115 grains DTAC vs 105 berger hybrid

[Az4z3L]

So.....

I just ordered 115 grs DTAC for my 6mm Creedmoor and I'm amazed by the quality. I measured COAL and CBTO, weighted a lot of them and the quality control is amazing. I’m a big fan of Berger hybrid bullets but I might change team soon enough.

I will start loading them in a week or so and see the results. Hoping its going to be as good or better than my Berger 105.

Any of you guys can share your experience with both those bullets ??

Thanks
Mario

 

[hairy_pineapple588]

Interested in hearing others opinions.

 

[LRDD]

Both bullets are great. I have shot a lot of DTACs. I did receive an order once that were different lot numbers and the rebated boat tail was completely different between the lots. The load for one didn't cross over to the other. Now when I order I just buy enough to burn a barrel out. Bergers are the standard to me in 6mm, they are the easy button. I have noticed a good bit of difference in BTO between lot numbers since the were bought out. DTACs at 3080fps are the truth and look good on steel.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Wait till you shoot them, at distance. You will learn why everyone shoots bergers.

Lot to lot variation is also all over the place. Woth yellow box, lot doesn't matter.

 

[SmileMaker]

Berger 105s in a 6XC @ 1000 yds. I have a box of the coated 115 DTACs but didn't perform as well at the 105s in my rifle.

 

[drglock]

I’m on my second barrel in a 6GT shooting DTACS. When I order DTACS for a new barrel I order 2500 of the same lot so I never have to switch lots on a barrel. Regardless of what @DeathBeforeDismount says they perform exceptionally well at distance.

@Average guy can put his two cents in as well.

 

[Covertnoob5]

I love DTACs but I will say lot to lot variation is a thing with them. Order enough for a barrel and you should be good.

 

[Shoots 700's]

Berger would be my preferred choice

 

[Cody S]

generally dtacs don't group as tight at 100 yards as bergers do, but they aren't far off. they shine at elr distances.
I buy and use both, depending on how tight I want my gun to group.

 

[Hickswr]

I’ve never shot DTACS but on paper they ballistically smoke a 105 hybrid at distance.

However I’ve yet to hear someone say they won a 2-day PRS event with DTACS, it’s always Bergers or the guys sponsored by Hornady.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

There is a huge difference between what a ballistic calculator spits out and what actually happens down range.

If you actually got out and shot, you would know this. But you rather run your cock holster.

If .bc was king than everyone would be shooting 153 bergers and atips. Or 110 atips and 115 DTAC.

Hell most of the top shooters don't even run 109 bergers becuase despite it's superior bc, the 105 hybrids beat it in BC consistency. You know, the thing that actually matters.

BC consistency is way more important than raw BC.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

I’ve never shot DTACS but on paper they ballistically smoke a 105 hybrid at distance.

However I’ve yet to hear someone say they won a 2-day PRS event with DTACS, it’s always Bergers or the guys sponsored by Hornady.

That's called a clue.

 

[Shoots 700's]

The Berger consistency is what matters. DTACS have to much of a variation

 

[LRDD]

Pretty sure Bryan Morgan won couple matches shooting DTACs when they first came out with the new rebated boat tail design. That was back in the day before they started having lot variation and they were consistent.

 

[kthomas]

Pretty sure Bryan Morgan won couple matches shooting DTACs when they first came out with the new rebated boat tail design. That was back in the day before they started having lot variation and they were consistent.

Chase Stroud and others have won a fair share of early PRS matches with DTACs.

 

[Criver600]

Long time NRA Long Range competitor, Leica spotting scope. I've watched thousands of rounds going down range. For years Sierra 168 MK were the worst flying (excessive precession) they do not fly "point on" looked like a broken boat propeller. Then started seeing DTAC 6mm's, they took the crown. They can be accurate enough but never saw one fly without excessive yaw. Very easy to see, but never lives up to its calculated BC

 

[Lightning8]

DTACs suck - do not buy them so they are available for me at a much better price point than Bergers. I just ran 2400 through a Proof 6 Dasher prefit this season and swapped into a new Proof 6 Dasher prefit that will see DTACs again.

