Need UPS for FX120i

loveha · Monday at 1:00 PM

Have an FX120i that will randomly start drifting. Can charge five plus cases, then I'm .04gr over an empty cup all of a sudden. If I leave the cup on it, it will continue to rise another .02gr every thirty seconds or so. On and on it rises till I zero it out. If I zero the scale after placing the cup on the scale, I can leave it there for days and it will stay at 0. Have to keep an eye on the scale as I charge and I always place the cup empty back on the scale before the next charge to make sure. Although I know what the scale says when there is no cup, and generally I can tell when things are not right. I simply do not trust it. I have only loaded 40 rounds with it.

I have tried a grounding wire, drier sheets, how I place the cup, how I look at it, how I touch the bench. I charge and trickle manually. I can slam the gate on the dispenser pretty solidly and it doesn't effect the scale. I can lean on it as heavy as I want with no effect. Bench is heavy, on industrial rubber anti vibration feet. The light above is LED. My last ditch effort is a UPS that filters the power. The outlet at the bench is on it's own breaker.

For those that have fixed drifting with a sinewave UPS, what did you get? Trying to keep this below $100.

Picture of the bench, not that I think it's going to help with the situation. Who knows.

straightshooter1 · Monday at 1:50 PM

loveha said:
Have an FX120i that will randomly start drifting. Can charge five plus cases, then I'm .04gr over an empty cup all of a sudden. If I leave the cup on it, it will continue to rise another .02gr every thirty seconds or so. On and on it rises till I zero it out. If I zero the scale after placing the cup on the scale, I can leave it there for days and it will stay at 0. Have to keep an eye on the scale as I charge and I always place the cup empty back on the scale before the next charge to make sure. Although I know what the scale says when there is no cup, and generally I can tell when things are not right. I simply do not trust it. I have only loaded 40 rounds with it.

I have tried a grounding wire, drier sheets, how I place the cup, how I look at it, how I touch the bench. I charge and trickle manually. I can slam the gate on the dispenser pretty solidly and it doesn't effect the scale. I can lean on it as heavy as I want with no effect. Bench is heavy, on industrial rubber anti vibration feet. The light above is LED. My last ditch effort is a UPS that filters the power. The outlet at the bench is on it's own breaker.

For those that have fixed drifting with a sinewave UPS, what did you get? Trying to keep this below $100.

Picture of the bench, not that I think it's going to help with the situation. Who knows.
View attachment 8669573

What type of lighting are you using (LED, Fluorescents)?

How long to you leave the scale on before you start using it?

I find having my scale on a somewhat heavy piece of granite works well at keeping it stable and resisting vibrations as I load.

When I power up my 120i typically have to wait 1/2 hr. or so for it to "warm up" and stabilize. If I just turn it on and start weighing, I'll get the kind of issue you've described. When I happen to leave it on for a long time, it's then very stable with no drifting of any kind.

loveha · Monday at 2:01 PM

straightshooter1 said:
What type of lighting are you using (LED, Fluorescents)?

How long to you leave the scale on before you start using it?

I find having my scale on a somewhat heavy piece of granite works well at keeping it stable and resisting vibrations as I load.

When I power up my 120i typically have to wait 1/2 hr. or so for it to "warm up" and stabilize. If I just turn it on and start weighing, I'll get the kind of issue you've described. When I happen to leave it on for a long time, it's then very stable with no drifting of any kind.

LED

Never shut it off.

Unless I pound the table, it doesn't react. I may go to a counter top place see what they can do for me. Have a couple places around me.

I have tried a bounce drier sheet again just now wiping everything down, then draped it off the back stuck between the lid and the shield. Still no luck. Only thing I have done is made everything smell and feel like a drier sheet. Starting to wonder if I just have a bad scale. But I want to try a sinewave UPS first.

John Glidewell · Monday at 2:12 PM

Discussed in this thread. You are likely getting noise from the other electronics plugged in the outlet. I isolated mine and grounded it and all issues went away.

