1-8x LPVO for 14.5” 5.56

[Dreamscape]

Hello all,

I’ve been optic shopping for the last several months for my 14.5” 5.56 gun. I believe I want a FFP 1-8x LPVO more than anything else, and have narrowed it down to a few as follows:

Nightforce ATACR
Trijicon VCOG
Primary Arms PLx Griffin

I’m also aware of the new Primary Arms PLx Compact that’s coming out soon and am intrigued by it but would definitely be interested in real world feedback before I would consider it. The specs honestly almost seem too good to be true, and I seem to be waiting to find out what the trade off is. If it checks out, it appears to be a hell of an offering.

With that said, I’m most concerned with the following in order of importance to me:

-Forgiving eye box
-Light transmission
-Durability
-Factory support

The ATACR seems to win every category except for factory support, which I believe the PLx wins. But factory support doesn’t win gunfights. VCOG is arguably less durable than the ATACR, but I would welcome any input regarding that. Its 28mm objective lens should be conducive to superior light transmission, right? I’ve heard some say the PLx eye box is a little tight, and others say it’s perfectly acceptable, so more feedback on that would be appreciated as well. Its reticle is certainly its biggest selling point to me. I’ve heard mixed things about light transmission and glass clarity as well so any feedback there would be helpful.

An aside, I eliminated the Vortex Razor 1-10x because its eye box seems to become incredibly specific to me at higher magnification, and I’m not crazy about the reticle.


All said, I’m certainly leaning towards the ATACR the most. Am I correct in doing so?

 

[JDB55]

I have no experience with the Atacr or Vcog(both seem to be great albeit pricey)...or the primary arms technically. However, just thinking this through specifically for the original primary arms being on your list, the new primary arms PLx compact is an upgrade optically, lighter, bigger FOV, with a bit better illumination and a better reticle on 1x for FFP(semi subjective but the crosshairs will really compared to a "floating" reticle).

This is essentially a gen 2 of the gen 1 PA though there are obvious differences(read the thread on here for comments by primary arms, "Marsh1"). There isn't a reason to consider the old one to the new one in my mind, maybe I'm missing something though.

 

[nn8734]

I just put a 1-6 VCOG on my 14.5” (replaced an Wlcan 1/4x) and so far its working out nicely.

I shoot only 77smks (my own version of mk262 mod 1) so grabbed one with the 308 bdc reticle calibrated for the 175 smk which lines up identical to the 77smk out to 600m or so.

Heres a group at 500m, holding the 500m stadia in the reticle at the waterline, left edge (wind was appx 5mph L2R).

 

[JDB55]

I just put a 1-6 VCOG on my 14.5” (replaced an Wlcan 1/4x) and so far its working out nicely.

I shoot only 77smks (my own version of mk262 mod 1) so grabbed one with the 308 bdc reticle calibrated for the 175 smk which lines up identical to the 77smk out to 600m or so.

Heres a group at 500m, holding the 500m stadia in the reticle at the waterline, left edge (wind was appx 5mph L2R).
View attachment 7835854

What's the illumination like on these? Been curious? Day visible? Nuclear/Red dot bright? Thanks

 

[nn8734]

What's the illumination like on these? Been curious? Day visible? Nuclear/Red dot bright? Thanks

Its plenty strong for daylight use however ive not had a need to even turn it on so far. I also run the RMR on top when doing close range (less than 100m or so) so the VCOG stays on 6x most of the time for stuff further out.

 

[TheHorta]

I find the distortion on the ATACR at 1x to be bothersome. I’ve put an offset RMR on the C1 mount so I don’t have to deal with it. Also, the ATACR has a much more pronounced/visible outer scope circle at 1x compared to the 1-10x G3 Razor.

I have the C653 with DMX reticle.

 

[6AYoteHunter]

I currently own the ATACR and VCOG 1-8

The ATACR is the clearest by far but mild fish eye on the edge of the image at 1x. Best choice if shooting further often. Have shot with this optic out to 800 yards frequently. Very pleasant all around. Great light gathering even with just moonlight. Buy a nightforce mount for this optic. Comes with lense covers.

