Range Report 110 A-Tip Jump Test Results

[samb300]

I purchased a barrel’s worth of 110 A-Tips before the Berger 109s came out, and have been shooting through them this season. Based on the advice of some people already using them, I started at 0.025” jump and haven’t touched them in 800 rounds. They have been shooting awesome and the box value G7 of 0.304 has gotten me hits out to 1375 yds without truing.

I was hoping SAC would spoon feed us some jump test data on them like they did for the 105 Hybrids haha, but they haven’t released that data yet. I have been time crunched this season, but had some leftover ammo and a free afternoon so I did a quick test on my own. Granted, it’s only at 100 yds but the results are still very promising.

Specs:
- Factory AX action
- 24” Bartlein 5R .237
- 8 to 7.25” gain twist
- TBAC 6.5 Ultra 7
- Alpha virgin brass, CCI450, 33.7gr Varget
- 2775 fps (don’t ask...my barrel has slowed down ~50fps in the first 800 rds)
- 2.015” BTO when new. Measuring ~ 0.045” throat erosion after 800 rds using Hornady comparator tool (so likely not perfect)
- Using “GAP spec” reamer with 0.273” neck and 0.120” freebore

Here are the results. Anything from 0.020” to 0.100” jump is absolute money. Had some weirdness at 0.120” and 0.140”, can’t say for sure they weren’t fliers due to being impatient with suppressor mirage, but I wouldn’t jump them that far based on what’s going on at the shorter jumps.

For reference, the top orange dots are 1/2”. The lower orange dots with the black diamond are 1”. And the black shoot n sees are 2”. Those had pressure test rounds comparing 3 types of 6GT brass spanning 3gr of Varget.

I’m open to debating the cost vs benefit of the A-Tips against a 105/109 Hybrid, but for me they shoot so damn well and the G7 is a real 0.30x, so they are worth it for how little I shoot in a season (will be about 1100 rds total). If I was shooting 3-5k rounds a year like a lot of you, the $0.65/bullet price would get harder to swallow. And for as much praise and critiques the 6GT has received, it has shot lights out for me all year so I can’t complain there. I don’t think I’ve ever got a fast Bartlein and this barrel is no different. I always shoot 24” suppressed so I lose some speed to the normal 26-28” barrels, but I always seem to be 50-100fps slower than everyone I read load data from. I can’t explain why I went from 2830fps to 2775fps with the same load in the first 800 rounds, other than the temp going from 75F to 45F, and my opened 8# jug of Varget absorbing moisture in my basement. I usually use 1# jugs for that reason.

 

[Tokay444]

Can’t really get any feel for vertical spread at 100. If you can repeat the test at 300 or farther it could have some merit.
40 thou and 80 both look like they string vertically and would look way worse at distance. I wouldn’t say your node is from 20-100 at all.

 

[samb300]

Can’t really get any feel for vertical spread at 100. If you can repeat the test at 300 or farther it could have some merit.
40 thou and 80 both look like they string vertically and would look way worse at distance. I wouldn’t say your node is from 20-100 at all.

I agree. I might try to repeat the test in a couple weeks after my last match this weekend.

Can’t argue with 1/4 moa and no POI shift across 0.080” of jump though.

 

[Tokay444]

You’d be all set if you were shooting 3 round groups at 100 yards forever.

 

[samb300]

Can’t tell if you’re being snarky or not, but hey whatever. I only shot these at 100 and went to a match and made hits out to 1350 so I’m not too worried about vertical or the BC not lining up. The vast majority of my rounds downrange are at matches, not paper at 100.

Just trying to share data that I haven’t seen elsewhere online other than a couple people telling me to jump 0.025”. If that isn’t adequate for you, please test them yourself and report back, I’d love to see some more data. That goes for any bullet, really. I can’t recall seeing much jump data other than SAC/PRB, and usually it shows groups opening up a lot more or having more POI shift even at 100.

