.300 PRC vs .338 LM for 1500-2500 yards

hondarider2289

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Feb 17, 2018
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Looking to have a new gun built for ELR shooting, I've been shooting up to 1000 yards for a few years now and recently shot out to a mile with a 6.5 creedmoor. Going to start shoot more at 1500+ now and I'm stuck between the .300PRC, and the .338 Lapua Mag.

Pros of the .338:
Brass life and quality available is far better than the PRC
Barrel life is about double that of the PRC, I've heard 2500 rounds or so
More energy on target to spot misses/hits

Cons of the .338:
Cost of reloading components is $0.37 more than PRC
Recoil will be higher
Lower velocity


Pros of the .300 PRC:
Higher velocity's and less drop than the .338
Less recoil/muzzle blast
Cheaper to shoot

Cons of the .300 PRC
Barrel life seems to be in the 1200 round range
Brass is terrible at the moment
Less energy on target

Rifle build will be on a custom action, probably a Defiance, right around a 30" bartlein, MDT or XLR chassis. Use will be to bang steel from 500 out to 2500 with most of the shooting being done at around a mile.

If you had your choice which would you go with?
What kind of barrel life are you seeing out of these calibers?
Any other calibers you would consider?
 
I went with both calibers.

The farthest I've shot either is 2400 and they were comparable in performance. I hope you are wrong about the barrel life on the PRC. Many people only get 1500-2000 out of the 338LM. Cost certainly is a factor on the ammo end but probably not a total deal breaker unless you shoot factory ammo. The brass will work itself out I'm sure. Either way, you'll have a blast.
 
I was looking at the 338LM vs the 300NM last year...and ended up going with the 300PRC. With real life and work getting in the way, I'm no where near 1200 rounds...so I have no idea what the barrel life will be. I'm sub 300 rounds atm. I'm shooting 230gr A-Tips...and they hit pretty hard on target.
 
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Why not a 30 Nosler? Here's my 30 Nosler, after hitting a 1-moa target at 1-mile with one shot. Bonus target at the end of the match, and I did it again a month later (ELR match in Raton NM).

I had the same rifle built previously as configured in the picture in 338LM, and now wish I didn't go with the 338LM on that build (and not my first 338LM either).

Looking at the ballistics, my 30 Nosler shooting the Berger Target Hybrid 230's, will go another 120-yards before going transonic comparing it to the 338LM using the Berger 300's.

as far as barrel life, I'm yet to experience that. I will say that about 10-years ago, I was talking with a Sako rep about the TRG's. We got on the topic of barrel life (TRG-42/338LM). He told me the Finnish Defense Forces change the barrels out at 3K rounds, regardless if it's still shooting sub-moa. He told me they don't often have to change a barrel out below the 3K mark.

My Rifle Spec;

Defiance Rebel
Bartlein HV 5R 9-twist @28"
XTSP Mod 22
McMillan A5
Badger M5
Near Alpha Mount
SB 5-25 MSR
TB Ultra Brake
Beanland built.

IMG_20190504_090725714.jpg
 
I went with both calibers.

The farthest I've shot either is 2400 and they were comparable in performance. I hope you are wrong about the barrel life on the PRC. Many people only get 1500-2000 out of the 338LM. Cost certainly is a factor on the ammo end but probably not a total deal breaker unless you shoot factory ammo. The brass will work itself out I'm sure. Either way, you'll have a blast.

I think buying ammo or reloading to include barrel replacement on a PRC at 375.00 per barrel is less expensive than ammo alone for the 338. But I think its difficult to compare these two different calibers because they are different categories.
 
I'll agree with you on that. Even though Nosler offers ammo, the Hornady Marketing Dept is so much superior to Nosler.

I was going to go with the 30-375RM (Basically the 300-PRC) before either the Nosler or PRC came out, then got to thinking about creating my own Wildcat, was close when the 30 Nosler rolled out, and I said that's almost exactly what I'm looking for. More efficient cartridge than the 30-375 or PRC, longer neck, slightly shorter case, so I jumped on the 30 Nosler. And the bonus now is, there are four different manufacturers making the brass.
 
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For most target shooting, "energy on target" is not important, just that there is enough energy left to make a recordable / observable impact on the target.

A lot is going to depend on your projectiles and speed. A .338LM shooting 250gr factory loads has very different long range ballistics over shooting hand loaded heavy VLD bullets or special VLD solids.

