable comb on it and leave it as its actually pretty different than pre-mounted clay games.

    @DownhillFromHere - you were a much better skeet shooter than I...anything to correct or add?
     
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    Joel Etchins Beretta 687 Sporting ( https://www.joeletchenguns.com/ )


    A400 12GA Sporting w/ Mark Gay Monte Carlo stock ( https://highlandusa.com/ )

    I got the basic gun below from Cole Gun in Florida and then I had the high rib barrels put on it by Briley. Mark Gay of Highland USA made the stock for me. They also have MANY cost effective guns… (as opposed to my crazy gun).

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    There is a 2021 Snipers Hide thread that gets into top-tier shotguns. Here's my post to that thread; it gets into my personal experience and quite a few others chimed in as well. That may have been when @Baron23 and I got acquainted; we shot with some of the same world-class shooters. that thread is worth a look.

    A few thoughts.
    • First and foremost, DO NOT BUY AN OFF-THE-RACK FIELD GUN at your local gun store.
      • Field guns are intended to be carried. Competition guns are made to be shot.
      • Think of a PRS match versus casual shooting: it might be fun to crack off a dozen rounds of .30-06 out of an 8-pound hunting rifle... but would you want to shoot 100 rounds out of it in a match?
      • Field guns tend to be light. Light guns kick. The smaller the gauge, the lighter the gun, the more it kicks.
    • There is a saying: "There are two kinds of skeet shooters: those who flinch and those who will."
      • If your shotgun does not fit you correctly, recoil WILL cost you targets.
      • The standard stocks on top-tier brands (Krieghoff, Kolar) tend to distribute recoil most effectively. The good brands (Beretta) are ok; I had an adjustable comb added to my 687EELL which helped. The sporting goods store brands will usually just stomp your ass.
      • Recoil is cumulative. Even the best skeet gun MUST fit YOU properly; if it doesn't, you WILL flinch. And when you flinch, you'll eventually miss.
      • A good way way to have fit evaluated is to find a club that hosts registered shoots. One with any decent-sized membership will probably have at least a level-1 NSSA instructor.
      • I've been out of the game a long time, but "back in the day" Krieghoff, Kolar, and some of the big high-dollar gun distributors would host prospective buyers to try their wares.
    • Yes, the top-tier shotguns are expensive. But, unlike rifles whose barrels wear out like tires, a properly-maintained Beretta, Kolar, Krieghoff, Perazzi, etc. will last essentially forever. I had my Kolar evaluated by a nationally-known smith after about 50,000 rounds; he replaced the hammer springs. That was all it needed - rather, spring replacement was precautionary; the ejector springs were fine.
    Take a look at that SH post linked above. I may be wrong, but I doubt anything has changed a great deal wrt tournament shotguns in four years. Interestingly, while we've seen rifles evolve to some wild-looking chassis builds and optics have really come along way in 20 years, a fine walnut stock still sets the bar for shotguns.
     
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    I wouldn’t discount a nice used gun either. Lots of people buy a gun after they went once and never shoot again.
    I got a used 391 for like 5-600 bucks (a long time ago now) and it was fantastic, though I don’t shoot shotguns much anymore. Still handles really nicely though and has never given me an issue.
    Absolutely nothing wrong with a used gun as long as it is a brand know for being reliable and resilient.

    E.G., Beretta and similar, fine. CZ, not so much.

    Cheers
     
    Yeah, a used Kohler, Beretta, Browning, Benelli, Caesar Guarini, Kreighoff, will all be fine. (Unless they have 500,000 rounds on them and somehow have never been serviced… but then , all of those can be serviced relatively easily; browning might have a little more of a lag.)) They are fine purchase used so long as they don’t look like they’ve been treated roughly. Cesar Guerini comes with lifetime servicing… if you buy one of their guns, you just send it to their service department in Maryland, or driving over there.

    You should’ve seen the one gun that @Baron23 used to own because it makes my pretty gun look downright ugly.

    Honestly, the a 400 multi target is a pretty great option for an all-around gun.

    That said, the one poster above is definitely correct in that a field gun will be very different than a sporting gun. A great example of that is most sporting guns people never use the safeties. A lot of current field guns will actually turn the safety on automatically when you close the action, at least with over and unders.
     
