Experience of Defiance Deviant vs Rukus Actions

Baron23 · Aug 11, 2021

Hi guys - I mentioned in another thread that I'm going to have Altus do a barreled action for me. Barrel is a Bartlein MOD400BB in .264 with 8:7.5 slight gain twist. Its on order and will be probably another 5-6 months so I have time to collect the rest of the parts.

In talking to Altus, I was going to just go with a Deviant but they suggested looking at the Rukus as its the same action but done on their newer machines so they can hold tolerances tight enough for pre-fits.

Looking at Defiance's site, it does appear that these are really identical actions with few exceptions like can't get 3 position safety on the Rukus which is not an issue to me.

Am I missing something here? Are there any other differences that any of you with experience with both have discovered.

Also, the Rukus is less money and I assume that's because of less manual set up by doing it all/most on one machine (they mention the bolt) versus the Deviant.

Right now, I'm leaning toward the Rukus and am hard pressed to find a reason why not.

Thanks for your time to consider my inquiry.

Curahee19 · Aug 11, 2021

I have both. If I were to get another it would definitely be the ruckus. Why not have pre fit barrels ready to go whenever you need them

Baron23 · Aug 11, 2021

Curahee19 said:
I have both. If I were to get another it would definitely be the ruckus. Why not have pre fit barrels ready to go whenever you need them

Thanks...so, I'm guessing that aside from being compatible with pre-fits, you don't see any other difference in these actions?

b6graham · Aug 11, 2021

Baron23 said:
Thanks...so, I'm guessing that aside from being compatible with pre-fits, you don't see any other difference in these actions?

Not unless get in the custom features

For standard actions I see no reason not to go Ruckus

Baron23 · Aug 11, 2021

b6graham said:
Not unless get in the custom features

For standard actions I see no reason not to go Ruckus

Thanks....I went over the options that Defiance offers with Altus and I'm fine with their standard config.

I'm not going with controlled round feed, 3 position safety, or anything else unusual so it seems Rukus is the way to go for me.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

Nouseforaname01 · Aug 11, 2021

Owned both and like others said unless you want to specify tolerances with the Deviant, then the Ruckus is fine and extra bolts are only $275.

Baron23 · Aug 11, 2021

Nouseforaname01 said:
unless you want to specify tolerances with the Deviant

Uh, I don't see that as an issue for me at all....but what tolerances. I see some options available for the Deviant (like the 3 positions safety) that are not available on the Rukus, but what else could one customize in terms of tolerances?

I looked but couldn't see anything along those lines.

Thank you for the reply.

Nouseforaname01 · Aug 11, 2021

You would have to order directly from Defiance Machine, but the Deviant could be a customized action. I am not at that level of experience so I usually deferred the the person building my rifles, but you can see the options on their website.

just browsing · Aug 11, 2021

I had both, kept the Deviant.

Deviant “not holding tight enough tolerances” is a complete misconception. It’s still their flagship action and why Defiance still makes and sells it along with the Ruckus. But because the Deviant has multiple configurations (repeater, BDL, single shot, tenon lengths, conical, flat, and recessed bolt noses, etc.) there is no way to make prefit barrels or guarantee headspace across all those options. Also what Nouse is referring to… if you wanted or needed a specific option, the Deviant would make more sense. But just so you’re clear, that’s why the Ruckus has that prefit options and the Deviant does not.

That said, the Deviant was the “better feel” to me. Effortless bolt lift, manipulation and close, smooth as buttered glass, and locks up like a bank vault. The Ruckus was not bad by any means, but to me, certainly not on the same level as the Deviant either.

Ultimately there’s no wrong choice as Defiance makes a top notch product regardless of product line… it’s going to boil down to your needs and preferences.

Baron23 · Aug 11, 2021

just browsing said:
I had both, kept the Deviant.

Deviant “not holding tight enough tolerances” is a complete misconception. It’s still their flagship action and why Defiance still makes and sells it along with the Ruckus. But because the Deviant has multiple configurations (repeater, BDL, single shot, tenon lengths, conical, flat, and recessed bolt noses, etc.) there is no way to make prefit barrels or guarantee headspace across all those options. Also what Nouse is referring to… if you wanted or needed a specific option, the Deviant would make more sense. But just so you’re clear, that’s why the Ruckus has that prefit options and the Deviant does not.