In the 1500 yard range the .300 PRC is a nice choice for a lot of folks.
Now if you want to go to the 2500 yard range, you may want to start looking at .300 Norma or a .338LM case necked down to .30 cal.

The .338LM will also do just about everything the others will do and maybe more depending on your loads, projectiles and barrels, but probably at more cost / recoil.
 
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I think buying ammo or reloading to include barrel replacement on a PRC at 375.00 per barrel is less expensive than ammo alone for the 338. But I think its difficult to compare these two different calibers because they are different categories.

375 doesn't include the gunsmithing costs though unless maybe you use a green mountain blank
 
Pros of the .300 PRC:
Higher velocity's and less drop than the .338
Less recoil/muzzle blast
Cheaper to shoot

I would add that you have access to a lot more bullets. 30 cal has a ton of choices.

Cons of the .300 PRC
Barrel life seems to be in the 1200 round range
Brass is terrible at the moment
Less energy on target

On the barrel life, 1200 is EXTREMELY low. If you're pushing bullet well north of 3000 fps, then sure, but you can shoot the heavier bullets and be more in the mid to upper 2800s, which will give you a lot more than 1200 rounds of life. I'm pushing Berger 230s at 2850 or so, which is similar to what I was pushing 200 hybrids when it was chambered as a 300 WM. I got a lot more life than 1200.

On the brass, I'm fire forming 8x68S and it is working well. I have two videos on how to do it - it's easy, and you can get good quality (both RWS and Norma).

I don't have a 338, so can't compare. I can say that I love my 300 PRC - enough so, that I'm getting a new custom one built. It is similar to what you have in mind: Deviant action, 28" Bartlein (1:9, M24 contour)
 
338 LM is hard to beat and time tested and component choices are like a Denny's buffet. Past a mile, it's really hard to get the little guys to perform. On paper it looks great, in practice it's hard. Seeing splash, wind drift, all sorts of things just make it harder with sub 338s past a mile.
 
Here is a different perspective. Comparing all those rounds with all the bullets out there, they all perform relatively close. I have owned and shot out to a mile with several.30 cals, 300 win mag, 308 Warbird, 300 Weatherby and I currently own a 338 Laupa. You know what the difference is once you start reloading, a quarter of a turn on most high-end scopes. Why do I like the 338 the best? Almost 40 percent more energy and a bigger bullet usually makes a bigger whole.

The two rounds i load from the 338 Lapua are 250 Bergers at 3100FPS. (This is the actual average with a five-shot sd of 4 on a Magnetto speed) and 285 match at 2808fps. The 250 shoot flatter than my 285's.
 
250 Grain A-Tips....anyone got a good load worked up? Midway is showing the A-Tips in stock....and Powder Valley is showing RL-33 in stock...I was thinking of giving this a try...but in a 28" 1-9 twist Bartlein....It may not work out that well for me. 900ft elevation. What do you guys think?
 
250 Grain A-Tips....anyone got a good load worked up? Midway is showing the A-Tips in stock....and Powder Valley is showing RL-33 in stock...I was thinking of giving this a try...but in a 28" 1-9 twist Bartlein....It may not work out that well for me. 900ft elevation. What do you guys think?
I know the 230s are withen reason, but the 250s are definitely a experiment. I plan to give them a go eventually.
 
Consider refining what you're wanting to do before making the decision. 1500+ is still a pretty broad range when all run supersonic at a mile. The more you think you'll spend at 1800+ the more I'd personally lean toward 338LM, or 300NM. But if you're going spend most of your time <2000 the 300PRC is very effective from a performance / versatility / cost standpoint. As for the 1200 round barrel life on the PRC, I'd have to let you know in the spring. The NM is a known barrel burner and has some finicky tendencies reloading due to case capacity vs. charge weight. As for PRC brass offering, that will likely resolve in 2020.
 
Consider refining what you're wanting to do before making the decision. 1500+ is still a pretty broad range when all run supersonic at a mile. The more you think you'll spend at 1800+ the more I'd personally lean toward 338LM, or 300NM. But if you're going spend most of your time <2000 the 300PRC is very effective from a performance / versatility / cost standpoint. As for the 1200 round barrel life on the PRC, I'd have to let you know in the spring. The NM is a known barrel burner and has some finicky tendencies reloading due to case capacity vs. charge weight. As for PRC brass offering, that will likely resolve in 2020.