The VCOG has a very flat image but not as clear. Fastest 1x target transitions of any 1-8. Best choice if often shooting closer. Swap out base for an ADM QD base. The knob base is inferior. Buy some tenebraex lens covers.

 

[Dreamscape]

Thanks for sharing your ownership experience! Has me leaning more towards the ATACR since I already have some red dot and ACOG-equipped rifles for closer range applications, so the VCOG’s close range advantage would be sort of redundant.

 

[taboopineapple]

I currently own a PLx 1-8. I also used to own a Razor gen 3 and Trijicon Accupower 1-8(seems to be similiar to the VCOG without the built in mount) at the same time I owned the PLx.

The PLx eyebox isn't amazing but isn't bad by any means. I thought it was better than the Razor but worse than the Accupower which had an extremely good eyebox. Under bright conditions, I personally though the PLx glass edged out the Accupower. I don't do much low light shooting with lpvo's so I won't comment on light transmission with failing light where the 28mm could shine. I also can't speak to durability or factory support as both of them seem to be built like tanks and I've never had to use eithers warranty service, but I also am not super hard on my rifles.

The biggest reason I kept the PLx over the Accupower was I liked the reticle more at all magnifications and the glass looked a little better to me, but the Accupower does has a better eyebox.

 

[Dreamscape]

Has it been established with certainty that the VCOG is the Accupower/Credo with an integrated mount? I’ve seen this suggested a lot.

 

[Asiparks]

Have the Accupower,
Eyebox at all magnification is very comfortable, Illumination is pretty bright and I have zero issues with the glass- might not be the best, but I think it's very good and certainly nothing that would impede your shooting. Nice smooth mag ring and I like the locking turrets and easy tool less zero. Built like a brick shithouse too.
I do think the center + is on the thick side at 8X, but I can't say that I'm trying to shoot tight groups with this setup, so not a huge issue.
Price jump between Accupower/Credo and VCOG is pretty big- wouldn't worth it to me.

 

[Dreamscape]

Well I had myself talked into the ATACR. Stopped at my local gun shop earlier and they had a 1-6x VCOG there. I was impressed with it, and by all accounts, the 1-8x is better, so I just ordered one.

I have to consider that the farthest I shoot on a regular basis is just shy of 500 yards, and I’m pretty mechanically retarded, so not having to mount and level a scope is a huge perk for me.

I went with the MOA reticle because I’m too old and stupid to learn MILs. Will provide my initial impressions on the VCOG once it arrives and I get a few rounds through it.

 

[owtlaw]

I'm liking that XCR

 

[Asiparks]

I'm liking that XCR

Me too…..

Very soft smooth shooter, pretty much zero gas in the face suppressed. Really nicely put together. As it should be given the price..

Cons: aside from the pistol grip: bugger all interchangeable with an AR lower. Fortunately the trigger is good.

 

[Dreamscape]

VCOG just arrived. EuroOptic is phenomenal. Initial impressions are very good. Just got it mounted to my rifle, hoping to get to the range on Sunday to get it zeroed and play with it a bit.

 

[TacticalPlinker]

VCOG just arrived. EuroOptic is phenomenal. Initial impressions are very good. Just got it mounted to my rifle, hoping to get to the range on Sunday to get it zeroed and play with it a bit.

Interested in your observations. Eyebox sensitivity impressions during non conventional positions would be great.

 

[Dreamscape]

Didn’t make it to the range as the weather just sucked all the fun out of that idea. I did, however, get to compare the ATACR and VCOG side by side. Impressions and thoughts to come.

 

[mewillis]

I also sprung for a Vcog 1-8 but ditched the mount for an MI QD. Other than that I like it better than my buddies Vortex 1-10 but mine
is on a 16" .308 I feel confident you will like it, feels extremely robust.........

 

[db2000]

PLx Griffin. Great reticle IMO. Daylight bright. 2 NV settings.
Great glass. A bit heavy but built like a tank. Good turrets, not that you’re probably dialing much but good none the less. I’ve dialed it at the range (400-700y) a fair amount to confirm it’s repeatability and it’s perfect. Hold overs are accurate. Eyebox is good but I do have an RMR on top. Not sure it’s faster but whatever.