That said, the Deviant was the “better feel” to me. Effortless bolt lift, manipulation and close, smooth as buttered glass, and locks up like a bank vault. The Ruckus was not bad by any means, but to me, certainly not on the same level as the Deviant either.

Ultimately there’s no wrong choice as Defiance makes a top notch product regardless of product line… it’s going to boil down to your needs and preferences.

Thank you....great feedback. Appreciate your taking the time to reply.

I will check, but I do believe bolt nose options are available for both of these actions and Altus goes with recessed unless otherwise specified and I'm good with that.

Also, both say that they work with hinged floorplates, detachable magazines, or single shots.

Seems like there are some differences but they are small and I would probably be happy with either.

Edds · Aug 11, 2021

The bolts are different, specifically the bolt handle. The bolt with a Deviant and Rebel style handle is more expensive to make.

BigPrince · Aug 11, 2021

I have both a Deviant Tactical and Ruckus tactical sitting next to each other. One is a 300PRC and one is a 300wm. Both headspace the exact same with either Proof prefit barrel mounted. The only difference is the headspace gaurantee of the Ruckus and the bolt handle is different as mentioned. The Ruckus bolt handle is round and removable at the top so you can change styles if you want. The Deviant is solid and flatter so the bolt handle opening needs to be larger(either will fit the Foundation opening, manners had to be opened a little from their Ruckus cut). Both have the same throw, the same feel, the same everything. Either bolt worked in either action with the same headspace in these two.

If you want to spec specific features like controlled feed or different bolt recess call Defiance and you may go with the Deviant. If you just want off the shelf features or if Prefit guarantee is a requirement, go with the Ruckus. Given both are basically the exact same I will go with the Ruckus from now on so I have the headspace guarantee IF i want to throw a prefit on it.

Deviant handle on top

Baron23 · Aug 11, 2021

BigPrince said:
I have both a Deviant Tactical and Ruckus tactical sitting next to each other. One is a 300PRC and one is a 300wm. Both headspace the exact same with either Proof prefit barrel mounted. The only difference is the headspace gaurantee of the Ruckus and the bolt handle is different as mentioned. The Ruckus bolt handle is round and removable at the top so you can change styles if you want. The Deviant is solid and flatter so the bolt handle opening needs to be larger. Both have the same throw, the same feel, the same everything. If you want to spec specific features like controlled feed or different bolt recess call Defiance and you may go with the Deviant. If you just want off the shelf features or if Prefit guarantee is a requirement, go with the Ruckus. Given both are basically the exact same I will go with the Ruckus from now on so I have the headspace guarantee IF i want to throw a prefit on it.

Thank you....wow, decisions, decisions! LOL

Baron23 · Aug 11, 2021

BigPrince said:
I have both a Deviant Tactical and Ruckus tactical sitting next to each other. One is a 300PRC and one is a 300wm. Both headspace the exact same with either Proof prefit barrel mounted. The only difference is the headspace gaurantee of the Ruckus and the bolt handle is different as mentioned. The Ruckus bolt handle is round and removable at the top so you can change styles if you want. The Deviant is solid and flatter so the bolt handle opening needs to be larger. Both have the same throw, the same feel, the same everything. If you want to spec specific features like controlled feed or different bolt recess call Defiance and you may go with the Deviant. If you just want off the shelf features or if Prefit guarantee is a requirement, go with the Ruckus. Given both are basically the exact same I will go with the Ruckus from now on so I have the headspace guarantee IF i want to throw a prefit on it.

Deviant handle on top

Oh, dang...forgot a question for you.

On the Deviant they have an option of either the Defiance bolt handle...which I believe is rather straight out...or the standard handle which is supposed to be compatible with Rem 700 inletting.

But, on the Rukus, they don't say.

Is the Ruckus swept back at all?

Is your Ruckus in a stock inletted specifically for a Rem 700 fit or in a chassis?

I'm planning to put this in a JAE chassis and I know that Rem 700 bolt recess works with it but not sure about the "Defiance" on and what is provided on the Rukus which doesn't give you the option.

