Brass hard to chamber?

bmk · Mar 19, 2012

Hello all,

I'm shooting 300 win mag, I full length size in a redding die, then use the Larry Willis die to resize the area above the belt, after that I trim the brass to length then tumble in stainless media (which is awesome, btw).

Just for fun, I ran a few pieces of brass through my 700, no bullet, no primer, just the brass.

About one in five is super super tough to get chambered. I can run the bolt most of the way forward, but the last fraction of an inch is tough and it is super hard to close and super hard to open.

I checked the easy to chamber brass and the hard to chamber brass with my caliper, but can't find any differences.

What the heck am I missing?

clmayfield · Mar 19, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

What are you checking with your calipers? The proper dimension is base to midway to the shoulder, but you need a special insert to hit that dimension. What is happening is you are not sizing enough. Keep screwing the die in about a quarter turn at a time until your brass chambers. Then you are headspaced properly.

JuniperEyes · Mar 19, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

Carter is correct above.

The cheap-o method for measuring from the base to shoulder is to use an empty piece of .40 SW pistol brass to get the measurement. Deprime the piece of pistol brass as well as the rifle brass you intend to measure. The mouth of the .40 brass will go over the mouth of the rifle brass and sit nicely on the shoulder. Measure the total length of both pieces of brass in your caliper.

You should be able to get a reading accurate enough to tell which shoulders are not being bumped enough by the sizing die and also to tell when you are bumping them just enough.

.002 or less is recommended...

BuzzBoss915 · Mar 19, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

I don't know what a Larry Willis die is but a full length die by Reding or anybody else should resize your cases enough to chamber in the rifle it was previously fired in? If it doesn't, and I wonder why the attempt was made to actually chamber the resized empty case? But then, the previous posts are correct, you have all the gear, (including the SS polishing stuff, right Mayfield?) everything read up on the Hide that the simplest explain is that this gentleman doesn't know how to set up a full length die, but they (no doubt) are highly polished!

All I am saying is that many of these readers are all knowed up on really exotic gear and solutions, and yet very simple basic knowledge has been overlooked. Absolutely no offense intended toward the original poster, of course, but some of the information being picked up is (do I dare say it?) unnecessary.

I know there will be those that will call me an old crank, but DANG!
Setting up a full length die is #1 on the list
SS media polishing is #225 maybe #300?
A Larry Willis die might be #224?

However, I have shot 300WinMag for over 30 years and never found a need for anything except a full length and a neck die, and they aren't even Hide approved 'cause they are RCBS.

Okay, I will duck and run. BB

bmk · Mar 19, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

Wow, nothing like a super long post with only attacks and criticism to offer. Posts like that give the forum a bad name.

To the other posters, thank you for your responses, they were very helpful. I hadn't readjusted the die in a long while, and it had backed out of the quick change collet. Also, 80 of my 300 pieces of brass were picked up at a gunshow and hadn't been fired in my rifle. One quarter turn of the die fixed my issues. Thanks a bunch guys.

BuzzBoss915 · Mar 19, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

Ah, hurt your feelings, didn't I? Sorry.

clmayfield · Mar 19, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

I will give BB some credit for at least fitting in a rant on SS Media in a thread where SS media was, in fact, discussed.

Otherwise, fail. Nothing of value there. Not as witty as NOBODY.

BuzzBoss915 · Mar 19, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

Yeah right, absolutely nothing of value. Note: One quarter turn is all it took, and the whole bone head thread would have been totally unnecessary! Except that it got Mayfield mad at me again for griping about SS Media. I CAN'T WIN! <sob>

Gunfighting Inc · Mar 19, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

Here is a somewhat related question. What if one didn't discover the quarter turn error until after he had loaded 500 rounds? Is possible to safely bump the shoulder back on a loaded round?

BuzzBoss915 · Mar 19, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

I wouldn't try it.

JuniperEyes · Mar 20, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Reinman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here is a somewhat related question. What if one didn't discover the quarter turn error until after he had loaded 500 rounds? Is possible to safely bump the shoulder back on a loaded round? </div></div>

It is very possible if one has a Redding body die

Subxero · Mar 20, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

on another note in the original post.

I could be mistaken, as i have never used one....but i am pretty sure the Larry wills collet die is only supposed to be used in combination with neck sizing.

He recommends for belted mag cases to obviously FL your first time if they are new pieces, or once fired out of a different chamber and in that scenario FL is all you need, that is that. But for reloading fired brass from your chamber, you are only to neck size and then use the collet die every 3 or 4 firings to size the lower part of the case

as according to him this method saves wear on the brass, and you get less migration out of the web and better brass life, but if you are FL sizing then no need for the collet die

Oneteam · Mar 20, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

It sounds like the shoulder is not being bumped back enough consistently.

clmayfield · Mar 20, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BuzzBoss915</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yeah right, absolutely nothing of value. Note: One quarter turn is all it took, and the whole bone head thread would have been totally unnecessary! Except that it got Mayfield mad at me again for griping about SS Media. I CAN'T WIN! <sob>
</div></div>

Hey! I gave you credit in that it least came up in the thread in a tangential way. Learn to let go!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Reinman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Here is a somewhat related question. What if one didn't discover the quarter turn error until after he had loaded 500 rounds? Is possible to safely bump the shoulder back on a loaded round?
</div></div>

It is highly inadvisable. The chance of your cartridge being ignited due to crushing your primer during sizing is low, but the consequence is death or dismemberment. It is like running in front of a school bus to pick up a nickel... not worth the gain.

I see a bullet puller in your future.