 

[Dreamscape]

Made it to the range today with the VCOG. I love it. I know I still need to type up VCOG/ATACR comparison as well. Have been busy.

But, so far I consider all the VCOG hate unwarranted/unfounded. It’s awesome.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

That's a lot of scope tube..

 

[Dreamscape]

That's a lot of scope tube..

It’s not anywhere near a noticeable in real life. I was having a hard time getting a good picture of the reticle. My iPhone kept shifting focus. These photos ended up being taken at a slight angle.

 

[ZF-1]

I was using a fixed 4x and an offset rds but changes over to a 1-4x on my 14.5. It's an Athlon with a Bushnell dot mounted above it.

I also have a Burris 1-4 on my 16" 458 SOCOM but no second dot for it.

 

[3rdfocal]

The VCOG is definitely a slick optic. I was blown away by the image at 1x.

 

[taboopineapple]

Made it to the range today with the VCOG. I love it. I know I still need to type up VCOG/ATACR comparison as well. Have been busy.

But, so far I consider all the VCOG hate unwarranted/unfounded. It’s awesome.

What do people hate on about the VCOG? I just thought the biggest complaint is that they're overpriced, but most ruggedized military type optics are like the ACOG and Elcan Spectre's. Looking forward to the comparison, I haven't used the ATACR before and hear both good and bad things about it.

 

[TheOE800]

What do people hate on about the VCOG? I just thought the biggest complaint is that they're overpriced, but most ruggedized military type optics are like the ACOG and Elcan Spectre's. Looking forward to the comparison, I haven't used the ATACR before and hear both good and bad things about it.

Because the 1-6 illum sucked and more than one sample seemed to have focus issues, mine included. Also, heavy as fuck.

 

[Dreamscape]

Nightforce ATACR/Trijicon VCOG impression comparison.

Starting with 1x, the edge goes to the VCOG here. The segmented circle/crosshair reticle remains perfectly usable even without illumination. The ATACR does have better illumination, but it’s out of necessity, as the FC-DMx reticle is extremely sub-par at 1x without it.


So it’s a trade off. VCOG has a great 1x reticle that can be run used very effectively without illumination. ATACR has a substandard 1x reticle that 100% depends on the use of illumination. Hence the ATACR does and should have better illumination. I tend to favor the VCOG here since it’s usefulness isn’t as dependent on battery life. ATACR could be used at 1x without illumination, but it would definitely be slower and far less precise.


VCOG does appear to have a slightly better 1x overall than the ATACR. It’s flat, crisp, and the eye box is fantastic.



Going through all magnifications, the VCOG has a consistently faster reticle. You’re immediately oriented and ready to shoot. The ATACR takes slightly longer to get oriented, but it is a more feature-rich reticle by far. Can’t really say one is better than the other here. It simply depends on what the end-user wants.



Where Trijicon appears to designed the VCOG to be a well-rounded optic for use at all magnifications, Nightforce seems to have designed the ATACR to favor use at 8x. At 8x the ATACR is just best-in-class good in terms of clarity, light transmission, and useable reticle. But with that said, the VCOG does not lag far behind. In fact I do think the color contrast is slightly better through the VCOG at 8x, and the eye box is definitely ever so slightly more forgiving.



Keep in mind, though, that these 8x observations are found through very slow, repetitive, and deliberate scrutiny. Just grabbing a rifle with either optic and snapping it up quickly would yield very little discernible difference. Both of these optics are excellent.





Given all the complaints about the VCOG diopter shift, I did my best to induce it, and could not. If there were problems in the early rollout of the VCOG circa 2013, they’re definitely gone now.


In terms of outward appearance, the ATACR definitely feels and looks a bit nicer, but this is absolutely not an indication of functionality. Magnification adjustment is a bit smoother and easier with the ATACR as well. While the VCOG isn’t difficult by any means, the ATACR just feels nicer.


Both have capped turrets. The adjustments in the ATACR are crisp and confidence-inspiring. The adjustments in the VCOG are a bit “squishy” for lack of a better term. You kind of have to pause and feel the clicks rather than hear them. ATACR wins big here.