Honestly I would probably use my creedmoor for almost everything inside of 1000 which is all one of my local ranges goes to, except to shoot the magnum for shits and giggles. My other local range goes to a mile at the moment but should have 2000-2500 in 100 yard increments and that's where I'm building the magnum for.
 
I've also been considering using a Ruger precision rifle instead of a custom build. Honestly for $1500 as much as I would actually use it, that seems like a screaming deal, and I currently shoot a RPR 6.5 creed with a aftermarket barrel that I'm super impressed with. I've also been eyeing the Badrock South Fork in .300PRC pretty heavily.
 
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RCC brass is offered for 300 PRC and its best brass you can buy. Better than Lapua brass. It’s machined brass and holds pressure much better than anything else. RCC brass primer pocket still tight after 20 firings. As i said makes Lapua brass look like Micky Mouse shit. Be ready to pay for it but well worth every $$$.
 
Is it possible to use a rifle chambered in 300 PRC (9 twist, 26-28” tube) to safely launch the 230 Berger at 3,000 feet per second, assuming a D/A of ~5000 feet?

If so, when plugging numbers into Shooter for the .338 lapua magnum (300 otm Berger at 2750 feet/sec) and the above mentioned PRC load, Shooter tells me the PRC goes subsonic at 2150 while the Lap Mag goes subsonic at 2100...energy is 859 lbs for the Lapua while the PRC load has 651 lbs. Lapua mag goes subsonic at 2200 if muzzle velocity is 2850; energy is 863.

Similar performance; 338 lapua has the energy advantage but not a huge disparity.

Assuming one can get 3000 ft/sec from the PRC while considering the marginal cost of shooting the .338 along with trade offs above are valid in terms of my numbers, I’m thinking the PRC may offer the best overall value.
 
338 LM AI is a game changer to your 300 PRC and it will shoot factory 338 LM accurately. If your looking for cheap factory ammo stick w the 300 PRC. How are your SD/ES numbers w Hornady ammo?
 
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@LakuNoc You’re bragging about a brass that’s going to cost $3.50+ more per piece. Relax there sweetheart. We know it’s quality stuff. S*, it better be!

$3.73 more, when it comes to Lapua 300NM brass.
Hey @AIAW , didn’t you get sub 10 ES on your 300NM with Lapua brass out the box? ???

Exactly. That price is just unrealistic for high round count shooters. If one has to spend that much on brass to get what they need or want then they need to look into a different caliber/chambering. Benchrest - go for it.

Like an ES of 9 on the first firing. ES of 6 after that. Single digits and it groups - load development done! Lapua has been holding true for quite a few firings now pushing 225 ELD-M’s at 3006 fps. I have a higher node at 3105 fps but with a mild bolt lift and semi-flat primers... Not worth the barrel torture.
 
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@LakuNoc You’re bragging about a brass that’s going to cost $3.50+ more per piece. Relax there sweetheart. We know it’s quality stuff. S*, it better be!

$3.73 more, when it comes to Lapua 300NM brass.
Hey @AIAW , didn’t you get sub 10 ES on your 300NM with Lapua brass out the box? ???
If you want best you will have to pay $$ for that. Thats RCC brass with H1000 and 230gr A-Tip.
Hornady brass being only other available brass for 300 PRC now after 4th firings primer are falling out. I don’t mind paying extra for quality.
 

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@LakuNoc Dude, This whole "want the best you will have to pay $$ for that", is an old tune. You now bring up Hornady brass, yet you bashed Lapua, thus why I added 300NM Lapua prices.

And you need to practice what you preach homie. I highly doubt the Mausinfield on a KRG and HARRIS bipod close to the BEST... But, that's none of my business..

is that a Savage action as your avatar pic btw? ;)
 
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Exactly. That price is just unrealistic for high round count shooters. If one has to spend that much on brass to get what they need or want then they need to look into a different caliber/chambering. Benchrest - go for it.

Like an ES of 9 on the first firing. ES of 6 after that. Single digits and it groups - load development done! Lapua has been holding true for quite a few firings now pushing 225 ELD-M’s at 3006 fps. I have a higher node at 3105 fps but with a mild bolt lift and semi-flat primers... Not worth the barrel torture.

