I went off Hathcocked.

pmclaine · Aug 12, 2021

Another HAF!, half day....M70 at 300 yards.

In the shade...

Not super impressed....this ammo has some issues but explanations are just whining....all 20 on paper though so that positive.

As I was leaving this motherfucker yelled out........

"Your M1A's Mom is a whore!"

Who says that about Mrs Garand?

He fucked around, hes gonna find out..........

Defender3 · Aug 12, 2021

Beautiful looking rifle. Have you tried the Hornady Garand load?

Still looks minute of dead, but the problem is you have all that fancy rest and bag shit, she wants to be au natural.

sirhrmechanic · Aug 12, 2021

@pmclaine ... some days I hate you. Because you have all the great stuff I want. And refuse to wear funny Marine Beanies!

What an amazing rifle. And guessing that you have some kind of ammo thing going on there. Because that rifle in your hands should be a hammer.

As for the picture above... when are people going to realize that is Not Carlos Hathcock...

Good on you, pal, for getting out in this heat. I hayed for 7 straight hours today in the sun. I feel like I've been on the Bataan Death March. Except that at the end of the day, I get beer and Pretzels. I wish I was shooting! Also excuse for controversial remarks.

We so have to get together down in Ma. and compare some rifles. And visit your honeyhole!

Cheers,

Sirhr

acudaowner · Aug 12, 2021

must be fun sometimes sweat looking gun .

Defender3 · Aug 12, 2021

sirhrmechanic said:
@pmclaine ... some days I hate you. Because you have all the great stuff I want. And refuse to wear funny Marine Beanies!

What an amazing rifle. And guessing that you have some kind of ammo thing going on there. Because that rifle in your hands should be a hammer.

As for the picture above... when are people going to realize that is Not Carlos Hathcock...

Good on you, pal, for getting out in this heat. I hayed for 7 straight hours today in the sun. I feel like I've been on the Bataan Death March. Except that at the end of the day, I get beer and Pretzels. I wish I was shooting!

We so have to get together down in Ma. and compare some rifles. And visit your honeyhole!

Cheers,

Sirhr

Brother, I never said it was Carlos, and if you look at the link, clearly states it's LCpl Gunderson. Just trying to show the rifle in the wild, but I could have been clearer.

ETA - Unintentional thread derail, but didn't the NRA ID the shooter in the photo as Carlos in an article way back when???

sirhrmechanic · Aug 12, 2021

Defender3 said:
Brother, I never said it was Carlos, and if you look at the link, clearly states it's LCpl Gunderson. Just trying to show the rifle in the wild, but I could have been clearer.

ETA - Unintentional thread derail, but didn't the NRA ID the shooter in the photo as Carlos in an article way back when???

No worries my friend! Half the planet posts that image as Hathcock!

Not only NRA, but on book covers... in documentaries... in SH threads... in articles... on Websites... in Books... on T-Shirts... But a photo is a photo. Apparently "They all look the same" applies to snipers...

Sirhr

pmclaine · Aug 12, 2021

sirhrmechanic said:
@pmclaine ... some days I hate you. Because you have all the great stuff I want. And refuse to wear funny Marine Beanies!

What an amazing rifle. And guessing that you have some kind of ammo thing going on there. Because that rifle in your hands should be a hammer.

As for the picture above... when are people going to realize that is Not Carlos Hathcock...

Good on you, pal, for getting out in this heat. I hayed for 7 straight hours today in the sun. I feel like I've been on the Bataan Death March. Except that at the end of the day, I get beer and Pretzels. I wish I was shooting! Also excuse for controversial remarks.

We so have to get together down in Ma. and compare some rifles. And visit your honeyhole!

Cheers,

Sirhr

Ammo is the 52.2 load of 4350 under a 175 that has been shooting well for me.

Only difference is that this is in FC brass (Not Hornady) and I am using Fed 210s (Not WLRP).

That shouldnt be the issue as that load looks like it is in a good flat spot.

This is the brass I used to set up my sizing die though and it is marked "Varying headspace. Dispose after firing".

I did notice some bolt locks were stiffer than others. This might have caused some dispersion.

Charger442 · Aug 12, 2021

HAF??