Overall the ATACR is a little more refined, and a little bit more aesthetically pleasing, but it’s really not that far ahead in terms of raw functionality. If you could only have one, you’d be perfectly served by either one based upon what you want to spend. I do think the VCOG is marginally superior as a better rounded optic, however.



In terms of weight, both optics were mounted to Geissele Super Duty rifles. ATACR on a 16” and VCOG on a 14.5” however the 14.5” is equipped with a heavier weapon light so it evens out pretty well. There is no noticeable weight difference. All the complaining about the VCOG’s weight is unmerited. A quality comparable optic in a quality mount comes within a few ounces. VCOG weight is so overblown.



Hoping to get to the range again on Sunday with both the ATACR and VCOG.



With that said, here’s my brief VCOG range report:


-Eye box is excellent

-Shooting from awkward positions is perfectly doable

-Tracks perfectly

-Easily used 1x w/o illumination to make rapid and accurate hits from 10 to 100 yards.

-Used 8x to pulverize half-sized bricks at 189 yards with ease.


Ammo used was PMC X-Tac M855.



VCOG did great at the range. Looking forward to the ATACR live fire outing.



Any specific questions, please ask.

 

[TheOE800]

Adjustments on a LPVO, especially with a tree reticle, are truly a tertiary concern IMO. Additionally, the mounted weight of an ATACR is within 1.5-2oz of a VCOG so the weight “concern” I can agree with (despite my above comment), though I had to check my records to verify.

 

[taboopineapple]

Interesting take. Looks like you're in the honeymoon phase lol. I'm surprised you like Trijicon reticle so much, I found it way too busy at 1x and a big oversight not to include wind holds at 8x. Guess it just goes to show how personal reticle preference is. My NX8 is my favorite 1x FFP reticle and the PLx is my favorite 8x reticle and the atacr looks to combine both somewhat.

 

[Dreamscape]

Interesting take. Looks like you're in the honeymoon phase lol. I'm surprised you like Trijicon reticle so much, I found it way too busy at 1x and a big oversight not to include wind holds at 8x. Guess it just goes to show how personal reticle preference is. My NX8 is my favorite 1x FFP reticle and the PLx is my favorite 8x reticle and the atacr looks to combine both somewhat.

I would be less enthused about a lack of wind holds on a DMR type of rifle. With a 14.5” 5.56 gun shooting mostly 55 and 62 grain projectiles, I think they’re largely irrelevant.

 

[taboopineapple]

I would be less enthused about a lack of wind holds on a DMR type of rifle. With a 14.5” 5.56 gun shooting mostly 55 and 62 grain projectiles, I think they’re largely irrelevant.

That's true. I guess I just see the advantage of an FFP over a SFP is the ability to have a nice simple reticle at 1x and an 8x reticle with plenty of holds and ranging features. The Credo/Vcog reticle does the opposite in this regard

 

[Dreamscape]

That's true. I guess I just see the advantage of an FFP over a SFP is the ability to have a nice simple reticle at 1x and an 8x reticle with plenty of holds and ranging features. The Credo/Vcog reticle does the opposite in this regard

My take on the VCOG is that it’s extremely usable, precise, and fast at 1x with or without illumination. Certainly not the opposite of simple. Wheras the ATACR is mostly useless at 1x without illumination. At 8x the VCOG is precise, uncluttered, and does still offer wind hold estimation via MIL or MOA increments in both crosshairs. It would be slightly slower, but not enough for it to matter in the majority of circumstances and still very usable. Yes the FC-DMx reticle is superior at 8x for wind holds and range estimates, which is in line with what I originally stated- the ATACR shines at 8x specifically while the VCOG is more versatile and well-rounded.

 

[TheOE800]

The ATACR also has class-trailing FOV.

 

[Dreamscape]

The ATACR also has class-trailing FOV.

That’s right, but I’ll say that it’s a much more academic disparity than a really perceivable disparity. It actually didn’t occur to me at all that the ATACR FOV is less, and I was looking at things from right in front of me to all the way across a fairly large valley.