Ima go be a peasant elsewhere with this NM brass

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Is it possible to use a rifle chambered in 300 PRC (9 twist, 26-28” tube) to safely launch the 230 Berger at 3,000 feet per second, assuming a D/A of ~5000 feet?

I'd think you could get close to 3000 fps with handloads. Below are the first 140 rounds through my 300 PRC so the barrel still might speed up a bit. All are factory Hornady 225 grain ELD-M and were shot across 3 days. I used a Kestrel to get the ambient temperature data but the ammo temperature estimates are an educated guess. Day 3 was 60 rounds as a cold front was moving in, thus the ammo temp drops.

300 PRC MV.png


300 PRC MV Sum.png
 
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RCC brass is offered for 300 PRC and its best brass you can buy. Better than Lapua brass. It’s machined brass and holds pressure much better than anything else. RCC brass primer pocket still tight after 20 firings. As i said makes Lapua brass look like Micky Mouse shit. Be ready to pay for it but well worth every $$$.
Meh
Just some quick loads thrown together on a Chargemaster 1500 in Alpha brass. RCC gonna net me any improvements here, @LakuNoc ?
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@LakuNoc Dude, This whole "want the best you will have to pay $$ for that", is an old tune. You now bring up Hornady brass, yet you bashed Lapua, thus why I added 300NM Lapua prices.

And you need to practice what you preach homie. I highly doubt the Mausinfield on a KRG and HARRIS bipod is FAR from the BEST... But, that's none of my business..

is that a Savage action as your avatar pic btw? ;)
Mausingfiel action
KRG whiskey 3 chassis
TT Gen 3 scope
Proof barrel
But if you have better more power to you, not sure what you consider best. As i stated above RCC is best brass on market for 300 PRC.
By the way I’m not you homie ? lol
 
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Mausingfiel action
KRG whiskey 3 chassis
TT Gen 3 scope
Proof barrel
But if you have better more power to you, not sure what you consider best. As i stated above RCC is best brass on market for 300 PRC.
By the way I’m not you homie ? lol

Lol @ this rattttard
 
This turned from a nice discussion to a look at my pee pee contest.
Sorry man. I just have a great disdain for nut swingers, and this guy has been swinging from RCC's nuts on multiple threads.
We get it. They make expensive brass the expensive way. I would wager a paycheque he can't shoot well enough to observe any discernible difference down range.
 
Meh Just some quick loads thrown together on a Chargemaster 1500 in Alpha brass. RCC gonna net me any improvements here, @LakuNoc ?

I can't find Alpha brass for 338LM nor 300 PRC so although your data look good, I don't see how they apply to this thread. So I'm not LakuNoc, buying RCC did allow him to avoid Hornady brass for his 300PRC.
 
I was in the same boat for the last 8 months. I settled on the PRC and am happy with my choice. It's a better value and performance is very good compared to the LM. To me the benefits were greater than the detriments. I do not agree with the barrel life post. I would bet money that 2k is probably where the accuracy will start to degrade. Most other standard 30 Cal. Mags can last that long with standard velocities. The 300 Norma 300 RUM and 30 nosler will be barrel burners. The PRC is in my opinion the better designed round for repeatability and accuracy. It's just a more efficient cartridge. It isn't going to break any velocity records........but I didn't buy mine for that purpose. If you plan to exclusively shoot 2500+ yards the .338 is probably your cat. Sticking around the mile and a quarter mark and under, I'd stay with a 30 Cal.
 
I'd think you could get close to 3000 fps with handloads. Below are the first 140 rounds through my 300 PRC so the barrel still might speed up a bit. All are factory Hornady 225 grain ELD-M and were shot across

View attachment 7192155

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Good information, @TripleBull. Thank you for the data...

Assuming a 3-5% drop off in MV for the 230’s extra 5 grains and another 50-75 FPS reduction if a 26” barrel is used vs a 30” (I prefer barrel lengths on all my rifles at most 26” at most for personal preference reasons) thinking the PRC’s realistic velocity expectation for me is prob somewhere between 2800-2850ish....at that velocity, Shooter has it going subsonic at 2000 yards...

With a 30” tube, which would be the correct barrel length choice for the OP’s use case, one would still have to get those 230s really moving out of a PRC chamber to hit 3000k safely. Still a good performer with potential to make consistent hits at or slightly beyond 2k but prob runs out of enough steam to make performance at 2500 questionable.

