Bulletproof rifle scopes and are newer versions more robust than old?

YOLO · Aug 6, 2021

Hi all,
I have done a great deal of research and have gone off of mostly what "tiborasaurusrex" on his YouTube channel has recommended. Pretty much all of his stuff in the "Sniper 101" series (that I have seen so far) makes a lot of sense.
So from his recommendations, which are reasonably old now, a fixed scope is 'tougher' than a variable power.
Regarding make and models, I was thinking of:
SWFA SS 10x42
or
going to the other end of the spectrum with a Schmidt and Bender (S&B) PMII 10x42.

US optics do the FDN FX10 10X42MM but they are more expensive than the S&B for me in Australia- are they as good as a S&B?
I noticed in another forum that the Bushnell Elite Tactical LRS 10x42 Rifle Scope is another option but they aren't listed on their website- are they now redundant, and if not, are they any good?

The SWFA's are a pain to get here in Australia because I'd have to send it to a forwarder such as "Hop-Shop-Go" because of their policies...

And then I saw the following statement on another website and was hoping someone here could verify its credibility:
"The old school benefit of fixed power being sturdier is gone with the newer scope designs/materials/manufacturers."

I have had 2 lower end optics break on me in the last 6 months so I want something bulletproof. My requirements for a scope are that it has to have mil or moa markings (for rangefinding) and turrets designed for constant adjusting. The S&B PMII and SWFA SS are military rated. Do you guys know what else fits into these requirements? Tiborasaurusrex claims that he broke a PMII with variable magnification, which shows to me that even the best of the best with variable magnification are still no match compared to fixed magnification when it comes to ruggedness.

Anyway, I'd be interested in people's experience and knowledge on the matter.

Cheers

supercorndogs · Aug 6, 2021

Get a quality variable power scope. I would be pretty hard pressed to settle for a fixed power in todays world. Everything breaks.

VargmatII · Aug 6, 2021

Unless you regularly use your scope as a hammer and/or have it bolted to any 50BMG rifle, I would not worry about it.
Get the scope with variable power that tickles your fancy. You will be fine. And pretty much any quality scope come with a warranty that is there if you need it.

If all else fails. I would trust that old Nightforce NXS scopes are especially tough. But I have faith in my Schmidt and my Kahles alike.

spife7980 · Aug 6, 2021

YOLO said:
I have had 2 lower end optics break on me in the last 6 months so I want something bulletproof. My requirements for a scope are that it has to have mil or moa markings (for rangefinding) and turrets designed for constant adjusting. The S&B PMII and SWFA SS are military rated. Do you guys know what else fits into these requirements? Tiborasaurusrex claims that he broke a PMII with variable magnification, which shows to me that even the best of the best with

Don’t buy shitty scopes then and don’t listen to retards on YouTube. They sold you a view and a pile of crap, that’s it.

Mute · Aug 6, 2021

A modern, high quality variable scope is just as robust as any fixed scope. The old adage of fixed being sturdier no longer applies as long as you get a quality variable magnification scope.

Long Range 338 · Aug 6, 2021

As long as you stick to the well known major players you're going to be fine. They have earned their reputations. Google is your friend...

chevy_man · Aug 6, 2021

If you're spending $2-300 or less, expect that it will be broken at some point.

If you're spending $1500+, expect that it will be a fluke or serious abuse if it ever breaks.

Just Macca · Aug 6, 2021

What’s your use for it @YOLO?

If you’re like me, it will ultimately end up being for longer range hunting and starting to shoot targets at longer range.

Unlike the USA which has a huge variety or PRS style shooting competitions, Aus is limited.

If you’re getting the scope that you plan on putting on a rifle you’ll carry and hunt with, and do target shooting half the time too, let me save you years.

Get the new Vortex LHT 4.5-22x50 FFP with Milliradian XLR-2 reticle. It’s just announced and due out in Aus in a week. You’ll pay about $2100.

I’ve been down this road, ultimately you’ll want a scope thats practical above all else - and a 30-40oz (1kg+) tactical scope on a 12lb (5kg+) rifle is a prick to carry and even spotlight with.

Baron23 · Aug 6, 2021

I love this clip from a Rex vid.....must have been during a lesson on NPA, right?

Huskydriver · Aug 6, 2021

Baron23 said:
I love this clip from a Rex vid.....must have been during a lesson on NPA, right?

View attachment 7681002

Boomers and their hats.....

Baron23 · Aug 6, 2021

Huskydriver said:
Boomers and their hats.....

Dey ain't boomers, dude...I'm a boomer. I know! haha

Now THIS is a hat for boomer

308pirate · Aug 6, 2021

YOLO said:
Hi all,
I have done a great deal of research and have gone off of mostly what "tiborasaurusrex" on his YouTube channel has recommended. Pretty much all of his stuff in the "Sniper 101" series (that I have seen so far) makes a lot of sense.
So from his recommendations, which are reasonably old now, a fixed scope is 'tougher' than a variable power.
Regarding make and models, I was thinking of:
SWFA SS 10x42
or
going to the other end of the spectrum with a Schmidt and Bender (S&B) PMII 10x42.

