Suppressors Thunder Beast tests some larger OD 30 cal cans

TBACRAY · Oct 6, 2021

I've been wanting to shoot this video for a while now. Here you go!
23" bolt gun with LR118. I threw in the numbers for our Gen 2 Ultra 9 also since it's the largest 30 cal can we make ( it does meter very well for the size)
Thanks to Otter Creek Labs and FMP for sending cans.

Otter Creek PR30L
MR-131.0, 130.1,128.5,129.8,131.1 Avg-130.25
ML- 130.6,128.1,127.3,129.4,129.6 Avg- 129
MR/ML Avg-129.6
SE- 124.0,122.7,122.2,124.7,122.7 Avg-123.3

FPM Gunworks Dirty D
MR- 133.6,130.8,130.3,130.9,129.0 Avg-130.9
ML- 130.5,127.6,129.9,129.5,130.4 Avg-129.6
MR/ML Avg- 130.3
SE- 124.2,123.4,123.7,125.2,123.3 Avg- 123.9

CGS Hyperion
MR- 129.4,128.9,128.7,129.0,130.5 Avg-129.3
ML- 129.5,129.4,128.7,127.1,127.8 Avg-128.5
MR/ML Avg-128.9
SE- 125.9,124.1,122.0,123.0,123.9 Avg- 123.8

DA Nomad LT
MR- 128.9,127.2,126.6,127.7,129.2 Avg-127.9
ML- 128.1,127.0,128.5,129.6,128.1 Avg- 128.3
MR/ML Avg- 128.1
SE- 122.3,123.4,122.8,123.6,122.0 Avg- 122.8

Q Thunder Chicken
MR- 141.0,138.3,138.1,136.8,138.7 Avg- 138.6
ML- 141.0, 138.8,138.4,137.6,139.8 Avg- 139.1
MR/ML Avg- 138.8
SE- 130.0,129.1,129.2,129.2,127.7 Avg- 128.9

338 Ultra
MR-131.1,131.4,129.4,129.3,130.6 Avg- 130.3
ML-130.8,129,9,130.0,129.1,131.3 Avg- 130.2
MR/ML Avg-130.3
SE- 123.9,123.5,124.5,124.4,123.2 Avg-123.9

Gen 2 Ultra 9 Shot 10-15 minutes later Will post separate video
MR- 135.1, 135.0,133.9,133.9,135.3 Avg- 134.6
ML- 133.1,131.0,131.0,131.4,132.1 Avg- 131.7
MR/ML Avg- 133.2
SE- 124.9,124.9,125.3,125.8,124.8 Avg- 125.1

AndrewKing · Oct 6, 2021

Dang, that Q can is loud

Secant · Oct 6, 2021

AndrewKing said:
Dang, that Q can is loud

#engineering

Clayman · Oct 6, 2021

TBACRAY said:
I've been wanting to shoot this video for a while now. Here you go!
23" bolt gun with LR118. I threw in the numbers for our Gen 2 Ultra 9 also since it's the largest 30 cal can we make ( it does meter very well for the size)
Thanks to Otter Creek Labs and FMP for sending cans.

Great video.

I remember when Andrew posted this and you said the Nomad L is on the top step. I've got to hear the Hyperion and my Nomad side by side. They sounded very close, I thought the Hyperion might be a bit quieter but the Nomad being 1.1" shorter and getting those results are impressive. I've been very happy with mine. It also sounds excellent on 300 blk.

Clayman · Oct 6, 2021

AndrewKing said:
Dang, that Q can is loud

Lightest, quietest and lowest back pressure

AndrewKing · Oct 6, 2021

Clayman said:
Great video.

I remember when Andrew posted this and you said the Nomad L is on the top step. I've got to hear the Hyperion and my Nomad side by side. They sounded very close, I thought the Hyperion might be a bit quieter but the Nomad being 1.1" shorter and getting those results are impressive. I've been very happy with mine. It also sounds excellent on 300 blk.

This is still the greatest suppressor meme of all time and I will stand by it

E. Bryant · Oct 6, 2021

The data suggests that this market segment has approached some reasonable level of maturity. Well, other than Q

Because I like underdogs, special props to the Otter Creek guys. (Er, guy? Or at least Andrew and his daughter.) And props as well to TBAC for its continued transparency.

