Remember how we do not negotiate with terrorists?

TheGerman · Aug 29, 2021

Well, uh, yeah

Could have been so simple and straightforward.

- Identify the transpo logistics of what it would take to get everyone in each base out. Set a timetable and constantly check it. Meeting/not meeting timed goals would/would not have you initiate the next level of draw down.

- Initiate a structured draw down to close FOBS/COPS/FBs, etc out in the middle of nowhere and have the units and equipment recycle back to whatever main installation they are 'attached to.

- Only initiate operations that will keep/push any enemy activity away from those installations as well as task them to cover the draw downs at outside FOBS.

- Issue a 'Kessel Order' for all of the large logistical installations. Adjust ROE to basically 'no one comes close to here or we blow you up'.

- Systematic logistical airlift evacuations at the larger installations to constantly have personnel not 'guarding the castle' or performing rear guard draw down operations out. Keep these running in line with the time table to initiate the next phase(s) of draw downs.

- Begin demo of any assets/equipment deemed to be left behind as they come in

- Once the only people left were the guys holding down the fort and everyone/everything else was accounted for, initiate destruction/disabling the installations (i.e. destroy runways, buildings, etc)

You would have known, if I were the base commander, that we had left Bagram because you would have been able to see the fire from 10 miles away.

Instead, we're negotiating with the fucking taliban of who is going to 'protect' what while we're there. The worst part is, we totally did this to ourselves; there was ZERO reason we needed to GTFO like a meth junkie who was just told the cops were coming.

BullGear · Aug 29, 2021

I don't trust anything coming from anyone within the US government. This entire situation has been FUBAR'd since the beginning.

91Eunozs · Aug 29, 2021

BullGear said:
I don't trust anything coming from anyone within the US government. This entire situation has been FUBAR'd since the beginning.

Or … as I fear… on purpose

SilentStalkr · Aug 29, 2021

91Eunozs said:
Or … as I fear… on purpose

Your thoughts on that purpose?

SilentStalkr · Aug 30, 2021

We have to be careful about how we respond to any of this. Any hint of some kind of treason crap or mil takeover or coup or civil unrest will cause upset in the markets AKA the trust in the Americans to make good and what keeps us the world currency could fold quickly and if that happens, it’s all over.

91Eunozs · Aug 30, 2021

SilentStalkr said:
Your thoughts on that purpose?

Read Saul Alinski’s rules for radicals… We’re literally watching it play out before our eyes

Mr.BR · Aug 30, 2021

Three-letter agencies employ terrorists in numbers second only to Gulf monarchies.

Otherwise lets not forget that at the height of their terror in the 1997 Taliban were honorable guests in US , dealing with Texas gas and oil tycoons, they even got to visit the NASA space center.

''12/14/1997
Oil barons court Taliban in Texas By Caroline Lees

THE Taliban, Afghanistan's Islamic fundamentalist army, is about to sign a £2 billion contract with an American oil company to build a pipeline across the war-torn country.

The Islamic warriors appear to have been persuaded to close the deal, not through delicate negotiation but by old-fashioned Texan hospitality. Last week Unocal, the Houston-based company bidding to build the 876-mile pipeline from Turkmenistan to Pakistan, invited the Taliban to visit them in Texas. Dressed in traditional salwar khameez, Afghan waistcoats and loose, black turbans, the high-ranking delegation was given VIP treatment during the four-day stay.

The Taliban ministers and their advisers stayed in a five-star hotel and were chauffeured in a company minibus. Their only requests were to visit Houston's zoo, the Nasa space centre and Omaha's Super Target discount store to buy stockings, toothpaste, combs and soap. The Taliban, which controls two-thirds of Afghanistan and is still fighting for the last third, was also given an insight into how the other half lives.''

Context of 'December 4, 1997: Taliban Representatives Visit Unocal in Texas'

Texas Taliban 1997

SilentStalkr · Aug 30, 2021

91Eunozs said:
Read Saul Alinski’s rules for radicals… We’re literally watching it play out before our eyes

Yes, but I’m looking for your opinion on what the end game is, not what it seems like. What do you truly think the point is of all this? You think it’s to usher in communism here?