US optics do the FDN FX10 10X42MM but they are more expensive than the S&B for me in Australia- are they as good as a S&B?
I noticed in another forum that the Bushnell Elite Tactical LRS 10x42 Rifle Scope is another option but they aren't listed on their website- are they now redundant, and if not, are they any good?

The SWFA's are a pain to get here in Australia because I'd have to send it to a forwarder such as "Hop-Shop-Go" because of their policies...

And then I saw the following statement on another website and was hoping someone here could verify its credibility:
"The old school benefit of fixed power being sturdier is gone with the newer scope designs/materials/manufacturers."

I have had 2 lower end optics break on me in the last 6 months so I want something bulletproof. My requirements for a scope are that it has to have mil or moa markings (for rangefinding) and turrets designed for constant adjusting. The S&B PMII and SWFA SS are military rated. Do you guys know what else fits into these requirements? Tiborasaurusrex claims that he broke a PMII with variable magnification, which shows to me that even the best of the best with variable magnification are still no match compared to fixed magnification when it comes to ruggedness.

Anyway, I'd be interested in people's experience and knowledge on the matter.

Cheers

I strongly suggest that you stop listening to the YouTube idiot and pay attention instead to @Just Macca

YOLO · Aug 8, 2021

Thanks all for the replies.
@Just Macca
I currently need 2 scopes- one for a hunting sport bolt action in 308 and one for a Bergara BM14 HMR (308 target bolt action) that I just ordered.

But I'm mainly concerned with the target scope that I want to use for hunting and long range targets.
I have used a Leupold with a CCH reticle which was awesome- very similar to the XLR-2 reticle. These holdover points are awesome for quick follow up shots. Weight isn't of concern really because I don't need to walk too far with it for my purposes.

I guess my question to everyone is then:
Aside from glass, what justifies the extra cost to the Schmidt and Benders and Nightforce scopes? As in, are all of their threads hardened and ground, do they use 7075 instead of 6061, or is it mostly in the brand name?
As good as a warranty is, if you're out in the middle of nowhere and it breaks, you'll probably be fairly disheartened.

I guess a similar example can be demonstrated with vehicles. In Australia, you could buy a $250, 000 Range Rover and an $80,000 Toyota Landcruiser. If you want a vehicle that will get through the harshest of conditions, the Land Cruiser wins, hands down. The price in the Range Rover comes because of brand name alone, not quality (and I am not trying to offend anybody with this statement- there's a reason that only these type of vehicles are seen in the remote outback). Mine-site tested vehicles are another example as you can still get duds from all manufacturers- mining companies have tested vehicles and only a few make it to become their workhorses, such as the 2004 Nissan Navara D22. These cars went up and down the mines all day in crazy heat with amazing reliability. My parent's family Corolla has done 270,000km with the only malfunction to this date being engine overcooling (thermostat was stuck open) which was an affect on fuel consumption- the car would keep driving.

What would you guys say are the most rugged work horses of scopes by manufacturer and model? As in, the Vortex LHT 4.5-22x50 FFP is a far more practical scope than a S&B PMII 10x42, but I guess the S&B is used by military for a reason? But then again, that can simply be because of contracts, etc.

I know I am harping on about this, but hopefully some of you understand where I'm coming from. I just want to make the right decision if I'm outlaying this sort of money- for example- Leupold MARK 5HD 5-25X56 at $2700AUD vs Schmidt & Bender PM II 5-25x56 $4300 AUD.Are S&B worth that much more?

Just Macca · Aug 8, 2021

The short version: Buy a Bushnell DMR2 or an XRS2, even go second hand in good
condition online. They’re very reliable and will offer performance in line with the price and performance of your Bergara rifles.

Long version...

I get what you’re saying. If you want a scope regarded by internet folklore as one of the most bomb proof, a US optics ST-10 is probably up there. There’s one for sale on usedguns right now for $1900 AUD with Mil RDP reticle and EREK turret, and I’ve only ever seen a couple for sale in Australia.

I think at some point I’ve also seen someone who gets paid to market rifles scopes hammer in nails with a scope and then shoot groups, maybe a Nightforce? Probably an NXS... Will your NXS do the same? I dunno, maybe.

Having said all that, a fixed 10 power is not the most versatile - and as everyone has said several times, I would strongly caution you against a fixed 10. I’ve had a fixed 10 power tactical scope because like you, I once had my head filled with the same outdated ideas that it would be better. I sold it without regret (rare in the shooting sports). Fixed 10 power was shit hot in 1995 - but there’s better stuff now.