Clayman · Oct 6, 2021

AndrewKing said:
This is still the greatest suppressor meme of all time and I will stand by it

It really is, I was laughing so hard when you posted that and again when Alabama Arsenal added it to his video review of your can.

AndrewKing · Oct 6, 2021

E. Bryant said:
The data suggests that this market segment has approached some reasonable level of maturity. Well, other than Q

Because I like underdogs, special props to the Otter Creek guys. (Er, guy?) And props as well to TBAC for its continued transparency.

Everyone gets along super well, talks often, helps each other out, etc. Except for Kevin. He chooses to be that way though, it doesn’t have to be that way. Many of us have TRIED to be his friend.
I’m the otter creek labs guy. I think the world of Ray, Mike, Todd, Bobby, Josh, the EA guys, etc. I look up to them immensely. It’s an honor to see my name up along side theirs. When I was getting my welder set up and dialing in some processes I was unfamiliar with they all helped me out which was super awesome of them.
Not out to beef or be in competition with anyone. I just want to make cool stuff and chill

jzerfoss · Oct 6, 2021

@TBACRAY Do you think the 338 ultra would do as good or better with 30 cal magnums with the extra volume against the same cans? Also have you compared your cans with brake adapter vs flash hider adapter? Just thinking the brakes would have a baffle like affect (especially the 338BA brake) but I wouldn't know. I do know the 338 ultra is the quietest can to my ear compared to the dozens of cans I've heard shooting and ROing matches.

FuhQ · Oct 6, 2021

TBACRAY said:
I've been wanting to shoot this video for a while now. Here you go!
23" bolt gun with LR118. I threw in the numbers for our Gen 2 Ultra 9 also since it's the largest 30 cal can we make ( it does meter very well for the size)
Thanks to Otter Creek Labs and FMP for sending cans.

Otter Creek PR30L
MR-131.0, 130.1,128.5,129.8,131.1 Avg-130.25
ML- 130.6,128.1,127.3,129.4,129.6 Avg- 129
MR/ML Avg-129.6
SE- 124.0,122.7,122.2,124.7,122.7 Avg-123.3

FMP Dirty D
MR- 133.6,130.8,130.3,130.9,129.0 Avg-130.9
ML- 130.5,127.6,129.9,129.5,130.4 Avg-129.6
MR/ML Avg- 130.3
SE- 124.2,123.4,123.7,125.2,123.3 Avg- 123.9

CGS Hyperion
MR- 129.4,128.9,128.7,129.0,130.5 Avg-129.3
ML- 129.5,129.4,128.7,127.1,127.8 Avg-128.5
MR/ML Avg-128.9
SE- 125.9,124.1,122.0,123.0,123.9 Avg- 123.8

DA Nomad LT
MR- 128.9,127.2,126.6,127.7,129.2 Avg-127.9
ML- 128.1,127.0,128.5,129.6,128.1 Avg- 128.3
MR/ML Avg- 128.1
SE- 122.3,123.4,122.8,123.6,122.0 Avg- 122.8

Q Thunder Chicken
MR- 141.0,138.3,138.1,136.8,138.7 Avg- 138.6
ML- 141.0, 138.8,138.4,137.6,139.8 Avg- 139.1
MR/ML Avg- 138.8
SE- 130.0,129.1,129.2,129.2,127.7 Avg- 128.9

338 Ultra
MR-131.1,131.4,129.4,129.3,130.6 Avg- 130.3
ML-130.8,129,9,130.0,129.1,131.3 Avg- 130.2
MR/ML Avg-130.3
SE- 123.9,123.5,124.5,124.4,123.2 Avg-123.9

Gen 2 Ultra 9 Shot 10-15 minutes later Will post separate video
MR- 135.1, 135.0,133.9,133.9,135.3 Avg- 134.6
ML- 133.1,131.0,131.0,131.4,132.1 Avg- 131.7
MR/ML Avg- 133.2
SE- 124.9,124.9,125.3,125.8,124.8 Avg- 125.1

Thanks for posting honest and unbiased results Ray. Always had a lot of respect for you and your testing style on YT. You always shoot it straight.

