Considering an arbor press to be able to sort loaded rounds based on seating pressure but I'm not sure what to expect if I'm loading cartridges with long bullets to magazine length and high end powder charges. Won't compressed charges cause an inconsistent measurement?
Arbor Press Question
- Thread starter nick338
- Start date
Depending on how compressed they are you might get away with a long drop tube to remedy the compressed charge.
What you may have to do is finish seating the bullet with something else, some presses will allow the inline seating die in the press, some won’t but your arrangement of bullets being sorted by seating pressure goes bye bye.
Also depends on how long you leave a loaded round, the bullets will “migrate” out of the case neck some. So don’t store for long periods of time.
What you may have to do is finish seating the bullet with something else, some presses will allow the inline seating die in the press, some won’t but your arrangement of bullets being sorted by seating pressure goes bye bye.
Also depends on how long you leave a loaded round, the bullets will “migrate” out of the case neck some. So don’t store for long periods of time.
With compressed loads, your only hope would be an amp press.
You’d be able to sort using the graph before you see the spike in seating force caused by the compressed powder.
Trying to monitor it on a hand press with a gauge would be nearly impossible to quantify.
You’d be able to sort using the graph before you see the spike in seating force caused by the compressed powder.
Trying to monitor it on a hand press with a gauge would be nearly impossible to quantify.
I pretty much only use a long drop tube for all my loads as it is. Don't have any issues with crunchy seating now but I'm just thinking ahead.
Thanks I will definitely check CBO measurements if I have loaded ammo sitting around for a while.
Justified as far as results? Probably not.
But the hydro is vastly more comfortable with the long handle. I have their hydro and non hydro presses and the long handle is nice.
I’ll still use the non hydro when I don’t feel like hooking up our AMP press.
Ok, I was just reading up on it and found info that stated the hydraulic pressure gauge was more accurate and sensitive then a spring driven gauge.
Seems like a nice piece of equipment.
I have a K and M with the standard load force spring pack and I’ve maxed it out on compressed loads, really got to watch it no matter the arbor press. I’m pretty sure any of them can be messed up applying too much force.
I need to get a couple more inline dies to see how good or bad my reloading process is lol.
I need to get a couple more inline dies to see how good or bad my reloading process is lol.
OK, I have several arbor press. 21st century. I have 1 with gauge, and 1 without gauge. The gauge is terrible with compressed loads and won't work because you will max out and break your gauge. So you use the other arbor press for the compressed loads. However, you can measure the neck tension "before" it starts to compress, which is helpful.
Completely forgot about blowing the hydraulics of the hydro press. I rarely use it anymore now that we have an amp at the shop.
With the k&m maxing out, the only real options are an AMP press or a custom press with bigger dial.
With the k&m maxing out, the only real options are an AMP press or a custom press with bigger dial.
Also, for what it’s worth, no one has been able to produce any statistically significant data that sorting based on a manual arbor press leaves you with better ammo. Other than very significant outliers.
Jury is still out if we can find anything in the AMP press graphs that we can confidently cull.
Jury is still out if we can find anything in the AMP press graphs that we can confidently cull.
Interesting. So is what you're seeing on the gauge for pressure not an indication of neck tension that will show up on target at extreme ranges? Or are you're saying if your brass prep and sizing operation is correct the results you see on the gauge aren't enough to quantify?
He probably got that from watching a video from E. Cortina's shooting friends, namely a guy called "Witch Doctor". This guy is more science guy shooter, he runs all kinds of tests. Several made a comment when they were showing arbor presses that they could not definitively tell if various neck tension led to better or worse groups. However, I am here to tell you, definitively, neck tension matters a whole LOT. Here is a video from Witch Doctor with evidence.
On a .223/5.56 for every .001 neck tension is approximately 20 PSI. So 1k neck tension is about 40 PSI to seat, and .002 is about 60 PSI to seat, etc. (uncompressed loads)
What I have found is that on a 223/556 an arbor press with a gauge has less utility because almost every load there is using heavy bullets is compressed. Its more useful from 100 yd benchrest competition using 50-55 grain bullets that are not compressed.
I hope this helps.
On a .223/5.56 for every .001 neck tension is approximately 20 PSI. So 1k neck tension is about 40 PSI to seat, and .002 is about 60 PSI to seat, etc. (uncompressed loads)
What I have found is that on a 223/556 an arbor press with a gauge has less utility because almost every load there is using heavy bullets is compressed. Its more useful from 100 yd benchrest competition using 50-55 grain bullets that are not compressed.
I hope this helps.
Please don’t try to speak for me. I haven’t watched that video. Also I “get” my info from testing and also at times speaking to guys like Erik fairly frequently.
As to the OP, the gauge on the arbor press only gives one reading of seating force. There’s a ton that goes into seating force. “Neck tension” as commonly used is used incorrectly. Interference fit is what people are talking about.
As far as the gauge, I can take the exact same interference fit with two cases, then change the inside finish or lubricate it and change the friction which in turn changes the gauge readout. Same if you change the hardness or thickness of the neck. And the list goes on and on.
So, if you’re extremely consistent in your brass prep (likely including neck turning) then your gauge readout will *mostly* show your interference fit. But you won’t know for sure.
That’s the short version.
But again, not a single person who publishes data, myself included, and all the YouTubers, has been able to show any direct correlation to what a gauge like a hydro press show, and results on target.
