Rifle Scopes Clash of the high-end LPVO's: Stretching to longer distance...

Bakwa · Aug 3, 2021

Yes, I'm going to beat this topic to death.

What top end scope would you choose for 60% standard close AR stuff, but then 40% of the time reaching from 300m-800m?
Used for DMR/long range tactical comps.
Eye relief and eye box are important. We're talking odd shooting positions.
It will probably be paired with an offset RD.

All of my dope is in mils so the reticle should be a mil reticle capable of elevation holds to about 10 mils.

My thoughts:
Please correct and/or advise:
I can get a stupid good deal on the M8Xi; is that one worth the weight? I like the clean but usable DMR reticle in it and all other Steiners I've used have had excellent eye box and eye relief.
Everyone rides the Razor train. To me it seems like it sacrifices a good bit to have a 10x variable. Top end distortion, FOV, etc...? The MRAD reticle is nice though.
Haven't gotten behind either of the NF LPVO's in the field. My previous experiences with other NF's push me into being very hesitant about the eye relief and eye box.
March's lacking eye relief and eye box scare me away.

I've owned/used Vortex PST 1-4/1-6, Steiner P4Xi 1-4, Razor II 1-6, PA 1-6/1-8, SWFA 1-6, & Valdada 1-8. None of which have good enough reticles and/or magnification to run confidently past 500m.

Am I reaching beyond the philosophy of use for a LPVO?

Which one to upgrade to on my go to DMR 5.56 AR?

charnicus · Aug 4, 2021

You may consider the Minox ZP8. That, the Vortex and the Atacr are the only LPVO reticles (that I know of) that give you windage holds up to 10mil. For your use I would say a tree may be beneficial. This would immediately weed out a few or more options.

I recently finished two DMR setups and went with a K16i and Atacr 1-8. I don’t think you’re beyond the philosophy. If anything newer designs are catering to that use.

koshkin · Aug 4, 2021

I settled on the Razor Gen3 1-10x24 with mrad reticle for similar application.
That having been said, March is about to come out with a tree reticle in its 1-10x24 Shorty which will do what you are asking for. It has side-focus, so if longer distances are important, it is a very compelling option.

ILya

MarshallDodge · Aug 4, 2021

I like as much magnification as possible but if you are doing close up work, a 1X on the bottom end is necessary, or use the offset RDS. Having 16 or 18X at the top end makes for a better target picture and you can see your hits/misses much better.

Currently I am running some old tech on my ARs, the highest magnification is a Bushnell 1-8.5 SMRS. I've shot full size silhouettes with it at 1K but 800 is more reasonable as it is really hard to spot misses beyond that.

Bakwa · Aug 4, 2021

koshkin said:
I settled on the Razor Gen3 1-10x24 with mrad reticle for similar application.
That having been said, March is about to come out with a tree reticle in its 1-10x24 Shorty which will do what you are asking for. It has side-focus, so if longer distances are important, it is a very compelling option.

ILya

ILya,

My primary concerns about the 1-10 Shorty are the eye box and obtaining the hard to get proprietary mount for it. How limiting is the eye box at 1X and then at 10X? Same with the perceived eye relief? You have more miles on this scope than most.

The side focus would bring this one into a league of it's own with a good reticle. Any guess as to when they might release this little guy?

srt-4_uk · Aug 4, 2021

You can scratch the NX8 off the list if you are concerned with eyebox. It's extremely tight in the higher mag ranges.

TacosGigante · Aug 4, 2021

Doesn’t one of the Steiner M8XI 1-8 have side focus? No idea if it is any good.

Guns&WhiteWater · Aug 4, 2021

If you are going to mount a RDS on it, would you be better served using a scope in the 3-15 range rather than a LPVO?

koshkin · Aug 4, 2021

Bakwa said:
ILya,

My primary concerns about the 1-10 Shorty are the eye box and obtaining the hard to get proprietary mount for it. How limiting is the eye box at 1X and then at 10X? Same with the perceived eye relief? You have more miles on this scope than most.

The side focus would bring this one into a league of it's own with a good reticle. Any guess as to when they might release this little guy?

I thought it was pretty forgiving on low magnification. I think Razor Gen3 is slightly better in that regard, but the differences are small.

On 10x, anything with a 24mm objective will get fairly tight.

The proprietary mount is not my favourite thing in the world, but it works well and you only need to procure it once.

My best guess is that the new reticle will be out toward the end of the year, but I do not know for sure.

ILya

Center Mass · Aug 4, 2021

I was going to start a similar thread and I don't want to hijack this one so I will follow closely.

Bakwa · Aug 4, 2021

Center Mass said:
I was going to start a similar thread and I don't want to hijack this one so I will follow closely.

Feel free to use this thread so long as your questions are similar enough to mine. I welcome as many angles as I can find.