 

[mrtoyz]

I still think the N8x 1-8 with the new 1-8 ATACR mil tree reticle would be the ideal AR LPVO. Id deal with its other shortcomings.

 

[rlsmith1]

I still think the N8x 1-8 with the new 1-8 ATACR mil tree reticle would be the ideal AR LPVO. Id deal with its other shortcomings.

Apart from a touchy eyebox, what are the other shortcomings of the NX8?

 

[TheOE800]

Apart from a touchy eyebox, what are the other shortcomings of the NX8?

The reticle.

 

[rlsmith1]

Agreed, you said shortcomings so I thought maybe there were more I wasn't aware of. The reticle is all that has kept me from picking one up. The PLX Compact may fix that if it's reasonably durable.

ETA: Still don't love the horseshoe in the PLX reticles but I can compromise on that and it's definitely better than the NX8 reticle

 

[Dreamscape]

The eye box on the NX8 as well as the exposed turrets sort of pushes me away from that one.

 

[TheOE800]

The eye box on the NX8 as well as the exposed turrets sort of pushes me away from that one.

Odd choice there on the turrets, forgot that.

 

[mrtoyz]

Apart from a touchy eyebox, what are the other shortcomings of the NX8?

Yes eyebox and reticle. Turrets, I can live with

 

[TonyTheTiger]

I would be less enthused about a lack of wind holds on a DMR type of rifle. With a 14.5” 5.56 gun shooting mostly 55 and 62 grain projectiles, I think they’re largely irrelevant.

Just because I like to be contrary, I use wind holds a lot more with my shorter guns shooting 55gr than when using heavier ammo or longer barrels.
I thought I wouldn't miss wind hashes when I put a PST 2 1-6x on my 13.7" and boy was I wrong. The thing hammers at 500 yards, but I'm up a creek when the wind picks up and I start holding in the middle of nowhere.

 

[TheOE800]

Just because I like to be contrary, I use wind holds a lot more with my shorter guns shooting 55gr than when using heavier ammo or longer barrels.
I thought I wouldn't miss wind hashes when I put a PST 2 1-6x on my 13.7" and boy was I wrong. The thing hammers at 500 yards, but I'm up a creek when the wind picks up and I start holding in the middle of nowhere.

That’s an interesting take.

 

[taboopineapple]

Apart from a touchy eyebox, what are the other shortcomings of the NX8?

Honestly don't mind the eyebox too much on the NX8. I think most people that shit on it and call it unusable just didn't know what they were buying and bought it because it says nightforce on the side. You can also get the NX8 with caps if you're vet or law enforcement which is a strange decision on the part of NF to limit civilian customers to only exposed elevation.

The reticle is very frustrating because it's clear NF knows how to make a good 8x reticle looking at the ATACR's. idk if it's some sort of marketing trick to get people to buy the ATACR for the reticle or something

 

[rlsmith1]

It’s marketing 100% to get everyone to go ATACR. I have avoided the ATACR almost out of spite and because other options exist

 

[Dreamscape]

It’s marketing 100% to get everyone to go ATACR. I have avoided the ATACR almost out of spite and because other options exist

Don’t get me wrong, I have a ton of respect for the ATACR, but I did feel it was a little strange how hard I had to look for performance disparities in the over $1,000 cheaper VCOG.

The law of diminishing returns hits hard here. Just like the McLaren 720S is around $350k, and the McLaren P1 is well over a million, but only marginally an objectively better car.

 

[TonyTheTiger]

The law of diminishing returns hits hard here. Just like the McLaren 720S is around $350k, and the McLaren P1 is well over a million, but only marginally an objectively better car.

Well that's because the Senna is best, everyone knows that.
But to continue the analogy, the law of diminishing returns probably kicks in hard for the average driver somewhere at or below an M3, any faster is a waste. Similarly, the average shooter would be more than adequately served with a Vortex PST G2.

 

[TheOE800]

Definitely below. More like 335i at best.

 

[Dreamscape]

Well that's because the Senna is best, everyone knows that.
But to continue the analogy, the law of diminishing returns probably kicks in hard for the average driver somewhere at or below an M3, any faster is a waste. Similarly, the average shooter would be more than adequately served with a Vortex PST G2.