 

[JustSendit]

Long time NRA Long Range competitor, Leica spotting scope. I've watched thousands of rounds going down range. For years Sierra 168 MK were the worst flying (excessive precession) they do not fly "point on" looked like a broken boat propeller. Then started seeing DTAC 6mm's, they took the crown. They can be accurate enough but never saw one fly without excessive yaw. Very easy to see, but never lives up to its calculated BC

Are you seeing the excessive yaw and boat propeller type movement from trace? Or on paper? Curious how you’re identifying a projectile that has a certain signature of yaw.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Per Applied Ballistics data
Berger 105 Hybrid BC variation is .011g7
Berger 109 Hybrid BC variation is .014g7
DTAC 115 BC variation is .014g7

The Dtac is a good projectile. Those worried about the .003 difference can measure and sort the bullets by total length and drop that variation down a significant amount... enough to see the difference on target at 1000 with any bullet I've troubled myself with to test, including Berger.

 

[Criver600]

Are you seeing the excessive yaw and boat propeller type movement from trace? Or on paper? Curious how you’re identifying a projectile that has a certain signature of yaw.

Both

 

[todd]

I shot 105's at 3004 out of my GT. I wanted to work on spotting impacts on the plate better so I was fooling around in JBM and it showed that a 115 at 2725 would have the same wind drift as a 105 at 3000, but would take about 1/10th of a second longer to reach targets past about 550 yards *(give or take), giving me a *touch* more time to see the impacts with the 115's vs the 105's.

Plus, to get the 115's to 2725 I only need 31.0g Varget vs 33.6g to get the 105's to 3000. (28" Hawk Hill 1:7)

I'm pleased with the results and haven't gone back to the 105's.

 

[CK1.0]

I far and away prefer DTACs to Berger Hybrid 105s. The lot to lot consistency may not be as consistent as Berger’s, but I always buy in bulk so that’s never affected me. With the lots I’ve shot, the BCs have always been very consistent, always a G7 of .300+ that didn’t vary much.

But I only shoot out to 1250 yards every time I practice, that may not be far enough to see the inconsistency that’s been mentioned. There are some that place more emphasis on shooting the same bullets their heroes the sponsored pros shoot, paying more for a certain color box to do so (instead of getting them for free or discounted like their heroes do), and those guys need lot to lot consistency more than I do since they can only buy 1 box of 500 at a time before all the other followers serious competitors buy them all up.

 

[Cody S]

dtac lot to lot consistency isn't a factor if you buy 5k at a time.
intra lot consistency is all I care about, and they are decent. they don't group as good as bergers for me but they're good enough for most disciplines. it's often like 1/8th moa vs 1/4moa or something in that neighborhood. not a big deal.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

Per Applied Ballistics data
Berger 105 Hybrid BC variation is .011g7
Berger 109 Hybrid BC variation is .014g7
DTAC 115 BC variation is .014g7

The Dtac is a good projectile. Those worried about the .003 difference can measure and sort the bullets by total length and drop that variation down a significant amount... enough to see the difference on target at 1000 with any bullet I've troubled myself with to test, including Berger.

Where is this data from? PDM info? You have to look at it across lots. Within Lot variation will obviously be tighter.

 

[Niles Coyote]

Where is this data from? PDM info? You have to look at it across lots. Within Lot variation will obviously be tighter.

If your a subscriber it can be found here

https://thescienceofaccuracy.com/popular-bullet-guides/

 

[Cody S]

Both

perhaps you aren't twisting them enough? try a 7.5 or 7 twist and the bc should be higher also.
seems a lot like the people who hate dtacs are screwing something up or have never tried them in the first place.
or perhaps they own stock in another manufacturer

 

[Niles Coyote]

perhaps you aren't twisting them enough? try a 7.5 or 7 twist and the bc should be higher also.

This ^ with the development of the 109 eld I've started ordering my barrels all 7.25t as I often have zero to negative DA's to shoot from for half the year and even 7.5 can be borderline at times if your wanting to start off with a 1.5 rating.

 

[Rob01]

All my 6mm are 7 twists now. No reason not to go 7 for me. When I ran 115 DTACs back around 2004-2008 I ran a 7.5 twist and they ran good all around the country from my .243.

 

[Criver600]

perhaps you aren't twisting them enough? try a 7.5 or 7 twist and the bc should be higher also.