 

[Tokay444]

All I'm saying is, you really haven't shared any data.
3 shot groups at 100 yards all but insignificant unless you're shooting 3 shot groups at 100 yards.

 

[Mordamer]

Can’t really get any feel for vertical spread at 100. If you can repeat the test at 300 or farther it could have some merit.
40 thou and 80 both look like they string vertically and would look way worse at distance. I wouldn’t say your node is from 20-100 at all.

You say he hasn't shared any data, but you can somehow also tell from a 3 shot group at 100 yards that the load will be vertically stringing at distance?

Thanks OP for sharing your data. I find it valuable.

 

[samb300]

All I'm saying is, you really haven't shared any data.
3 shot groups at 100 yards all but insignificant unless you're shooting 3 shot groups at 100 yards.

I’m sorry my time, money, and “non-data” inconvenienced you by somehow making you read through it and comment how invalid it is.

I’m going to go and actually shoot some more matches with my statistically insignificant load, and try to win another one with it.

Please let me know when you have a perfect DOE created and test results that are significant.

 

[samb300]

You say he hasn't shared any data, but you can somehow also tell from a 3 shot group at 100 yards that the load will be vertically stringing at distance?

Thanks OP for sharing your data. I find it valuable.

Thanks!

 

[Changed]

All I'm saying is, you really haven't shared any data.
3 shot groups at 100 yards all but insignificant unless you're shooting 3 shot groups at 100 yards.

Do you only crap on peoples theads, or do you contribute.

Here’s an idea, how about you spend the time, and money, to report data that the rest of the group can actually use when shooting.

 

[Dthomas3523]

You absolutely can get a feel for vertical at 100yds.

There is zero need to shoot at distance other than to check BC consistency and true data. Unless you are shooting a static distance like F class and are tuning for positive compensation.

For practical purpose, 3 shot groups @100 are perfectly acceptable for seating depth assessments and such.

 

[Dthomas3523]

There is no such thing as “looks.”

Angular is angular.

 

[Tokay444]

Do you only crap on peoples theads, or do you contribute.

Here’s an idea, how about you spend the time, and money, to report data that the rest of the group can actually use when shooting.

Have at’er if that’s enough data for you to determine your jump node is from 20-100 thou.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Have at’er if that’s enough data for you to determine your jump node is from 20-100 thou.

Yes it is.

 

[b2lee]

I have a quick question. You said your barrel has slowed down 50fps since the first 800 rounds.....but didn't the 110 A-Tips get a slight tweak in the geometry that wasn't really announced to the public? Is the 50fps across the same exact lot number of bullets?

Edit..I see you said "A barrels worth of A-Tips".....are they the same Lot # across the board?

 

[Tokay444]

Yes it is.

Someone should tell Mark Gordon he’s wasting a lot of ammo.

 

[Darkside-Six]

Sam,

as far as your question on the 110’s vs 109’s I have traveled down that road.

At the end of last season when I decided on switching to 6GT I had purchased about 2k worth of 110’s during one of brownells 20% of sales literally the day before Berger announced the 109’s. I started at .030 off and never touched them. Once I found my charge weight they shot great. For shits and grins I grabbed 200 109’s to see what all the fuss was about. My load ended up being exact same charge weight and speed.

shot them both at 1K and there was maybe .1 mil difference, if any. But at half the cost I decided to go with the 109’s. Had a buddy that was getting ready for a big match and couldn’t find any 110’s at the time so I sold the rest to him and bought a shit load of 109’s.They haven’t let me down yet.

 

[samb300]

Have at’er if that’s enough data for you to determine your jump node is from 20-100 thou.

What’s funny is not once in my original post did I say “the A-Tip jump node is 0.020 - 0.100”. I said jumping from 0.020 to 0.100 is money. Meaning look at the target. If you think 5 consecutive groups at roughly 1/3 moa with no POI shift shows in any way that the A-Tip is jump sensitive, then I’m not sure what magic bullet you’re shooting instead.