HeavyAssault · Aug 30, 2021

And just like the Cuba situation just fades away.......

theLBC · Aug 30, 2021

theLBC · Aug 30, 2021

308pirate · Aug 30, 2021

SilentStalkr said:
We have to be careful about how we respond to any of this. Any hint of some kind of treason crap or mil takeover or coup or civil unrest will cause upset in the markets AKA the trust in the Americans to make good and what keeps us the world currency could fold quickly and if that happens, it’s all over.

Burn it all down

Dead Eye Dick · Aug 30, 2021

BullGear said:
I don't trust anything coming from anyone within the US government. This entire situation has been FUBAR'd since the beginning.

This is supposed to be”our” government, made up of, and representing citizens of the United States of America. This is supposed to be “our” government, made up of, and representing citizens of the United States of America. This is supposed to be “our” government, made up of, and representing citizens of the United States of America. This is supposed to be “our” government, made up of, and representing citizens of the United States of America. This is supposed to be “our” government, made up of, and representing citizens of the United States of America.

What is wrong with what you said? Why is it true? Why do I have to keep repeating myself, thinking that this is supposed to be “our” government made up of, and representing citizens of the United States of America.

Who is in charge when the individual (who is supposed to be) in charge replies to a question about Afghanistan with this answer...”I am not supposed to take questions.”

theLBC · Aug 30, 2021

GreenGO Juan · Aug 30, 2021

That all changed in September 1986, when a newly trained mujahideen missile team fired its first Stingers at three Soviet Mi-24 Hind helicopter gunships attempting to land at Jalalabad airfield. Locked onto the infra-red signatures of their targets, the five-foot-long, 35-pound missiles raced after the ill-fated helicopters at speeds of over 1,500 mph, smashing into them with "the kinetic force of a mid-sized car traveling at sixty miles per hour," according to a 1987 article in the Arizona Republic. The stricken helicopters fell to the ground and burst into flames, marking the advent of a new chapter in the war.

Over the next three years, the mujahideen, who received Stingers from Washington and extensive training on their use in Pakistan, staged dozens of attacks that brought down nearly 270 aircraft, contributing in no small part to the Soviet Union’s decision to withdraw from Afghanistan in 1989. While no single factor can be credited for the triumph of a rag-tag militia over the formidable Soviet military, the Stinger missile was a game-changer, destroying hundreds of multi-million-dollar Soviet aircraft, killing dozens of highly trained pilots, and disrupting and degrading Soviet counter insurgency operations throughout the country. So pervasive was the Stinger’s influence on events in Afghanistan that analysts coined a term around it: "the Stinger effect."

GreenGO Juan · Aug 30, 2021

Details on the classified program remain scant, but the information that is available suggests that, despite rewards of $100,000 or more for each device, the CIA failed to recover many if not most of the loose Stingers. Government officials interviewed by author Steve Coll for his book Ghost Warsclaim that an estimated 600 of the Afghan Stingers were still missing as of 1996. Some of the missing missiles ended up in the hands of terrorists, insurgents, and hostile governments as far away as North Korea and Sri Lanka, but many remained squirreled away in rebel arms caches. As recently as 2005, Stingers were seized from a cache near the Pakistan border, and incidents of trafficking in Stinger components have been reported as recently as 2006.

GreenGO Juan · Aug 30, 2021

Relations between Afghanistan and the United States began in 1921 under the leaderships of Amanullah Khan and Warren G. Harding, respectively.[1] The first contact between the two nations occurred further back in the 1830s when the first recorded person from the United States explored Afghanistan.[2] The United States began investing some money in landlocked Afghanistan,[1] which ended before the 1978 Saur Revolution. Beginning in 1980, the United States began admitting thousands of Afghan refugees for resettlement, and provided money and weapons to the Mujahideen through Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).

This has been goin on for years. Where was Bin Laden found????

GreenGO Juan · Aug 30, 2021

ISI... ISIS-K....

GreenGO Juan · Aug 30, 2021

HeavyAssault · Aug 30, 2021

Cause Stinger missiles use what kind of power source??

rlsmith1 · Aug 30, 2021

If only we hadn't broadcast to the world we wanted to be out by Sept 11.