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    Beretta for semis and browning for OU. The best shotgun is the one that fits you. I would say in general, semis aren’t a great choice since they tend to have reliability issues for the normal target loads. Sporting clays is the best shotgun event. It’s like PRS/NRL of shotguns. Trap is like bench rest shooting
     
    Absolutely nothing wrong with a used gun as long as it is a brand know for being reliable and resilient.

    E.G., Beretta and similar, fine. CZ, not so much.
    Used, well-maintained shotgun = value: definitely true. My wife's K-20 Gold Super Scroll 3-barrel set had been a safe queen for several years; it looked brand new but we paid several thousand dollars less than a new one would have cost.

    I know a guy who shoots a CZ regularly; e.g., 100-200 targets a week, and it's done ok, I think... but he had it tubed, and it was so front heavy as to be a deal-killer for most half-serious shooters.

    Somebody mentioned Franchi. If Franchi made a competition shotgun, I don't know about it. I do know a guy who bought a Franchi O/U field gun... the barrel shoulders on that thing galled so bad they looked like the grooves on an old 78RPM phonograph record. Shoulders had to be slathered in grease just to open&close.

    ...a field gun will be very different than a sporting gun. A great example of that is most sporting guns people never use the safeties. A lot of current field guns will actually turn the safety on automatically when you close the action, at least with over and unders.
    Excellent comment about safeties. In trap, skeet, or clays, one never puts a shell into the firearm until he/she is on station ready to shoot, so a safety is irrelevant. In NSSA skeet, if the shooter calls a target and the gun doesn't fire due to shooter error - safety set, wrong barrel selected, balk - target is scored lost. So, when my Kolar was new, I used its option to lock out the safety and barrel selector - they won't move even if you try to.
    -------------

    Wow, this thread brings back an avalanche of memories. I may have to go shoot a little skeet. A 4-inch orange target 20 yards away will look huge after engaging that size target at 15 times the distance...
     
    I've shot clays since HS, and I run 20+ bird dogs during quail season, so I've been around a myriad of options over the past 25 years. There are some fine semi's on the market these days for clays that have plenty of adjustability to fit most anyone. I'd give Beretta the edge in that category at the moment. In the O/U world, it's hard to beat the Beretta 68x/69x family for an entry into doubles. Like others have suggested, I would get to a large local shoot where vendors will have many options for you to play with if you're serious about it. I currently have Beretta and Rizzini doubles in my safe, but I've enjoyed some Browing's, Caesar Guerini's, CZ's, and a few Spanish SxS's in the past as well.
     


    May be hard to find or not available in the U.S. I know that Academy Sports is the importer for Yildiz. If starting out and wanting to try an over under- give these a look. I’ve read quite a few good comments about them. Clay shooting shotguns are like PRS rifles….always looking for that magic combination to pick up a few more hits 😆
     
    The responses so far are terrible. He asked for a sub $1.5K gun, and no one has answered him yet with a $15k gun!
    This is what you want:

    My advice is to look for a used Browning Citori. They never break, last forever, and are easy to shoot. The only drawback is that they're pretty heavy compaired to the high dollar shotguns.
     
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    He asked for a sub $1.5K gun, and no one has answered him yet with a $15k gun!
    What would you tell somebody who wanted to start shooting PRS with a $500 rifle, optic included?

    The only drawback is that they're [Browning Citori] pretty heavy compaired to the high dollar shotguns.
    Uhhh... I have never encountered a stock Browning of any sort - Superposed, the 'early-90s-vintage Citoris I owned, high-rib Citori Skeet variants I shot, a few of the "newer" (still pre-2015) Browning models - that weighed as much as, let alone more than, the myriad Kreighoff and Kolar SKEET guns I shot (clays guns are lighter).

    My 1997-vintage Kolar with its antique 28" barrels weighs over nine pounds without its subgauge tubes. Last I heard, 30-32" tubes were the kool kid choice in barrel length, pushing weight toward 10 pounds.
     