I shot 3 shot groups instead of 5. So what?

I shot at 100 yards instead of 300, 600 or 1000. So what? I was looking for POI shift with varying jumps, just like the SAC tests are doing. The fact that they group well in addition to that is icing on the cake. Mark Gordon says in his test results that his jump testing isn’t to necessarily yield the best groups; rather the best POI variance in a ~0.020+ jump window.

You’re also giving me a lot of credit for my group shooting skills to ascertain the vertical spread at distance based on a bunch of (IMO) pretty decent groups. Did I mention they were all shot consecutively with a bipod and rear bag without waiting for my suppressor to cool down? Maybe you can shoot infinite 10-shot groups at 600 that are 1/4 moa but I don’t know that I can.

 

[samb300]

I have a quick question. You said your barrel has slowed down 50fps since the first 800 rounds.....but didn't the 110 A-Tips get a slight tweak in the geometry that wasn't really announced to the public? Is the 50fps across the same exact lot number of bullets?

Edit..I see you said "A barrels worth of A-Tips".....are they the same Lot # across the board?

Yes, I bought 1500 from the same lot.

Do you have info on this alleged geometry change on the A-Tips? First I’m hearing about it.

My original load was 33.6gr Varget at 2830fps. It gradually dropped 10-15fps each 200 rounds or so. It also got colder here in WI, so at the BarrelMaker it was 80F and 2820fps, last match was 45F and 2785fps.

I’ve only used Bartlein barrels, but I swear I’ve never gotten a remotely “fast” barrel that matches up with other people’s load data. I also normally use 1# jugs, so it’s possible my 8# jug that I’ve slowly been using over the past 6 months has absorbed moisture since all my reloading stuff is kept in my basement. Not sure. I also shoot 24” length suppressed, so I’m almost always 30-60 fps slower than everyone else with 26-28” barrels.

 

[samb300]

Sam,

as far as your question on the 110’s vs 109’s I have traveled down that road.

At the end of last season when I decided on switching to 6GT I had purchased about 2k worth of 110’s during one of brownells 20% of sales literally the day before Berger announced the 109’s. I started at .030 off and never touched them. Once I found my charge weight they shot great. For shits and grins I grabbed 200 109’s to see what all the fuss was about. My load ended up being exact same charge weight and speed.

shot them both at 1K and there was maybe .1 mil difference, if any. But at half the cost I decided to go with the 109’s. Had a buddy that was getting ready for a big match and couldn’t find any 110’s at the time so I sold the rest to him and bought a shit load of 109’s.They haven’t let me down yet.

It’s hard to argue with how the 110’s have been shooting for me, but I get that the 109s (for a lot of people, not all) are basically equivalent for $0.25 per bullet cheaper. Like I mentioned, this season I’ll have put about 900 match rounds and 200 work-up/practice rounds through it. So the cost difference isn’t too bad, and I have had great results at matches out to 1375 despite never shooting a piece of paper or a group past 100 yards lol

I have a box of 109’s. Maybe before I blow my load on another season’s worth of 110’s I will repeat this same test at 300 or a bit farther, and do the 109’s vs the 110’s. The barrel is slow but hammering, so if I have some warm WI weather in November I should be able to do it. And with the throat worn out a bit I should easily be able to jump the 109’s really far without going too deep into the case.

In general, I don’t mess with what’s working. I’ve only owned one match rifle at a time, first an AT then sold it for an AX. That’s been 5 years. Same optic (Razor) for 5 years. Shot 6.5x47L for 4 years, this is my first 6mm with the GT. So if something is working...