BigPrince · Aug 11, 2021

Baron23 said:
Oh, dang...forgot a question for you.

On the Deviant they have an option of either the Defiance bolt handle...which I believe is rather straight out...or the standard handle which is supposed to be compatible with Rem 700 inletting.

But, on the Rukus, they don't say.

Is the Ruckus swept back at all?

Is your Ruckus in a stock inletted specifically for a Rem 700 fit or in a chassis?

I'm planning to put this in a JAE chassis and I know that Rem 700 bolt recess works with it but not sure about the "Defiance" on and what is provided on the Rukus which doesn't give you the option.

Pic attached above after posting. I can't answer with certainty if it matches the angle of a 700 bolt. The Foundation the Ruckus is in is inlet for a Ruckus specifically. The Deviant fits but a regular 700 does not due to the body of the 700. Does not fit in it to even see if the bolt fits. I'd call Defiance.

Baron23 · Aug 11, 2021

BigPrince said:
Pic attached above after posting. I can't answer with certainty if it matches the angle of a 700 bolt. The Foundation the Ruckus is in is inlet for a Ruckus specifically. The Deviant fits but a regular 700 does not due to the body of the 700. Does not fit in it to even see if the bolt fits.

Thanks and yeah, they both look to be slightly swept back and I doubt very seriously if I will have a problem with the bolt handle with the JAE.

Thanks again for taking the time to reply.

Nouseforaname01 · Aug 11, 2021

I had my Ruckus and Deviant in a JAE for a while and had no issues with either.

Baron23 · Aug 11, 2021

Nouseforaname01 said:
I had my Ruckus and Deviant in a JAE for a while and had no issues with either.

Thanks...GREAT data point.

Hawk in WY · Aug 12, 2021

The pre-fit barrel capability of the Ruckus may or may not be important to you.

Whoever cuts your first barrel will keep the measurements of your action and can then cuts additional barrels without seeing your action again.

That does limit you to one smith but you might even ask for the measurement so you can go elsewhere is you wish.

Baron23 · Aug 12, 2021

Hawk in WY said:
Whoever cuts your first barrel will keep the measurements of your action and can then cuts additional barrels without seeing your action again.

You mean with a Deviant action?

Didn’t know that.

thanks

Hawk in WY · Aug 12, 2021

Baron23 said:
You mean with a Deviant action?

Yes.

b6graham · Aug 12, 2021

Baron23 said:
You mean with a Deviant action?

Didn’t know that.

thanks

Any good smith can. But just that smith unless another one gets the action to measure it

Baron23 · Aug 12, 2021

b6graham said:
Any good smith can. But just that smith unless another one gets the action to measure it

Thanks. Going to have Altus do this BA and I’ll mention this to them.

thanks!!

AccuSol-ERN · Aug 22, 2021

I prefer the Ruckus by far.

I've seen too many Deviants headspace between .964-.970........Sure MOST of them HS at .967ish.......and MOST of the them fall within class 3 thread specs.

You can get the "measurements" from the first smith......but you are still voluntarily excluding yourself from off-the-shelf prefit use. WHY?????

Especially, given the fact you are not choosing any of the options that make a Deviant special?????

Some guys have a bolt handle shape preferance.......or want to stay consistent with their other rifles built on Deviants and I get that.

As far as "feels better".....there are too many variables to really use this are judging criteria. Difference in bolt/receiver wear, coating variation, firing pin assembly variation, trigger variation, etc. Down to the type and amount of lube used bolt lug seats, shroud threads, etc.

Ern

Baron23 · Aug 22, 2021

fng23 said:
I prefer the Ruckus by far.

I've seen too many Deviants headspace between .964-.970........Sure MOST of them HS at .967ish.......and MOST of the them fall within class 3 thread specs.

You can get the "measurements" from the first smith......but you are still voluntarily excluding yourself from off-the-shelf prefit use. WHY?????

Especially, given the fact you are not choosing any of the options that make a Deviant special?????

Some guys have a bolt handle shape preferance.......or want to stay consistent with their other rifles built on Deviants and I get that.

