12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

[Tengu]

My brother told me about this genius kid that has taught himself calculus, algebra, geometry and trigonometry in a week , and is attending Indiana University. Its pretty amazing to say the least. Didn't see it on the forum and the story only came out four days ago. So here you go and enjoy

Link:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...relativity.html

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> A 12-year-old child prodigy has astounded university professors after grappling with some of the most advanced concepts in mathematics.
Jacob Barnett has an IQ of 170 - higher than Albert Einstein - and is now so far advanced in his Indiana university studies that professors are lining him up for a PHD research role.
The boy wonder, who taught himself calculus, algebra, geometry and trigonometry in a week, is now tutoring fellow college classmates after hours.
And now Jake has embarked on his most ambitious project yet - his own 'expanded version of Einstein's theory of relativity'.
His mother, not sure if her child was talking nonsense or genius, sent a video of his theory to the renowned Institute for Advanced Study near Princeton University.
According to the Indiana Star, Institute astrophysics professor Scott Tremaine -himself a world renowned expert - confirmed the authenticity of Jake's theory.
In an email to the family, Tremaine wrote: 'I'm impressed by his interest in physics and the amount that he has learned so far.
'The theory that he's working on involves several of the toughest problems in astrophysics and theoretical physics.
</div></div>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFmrlIEpJOE&feature=player_embedded

 

[High Binder]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

I saw that a few days ago... I know he's been on the News and late shows but I have a hard time buying it.

It's thought in some circles that Einstein stole the idea of relativity from Henri Poincaré, especially since Poincaré published the idea first... It's also thought in some circles that Einstein's first wife Mileva Maric was the real brain behind Einsteins genius...

So I wonder if this kid is legit.. and if so why haven't we heard more about him?

 

[Short-bus]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

Watching the video just made me feel even dumber than I already thought I was......thanks prick.

Branden

 

[EventHorizon]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Watching the video just made me feel even dumber than I already thought I was......thanks prick.

Branden </div></div>

lol!

Bravo sir!

 

[CE1371]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I saw that a few days ago... I know he's been on the News and late shows but I have a hard time buying it.

It's thought in some circles that Einstein stole the idea of relativity from Henri Poincaré, especially since Poincaré published the idea first... It's also thought in some circles that Einstein's first wife Mileva Maric was the real brain behind Einsteins genius...

So I wonder if this kid is legit.. and if so why haven't we heard more about him?
</div></div>

How do rumors about Einstein correlate to a question of legitimacy regarding the kid?

 

[E3C3H3O3]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

I make that kid look like a dumbass, LOL

 

[ssgp2]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

I don't get it...

Which one is better?
Windex or vinegar to clean windows...?

 

[vwhugger]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Watching the video just made me feel even dumber than I already thought I was......thanks prick.

Branden </div></div>

Don't feel bad though, the poor kid probably has to use the instruction manual to tie his shoelaces every morning.

 

[ZLBubba]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

He can't be that smart... he's wearing a Jacksonville Jaguars hat!

 

[--BLACKOUT--]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

I read that article a few days ago on yahoo.com and I'm talking a college course on SPED and right now we're talking about the exceptionally gifted people that are 2% of the population. This kid seems to be one of those people and it would be amazing to see what this kid is capable of.

A common reaction to a very smart person is to discredit that person out of jealousy... a small topic also covered in the class. Weird?? haha

 

[Legba]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

I bet the first time he gets laid he becomes a slobbering idiot like the rest of us.

 

[High Binder]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CE1371</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I saw that a few days ago... I know he's been on the News and late shows but I have a hard time buying it.

It's thought in some circles that Einstein stole the idea of relativity from Henri Poincaré, especially since Poincaré published the idea first... It's also thought in some circles that Einstein's first wife Mileva Maric was the real brain behind Einsteins genius...

So I wonder if this kid is legit.. and if so why haven't we heard more about him?
</div></div>

How do rumors about Einstein correlate to a question of legitimacy regarding the kid?
</div></div>

OP's post:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Skyclad Shinobi</div><div class="ubbcode-body">his own 'expanded version of Einstein's theory of relativity'. </div></div>

The point was to buttress my statement questioning the validity of this boy's abilities in terms of his now/future abilities to modify anything Einstein. See some people doubt that Einstein was the brain he is portrayed to be and think that there could have been a smart wife behind the scenes. We already know that he "borrowed" theories from Henri Poincaré who is the father of relativity.

I dunno either way, but I think it's worth playing devils advocate so we don't become complacent and blindly accept things at face value...

I've taken those classes all the way through Games Theory and I still don't know what the hell half those classes were talking about so if he does more power to him but all I saw was Pre-Calc/Calc 1 on a window and it's going to take a whole lot more than that to add anything to Einsteins theories. Point is, I think the press has over-glorified this kid. I wish I was at his level when I was his age, the kids obviously a Doogie Houser but to even begin to compare his abilities (or the expectations of his future abilities) to Einsteins is just media hype. Only time will tell but I think Einstein's place at the top is quite safe.

 

[blakheaven]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

Hmm interesting. They are thinking a kid with only a calc background (a baby level math class) has the ability to understand "true" relativity. I would love to see this kids version of the extended tensor.
As far as einsein stealing his theories thats ridiculous. He was the first one to throw out absolute time and extend that thought through classical physics. (dx/dt) Others came close but didn't put it together.