 

[Darkside-Six]

It’s hard to argue with how the 110’s have been shooting for me, but I get that the 109s (for a lot of people, not all) are basically equivalent for $0.25 per bullet cheaper. Like I mentioned, this season I’ll have put about 900 match rounds and 200 work-up/practice rounds through it. So the cost difference isn’t too bad, and I have had great results at matches out to 1375 despite never shooting a piece of paper or a group past 100 yards lol

I have a box of 109’s. Maybe before I blow my load on another season’s worth of 110’s I will repeat this same test at 300 or a bit farther, and do the 109’s vs the 110’s. The barrel is slow but hammering, so if I have some warm WI weather in November I should be able to do it. And with the throat worn out a bit I should easily be able to jump the 109’s really far without going too deep into the case.

In general, I don’t mess with what’s working. I’ve only owned one match rifle at a time, first an AT then sold it for an AX. That’s been 5 years. Same optic (Razor) for 5 years. Shot 6.5x47L for 4 years, this is my first 6mm with the GT. So if something is working...

well if you bought 1500 for your barrel you’ll have plenty of barrel left to try the 109’s. I have just under 2500 on my GT barrel and everything still working good. No lost speed or accuracy yet.

 

[samb300]

well if you bought 1500 for your barrel you’ll have plenty of barrel left to try the 109’s. I have just under 2500 on my GT barrel and everything still working good. No lost speed or accuracy yet.

Mine is still shooting great, just WAY slower than I was at 200rds. My original load was 33.6gr at 2830fps, now I’m at 2760fps with the same load. I need 34.5gr to get back to 2830fps.

 

[Darkside-Six]

Mine is still shooting great, just WAY slower than I was at 200rds. My original load was 33.6gr at 2830fps, now I’m at 2760fps with the same load. I need 34.5gr to get back to 2830fps.

For what it’s worth I’m running the 109’s at 2870 and it’s a laser.

 

[samb300]

For what it’s worth I’m running the 109’s at 2870 and it’s a laser.

I'm good with them at 2830fps from a 24" barrel. It's just needing an additional 0.9gr of the same lot # of Varget to do so now is a bit odd to me, even if it is 40F colder.

I need 35.1gr to reach 2870fps.

But, I won my last match at 2785fps, so it probably doesn't even matter anyway

 

[Mordamer]

Mine is still shooting great, just WAY slower than I was at 200rds. My original load was 33.6gr at 2830fps, now I’m at 2760fps with the same load. I need 34.5gr to get back to 2830fps.

I have been through several 6mm barrels that did as you describe and lost speed. I believe it has a lot to do with throat erosion. I don't adjust my seating depth as the barrel wears and with a longer jump you tend to get a flatter pressure curve and lower velocities. Most of my 6 Dasher barrels hit max velocity at 100 to 150 rounds and lose about 15 FPS every 500 rounds after that while using the same load. My current barrel is 40 FPS lower than it was at 200 rounds, but it still shoots great. I adjust velocity as needed in my ballistic solver and don't worry about it.

 

[samb300]

I have been through several 6mm barrels that did as you describe and lost speed. I believe it has a lot to do with throat erosion. I don't adjust my seating depth as the barrel wears and with a longer jump you tend to get a flatter pressure curve and lower velocities. Most of my 6 Dasher barrels hit max velocity at 100 to 150 rounds and lose about 15 FPS every 500 rounds after that while using the same load. My current barrel is 40 FPS lower than it was at 200 rounds, but it still shoots great. I adjust velocity as needed in my ballistic solver and don't worry about it.

That's a great observation. So many people I talk to say their barrel never loses speed right until the end, or they only have 0.010" of throat erosion after 1000+ rounds. Not that that can't be true, though, it just doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

So that leads me to the question...what exactly IS a "node"? If my velocity flat spot was 33.6gr at 2830fps at 200rds, then where am I with the same load but 60fps slower at 800rds? It still shoots great with a low SD, and like you said, the throat is wearing and the bullet is jumping farther. But the bullet is no longer exiting the muzzle at the same point in the harmonic oscillation, so why is it still shooting so well? Should I add the 0.9gr more powder to stay exactly at 2830fps...or does it not matter?