As far as "feels better".....there are too many variables to really use this are judging criteria. Difference in bolt/receiver wear, coating variation, firing pin assembly variation, trigger variation, etc. Down to the type and amount of lube used bolt lug seats, shroud threads, etc.

Ern

Wow, sort of wish I had this reply from you before I bought a Deviant from you (Altus) last Wed! haha

I bought an Deviant that is either one of the batch still out for nitriding or, if its back already, then its on a shelf in your shop waiting for a 400MODBB MTU blank from Bartlein that I ordered and that is still at least four months out.

Now my head hurts.

I guess I'll give Al a call back this coming week and drive him crazy with this decision...or my lack of decision.

No, I don't have any other Deviant's I'm trying to match. Yes, I like the Deviant bolt handle better but, even so, that just doesn't seem like a key criteria to me.

I will have you spin up this new blank from Bartlein when I get it so the first barrel on will not be a prefit, but I get what you are saying.

BuLLet · Aug 22, 2021

Ut oh... did Snoopy just crash his dog house?

Baron23 said:
Wow, sort of wish I had this reply from you before I bought a Deviant from you (Altus) last Wed! haha

I bought an Deviant that is either one of the batch still out for nitriding or, if its back already, then its on a shelf in your shop waiting for a 400MODBB MTU blank from Bartlein that I ordered and that is still at least four months out.

Now my head hurts.

I guess I'll give Al a call back this coming week and drive him crazy with this decision...or my lack of decision.

No, I don't have any other Deviant's I'm trying to match. Yes, I like the Deviant bolt handle better but, even so, that just doesn't seem like a key criteria to me.

I will have you spin up this new blank from Bartlein when I get it so the first barrel on will not be a prefit, but I get what you are saying.

BuLLet · Aug 22, 2021

Just an fyi... Last defiance action I got from GAP they are still marked Templar II but they call it a Ruckus bolt... it's probably just a rebadged full Ruckus. No difference really other then the bolt, according to GAP. The posts about my MCS PRS-TCS in Americana is that build. I had them spin up an extra barrel for it too before they shipped it out.

BigPrince · Aug 22, 2021

Ern didn't say anything that wasn't posted a couple times before. Since you're using a blank it doesn't matter on this barreling anyway. You're going to be happy with either.

AccuSol-ERN · Aug 25, 2021

Haha.

Don't overthink it. You will be fine either way.......not worth switching.

Although I cut quite a few prefit spec barrels and they shoot really well, I do believe a hand-fit barrel (thread fit and headspace) is the better option. It's called Precision Rifle for a reason.

Prefits have their place for sure, but it's logistics......not all out performance.

Just my $.02

Ern

CK1.0 · Aug 25, 2021

Since you guys are mentioning Deviants and seem well versed in the Defiance stuff: anyone have experience with the Deviant giant Mauser-style claw controlled-round-feed variant..? Thinking about ordering one, but have never even seen one in real life, let alone put hands on one, and they ain't exactly cheap, so any intel would be helpful... (it's even hard to find pics of ones out there).

I've always thought the giant Mauser-claws were cool as hell and just dig the design, that's the only reason I want one.

Also, since ordering a CRF Deviant would mean going custom anyway, anyone know if I could just order/spec that it headspace like a Ruckus to accept prefits as a custom option? I mean, I could be completely wrong here, but if it's a one-off, wouldn't initially machining the action face oversized, and then taking it down post threading to hit a specific headspace be possible?

Thanks.

Edds · Aug 25, 2021

Getting a prefit for the claw extractor will be more difficult There needs to be a notch in the face of the barrel for the claw.

I don't have a Deviant with a claw but I do have a long Rebel that has one.

CK1.0 · Aug 25, 2021

Edds said:
Getting a prefit for the claw extractor will be more difficult There needs to be a notch in the face of the barrel for the claw.

I don't have a Deviant with a claw but I do have a long Rebel that has one.

Thanks

did not know... like an actual timed notch? or more like a recess? Just curious...

Edds · Aug 25, 2021

ceekay1 said:
Thanks did not know... like an actual timed notch? or more like a recess? Just curious...

A timed notch, like the one on a Model 70 Winchester.

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