Ingenuity Powder System

That was in reference to my post and video about my A&D.. I didnt discuss Sartarius particulars with Paul because I dont have one. So maybe it is also 0.02gr, you'll have to check with him The MAIN reason people buy the Sartarius is because of its much faster response time vs a A&D Fx... 0.02...

www.snipershide.com

straightshooter1 · Monday at 2:42 PM

loveha said:
LED

Never shut it off.

Unless I pound the table, it doesn't react. I may go to a counter top place see what they can do for me. Have a couple places around me.

I have tried a bounce drier sheet again just now wiping everything down, then draped it off the back stuck between the lid and the shield. Still no luck. Only thing I have done is made everything smell and feel like a drier sheet. Starting to wonder if I just have a bad scale. But I want to try a sinewave UPS first.

And I assume you have no heating or air-conditioning going on and moving air around while doing this.

I've left my scale on for weeks, using it intermittently and had no drifting problems. The outlet my scale is plugged into also has a few other electronics plugged in (e.g. computer, monitors and printer and there's no apparent interference. However, if the outlet happens to also be on the same circuit as things like kitchen appliances. . . that can be an issue. As mentioned above, isolating the circuit can really help (assuming of course, there's really nothing wrong with your particular scale).

It'd be nice if you had a buddy that also had the same scale where you could run a test to see you have the same issue???

And yeah, It's just possible you have a unit that has something not working right.

BTW: I charge my cases the same way you do. . . a quick throw, with my Lee Powder Measure, and then trickle up on the scale with a Frankford Arsenal.

RegionRat · Monday at 2:55 PM

Just food for thought, but have you double checked the scale settings?
Try turning the auto-null off, or on, and see which mode works better for you.

As for your question, getting this unit or any of the other older powder scales/dispensers to run on battery isn't difficult.
If you noticed the voltage and current values of your transformer, you can match up a power cell and cable.
Many of us who load at the range or remote places have run on power packs without problems.
If trying those settings doesn't do the trick, then circle back and we will poke the web to find you an available power pack and cable.

loveha · Monday at 3:58 PM

It's on its own circuit breaker. Have tried turning all the lights off in the area. Removing both my phone and the tablet. No vents near me. I am next to the doors for the walkout basement, but just installed new last summer. Fairly airtight. I am suspecting it might have something to do with the blower motor for the hvac system. But testing is inconclusive on that one as of right now.

However, I did come across a video of someone messing with a "zero drift" setting. In the video, he turned it off. He didn't explain why he was doing what he was doing. I changed mine to setting 3 of very high because off didn't seem to fix my issue. Small sample size, but managed to load 15 cases with no issue. Dumping a couple random cases back into the cup to measure I was within .02gr. No idea what the setting does exactly but things seem stable for now. Will load more when I get out next weekend and shoot what I have for testing.

HemiPowrd · Monday at 5:09 PM

I have my zero drift set to 2 and it is very stable. 3 was too strong in my case.

loveha · Monday at 5:14 PM

HemiPowrd said:
I have my zero drift set to 2 and it is very stable. 3 was too strong in my case.

Do you know exactly what it is and how it works?

John Glidewell · Monday at 5:20 PM

HemiPowrd · Monday at 5:21 PM

loveha said:
Do you know exactly what it is and how it works?

Per the manual:

Zero tracking ( trc )
This function tracks zero point drift caused by changes in the environment and stabilizes the zero
point. When the weight data is only a few digits, turn the function off for accurate weighing.
Note
Digit, when used for the FX-i series balance, indicates a unit of minimum weighing value.

trc 0
trc 1
trc 2
trc 3

The tracking function is not used. Used for weighing a very light sample.
The tracking function is used. Normal zero tracking.
The tracking function is used. Strong zero tracking.
The tracking function is used. Very strong zero tracking.

RegionRat · Monday at 6:28 PM

loveha said:
Do you know exactly what it is and how it works?

There are electronic and software reasons for null (zero) drift in nearly all force scale sensor types.