The Senna is cool, and its performance figures are remarkable, but damn if it’s not all function over form. It’s a homely looking car.


You do raise a good point about the PST G2 though, and I certainly agree. Most people don’t put enough rounds down range to warrant much more than that. Training vs gear capability shines through.

 

[PBWalsh]

Nightforce ATACR/Trijicon VCOG impression comparison.

Starting with 1x, the edge goes to the VCOG here. The segmented circle/crosshair reticle remains perfectly usable even without illumination. The ATACR does have better illumination, but it’s out of necessity, as the FC-DMx reticle is extremely sub-par at 1x without it.


So it’s a trade off. VCOG has a great 1x reticle that can be run used very effectively without illumination. ATACR has a substandard 1x reticle that 100% depends on the use of illumination. Hence the ATACR does and should have better illumination. I tend to favor the VCOG here since it’s usefulness isn’t as dependent on battery life. ATACR could be used at 1x without illumination, but it would definitely be slower and far less precise.


VCOG does appear to have a slightly better 1x overall than the ATACR. It’s flat, crisp, and the eye box is fantastic.



Going through all magnifications, the VCOG has a consistently faster reticle. You’re immediately oriented and ready to shoot. The ATACR takes slightly longer to get oriented, but it is a more feature-rich reticle by far. Can’t really say one is better than the other here. It simply depends on what the end-user wants.



Where Trijicon appears to designed the VCOG to be a well-rounded optic for use at all magnifications, Nightforce seems to have designed the ATACR to favor use at 8x. At 8x the ATACR is just best-in-class good in terms of clarity, light transmission, and useable reticle. But with that said, the VCOG does not lag far behind. In fact I do think the color contrast is slightly better through the VCOG at 8x, and the eye box is definitely ever so slightly more forgiving.



Keep in mind, though, that these 8x observations are found through very slow, repetitive, and deliberate scrutiny. Just grabbing a rifle with either optic and snapping it up quickly would yield very little discernible difference. Both of these optics are excellent.





Given all the complaints about the VCOG diopter shift, I did my best to induce it, and could not. If there were problems in the early rollout of the VCOG circa 2013, they’re definitely gone now.


In terms of outward appearance, the ATACR definitely feels and looks a bit nicer, but this is absolutely not an indication of functionality. Magnification adjustment is a bit smoother and easier with the ATACR as well. While the VCOG isn’t difficult by any means, the ATACR just feels nicer.


Both have capped turrets. The adjustments in the ATACR are crisp and confidence-inspiring. The adjustments in the VCOG are a bit “squishy” for lack of a better term. You kind of have to pause and feel the clicks rather than hear them. ATACR wins big here.



Overall the ATACR is a little more refined, and a little bit more aesthetically pleasing, but it’s really not that far ahead in terms of raw functionality. If you could only have one, you’d be perfectly served by either one based upon what you want to spend. I do think the VCOG is marginally superior as a better rounded optic, however.



In terms of weight, both optics were mounted to Geissele Super Duty rifles. ATACR on a 16” and VCOG on a 14.5” however the 14.5” is equipped with a heavier weapon light so it evens out pretty well. There is no noticeable weight difference. All the complaining about the VCOG’s weight is unmerited. A quality comparable optic in a quality mount comes within a few ounces. VCOG weight is so overblown.



Hoping to get to the range again on Sunday with both the ATACR and VCOG.



With that said, here’s my brief VCOG range report:


-Eye box is excellent

-Shooting from awkward positions is perfectly doable

-Tracks perfectly

-Easily used 1x w/o illumination to make rapid and accurate hits from 10 to 100 yards.

-Used 8x to pulverize half-sized bricks at 189 yards with ease.


Ammo used was PMC X-Tac M855.



VCOG did great at the range. Looking forward to the ATACR live fire outing.



Any specific questions, please ask.

I know this is a bit older topic but I do have a question.

The pictures of the 1-8 Mil VCOG turrets do not show any hashes, numbers, etc. like a normal turret has (reference the PST gen2). Are you dialing without reference numbers or what?