I'm just pissed all those NVGs are over there instead of being sold as surplus. Better to equip your enemy than your own people I guess...?

Mr.BR · Aug 30, 2021

No need to advertise, US signed a surrender in Doha, after that GTFO operation was on. considering US military leadership competence that literally meant everybody run for your lives, men first, women and children last.

deersniper · Aug 30, 2021

rlsmith1 said:
If only we hadn't broadcast to the world we wanted to be out by Sept 11.

I'm just pissed all those NVGs are over there instead of being sold as surplus. Better to equip your enemy than your own people I guess...?

You are the enemy of most of .gov

Get back to work tax slave

rlsmith1 · Aug 30, 2021

@deersniper yes I will do what is good for the collective and stop thinking for myself

91Eunozs · Aug 30, 2021

SilentStalkr said:
Yes, but I’m looking for your opinion on what the end game is, not what it seems like. What do you truly think the point is of all this? You think it’s to usher in communism here?

Short version, yes.

But it’s a lot more complicated than that. And without going into details I simply don’t have the time…or the inclination …to go into on a public forum, will say that I hope it’s a simple matter of them believing they can control the fall into socialism. I think some on the left truly believe it’ll be “Just like Sweden” when everything’s said and done.

Instead, we’re well on the path to something more akin to what we’re currently watching bottom out in Venezuela, but I think it’ll be much, much worse.

Watch the currency manipulation/devaluation of the American dollar (always follow the money). Combine that with domestic and foreign policy that exponentially increases the strain on the system and you have a perfect scenario where ‘the system’ is attacked from both ends. This can only end one way, as it has for the entirety of human history…from the Romans, up through the Weimar Republic and Robert Mugabe’s Zimbabwe. Unchecked (intentional even?) inflation and spending always ends poorly.

This time they’ve added unchecked immigration to increase the resource drain, direct support of radical left groups with published agendas that in a sane world should frighten them, and other policies that frankly are anti-American by design. This is not accidental.

Plan accordingly.

Rant Durden · Aug 30, 2021

What’s that saying, my enemies enemy or some shit like that?
I think our new terrorist allies, the Taliban are going to have their hands full with special-k.
Just like we learned, insurgents don’t need to win, they just need to not lose.
The Taliban is now the dominant political and military force in Afghanistan. Special-K are the insurgents and far more radical.
I would not be surprised at another Afghan civil war, but who is going to get called to help out?
China would help the Taliban, but would we???

Mr.BR · Aug 30, 2021

Rant Durden said:
What’s that saying, my enemies enemy or some shit like that?
I think our new terrorist allies, the Taliban are going to have their hands full with special-k.
Just like we learned, insurgents don’t need to win, they just need to not lose.
The Taliban is now the dominant political and military force in Afghanistan. Special-K are the insurgents and far more radical.
I would not be surprised at another Afghan civil war, but who is going to get called to help out?
China would help the Taliban, but would we???

US already provided CAS for Taliban against ISI-K in the past ,and this will continue in the future , according to Doha accords taliban might even get funded for fight against ISI-K
Like it or not Taliban are now US no.1 ally in the country .

lariat · Aug 30, 2021

Mr.BR said:
US already provided CAS for Taliban against ISI-K ,and this will continue in the future , according to Doha accords taliban might even get funded for fight agains ISI-K
Like it or not Taliban are now US no.1 ally in the country .

If your algebra is correct it adds up to something terrible. By extension it means we in some way knowingly armed the TB for a future conflict and would use them as our allies. But this also now means that we have armed the TB to hold ISIS-KLMNOP back from blowing up the Chinese and their interests in the region. So we are now de-facto supporting China who desires to destroy us and are is in a position to do it via financial means; we are additionally by default supporting their belt and road initiative while saying we will support India who is being cut off and Taiwan who is about to get fucked. And all of the armaments were handed over to the TB who would serve as a middleman to the Chinese - if the TB is our ally this is a must in the equation because everyone, even my retard dog knew this was going to happen - the TB like money, and the Chinese like to steal technology. So we willingly and knowingly gave state secrets away to a competing government, one that has our downfall as a main interest.