Some of these are hypothetical, but real, questions. I kept the same load and shot matches at 2830, then 2815, 2800, and 2785fps. Now it's at 2765fps after 800 rounds. Do I just keep the same load till it hits 2700fps LOL? I don't necessarily care about velocity for drop, it only really matters if I lose a tenth of wind at 800yds which is the farthest my club match goes.

I have a match weekend coming up (two 1-day events) so I'll need about 200 rounds loaded. I'm seriously debating whether or not I should add a few tenths of powder. I don't have time to do a "load workup" to test for a node, so I'm thinking about going to 34.0gr to be around 2800fps and just assuming it will still shoot sub-1/2 moa.

 

[phlegethon]

But the bullet is no longer exiting the muzzle at the same point in the harmonic oscillation, so why is it still shooting so well?

Some including Bryan Litz say this theory of vertical oscillation is either totally untrue or a gross oversimplification with modern heavy barrels. On accurateshooter I just saw a target like the one you posted above, but covering 3.6 grains of charge weights for the 190 A-tips, with zero change in POI or group size. I’ve seen this myself too.

 

[Dthomas3523]

That's a great observation. So many people I talk to say their barrel never loses speed right until the end, or they only have 0.010" of throat erosion after 1000+ rounds. Not that that can't be true, though, it just doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

So that leads me to the question...what exactly IS a "node"? If my velocity flat spot was 33.6gr at 2830fps at 200rds, then where am I with the same load but 60fps slower at 800rds? It still shoots great with a low SD, and like you said, the throat is wearing and the bullet is jumping farther. But the bullet is no longer exiting the muzzle at the same point in the harmonic oscillation, so why is it still shooting so well? Should I add the 0.9gr more powder to stay exactly at 2830fps...or does it not matter?

Some of these are hypothetical, but real, questions. I kept the same load and shot matches at 2830, then 2815, 2800, and 2785fps. Now it's at 2765fps after 800 rounds. Do I just keep the same load till it hits 2700fps LOL? I don't necessarily care about velocity for drop, it only really matters if I lose a tenth of wind at 800yds which is the farthest my club match goes.

I have a match weekend coming up (two 1-day events) so I'll need about 200 rounds loaded. I'm seriously debating whether or not I should add a few tenths of powder. I don't have time to do a "load workup" to test for a node, so I'm thinking about going to 34.0gr to be around 2800fps and just assuming it will still shoot sub-1/2 moa.

I think for our purposes “nodes” and “load development“ is almost trivial.

Modern components being so good + chronograph quality + practical target size really takes the need for nodes out.

IMO, the biggest reason for nodes in the past was the possibility of charges not being perfect as well as not being able to get a super accurate velocity. You needed a node to make up for that margin of error with those two factors.

I have yet to hear of anyone losing a practical target size match because they weren’t in a “node.”

If you have a good BC for you bullet and your software setup for that, all you really need is a good chrono speed for the day.

Of course if you’ve had to lie to your software about the MV, that changes things unless it’s a linear difference and you can tweak the velocity accordingly.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Some including Bryan Litz say this theory of vertical oscillation is either totally untrue or a gross oversimplification with modern heavy barrels. On accurateshooter I just saw a target like the one you posted above, but covering 3.6 grains of charge weights for the 190 A-tips, with zero change in POI or group size. I’ve seen this myself too.

Yet I can take a straight taper barrel, screw a tuner in and out, or strap a magneto on it, and change things enough to see a difference.

My observations are that it’s a barrel to barrel variation. Some are more sensitive to harmonic type stuff than others.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Some including Bryan Litz say this theory of vertical oscillation is either totally untrue or a gross oversimplification with modern heavy barrels. On accurateshooter I just saw a target like the one you posted above, but covering 3.6 grains of charge weights for the 190 A-tips, with zero change in POI or group size. I’ve seen this myself too.