This validates everything I've been saying about my Nomad-LT being the quietest can I've ever heard in person. Makes sense now. It's the quietest can yall tested. I see that 338 Ultra and Gen2 Ultra-9 are cutting is REAL close, too.

FuhQ · Oct 6, 2021

AndrewKing said:
Everyone gets along super well, talks often, helps each other out, etc. Except for Kevin. He chooses to be that way though, it doesn’t have to be that way. Many of us have TRIED to be his friend.
I’m the otter creek labs guy. I think the world of Ray, Mike, Todd, Bobby, Josh, the EA guys, etc. I look up to them immensely. It’s an honor to see my name up along side theirs. When I was getting my welder set up and dialing in some processes I was unfamiliar with they all helped me out which was super awesome of them.
Not out to beef or be in competition with anyone. I just want to make cool stuff and chill

Kevin is a douche. I've talked to him several times... One of the biggest reasons I refused to buy AAC stuff, and now Q stuff.

Yoteski · Oct 7, 2021

I know this is subjective, but could you tell which can had the least felt recoil? Looking at the video, it appeared the Ultra 338 had a softer recoil impulse, but it was hard to tell.

TBACRAY · Oct 7, 2021

jzerfoss said:
@TBACRAY Do you think the 338 ultra would do as good or better with 30 cal magnums with the extra volume against the same cans? Also have you compared your cans with brake adapter vs flash hider adapter? Just thinking the brakes would have a baffle like affect (especially the 338BA brake) but I wouldn't know. I do know the 338 ultra is the quietest can to my ear compared to the dozens of cans I've heard shooting and ROing matches.

The 338 Ultra was made for a higher volume of gas. Shrinking the bore would pick up a couple dB.
I have metered brake v flash hider in the past with no measurable difference.

E. Bryant · Oct 7, 2021

AndrewKing said:
Everyone gets along super well, talks often, helps each other out, etc. Except for Kevin. He chooses to be that way though, it doesn’t have to be that way. Many of us have TRIED to be his friend.
I’m the otter creek labs guy. I think the world of Ray, Mike, Todd, Bobby, Josh, the EA guys, etc. I look up to them immensely. It’s an honor to see my name up along side theirs. When I was getting my welder set up and dialing in some processes I was unfamiliar with they all helped me out which was super awesome of them.
Not out to beef or be in competition with anyone. I just want to make cool stuff and chill

Congrats on your success so far - it's been very cool to watch your company progress and your product mature.

Props are also due for this absolutely savage post:

_Windrider_ · Oct 7, 2021

Q. Made by autistic people for autistic people. Guy is a jackass.

CaptArab · Oct 7, 2021

Nomad LT < Hyperion.
That'll shatter the internet

Reload10 · Oct 8, 2021

How would the dominus sr meter? ~132 to 135?

TBACRAY · Oct 8, 2021

I'll get it on the same gun next week

HenryTheAce · Oct 10, 2021

AndrewKing said:
Everyone gets along super well, talks often, helps each other out, etc. Except for Kevin. He chooses to be that way though, it doesn’t have to be that way. Many of us have TRIED to be his friend.
I’m the otter creek labs guy. I think the world of Ray, Mike, Todd, Bobby, Josh, the EA guys, etc. I look up to them immensely. It’s an honor to see my name up along side theirs. When I was getting my welder set up and dialing in some processes I was unfamiliar with they all helped me out which was super awesome of them.
Not out to beef or be in competition with anyone. I just want to make cool stuff and chill

This makes me want to buy an otter creek can and why I’ve never owned Q nor will.. do you all make a big bore can? 45-46 caliber?

Steel head · Oct 10, 2021

Clayman said:

AndrewKing · Oct 10, 2021

HenryTheAce said:
This makes me want to buy an otter creek can and why I’ve never owned Q nor will.. do you all make a big bore can? 45-46 caliber?

No sir not right now. Maybe in the future. I’m not against it! From where we’re small and struggling to keep up with production as is I don’t want to add anything new until we can get some more machines and maybe hire a guy or two

HenryTheAce · Oct 10, 2021

AndrewKing said:
No sir not right now. Maybe in the future. I’m not against it! From where we’re small and struggling to keep up with production as is I don’t want to add anything new until we can get some more machines and maybe hire a guy or two

I hear ya!! Been dreaming of and wanting a titanium 45 caliber rifle purpose can. Glad to see ya’ll are pumping out silencers and doing good!