If you REALLY believe and have thought through your comment you are now fully stating the the intentions of the USG is traitorous and meant to destroy the US and sever its ties with allies. I find this hard to swallow. I will reverse my stance when a training and maintenance contract emerges for aircraft in AFG.

This fiasco was either unintentional via stupidity and the spinelessness of no one willing to say no to it or it was intentional. It cannot be both. Your last comment needs some clarity just so we all know what you are implying.

Nik H · Aug 30, 2021

Mr.BR · Aug 30, 2021

lariat said:
If your algebra is correct it adds up to something terrible. By extension it means we in some way knowingly armed the TB for a future conflict and would use them as our allies. But this also now means that we have armed the TB to hold ISIS-KLMNOP back from blowing up the Chinese and their interests in the region. So we are now de-facto supporting China who desires to destroy us and are is in a position to do it via financial means; we are additionally by default supporting their belt and road initiative while saying we will support India who is being cut off and Taiwan who is about to get fucked. And all of the armaments were handed over to the TB who would serve as a middleman to the Chinese - if the TB is our ally this is a must in the equation because everyone, even my retard dog knew this was going to happen - the TB like money, and the Chinese like to steal technology. So we willingly and knowingly gave state secrets away to a competing government, one that has our downfall as a main interest.

If you REALLY believe and have thought through your comment you are now fully stating the the intentions of the USG is to destroy the US and sever its ties with allies. I find this hard to swallow.

This fiasco was either unintentional via stupidity and no one willing to say no to it or it was intentional. It cannot be both. Your last comment needs some clarity.

Taliban is no threat to US or anyone outside Afghanistan , ISI-K on the other hand is , and powers that be have known that long ago. US conducted drone strikes on ISIS in dirrect support of Taliban, and in regards to last two drone strikes in Kabul you can be near certain intel came from the Taliban.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/22/taliban-isis-drones-afghanistan/

lariat · Aug 30, 2021

Mr.BR said:
Taliban is no threat to US or even anyone outisde Afghanistan , ISI-K on the other hand is , and powers that be have known that long ago.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/10/22/taliban-isis-drones-afghanistan/

That's not even in the picture. You are avoiding the question. Leaving the equipment intentionally is supporting the Taliban is supporting China. Supporting China is fucking ourselves and our allies.

Are you proposing that the USG did this on purpose?

If the TB is not our enemy, then why are they stoning the first woman AFG pilot, cutting out the tongues of terps, killing friendlies, and soon to be hunting down the remaining Americans? That seems to be a threat, or at least someone who bears a grudge. If they are not our enemies then why are they now working with the Chinese and selling them our equipment? Why are they blaming the suicide bombing on Americans on twitter if we are such good buds?

Mr.BR · Aug 30, 2021

Muslims doing Muslim shit , that is none of our concern. Every time you get defeated there are reprisals going to happen, which happened in aftermath of WW2, Vietnam, Algeria, Iran,Iraq, Afghanistan, Colombia, Salvador, Chile...... that is like Tuesday when it comes to toppling a government. There will be some killing done that is no doubt, but likely not on the scale seen previously, they still need international recognition and $$ .

What you are seeing now it just being propagandized more than killings in 2001 or do you think the 2001 toppling of the Taliban went much different?Do you think Nothern Alliance warlords did not settle scores ? Don't be childish.

When you arm an army that then collapses leaving equipment behind is unavoidable how much is just a question of the collapsed militaries size, always happens,it also happened when Soviet-supported DRA fell , look at Iran still flying them F14s .

Taliban and Chinese have nothing to do with each other, except being the new head honchos in Kabul they are the ones you need to do Business in Afghanistan.