*Laughs in 100 degree Texas heat*

Carlos Danger · Aug 12, 2021

Ahhhh yes. In my old screen name days.

pmclaine · Aug 12, 2021

Charger442 said:
HAF??

*Laughs in 100 degree Texas heat*

But I'm in a humid heat......

j-huskey · Aug 12, 2021

pmclaine said:
But I'm in a humid heat......

Pussy...

Flint62a1 · Aug 12, 2021

Sooooo, after insulting Momma Garand did that smartass at 700 get what was coming to it?

That is one sweet looking rifle, old school is the best school.

BullGear · Aug 12, 2021

Very nice rifle. Gunny would be very impressed at the workmanship. Accuracy, not so much...

TorF · Aug 13, 2021

How did they keep zero with those rifles in combat/field scenarioes???
I would be afraid to carry such a rifle from my car to the shooting stand..

pmclaine · Aug 13, 2021

Flint62a1 said:
Sooooo, after insulting Momma Garand did that smartass at 700 get what was coming to it?

That is one sweet looking rifle, old school is the best school.

His day is coming.....

pmclaine · Aug 13, 2021

BullGear said:
Accuracy, not so much...

It's there....just not yesterday.

Flint62a1 · Aug 13, 2021

TorF said:
How did they keep zero with those rifles in combat/field scenarioes???
I would be afraid to carry such a rifle from my car to the shooting stand..

Not just maintaining a zero, I wonder at how the scopes held up to the abuse they would inevitably suffer in combat conditions. The rifles yes, but these scopes? I am assuming they were left on the rifles while in transit? maybe someone here can clear that up.

pmclaine · Aug 13, 2021

Flint62a1 said:
Not just maintaining a zero, I wonder at how the scopes held up to the abuse they would inevitably suffer in combat conditions. The rifles yes, but these scopes? I am assuming they were left on the rifles while in transit? maybe someone here can clear that up.

The problem with them in the Pacific/Vietnam was the lack of sealing with inert gas. Fogging was the issue.

That and the fact many used commercial ones I see evidence exterior corrosion indicates to me humid climes were tough on them

@rth1800 and others with more use can proclaim how robust they are otherwise. Just keep it wiped down and clean....often difficult to do in combat.

RTH1800 · Aug 13, 2021

The field armorers utilized a hot box set up consisting of a small enclosed container with a light bulb to de fog the scopes and dry the rifles.

j-huskey · Aug 13, 2021

Flint62a1 said:
Not just maintaining a zero, I wonder at how the scopes held up to the abuse they would inevitably suffer in combat conditions. The rifles yes, but these scopes? I am assuming they were left on the rifles while in transit? maybe someone here can clear that up.

Transit deal...

Normally removed from rifles, big green tube attached on field pack..

Been a long time since I've seen such a tube, and the ebay price indicates the level of rarity now...

j-huskey · Aug 13, 2021

Flint62a1 said:
Not just maintaining a zero, I wonder at how the scopes held up to the abuse they would inevitably suffer in combat conditions. The rifles yes, but these scopes? I am assuming they were left on the rifles while in transit? maybe someone here can clear that up.

Those scopes went to Camp Perry and other matches in a wooden box, lined either with red or green cloth. Rifles went in padded cloth cases.
Had a loadout in those days.

Skunk · Aug 13, 2021

RTH1800 · Aug 13, 2021

Is that the bull gun?
looks great!
Thank You for posting.

candyx · Aug 13, 2021

Defender3 said:
Beautiful looking rifle. Have you tried the Hornady Garand load?

Still looks minute of dead, but the problem is you have all that fancy rest and bag shit, she wants to be au natural.

Its not the equipment its the operator who learns how to use it........

Skunk · Aug 14, 2021

rth1800 said:
Is that the bull gun?
looks great!
Thank You for posting.

Sure is! I couldn’t resist firing it. Only 10 rounds slung from 200yds, but it’s evident the rifle is incredibly accurate. Even with old 1968 Match ammo.

RTH1800 · Aug 14, 2021

I have sold literally hundreds of 70’s. Supergrade’s, Carbines, Target, Bullguns, Supergrade Carbines, Sniper’s Match rifles, Van Ordens, rare and uncataloged calibers etc. Only a couple stand out and that is one of them! Congratulations!