Outside the scope of the original question but if someone wanted a ballistically predictable round that can consistently hit targets between 2000-2500+, something like a 338 Edge/ AI or a chamber in the 375+ class should be selected vs 300 PRC or 338 LM (375 Cheyenne Tac comes to mind).
 
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Good information, @TripleBull. Thank you for the data...

Assuming a 3-5% drop off in MV for the 230’s extra 5 grains and another 50-75 FPS reduction if a 26” barrel is used vs a 30” (I prefer barrel lengths on all my rifles at most 26” at most for personal preference reasons) thinking the PRC’s realistic velocity expectation for me is prob somewhere between 2800-2850ish....at that velocity, Shooter has it going subsonic at 2000 yards...

I was partly basing on data posted here:


So LakuNoc's getting ~2940 with the 230 A-Tip and reports no pressure signs. IIRC, he's shooting a 26" Proof barrel. Then again he's using RCC brass and probably sold his soul to the devil.

B2lee is running 230 ATips at over 3K out of a 28" Bartlein.

Anyway, I'd think you'll be in the 2900-3K range depending in part how hard you're willing to push your luck. I'd rather not push mine so I lug around that heavy, long barrel. I'd really like to someday have a 416B with a 40" barrel but then I'd need an assistant to get it over to the shooting mat.

230 grain A-Tip BC G7= .414

225 grain ELD-M BC G7= .391

Off topic but I just noticed the 300 grain 338LM A-Tips are now listed on Hornady's site but no BC is given yet.
 
I was partly basing on data posted here:


So LakuNoc's getting ~2940 with the 230 A-Tip and reports no pressure signs. IIRC, he's shooting a 26" Proof barrel. Then again he's using RCC brass and probably sold his soul to the devil.

B2lee is running 230 ATips at over 3K out of a 28" Bartlein.

Anyway, I'd think you'll be in the 2900-3K range depending in part how hard you're willing to push your luck. I'd rather not push mine so I lug around that heavy, long barrel. I'd really like to someday have a 416B with a 40" barrel but then I'd need an assistant to get it over to the shooting mat.

230 grain A-Tip BC G7= .414

225 grain ELD-M BC G7= .391

Off topic but I just noticed the 300 grain 338LM A-Tips are now listed on Hornady's site but no BC is given yet.

I don’t push my luck either and stop increasing the charge weight as soon as I notice .001 case body expansion (I measure the body just above the extractor grove of the unfired and again after the case is fired).

You can always put wheels on that Barrett, lol. The 416 is a wicked round.
 
I can't find Alpha brass for 338LM nor 300 PRC so although your data look good, I don't see how they apply to this thread. So I'm not LakuNoc, buying RCC did allow him to avoid Hornady brass for his 300PRC.
RCC DOES make brass for what I’m shooting with this Alpha though. So what exactly do I have to gain here by switching?
I forgot to mention, all those chronograph readings are after multiple firings and multiple salt bath annealings.
Edit. Don’t answer that. I’m done. What others spend their money on doesn’t affect me in the slightest. How they try and justify it to others can be bothersome, but really not worth the energy expended to argue.
 
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RCC DOES make brass for what I’m shooting with this Alpha though. So what exactly do I have to gain here by switching?
I forgot to mention, all those chronograph readings are after multiple firings and multiple salt bath annealings.
Edit. Don’t answer that. I’m done. What others spend their money on doesn’t affect me in the slightest. How they try and justify it to others can be bothersome, but really not worth the energy expended to argue.

Are you really missing the point? 300 PRC shooters don't have many options and Hornady is one of the least respected brass makers for precision reloaders. I'm not advising you to abandon Alpha for RCC. I own no RCC brass.

Glad you're done since you have no realistic argument for this thread.
 
With the A-TIPS 300 PRC outperforms 338LM.

Just like we saw up until few years ago the in 6.5mm standard sized cartridge space there is competition in the long action magnum cartridge space right now. 6.5 Creedmoor won that war which is excellent for those that shoot 6.5cm because there's more people using it which means more rifle's chambered in it more ammo for it and reloading components for it and all at lower prices due to economies of scale. Right now in the magnum cartridge space we're about where we were in 2015 in the 6.5mm cartridge space.

You have to look at your options today and to look to future at how things are going to play 5, 10, 20 years from now. IMO 300 PRC is going to win this fight it's going to be the prevalent long action cartridge in the future and anybody shooting 300NM or 338LM will be a rare oddity just like anyone shooting 260 Rem or 6.5x47 rather than 6.5cm is now.