JuniperEyes · Mar 20, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

Bumping the shoulder back with a body die is at least as safe as pulling a bullet on a loaded round. Neither process involves disturbing the primer but the puller does capture the bullet and hold it and could cause pressure to build if a primer did go off. (Using a collet type puller in a press anyway) The body die would allow the bullet to just pop straight up and out of the case should a round go off in it.

Huckleberry75 · Mar 21, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oneteam</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It sounds like the shoulder is not being bumped back enough consistently. </div></div>

This

10ringping · Mar 21, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

I would fully recommend the Hornady bullet puller. Screws right in your reloader like a die. Super easy to use, and very fast, which will come in handy if you did load 500 and need to pull them...

One-Eyed Jack · Mar 21, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

You need to adjust the height of your full length resizing die. Assuming you have a Redding type die:

* Raise the ram of your press to the top.
* Screw down the resizing die until it touches the top of the ram.
* Loosly tighten the stop ring on the die.
* Now screw the die down by 1/8 turn and tighten the stop ring.
* Resize a fired case and chamber it in your rifle to see whether it now fits.
* If it doesn't fit, tighten down the die another 1/8 turn.
* Repeat as necessary until you can chamber the case.
* Tighten the stop ring, you're ready to resize the rest of your brass.

You can refine the position of the die if you wish since you need only to bump the shoulder by 0.001-0.002".

Mayday · Mar 21, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

After using the collet die from Larry, it had stretched my cases to where i needed to bump the shoulders back. Squeezing down that hump pushed the brass some where, and in my case it made it longer. Check the head space after using the collet die and bump accordingly.

kskevin · Mar 21, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

OEJ - how can you continue to turn the die down further than the initial setting of tightening down to the ram when it is fully raised? Isn't this just going to cause the ram to stop short of fully raised due to hitting the bottom of the resizing die (and possibly damage either the ram or die)? I thought the furthest you should screw down the die is to hit the ram when fully raised and if you aren't getting the shoulder bumped them you have to mill off some of the case holder to allow the die to press down further on the case.

I'm having an issue with not being able to bump my shoulder back and I thought the only way to achieve the bump is to either mill some off the shellholder or buy the set of shell holders that are -0.002", -0.004", etc to allow the die to engage more with the case shoulder.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: One-Eyed Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You need to adjust the height of your full length resizing die. Assuming you have a Redding type die:

* Raise the ram of your press to the top.
* Screw down the resizing die until it touches the top of the ram.
* Loosly tighten the stop ring on the die.
* Now screw the die down by 1/8 turn and tighten the stop ring.
* Resize a fired case and chamber it in your rifle to see whether it now fits.
* If it doesn't fit, tighten down the die another 1/8 turn.
* Repeat as necessary until you can chamber the case.
* Tighten the stop ring, you're ready to resize the rest of your brass.

You can refine the position of the die if you wish since you need only to bump the shoulder by 0.001-0.002". </div></div>

former naval person · Mar 21, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

What OEJ is telling you, is that by tightening it a bit more you are taking the "stretch" out of the press. When you have done that, and the handle has a definite "over the center" bump, but the case is still hard to chamber, then you may have to shorten the shell holder a thousandth or so. JMHO

normbal · Mar 21, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> When you have done that, and the handle has a definite "over the center" bump, but the case is still hard to chamber, then you may have to shorten the shell holder a thousandth or so. JMHO</div></div>

This is easy, with a dial caliper and either a very flat piece of slate and some 200 grit wet sandpaper or a coarse sharpening stone. I took 5 thousandths off a Lee shell holder a couple weeks ago to be able to full-length resize .338 LM brass using an RCBS die and a Lee press.

There is no standard for these components such that you can simply mix and match and expect everything to line up exactly or be the right length(s)/dimensions.

Always work on the cheapest/easiest to replace part first.

tipper · Mar 21, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

This is the classic method for adjusting headspace.

One way we can achieve an ideal headspace with these cases with shoulders that are too far forward is by adjusting your resizing die so that the case's shoulder is moved back to the ideal headspace location. To do so, raise the ram of your reloading press to the top position with the shellholder installed. Take your full length sizing die and screw it down to the point where it's touching the shellholder. Now back off the die by about a half turn. Run a lightly lubricated fired case into the die, and then try chambering it in your gun. If the case does not chamber, or chambers only with difficulty, screw the die down just a bit more (1/8th turn) and size the case again and rechamber. Keep repeating this procedure until the bolt on your gun just closes freely or as I prefer, with a very slight bit of resistance. If shell holder hits the ram when fully raised and if you aren't getting the shoulder bumped them you have to mill off some of the case holder to allow the die to press down further on the case.

bmk · Mar 21, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

I appreciate your post and I don't necessarily think you are mistaken, but even full length sizing doesn't get the area just ahead of the belt. If all of these loads were going to be fired in just one rifle or had been fired from the same rifle, full length sizing would probably work fine.

former naval person · Mar 21, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

True...but if you can afford to shoot two or more rifles of the same caliber, you can certainly afford to have separate sets of brass. If you do want to use the same brass, and use the "special sizer", expect decreased brass life. JMHO

kskevin · Mar 22, 2012

Re: Brass hard to chamber?

thanks for the clarification. Just wanted to make sure I was thinking about it properly. much appreciated.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: former naval person</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What OEJ is telling you, is that by tightening it a bit more you are taking the "stretch" out of the press. When you have done that, and the handle has a definite "over the center" bump, but the case is still hard to chamber, then you may have to shorten the shell holder a thousandth or so. JMHO </div></div>

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