Not to mention, no one has been able to give a better theory on why a rifle that has been tuned at say 1k yds consistently shoots a group smaller that what is possible with the velocities measured on each shot.

I’m all for being convinced it doesn’t exist. But provide a new theory in why this happens. It’s consistent enough that it’s not chance or luck.

 

[phlegethon]

Not to mention, no one has been able to give a better theory on why a rifle that has been tuned at say 1k yds consistently shoots a group smaller that what is possible with the velocities measured on each shot.

Is it consistent? An extreme spread of velocity of 20 fps at 2850 produces 5 inches of vertical spread at 1000 yards. That's about what you typically see in 1000 yard benchrest competition results (see http://www.pa1000yard.com for some recent examples). Yes, there are occasional records that are much smaller, but they are rare enough that it's easily explained by lucky clusters of velocity spread.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Is it consistent? An extreme spread of velocity of 20 fps at 2850 produces 5 inches of vertical spread at 1000 yards. That's about what you typically see in 1000 yard benchrest competition results (see http://www.pa1000yard.com for some recent examples). Yes, there are occasional records that are much smaller, but they are rare enough that it's easily explained by lucky clusters of velocity spread.

Yes, I’ve lost count the amount of groups I’ve seen that are smaller than the velocity recorded by Labradars account for.

It’s much more noticeable when guys are shooting moa or better groups at 1k with ES’s that don’t allow for that and are being recorded with chrono each shot.

Your example is a bad one as you’re giving an example of an ES that allows for a 5” group and a 5” group being shot.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Hell, by Litz’s opinion, he’s just out there hoping to get lucky at ELR he shoots.

He talks about shooting targets that are smaller than their ES allows. And then says he doesn’t believe in positive compensation.

So, does he think they are just lobbing shit and hoping to get lucky? Because that’s what you’re doing if your velocity variance is larger than the target and you don’t believe in positive compensation. You’re just lucky.

 

[phlegethon]

Yes, I’ve lost count the amount of groups I’ve seen that are smaller than the velocity recorded by Labradars account for.

It’s much more noticeable when guys are shooting moa or better groups at 1k with ES’s that don’t allow for that and are being recorded with chrono each shot.

Your example is a bad one as you’re giving an example of an ES that allows for a 5” group and a 5” group being shot.

Well, without seeing the data and the conditions under which it was collected, it's hard to really go anywhere with that. I think precision shooting is largely stuck in the dark ages, with most of our practices based on oral tradition, anecdote, and statistically invalid observations. I think at the very least the vertical oscillation theory does not always apply, and no one seems to be able to predict the conditions under which it does. Otherwise we should see consistent sinusoidal change in POI with change in powder charge, and that's definitely not always the case. If it were enough to affect group size at 1k then it should be observable even at 100.

Hell, by Litz’s opinion, he’s just out there hoping to get lucky at ELR he shoots.

He talks about shooting targets that are smaller than their ES allows. And then says he doesn’t believe in positive compensation.

So, does he think they are just lobbing shit and hoping to get lucky? Because that’s what you’re doing if your velocity variance is larger than the target and you don’t believe in positive compensation. You’re just lucky.

I'm not sure what he would say, but yes, I think it's almost beyond dispute that luck is a massive part of ELR shooting. You have to be performing at a pretty high level to be able to benefit from that luck, but the hit rates are well below 50% for serious ELR shooting. I call that luck.

 

[samb300]

This is an awesome discussion. I won't claim to know the science behind what a muzzle tuner can and can't do in regards to "tuning out" muzzle velocity variation. I have had good luck over the years with heavy palma and now an MTU, always using a TBAC ultra 7. I find using a magnetospeed shifts my POI but not my group size, so that's my only experience with something extra added to the muzzle beyond a suppressor.