I think the absolute K.O. blows on why 300 PRC will win out against 338lm, 300NM or other competitor are because;

#1. 300 PRC factory Hornady match ammo can be had for $1.62/round online compare that to $3.75/round online for 300NM or 338LM and it's no contest. You have to remember that most shooters don't reload so when they see the price of 300 PRC ammo being only 43% of it's competitors they're not going to look twice at the other calibers. 300 PRC is such a new caliber that most people don't know about yet but when the masses realize that they can get 338LM or 300NM performance at a very affordable price alot of people who have always wanted an ELR magnum but have been put off due the costs will jump into the water with 300 PRC.

Link; Hornady 225gr ELD 300PRC ammo for $1.62/round at Classic Firearms

# 2. The DOD has just officially adopted 300 PRC and ordered their ASR Barret MRAD's in 300 PRC. We all know we know what wide spread military adoption can do for a caliber and 300 PRC has just recieved it outperforming 300NM, and 338NM in the process. Just more nails in the coffin.

https://www.tactical-life.com/news/department-of-defense-hornady-300-prc/

#3. 300 PRC outperforms 338LM.

Here's ballistics for a 24" barrel 338LM with 300gr Berger VLD's using posted velocities from Nosler for 300gr bullets with 24" barrels at 2750 fps. If any 338LM guys are going to be upset by this comparison take note that I could have used Berger's posted load data but that's only 2700 FPS from a 26" so I'm using Nosler's.

The 300 PRC is also from a 24" barrel and velocities are Hornady's posted load data using 230gr A-TIP's at 2850 FPS. To keep things fair I'm using posted load data from major manufacturers on both not any individuals claimed numbers.

Both are ran at 5000 ft/alt

Note that 300NM is about 50-70 FPS faster than 300 PRC and that's something but it aint much in the grand scheme of things. Then you consider that 300NM is more expensive to load for and it doesn't have affordable bass cased ammo. I know 300NM guys are playing up the Lapua brass which 300 PRC doesn't have but you have to look to the future Lapua will get forced into 300 PRC just like they were forced into 6.5 Creedmoor. If you want to make money selling brass then you've got to sell brass in popular calibers and 300 PRC will soon be more popular than 300NM if it isn't already.

338LM top
300 PRC bottom.


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The 300 PRC has less drop, less wind drift, slightly more supersonic range and 338LM's energy advantage at ELR ranges is not much the difference in spotting shot here is probably more or less a wash. Also this was using 230gr ATIPS rather than the 250gr ATIPS because Hornady's posted load data for the 250's tops out at 2700 FPS which seems strange to me that they 2850 FPS for the 230's but only 2700 FPS for the 250's. It's also good data point to note that the 230gr ATIPS $0.10/ea cheaper than the 300gr VLD's.

I remember a few years ago when 6.5x47 and 260 rem guys would tell you that 6.5cm sucked because at the time 6.5cm didn't have any Lapua brass and how'd that arguement play out long term? Of course 6.5cm dominated market share because it had affordable ammo when the others didn't and Lapua went into the 6.5cm market because they want to make money. Brass just isn't an arguement you can bank on long term.

Note post edited to include load data from manufacturers since it was suggested that I had "optimistically fudged the numbers in favor of my favorite" although no explanation of how was given.

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Notice that Berger's load data for the 338LM gives a max velocity of 2700fps for the 300gr VLD but this is with a 26" barrel (Hornady's load data is for a 24" barrel) this could be because the 300gr VLD is longer than Nosler's 300gr bullets and thus leaves less room in the case for powder. I actually used Nosler's 2750 fps for 300gr pills in 3338LM on the charts in the comparisons above to give 338LM the best velocity possible based on actual manufacturerers load data for both cartridges and not considering any individuals claimed velocities. Thus note that with 338LM this comparison is made are using one manufacturer who makes a higher BC bullet and a different manufacture who posts the highest velocity but with a different bullet.
 
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I would still take the 338 over the 300 for this distance because of the bullet splash. 195s at 3200 are impressive on paper too but that doesn't help when you can't spot your misses. When good brass isn't available yet, it's still an important factor. The creedmoor took how many years before lapua was available? You can probably shoot out several barrels before it's available so it is a consideration.