Rant Durden · Aug 30, 2021

Did we “leave” equipment or did we supply an army that could not possibly employ the equipment we provided?
My guess is 90% of the shit listed as “left” was ANA property that some military contractors had a 500% mark up on.
That doesn’t necessarily mean we should have left it there, but at what point should we have taken their shit away?
It’s one thing to say we’re going home, it’s quite another to disarm what was left of the ANA.
Matt Taibbii has some great insight into this debacle on Substack. The main crux is a whole bunch of folks got filthy rich selling and building shit over there that wasn’t needed, asked for and wouldn’t have been used. This war was a financial boondoggle that made many folks (sloppy sleepy Joe’s brother) and defense contractors very rich.
Now the media is trying to divide us into camps again to distract us from that reality.

lariat · Aug 30, 2021

Rant Durden said:
Did we “leave” equipment or did we supply an army that could not possibly employ the equipment we provided?
My guess is 90% of the shit listed as “left” was ANA property that some military contractors had a 500% mark up on.
That doesn’t necessarily mean we should have left it there, but at what point should we have taken their shit away?
It’s one thing to say we’re going home, it’s quite another to disarm what was left of the ANA.
Matt Taibbii has some great insight into this debacle on Substack. The main crux is a whole bunch of folks got filthy rich selling and building shit over there that wasn’t needed, asked for and wouldn’t have been used. This war was a financial boondoggle that made many folks (sloppy sleepy Joe’s brother) and defense contractors very rich.
Now the media is trying to divide us into camps again to distract us from that reality.

This is a good perspective and worth considering. It does beg a question that may not be relevant now, but if that is the case how much of the equipment was purchased by the Afghan government with money we provided? We know that they money we have been sending over for the AFG troops wasn't getting to them. And we were paying the maintenance crews to keep up the aircraft and we pulled them out, even if the Afghans did buy the birds. Its a soup sandwich.

lariat · Aug 30, 2021

Mr.BR said:
Muslims doing Muslim shit , that is none of our concern. Every time you get defeated there are reprisals going to happen, which happened in aftermath of WW2, Vietnam, Algeria, Iran,Iraq, Afghanistan, Colombia, Salvador, Chile...... that is like Tuesday when it comes to toppling a government. There will be some killing done that is no doubt, but likely not on the scale seen previously, they still need international recognition and $$ .

What you are seeing now it just being propagandized more than killings in 2001 or do you think the 2001 toppling of the Taliban went much different?Do you think Nothern Alliance warlords did not settle scores ? Don't be childish.

When you arm an army that then collapses leaving equipment behind is unavoidable how much is just a question of the collapsed militaries size, always happens,it also happened when Soviet-supported DRA fell , look at Iran still flying them F14s .

Taliban and Chinese have nothing to do with each other, except being the new head honchos in Kabul they are the ones you need to do Business in Afghanistan.

No shit. Still not answering.

E. Bryant · Aug 30, 2021

This was a stupid plan pushed by an idiot and backed by a pussy. The only surprise is that it somehow didn't end even worse.

I hope we remember this debacle when Mike Pompeo gets his push as a 2024 presidential candidate.

Rant Durden · Aug 30, 2021

I would say all or the vast majority of of the money came from US taxpayers to pay US defense contractors as well as civilian contractors to provide weapons and build schools, hospitals etc. There are very credible reports of ANA commanders creating phantom units and getting money for training, equipment and pay. Yea, we paid for all that shit and the swamp people in several countries benefited greatly.
Ike was right way back in the day and now we have military brass giving talking points on the msm that come directly from the military industrial complex.
The lack of oversight isn’t a mistake, it’s but into the system so folks keep getting paid.
My concern is the region will become a proxy war between the US and China.
The companies, our military and our crack national intelligence agencies need this to happen.
I doubt the CCP would risk the economic consequences of a shooting war with any western power.
But another Cold War would be good for business.
Almost all of our politicians are scum and either enriching themselves, their family or their friends.
We need term limits and a no lobbying contract for ALL elected politicians and senior government officials.

This is a good perspective and worth considering. It does beg a question that may not be relevant now, but if that is the case how much of the equipment was purchased by the Afghan government with money we provided? We know that they money we have been sending over for the AFG troops wasn't getting to them. And we were paying the maintenance crews to keep up the aircraft and we pulled them out, even if the Afghans did buy the birds. Its a soup sandwich.

GreenGO Juan · Aug 30, 2021

candyx · Aug 30, 2021

Why even waste time trying to figure out the smoke and mirrors, its just an accounting problem how to best maximize profits. It has always been about the dollars plain and simple. Our political leaders are just puppets, no one will ever get to the players who pull the actual strings.

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Remember how we do not negotiate with terrorists?

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