Looking at your car analogy, every product falls on an exponential scale. Product A is the greatest and cost $5000 to give you 99% performance. Product C costs $500 and gives you 50%. Product B costs $2000 and gives you 90%. That final 9% costs a lot for minimal gain.

If you still stick by reliable as the yard stick for what you want, ultimately anything over $1500-$2000 in Australia from a major brand will be decent.

Just don’t get one of those off brand weird Euro scopes that Rex bangs on about, they’re turds and I don’t even recall their name.

EDIT: IOR, give that a miss.

XTREM HTR16 · Aug 8, 2021

If you hunt in open areas with longer shots, the PMII 10x42 works great and won’t fail.

beetroot · Aug 9, 2021

A top of the line Range Rover and a 70 series Land Crusier and two completely different vehicles and not really a comparison worth making in most regards.

Same with 7075 vs 6061, the grade of materials and heat treatments are not something that should worth thinking about.

You are way over thinking things, if you do a bit of research you'll find most people over think scope choice and would be fine with pretty much any scope on the market.
A top end scope from Leupold, Vortex, NF, ZCO, Bushnell, NF, S&B, Tangent Theta (there are many more) will for the most part be as reliable as anything
All manufacturers have individual scopes that have issues regardless of how much you spend or how simple they are.

Buy a half decent scope and just use it, don't sweat the small things.

PS, DON'T stress about what bloody mount/rings to use, if they cost more than 100AUD then they will be fine.

samnev · Aug 9, 2021

VargmatII said:
Unless you regularly use your scope as a hammer and/or have it bolted to any 50BMG rifle, I would not worry about it.
Get the scope with variable power that tickles your fancy. You will be fine. And pretty much any quality scope come with a warranty that is there if you need it.

If all else fails. I would trust that old Nightforce NXS scopes are especially tough. But I have faith in my Schmidt and my Kahles alike.

I agree with the above especially with the NF NXS recommendation.

308pirate · Aug 9, 2021

beetroot said:
You are way over thinking things

Yeah this guy has all the warning signs of analysis paralysis

308pirate · Aug 9, 2021

YOLO said:
I guess my question to everyone is then:
Aside from glass, what justifies the extra cost to the Schmidt and Benders and Nightforce scopes? As in, are all of their threads hardened and ground, do they use 7075 instead of 6061, or is it mostly in the brand name?

The overall sum of excellence in research and development, design, engineering (both mechanical and optical), material selections (a subset of engineering), manufacturing process design and execution, training, skilled personnel compensation and retention, testing, and inspection is superior to almost all others.

That shit costs a lot of money.

Glassaholic · Aug 9, 2021

YOLO said:
I have done a great deal of research and have gone off of mostly what "tiborasaurusrex" on his YouTube channel has recommended.

You lost me with this opening statement, yes, he has quite the YT following but the few episodes I've listened to have made me cringe at times.

Regarding the title of your thread, there is no bulletproof scope (regardless of what Nightforce marketing would like to tell you) as any scope on earth is capable of failure. Yes, that NF worked after a bullet went through a part of the scope that it didn't blast or shatter glass or mechanics, I'd venture to say half a dozen or so other scopes would also have continued functioning... but good marketing for sure.

Take the advice of many others above and look into a good scope from a good manufacturer. You mentioned Schmidt PMII and SWFA SS being "military grade", what does that mean to you? Most modern scopes above $1k are built to take a pounding, yes, some have better reputations than others and some horror stories abound with certain brand models.

Listen to Macca and beetroot, they're down in your neck of the woods and can give some sound advise on what's readily available down under...

spife7980 · Aug 9, 2021

Glassaholic said:
being "military grade", what does that mean to you?

Lowest bidder won lol

YOLO · Aug 13, 2021

@Just Macca
Thank you for a solid reply. Much appreciated. That US Optics scope is impressively tough. I'll take your advice though and go with a variable- probably a NXS 5.5-22.
@beetroot
The car analogy was to demonstrate value for money. I was just trying to point out that the more you spend does not necessarily relate to better value for money at all. RE the heat treat and materials, etc.- that was just me trying to understand where the extra money comes from as there are very significant differences amongst the manufacturers. "All manufacturers have individual scopes that have issues regardless of how much you spend or how simple they are."- that's kind of what I was after and so far, the top suggestions were the PMII, ST-10 and the NXS. I already have some run of the mill priced forged steel Leupolds which you can't really go wrong with. Maybe overthinking things a little but dropping 2-3K on a scope is a reasonable amount of dough to me so I want to make sure I'm buying something that is a proven model. I don't know much at all about optics quality but you guys on here have probably do- Just Macca and others have saved me the pita of discovering everything for myself

@Glassaholic!
I know what you mean- those videos are somewhat cringeworthy to say the least. "military grade"- somewhat tried and tested to meet some sort of minimum standard?

Thanks all for the replies- even if I need to get some stick for it along the way

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