My question was really if the barrel is slowing down, and the bullet is exiting "X" milliseconds later than when it was originally in tune, is it still in a node? Or in tune? (or whatever you want to call it) To @Dthomas3523 's point, if the vertical spread on target is less than the spread induced by velocity ES, then something else has to be going on. Is it simply that when the load is in tune OR a tuner is used, that the bullet exits the muzzle at the same vertical position in regards to oscillation?

Could a 1/4 MOA rifle with a 40 fps ES and a tuner have less vertical than an identical 1/4 MOA rifle with a 20 fps ES and no tuner?

 

[Ledzep]

I think for our purposes “nodes” and “load development“ is almost trivial.

Modern components being so good + chronograph quality + practical target size really takes the need for nodes out.

IMO, the biggest reason for nodes in the past was the possibility of charges not being perfect as well as not being able to get a super accurate velocity. You needed a node to make up for that margin of error with those two factors.

I have yet to hear of anyone losing a practical target size match because they weren’t in a “node.”

.....

IME, nodes don't exist as most people think of them and how much of the load data/workup dogma suggests.

Disclaimer: I've only tested this in a couple of different barrels, and only in 6.5 Creedmoor with 140 ELDM's. Things may be different in other circumstances, even if I doubt it.

Without exception what I've seen is accuracy remains in a happy spot in a powder charge ladder, let's say .6-.9 MOA, until a point, and after that point, increasing powder charge increases group size. I have never seen dispersion come back in to a "high node", even when I go several grains over max published data. The single best group I've ever shot in my life was at 2650fps which printed 20 rounds at 1.01" at 200yd. Most stuff comes in right around 1 MOA +/- .3 MOA.

As far as ELR goes, it is gambling. Hit probability on a 1 MOA target drops to unfavorable past 500yd with most setups. Beyond 1000 it's something like 5-20% in most situations for a 1st round hit. Past a mile, your best bet is to fire 5-10 rounds before you make any adjustment so you have an idea of how big the cone of fire is, and where it's centered first. From what I've seen you are extremely luck to get ES of under 35fps (I'm not talking about 5-10 rounds, I mean every single round you fire over 50-100 shots in a match, for example) in any rifle, and from a shoulder-fired rifle you're doing very well to have everything within a 1 MOA cone of fire. I would say .5-.75 MOA (again, consistently) is in the realm of excellence.

If you believe you have a .25-.5 MOA rifle, shoot more rounds and you won't, I almost guarantee it. Even if you tell me your rifle is capable, but you aren't-- I start off doubtful that the rifle is capable-- but that aside, what does it matter if the rifle is capable and you aren't? You're still not holding the dispersion you want to/claim to.

Vertical compensation is theoretically physically possible but I question the ability to reliably tune it. Having seen velocity/pressure spreads out of accuracy fixtures and pressure barrels, I find it very hard to believe that barrel tuners or 'tuning' powder charges achieves the suggested output to create a mechanical system that compensates elevation spread at distance. I could be wrong but I'm extremely doubtful. Both seating depth and barrel tuners are on my list of things to play with for large sample size testing.

 

[Ledzep]

Another caveat that I have is I question the resolution of chronographs. Even Labradars. I've shot in fixed-screen Oehler setups with Labradars and Magnetospeeds all at the same time for the same shots and while they trend the same, the variance between each is different shot-to-shot, indicating a noise level of somewhere around 5-15fps (which I'm sure depends on conditions) that makes it hard to say with certainty that vertical spread at range does not coincide with displayed MV. That said, I tend to believe in Labradars the most, provided your muzzle blast is not moving the unit around.

 

[GoferDog]

All I'm saying is, you really haven't shared any data.
3 shot groups at 100 yards all but insignificant unless you're shooting 3 shot groups at 100 yards.

There is always one peanut

 

[Rockdoc173]

I usually start my loads off at 0.010" and it's worked fine mored times than not. I'm running the ATips in my 6CM with H4350 and 0.010" off and it's been a good thing. Just a thought...