    When I was stationed at Bragg, I went to this gun store in Wagram, mid south guns or something similar, nabbed a Citori that was older than me but was barely shot if at all for like 600 bucks. the beauty of tihs place is the guy spent about 5 hours with my showing me everything from a 100 dollar shotgun to ones costing over 10k and explaining the pros and cons of each. I dont think Ive ever seen that level of old school business style anywhere else. Anyway, I sent the citori to briley and had tubes put in and it is still my go to gun 17 years later. These older guns also have a lot more steel on the stock, trigger guard, and other areas than the new ones. Dont be afraid of used. There is also this guy outside of pittsburgh joel etchen who has a huge inventory of new, used and his own spec shotguns.
     
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    What would you tell somebody who wanted to start shooting PRS with a $500 rifle, optic included?
    Well, I started with an off the rack 700 internal magazine with some cheap scope on it, and a wrist bandolier. I would say to go shoot and learn from the guys who can do it rather than from the internet. Everyone will let you get behind their gun and fingerbang everything.

    Hell the guy who let me shoot his Kreighoff at a chairity shoot won it, and was happy to let me shoot it afterward at a chip n’ break.

    Gun people usually don’t suck.
     
    My wife's K-20 Gold Super Scroll 3-barrel set
    Wow....about 25 years ago I was offered a used K-20 3-barrel set that was in pristine condition....but at the time I was competing at skeet with a K-80 and didn't have the interest in the K-20 type gun and price.

    I now own a K-20 with 30" Parcours barrels and I use it as a bird gun....love shooting south Georgia quail with that thing. The lightweight Parcours barrels absolutely make the difference and its very well balanced in that configuration.

    And yes, my Kolar was 10 lbs 4 oz....but it pointed like an 8.5 lb gun. Go figure....there is weight and then there are moments of inertia when swinging the sucker.

    Cheers
     
    The responses so far are terrible. He asked for a sub $1.5K gun, and no one has answered him yet with a $15k gun!
    This is what you want:

    My advice is to look for a used Browning Citori. They never break, last forever, and are easy to shoot. The only drawback is that they're pretty heavy compaired to the high dollar shotguns.

    Problem is that wholesale price on a browning Citori is 1500 to 2000 dollars minimum, and a 400 or a Benelli is gonna cost you at least $1800-$2000…

    I will disagree that purchasing a used Citori is necessarily a great idea unless you really know what to look for. The reason I say that is because they have a long lag time on repairs…
     
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    Well, I started with an off the rack 700 internal magazine with some cheap scope on it, and a wrist bandolier. I would say to go shoot and learn from the guys who can do it rather than from the internet. Everyone will let you get behind their gun and fingerbang everything.

    Hell the guy who let me shoot his Kreighoff at a chairity shoot won it, and was happy to let me shoot it afterward at a chip n’ break.

    Gun people usually don’t suck.
    We agree.

    Sigh. I did all the things I said not to do. At the end of it, I could have bought the Kolar or Krieghoff, especially a used one, for what I paid for the Citories and Beretta.

    Not everyone gets bitten by the competition bug like I did. I went from buying a pound of powder, a bag of shot, and 300 primers to buying shot 500 pounds at a time, primers by the 5k brick, and powder by the 8-pound jug (for 12, 20/28, and .410 each). That was when shot was $14 a bag (now it's ~$50) and it was $25 a gun to enter an NSSA shoot (and $7 of that was returned as purse). Now it's $50 per gun and as far as I know the purse is still the same, and the top-gun purses will still be won by the same handful of shooters (well, another generation of them).
    about 25 years ago I was offered a used K-20 3-barrel set that was in pristine condition....but at the time I was competing at skeet with a K-80 and didn't have the interest in the K-20 type gun and price.
    That K-20 weighed just over 7 1/2 pounds - easier for my wife to handle than a 12-gauge-framed gun (although it didn't take long for her to manage my Kolar without much effort). Its recoil was very well managed, much better than any other 20-gauge-frame O/U gun shot before or since.

    When we were shopping for her gun, she played with nearly a dozen different guns. She kept coming back the the K-20; she had no idea what it was. But when she saw the price tag hanging off the case, she jumped back like it was a snake. I had to convince her it was actually a pretty good deal ((let's just say it was under $20k; it had the solid-gold-target Krieghoff top tang whose gold content was probably worth nearly $1k... that thing was beautiful).

    The K-20 is long gone. My Kolar is still in its case under the bed - it got pushed out of the safe by the rifles, all of which are worth more than the Kolar is today.
     
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