BuildingConceptsllc · Oct 10, 2021

Its really cool to see the different cans and the different manufacturers and it just being cool. Thanks for posting and doing this.

AngryKoala · Oct 11, 2021

We need to really make sure we include a statistical analysis when looking at data. Just a quick example, the data above suggests the Dead Air Nomad LT is the quietest can due to the best average but when analyzing the data it does not have a significant difference. The deviation causes a data overlap. This is without propagating the error in the instrument used as I do not have that data.

Thank you for testing the cans. It seems that statistically the first four cans along with the 338 ultra are so close in performance that a clear winner is not distinguishable.

Data with std dev:

Dead Air Nomad LT
MR- 127.9 +/- 1.1
ML- 128.3 +/- 0.9
SE- 122.8 +/- 0.7

CGS Hyperion
MR- 129.3 +/- 0.7
ML- 128.5 +/- 1.0
SE- 123.8 +/- 1.5

kurtispalu · Oct 11, 2021

AngryKoala said:
We need to really make sure we include a statistical analysis when looking at data. Just a quick example, the data above suggests the Dead Air Nomad LT is the quietest can due to the best average but when analyzing the data it does not have a significant difference. The deviation causes a data overlap. This is without propagating the error in the instrument used as I do not have that data.

Thank you for testing the cans. It seems that statistically the first four cans along with the 338 ultra are so close in performance that a clear winner is not distinguishable.

Data with std dev:

Dead Air Nomad LT
MR- 127.9 +/- 1.1
ML- 128.3 +/- 0.9
SE- 122.8 +/- 0.7

CGS Hyperion
MR- 129.3 +/- 0.7
ML- 128.5 +/- 1.0
SE- 123.8 +/- 1.5

When we do our statistical analysis we average the MR and ML number for each shot. This helps us reduce any discrepeancy in angle and position from shot to shot. We have seen that changing the muzzle angle 5 MOA can cause a deviation in data. By averaging the ML and MR peak for each shot we get a closer representation of reality for that individual shot. If you look at the data from that specificy day the ML and MR numbers flip back and forth from string to string.

We also we perform the same test multiple times to verify that two cans are not flip flopping for who is quieter. For example we have consistantly seen the Nomad LT be quieter than the Hyperion over multiple strings of data taken over multiple days of testing. It is difficult to do a deep statistical analysis on 5 shots but over 4-5 strings it becomes easier and more clear on which can is quieter.

AngryKoala · Oct 11, 2021

kurtispalu said:
When we do our statistical analysis we average the MR and ML number for each shot. This helps us reduce any discrepeancy in angle and position from shot to shot. We have seen that changing the muzzle angle 5 MOA can cause a deviation in data. By averaging the ML and MR peak for each shot we get a closer representation of reality for that individual shot. If you look at the data from that specificy day the ML and MR numbers flip back and forth from string to string.

We also we perform the same test multiple times to verify that two cans are not flip flopping for who is quieter. For example we have consistantly seen the Nomad LT be quieter than the Hyperion over multiple strings of data taken over multiple days of testing. It is difficult to do a deep statistical analysis on 5 shots but over 4-5 strings it becomes easier and more clear on which can is quieter.

Yes, I have no skin in the game I just know how easy it is to take one offs and present them as conclusive so I appreciate your expansion on the testing protocol.
Have you tried testing multiple suppressors of the same type to observe the deviation within the group itself? It would be interesting to note the difference between two or three Nomad LTs, Hyperions, Ultra 9 ect.. I would assume it wouldn't amount to much but it would be interesting.

SDet · Oct 11, 2021

AngryKoala said:
Yes, I have no skin in the game I just know how easy it is to take one offs and present them as conclusive so I appreciate your expansion on the testing protocol.
Have you tried testing multiple suppressors of the same type to observe the deviation within the group itself? It would be interesting to note the difference between two or three Nomad LTs, Hyperions, Ultra 9 ect.. I would assume it wouldn't amount to much but it would be interesting.