GrumpyOleFart · Aug 20, 2021

@pmclaine , have you thought of handloading for it.
Either way, that is a niiiice rifle.

2c1fr · Aug 20, 2021

GrumpyOleFart said:
@pmclaine , have you thought of handloading for it.
Either way, that is a niiiice rifle.

I believe he does when mentioned 52.2 grains of 4350 and multiple kinds of primers that’s reloading talk if I’ve ever heard it

GrumpyOleFart · Aug 21, 2021

Good point @2c1fr , I just look at the pictures, my lawyer checks the squiggly writing/words stuff.
☺

RHallenbeck · Aug 21, 2021

I have read several times that realistically the Model 70 Carlos used was probably a 1.5 - 2 MOA rifle.. Anyone know any for sure stats on that?

308pirate · Aug 21, 2021

Skunk said:
Sure is! I couldn’t resist firing it. Only 10 rounds slung from 200yds, but it’s evident the rifle is incredibly accurate. Even with old 1968 Match ammo.

Sitting or prone? Slow or rapid fire?

With a creedmoor coat I bet it's still competitive against all the 4X AR service rifles.

Skunk · Aug 21, 2021

That's prone, slow. In a t-shirt... I'm not a great shooter, but I think if I put on a coat and spent some time doing things right, and maybe swapped the front sight post insert for a ring/circle insert, I could shrink that group for sure.

308pirate · Aug 21, 2021

Skunk said:
I think if I put on a coat and spent some time doing things right, and maybe swapped the front sight post insert for a ring/circle insert, I could shrink that group for sure.

No doubt

pmclaine · Aug 21, 2021

RHallenbeck said:
I have read several times that realistically the Model 70 Carlos used was probably a 1.5 - 2 MOA rifle.. Anyone know any for sure stats on that?

At that time for that rifle....2 MOA would be a very capable military rifle.

Shooting has lost a lot of fun from the time when just knocking over the beer can was the goal.

Now you have to choose a letter on the can for the goal and the equipment will do it....often modern equipment is exceeding shooter skills.

In the past those shooters were likely held back by their equipment.

I know at present my rifles exceed my ability.

GrumpyOleFart · Aug 21, 2021

If I drop a shot, it's my cockup.
My rifles and handloads are pretty much exactly where I need them.
Whether it's misjudged wind or poor body alignment, the fault is with me.
Pretty hard to blame equipment anymore....☺

diggler1833 · Aug 26, 2021

Defender3 said:
Beautiful looking rifle. Have you tried the Hornady Garand load?

Still looks minute of dead, but the problem is you have all that fancy rest and bag shit, she wants to be au natural.

I'm late to the game and have nothing to contribute of quality...

However this damn photo right here is what caused me to have my one and only nasty scope cut. I was 14 years old. I'd just saved up neighborhood yard work money for 7-1/2 months and bought a 700 BDL in .30-06. My initial outing in the national forest with no rest at all showed some serious flaws in my shooting. Never realized how much my POA drifted during the firing sequence because I'd always shot iron sighted rifles.

I had a war history book that my older brother had given me, that had this photo in it. Remembering the position, I gave it a try at all of 120lbs soaking wet. Bam! Knocked the shit out of me, and I immediately had flies bugging the hell out of me, trying to land on my face. A few moments later I felt the trickle run down my nose. Reached up and brought blood away with my fingers.

pmclaine · Aug 26, 2021

diggler1833 said:
I'm late to the game and have nothing to contribute of quality...

However this damn photo right here is what caused me to have my one and only nasty scope cut. I was 14 years old. I'd just saved up neighborhood yard work money for 7-1/2 months and bought a 700 BDL in .30-06. My initial outing in the national forest with no rest at all showed some serious flaws in my shooting. Never realized how much my POA drifted during the firing sequence because I'd always shot iron sighted rifles.

I had a war history book that my older brother had given me, that had this photo in it. Remembering the position, I gave it a try at all of 120lbs soaking wet. Bam! Knocked the shit out of me, and I immediately had flies bugging the hell out of me, trying to land on my face. A few moments later I felt the trickle run down my nose. Reached up and brought blood away with my fingers.

How did the second shot go?

pitspitr · Aug 26, 2021

pmclaine said:
How did the second shot go?