I've never shot a D-tac, just watched 100's going downrange while scoring NRA Long Range at 600 & 1000 yards. The 168 Sierra MK also is an underachiever ballistically. I made and shot my own bullets for years

 

[CK1.0]

Most people don't understand what stability numbers really mean (including myself, and to a certain extent Berger's twist rate stability calculator, included).

I have a friend who works in aerospace/aerodynamics and he tried to explain it to me once (I actually brought up the DTAC bullet when asking him about it). Basically, IIRC, stability numbers can sometimes be misleading, and being close to the line isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially when it comes to cutting through the air. I remember a couple of the examples he used of things that are "unstable" yet still perform great being an SR-71 and the F-16...

 

[todd]

I remember a couple of the examples he used of things that are "unstable" yet still perform great being an SR-71 and the F-16...

Kind of difficult to argue with those two platforms.

 

[CK1.0]

Kind of difficult to argue with those two platforms.

Exactly lol.

I told him I was shooting a bullet that didn't have great stability numbers (DTAC) but that they were hammering for me out to 1250 yards... but asked if I'd be better off or would get more performance moving to a bullet with "better" stability numbers? I ended up pointing him to Berger's twist rate calculator site because he wasn't quite getting what I was talking about...

He basically came back with "It's fine, don't worry about it" and then rattled off a bunch of shit way above my head why (I remembered the jets because I'm a bit of an aviation nerd).

 

[todd]

(I remembered the jets because I'm a bit of an aviation nerd lol).

I get it. I went to the Castle Air Museum in Atwater, CA and got to touch the SR-71 there. Super cool.

 

[Covertnoob5]

I’ve never shot DTACS but on paper they ballistically smoke a 105 hybrid at distance.

However I’ve yet to hear someone say they won a 2-day PRS event with DTACS, it’s always Bergers or the guys sponsored by Hornady.

Phil won the PRS Championship with 115’s in a 6CM. Morgun used 115’s for awhile in Dasher if I remember correctly. DTAC doesn’t really sponsor anyone so they wont get the same pub but those bullets have won their fair share.

 

[Covertnoob5]

That's called a clue.

Not a clue. 115’s have won their fair share of matches. Sure not as many recently but again DTAC doesn’t sponsor anyone for PRS and they don’t really contribute to PRS prize tables so not a lot of incentives to use them over something else.

 

[atombomb]

I shot 105's at 3004 out of my GT. I wanted to work on spotting impacts on the plate better so I was fooling around in JBM and it showed that a 115 at 2725 would have the same wind drift as a 105 at 3000, but would take about 1/10th of a second longer to reach targets past about 550 yards *(give or take), giving me a *touch* more time to see the impacts with the 115's vs the 105's.

Plus, to get the 115's to 2725 I only need 31.0g Varget vs 33.6g to get the 105's to 3000. (28" Hawk Hill 1:7)

I'm pleased with the results and haven't gone back to the 105's.

I want to say I ran 2820 or 2840 in my 6XC and the round/bullet shot better than I could… posted lots of 600yd targets under 4” and I’m a novice competitor. Also throat wear was minimal with H4350 and uncoated/RBT DTACS

 

[kthomas]

Not a clue. 115’s have won their fair share of matches. Sure not as many recently but again DTAC doesn’t sponsor anyone for PRS and they don’t really contribute to PRS prize tables so not a lot of incentives to use them over something else.

They don't seem very popular now, but DTACs were the shit in the early days of 6mm becoming en vogue in PRS matches.

I remember when I got into PRS ~12 or so years ago, that they were pretty ubiquitous. Back before 6 Creedmoor was even a thing, and people were shooting 6 XCs and 6x47s.

 

[steve123]

I couldn't say nowadays but back in the ancient history of 2011 and 2012 I won the AZPRC steel series both years with 6x47L using DTACS at 3004 fps.

However my best vertical at 1000Y was with 105 Berger Hybrids in 6mmBR at 2900 fps when 9 out of 10 had 1.75" vertical but strewn 9" wide. One landed 4" high of the rest. There were 5 hits right at 1.75" tall and 2" wide. That was around 6 years ago.

I don't care so much anymore so I use 107SMK in 6mmBR since I got too old to be competitive.

 

[EbTac]

I have shot 3 different lots of DTACS this year in regional PRS matches and I've never changed my load or seating depth. My waterline has always been the same no matter the lot number. My trued BC is .308