Not intentionally, but we've used multiple ultra 9s over the course of a year and saw no significant difference, unless the carbon build up was different between the cans.

kurtispalu · Oct 11, 2021

AngryKoala said:
Yes, I have no skin in the game I just know how easy it is to take one offs and present them as conclusive so I appreciate your expansion on the testing protocol.
Have you tried testing multiple suppressors of the same type to observe the deviation within the group itself? It would be interesting to note the difference between two or three Nomad LTs, Hyperions, Ultra 9 ect.. I would assume it wouldn't amount to much but it would be interesting.

It is also worth noting that for the first 2 years of having the pulse system we would start every test session with the same rifle/can combination to verify that our data collection method was consistant. Over a 2 year span of metering we saw that suppressor/rifle/ammo combination was always within 0.5 dB of our average over that period. That includes collecting data in mulitiple locations/ranges and being setup by 3 different people using our instruction sheet.

AngryKoala · Oct 11, 2021

SDet said:
Not intentionally, but we've used multiple ultra 9s over the course of a year and saw no significant difference, unless the carbon build up was different between the cans.

Interesting, well that speaks to the consistency on manufacturing.

kurtispalu said:
It is also worth noting that for the first 2 years of having the pulse system we would start every test session with the same rifle/can combination to verify that our data collection method was consistant. Over a 2 year span of metering we saw that suppressor/rifle/ammo combination was always within 0.5 dB of our average over that period. That includes collecting data in mulitiple locations/ranges and being setup by 3 different people using our instruction sheet.

Better reproducibility than I get on a fair amount of the lab equipment I use. Thank you for the information. There is an ASTM method that we use that has a 50% reproducibility....imagine trying to elucidate performance from that haha.

Thank you guys for sharing the information.

E. Bryant · Oct 11, 2021

New standard on the Hide: no posting of silencer noise measurements without a full crossed gage R&R study.

kurtispalu · Oct 11, 2021

E. Bryant said:
New standard on the Hide: no posting of silencer noise measurements without a full crossed gage R&R study.

I wish that were enforecable across the industry. It's difficult to play nice within the industry and at the same time point out bad data. After the Discrete Ballistics demo in New Hampshire where the B&K rep orientated the microphones actively (parallel with the sound wave direction) rather than passively (perpendicular to the sound wave direction) we reached out to B&K and offered to be the training team and the tech POC for the B&K Pulse system in the firearms industry just so the data being offered to the public would be consistant and legitimate. Unfortunately they did not take us up on that offer. At some point in the day during that same demo two of the microphones were swapped, it's almost impossible to have mil spec numbers be louder than at ear numbers on a bolt action rifle. I encourage everyone to be skeptical about posted data and ask questions to the people posting it. If they have a good setup and good data they should have no issues answering questions.

Also collection of the data is only half of the battle. You have to be able to present the data clearly and concisely.

2209s are also dead and no longer valid, after we went through ours and spoke extensively to the B&K engineers in Denmark about longevity of that system and when they were produced. There is nothing wrong with the design of the 2209 there are just issues using 40 year old analog electronics.

AngryKoala · Oct 11, 2021

kurtispalu said:
I wish that were enforecable across the industry. It's difficult to play nice within the industry and at the same time point out bad data. After the Discrete Ballistics demo in New Hampshire where the B&K rep orientated the microphones actively (parallel with the sound wave direction) rather than passively (perpendicular to the sound wave direction) we reached out to B&K and offered to be the training team and the tech POC for the B&K Pulse system in the firearms industry just so the data being offered to the public would be consistant and legitimate. Unfortunately they did not take us up on that offer. At some point in the day during that same demo two of the microphones were swapped, it's almost impossible to have mil spec numbers be louder than at ear numbers on a bolt action rifle. I encourage everyone to be skeptical about posted data and ask questions to the people posting it. If they have a good setup and good data they should have no issues answering questions.

Also collection of the data is only half of the battle. You have to be able to present the data clearly and concisely.

2209s are also dead and no longer valid, after we went through ours and spoke extensively to the B&K engineers in Denmark about longevity of that system and when they were produced. There is nothing wrong with the design of the 2209 there are just issues using 40 year old analog electronics.

You're doing the right thing. This issue exists in every industry I've worked. It becomes even more fun when you have conflicting data and your customer is confused. Then the real pissing match begins.

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Suppressors Thunder Beast tests some larger OD 30 cal cans

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