So lets just assume transducers like these can and do drift for a moment without me going into a rabbit hole to explain why.

Given that the null can drift, there are logic algorithms running in the scale and one of them watches for the magnitude of the value to sense when or if the scale is near null. It will then start a time-based average and determine if the value changes, and depending on how much and how fast, it can basically re-null the value without the user taking action. (It doesn't always work, but under "normal" circumstances it does help.)

Keep in mind that "normal" drift changes are supposed to be slow, so these algorithms are not good at controlling abnormal noise problems. The different settings concept is face value, you can adjust the algorithm to be more or less, but within limits.

Allowing a proper warmup time before starting work, and keeping the temps and environment as stable as possible are also going to help prevent issues from working this function too hard and busting the math so to speak.

If you can't find a setting that works for you and you have paid attention to the temp, then we try the next steps in terms of cleaning up the EMI/RFI (Electromagnetic Interference/Radio Frequency Interference) issues and checking for ESD (static).

Circle back if you are still unhappy.

loveha · Monday at 7:03 PM

Thank you for the explanation. Makes sense, not just saying that. I honestly would have read your longer rabbit hole explanation.

So basically, as long as I put weight on the scale greater than near zero, which would be just about anything reloading wise. Should be no issue. It wont be interpreted as drift. Is that what I gather from that?

RegionRat · Monday at 7:44 PM

Affirmative.

The science labs will leave samples to dry out, and sometimes the changes are tiny so they don't mess with anything beyond the null in typical scales.

I'm mildly dyslexic and struggle to write in general, and having been an engineer and scientist it takes effort to keep the language clear.

shoot4fun · Monday at 7:52 PM

loveha said:
Have an FX120i that will randomly start drifting. Can charge five plus cases, then I'm .04gr over an empty cup all of a sudden. If I leave the cup on it, it will continue to rise another .02gr every thirty seconds or so. On and on it rises till I zero it out. If I zero the scale after placing the cup on the scale, I can leave it there for days and it will stay at 0. Have to keep an eye on the scale as I charge and I always place the cup empty back on the scale before the next charge to make sure. Although I know what the scale says when there is no cup, and generally I can tell when things are not right. I simply do not trust it. I have only loaded 40 rounds with it.

I have tried a grounding wire, drier sheets, how I place the cup, how I look at it, how I touch the bench. I charge and trickle manually. I can slam the gate on the dispenser pretty solidly and it doesn't effect the scale. I can lean on it as heavy as I want with no effect. Bench is heavy, on industrial rubber anti vibration feet. The light above is LED. My last ditch effort is a UPS that filters the power. The outlet at the bench is on it's own breaker.

For those that have fixed drifting with a sinewave UPS, what did you get? Trying to keep this below $100.

Picture of the bench, not that I think it's going to help with the situation. Who knows.
View attachment 8669573

This will fix all/any electrical interference issue.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B28QR2GZ?ref=nb_sb_ss_w_as-reorder_k0_1_8&=&crid=1KILKPSMXH0CD&sprefix=gensrock&th=1

ShtrRdy · Monday at 9:37 PM

Have you verified the bubble level is as centered as possible?

DownhillFromHere · Tuesday at 10:25 AM

How about moving the scale to another breaker circuit, or even move it to a friend's house, to see if plugging it into a different outlet makes any difference?

Also, have you tried recalibrating it with a known check weight?

Someone mentioned the bubble level. I have to level my scale every single time I start a new loading session - even though the scale doesn't move on its bench, the bubble will actually move very slightly when I sit down, then stabilizes. Even slight movements of that bubble manifest as .02 - .06 grains of shift.
------
If your scale's behavior remains inconsistent after recalibration and trying different power sources, I have to think there's something wrong with it. I say this because mine, kept absolutely level per its on-board bubble, is rock-solid-steady wrt drift. It's plugged into a cheap power strip and there's a 1960s-vintage fluorescent-tube lamp hovering two feet from it, plugged into same circuit.