It's all about priorities, right,

diggler1833 · Aug 26, 2021

pmclaine said:
How did the second shot go?

I had a record-setting flinch for the next four years...

sirhrmechanic · Aug 26, 2021

GrumpyOleFart said:
If I drop a shot, it's my cockup.
My rifles and handloads are pretty much exactly where I need them.
Whether it's misjudged wind or poor body alignment, the fault is with me.
Pretty hard to blame equipment anymore....☺

I can usually tell if I fucked up before the bullet hits the paper. I know when I pull or screw up a trigger break.

I don’t think I have had a miss or a flyer in decades that was the guns fault. Last time, in fact, was a 700 BDL Varmint Remington that had a wood stock so prone to warping that the gun never held poi. Put it in a synthetic stock… problem went away instantly.

It’s almost never the gun….

Sirhr

GrumpyOleFart · Aug 27, 2021

Even the bargain basement rifle manufacturers make pretty good rifles now.
Cheap nasty Norinco's and the likes, shoot pretty fricken good.

pmclaine · Aug 27, 2021

diggler1833 said:
I had a record-setting flinch for the next four years...

Tell it to Serbu owners....

diggler1833 · Aug 27, 2021

pmclaine said:
Tell it to Serbu owners....

That right there is how people get into NRL 22 matches...Change my mind.

pmclaine · Aug 27, 2021

diggler1833 said:
That right there is how people get into NRL 22 matches...Change my mind.

Serbu has a .22 magnum NRL design.....its a McDonalds straw, paper of course, with a spitball for a breech block.

Insert mag round, replace spitball, squeeze straw with included needle nose pliers to fire...

GrumpyOleFart · Aug 27, 2021

A very good example of why I'm not interested in single shot screwy thingies.
At least he lived to tell the tale.

sandwarrior · Aug 29, 2021

pmclaine said:
Another HAF!, half day....M70 at 300 yards.

In the shade...

Not super impressed....this ammo has some issues but explanations are just whining....all 20 on paper though so that positive.

As I was leaving this motherfucker yelled out........

"Your M1A's Mom is a whore!"

Who says that about Mrs Garand?

He fucked around, hes gonna find out..........

As usual pmc, great pics of old school rifle and shooting. I always enjoy it when you post up your old school collection complete with groups. Any HAF day is harder to shoot in than a nice 70 deg. slightly overcast day. But, you always make the best of what you've got.

And, while true that equipment has gotten better, the competition has gotten better too. I shoot F-class and little mistakes are huge when going against really good shooters. A loss of a few kernels when reloading can drop you from a 10 to a nine, or even an 8. That's going from an X to a ten in regular shooting. When your goal is 1/2 moa and other guys are hitting it, you don't get much wiggle room.

BTW, I did pretty good at a 'coyote' shoot we had yesterday. 18 shots for score @300 yds. I shot a perfect score (180-9X) for 4th place. I hit all tens and X's. But, the guys shooting the bonus points were winning. The X is a 3" orange sticky, with the 10 an oval of 6" x 4" around it. The bonus is 20 pts. A 2" orange sticky center of head, and 3" x 4" oval around it for ten. Miss left and it's a miss. Right, low, and high, it's a 5. But, not a lot of room around it. You can shoot bipod or sandbag with no rear rest. No mechanical rest like F-class. My second relay I shot a 225. I missed the 20 half the time and completely once. (9 twenties, 1-10, 7-5's, and a miss). Still didn't beat the best score on that relay of 240.

tuckybill · Sep 2, 2021

PMC check the webbing in the stock that is in front of the trigger. Over half the pre 64s I look at have cracked there and it helps to repair or glue it. Even some that do not look cracked have a hairline there. Check it with good light and young eyes.

r.tenorio671 · Oct 19, 2021

Defender3 said:
Beautiful looking rifle. Have you tried the Hornady Garand load?

Still looks minute of dead, but the problem is you have all that fancy rest and bag shit, she wants to be au natural.

...LOL, if I tried to assume that firing position nowadays...the ambulance folks would be picking me in that exact same position when they put me in the ambulance...

hlee · Oct 20, 2021

Charger442 said:
HAF??

*Laughs in 100 degree Texas heat*

pmclaine said:
But I'm in a humid heat......

Laughs in Houstonian...

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