Center Mass · Aug 4, 2021

Well, I was looking for kinda the same in the mid-range category, $1000-$1500. I would like a 1-8 with a BDC but can't seem to find just the right one. I know some may say go 1-10 but I am not a fan of 10x scopes with no parallax based on experience. Of the ones you listed, the NX8 would be in the price range but I am leery of the small FOV, it's not a BDC, and the center of the reticle seems cluttered with the thick doughnut....

Bakwa · Aug 4, 2021

Center Mass said:
Well, I was looking for kinda the same in the mid-range category, $1000-$1500. I would like a 1-8 with a BDC but can't seem to find just the right one. I know some may say go 1-10 but I am not a fan of 10x scopes with no parallax based on experience. Of the ones you listed, the NX8 would be in the price range but I am leery of the small FOV, it's not a BDC, and the center of the reticle seems cluttered with the thick doughnut....

I know it's not a 1-8, but for you I'd say Razor II or Kahles 16 wood work very well, unless you just really need that extra 2x.

Center Mass · Aug 4, 2021

Bakwa said:
I know it's not a 1-8, but for you I'd say Razor II or Kahles 16 wood work very well, unless you just really need that extra 2x.

I just sold a K16i because the SM-1 reticle was a pain to try and count down the hash marks, maybe the 3GR would be better. The G2 Razor is the gold standard but with more companies coming out with better reticle designs, I think the Razor is starting to fall behind in that department.

I would like a more complex (or useful) BDC like the BDC-3 in the 1-8 Vortex strike eagle, but with much better glass. I have a SAI 1-6 with a very smartly designed reticle which I would love to see in a 1-8. I'm not sure if i need the 2x more but I think you should have as much magnification as possible.

and there I go hijacking.....sorry.

CM

Birddog6424 · Aug 4, 2021

With an offset RDS I wouldn't bother with an LPVO. What would be the point? Anything an LPVO can do, an RDS combo can do better. Red dot on 70 yards and in, 3x and up the rest of the way out.

A 3-15 or 3-18 would be ideal.

Clayman · Aug 5, 2021

Bakwa said:
Yes, I'm going to beat this topic to death.

What top end scope would you choose for 60% standard close AR stuff, but then 40% of the time reaching from 300m-800m?
Used for DMR/long range tactical comps.
Eye relief and eye box are important. We're talking odd shooting positions.
It will probably be paired with an offset RD.

All of my dope is in mils so the reticle should be a mil reticle capable of elevation holds to about 10 mils.

My thoughts:
Please correct and/or advise:
I can get a stupid good deal on the M8Xi; is that one worth the weight? I like the clean but usable DMR reticle in it and all other Steiners I've used have had excellent eye box and eye relief.
Everyone rides the Razor train. To me it seems like it sacrifices a good bit to have a 10x variable. Top end distortion, FOV, etc...? The MRAD reticle is nice though.
Haven't gotten behind either of the NF LPVO's in the field. My previous experiences with other NF's push me into being very hesitant about the eye relief and eye box.
March's lacking eye relief and eye box scare me away.

I've owned/used Vortex PST 1-4/1-6, Steiner P4Xi 1-4, Razor II 1-6, PA 1-6/1-8, SWFA 1-6, & Valdada 1-8. None of which have good enough reticles and/or magnification to run confidently past 500m.

Am I reaching beyond the philosophy of use for a LPVO?

Which one to upgrade to on my go to DMR 5.56 AR?

Heres my Nightforce ATACR 1-8x24 FC-DMx

I tried to get some pictures for you at 801 & 811 yards.

Keep in mind this is my cell phone with me holding it trying to get some pictures, not exactly an ideal set up. The sun was also facing me, not ideal for my phone trying to get a picture.

Rock I'm aiming at is at 801 yards according to sig kilo 2000

Spot I'm aiming at is 811 yards

A bit later I just took a reticle picture in some clouds, I'll have to try in the morning some time. My phone struggles to get a clear picture with the sun position.

As far as awkward shooting positions, eye box, etc maybe Mike can shed some light on this if you value his opinion. He seems to really like it.

rydah · Aug 6, 2021

I had a razor 1-10 on my 16 inch 308 and it was great for close up but beyond 400m I really didn’t enjoy it. I think if you’re going to push out you’re much better off with an offset RDS and something like a nightforce 2.5-10x42 or similar sized/weight 3-15 style optic.

Budrichard · Aug 6, 2021

I have the S&B SD Dual CC 1-8 in Pantone mounted on a SIg MCX pistol.
How that differs from the S&B SD CC 1-8, I can’t figure out.
No need for a separate RDS.
Took 6 months to get in FDE.
Very happy with it but there is a lot of tech with it.
You have mag ring, illumination ring with separate settings for both modes.
-Richard

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Rifle Scopes Clash of the high-end LPVO's: Stretching to longer distance...

Which high end LPVO for stretching out to 800yds with 5.56?

Razor Gen III 1-10

Steiner M8Xi 1-8

NF ATACR 1-8

NF NX8 1-8

S&B SD CC 1-8

Other LPVO

Or am I barking up the worng tree and just need a light MPVO?

Should I just wait for a ZCO LPVO? ;-)

Prophetic Marksman

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