I keep a little tag taped to the scale with last recalibration date (I bought a 100-gram class-1 check weight when I bought the scale). Last recal date was in late 2022. A couple of days ago, I got repeated "Error 0" (internal error) messages when I turned it on. This can happen if several kernels of powder get underneath the bottom tray, but this time the scale was clean. So I did the full recalibration routine, and the scale returned to its rock-steady self. Yay.
-------
Good luck.

straightshooter1 · Tuesday at 12:56 PM

DownhillFromHere said:
How about moving the scale to another breaker circuit, or even move it to a friend's house, to see if plugging it into a different outlet makes any difference?

Also, have you tried recalibrating it with a known check weight?

Someone mentioned the bubble level. I have to level my scale every single time I start a new loading session - even though the scale doesn't move on its bench, the bubble will actually move very slightly when I sit down, then stabilizes. Even slight movements of that bubble manifest as .02 - .06 grains of shift.
------
If your scale's behavior remains inconsistent after recalibration and trying different power sources, I have to think there's something wrong with it. I say this because mine, kept absolutely level per its on-board bubble, is rock-solid-steady wrt drift. It's plugged into a cheap power strip and there's a 1960s-vintage fluorescent-tube lamp hovering two feet from it, plugged into same circuit.

I keep a little tag taped to the scale with last recalibration date (I bought a 100-gram class-1 check weight when I bought the scale). Last recal date was in late 2022. A couple of days ago, I got repeated "Error 0" (internal error) messages when I turned it on. This can happen if several kernels of powder get underneath the bottom tray, but this time the scale was clean. So I did the full recalibration routine, and the scale returned to its rock-steady self. Yay.
-------
Good luck.

I often use a 100 gram check weight before starting my powder charging session, just to be sure calibration is where it should be that I'm getting the same measurement from one session to the next. But that doesn't seem to have any relation to the issue of drifting during a session. . . ???

DownhillFromHere · Tuesday at 1:40 PM

straightshooter1 said:
I often use a 100 gram check weight before starting my powder charging session, just to be sure calibration is where it should be that I'm getting the same measurement from one session to the next. But that doesn't seem to have any relation to the issue of drifting during a session. . . ???

Putting a 100-gram weight on the scale and seeing "100" is not calibrating it. See pages 30-31 of the manual for the external-weight calibration procedure.

I'm not saying calibration should/would have any effect on drifting - it probably shouldn't - but to me it's a reasonable step to take.

straightshooter1 · Tuesday at 2:01 PM

DownhillFromHere said:
Putting a 100-gram weight on the scale and seeing "100" is not calibrating it. See pages 30-31 of the manual for the external-weight calibration procedure.

I'm not saying calibration should/would have any effect on drifting - it probably shouldn't - but to me it's a reasonable step to take.
View attachment 8670357

You're right about just putting the weight on the scale and I guess I should have been more clear how I was using the check weight. Because that calibration procedure is so simple, that's what I do verily often for the reason I stated.

Maybe that's one of the things that keeps mine from drifting.

Doom · 2025-04-23T09:44:07-0400

Zero drift is a function primarily associated with the temperature of the electronics in the scale/balance. It comes from two sources, the initial powering up of the electronics when the scale is turned on and changes in ambient temperature. It is important to remember that the drift is not detectable below the resolution of the display. In the days before digital scales common practice was to zero the scale before every item weighing. The only time it is not advisable to use the auto zeroing function is when trying to trickle very small charges from 0 grains (or other units) as the scales lock for small deviations and slow change around that zero. The zeroing function is independent of calibration. Rezeroing a scale does not require re-calibration. However, the scale should be recalibrated prior to each use.

Digital scales are not overly sensitive to power source noise and when they are affected it normally displays as erratic readings not a bias in any one direction. Cell phones, CFL and shop lighting is not a likely source of issues. In the case of force balance scales they can be affected if the source is very close to the scale, particularly if the pan or material is magnetic.

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