 

[High Binder]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakheaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
As far as einsein stealing his theories thats ridiculous. He was the first one to throw out absolute time and extend that thought through classical physics. (dx/dt) Others came close but didn't put it together. </div></div>

Poincaré did in fact introduce and publish the modern principles of relativity some months before Einstein's version and Einstein "borrowed" Poincarés synchronization. I don't know the details (perhaps we're talking apples and oranges) maybe you can fill in the details. The way I understand it was that Einstein simply built off the foundation that Poincaré created but Poincaré did the heavy lifting in the field of relativity, yet Einstein gets all the credit.

 

[blakheaven]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

Galileo is actually the first to come up with special relativity, and Poincare indeed continued off of that, but both Poincare and Galileo did not take what they had found and apply the meaning to classical physics ie throwing out Newton's laws because Newton makes the incorrect postulate that time is constant. Hence the F=m dv/dt or any of the other equations holding time constant.
Einstein did. He also came up with transformation equations, and explained that electric forces and magnetic forces were indeed the same thing depending upon the observer.
I 100 percent agree with you though High Binder, it is hype to even try and say a child with his limited mathematic background comes close to Einstein (maybe in the future)

 

[Maggot]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

Best reply.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Legba</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I bet the first time he gets laid he becomes a slobbering idiot like the rest of us.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakheaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Galileo is actually the first to come up with special relativity, and Poincare indeed continued off of that, but both Poincare and Galileo did not take what they had found and apply the meaning to classical physics ie throwing out Newton's laws because Newton makes the incorrect postulate that time is constant. Hence the F=m dv/dt or any of the other equations holding time constant.
Einstein did. He also came up with transformation equations, and explained that electric forces and magnetic forces were indeed the same thing depending upon the observer.
I 100 percent agree with you though High Binder, it is hype to even try and say a child with his limited mathematic background comes close to Einstein (maybe in the future) </div></div>

I dont have the math(and because of that limited physics) but as a philosophy student ive read a lot of Aristotle whos holds there is no absolute time. As he, Aristotle, put it, "Time is but the measure of repetitive motion". In his day the revolution of the moon around the earth, the earth around the sun, etc. Today I think it the half life of the ceisium atom. But the bottom line is there is only the continum of existance. Time is just something man dreamed up to distract himself....the past is closed, the future but our creation. All that really counts is how you live in the NOW. Honorably or otherwise.

Interesting speculations. I wasnt aware of Galileo's contribution here, though I know he was forced by the church to recant many of hes theories as heritical. Fortunately his work survived their inquisitions.

But will mankind survive religon? Its looking shakey.

 

[High Binder]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakheaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Galileo is actually the first to come up with special relativity, and Poincare indeed continued off of that, but both Poincare and Galileo did not take what they had found and apply the meaning to classical physics ie throwing out Newton's laws because Newton makes the incorrect postulate that time is constant. Hence the F=m dv/dt or any of the other equations holding time constant.
Einstein did. He also came up with transformation equations, and explained that electric forces and magnetic forces were indeed the same thing depending upon the observer. </div></div>


Imagine what we'll know in another 500 years from now. Heck, 60 years ago it was thought that breaking the sound barrier was impossible...

 

[Maggot]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: High Binder</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: blakheaven</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Galileo is actually the first to come up with special relativity, and Poincare indeed continued off of that, but both Poincare and Galileo did not take what they had found and apply the meaning to classical physics ie throwing out Newton's laws because Newton makes the incorrect postulate that time is constant. Hence the F=m dv/dt or any of the other equations holding time constant.
Einstein did. He also came up with transformation equations, and explained that electric forces and magnetic forces were indeed the same thing depending upon the observer. </div></div>

30 years ago.......whats an internet?......5, whats a Facebook?


Imagine what we'll know in another 500 years from now. Heck, 60 years ago it was thought that breaking the sound barrier was impossible... </div></div>

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

I'm not in a position to judge this, but it holds my interest and I'm willing to wait and see.

I, too, see a value to Devil's Advocacy, and not taking currently popular views without seeing the evidence. I think that science has already taken stuff at face value and built upon it that I would have considered at best to be very shaky.

I'm not qualified to pass judgement; but I just gotta say, a lot of what passes for cosmology these days seems flat out screwy to me. Some of it comes across rather a lot like the Emperor's clothes to me.

Greg

 

[sharac]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it is hype to even try and say a child with his limited mathematic background comes close to Einstein (maybe in the future)</div></div>

I'm pretty sure it won't be burped out while eating his cereals and watching CartoonNetwork however sometimes a fresh and untainted (with formal education) approach combined might yield something else. Still it's funny how people think special theory of relativity (or even unified theory) would be something one can easily "imagine" (try topography classes) as math behind it is some serious shit (maybe 20 people on the planet are capable of understanding it). If the kid has the "math wired brains" and interest in it he just might pull something new out of the Makers hat.

But yeah if he gets some action forget the relativity and string theories (minus the G ones) and How its made... (for Gods).

 

[Switchblade]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

Pick up a copy of Einstein's Telescope and read it. If you are having trouble understanding it, PM me and I'll set up a phone session with you and my youngest son who at age 12 will school you on astrophysics and the basics of astro science(got me where it came from, maybe skipped a generation and came from the grandparents or something)

 

[ubet]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

I failed whatever class teaches the quadratic formula, 6 times in a row, yeah, math isnt my thing.

 

[blakheaven]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

Einstein himself said any intelligent HS student could understand special relativity, (maybe not here in the states so much anymore) but the claim of astro physics and undermining Copenhagen Quantum mechanics is ridiculous cause unlike special relativity that leaves out acceleration (of gravity) the mathematics requires the use of tensor fields instead of simple multivariate calculus. EI from special relativity you learn by applying the postulate time is no longer a constant that distance itself is no longer a constant so plotting point is three (or four) dimension space cannot be done accurately by just using XYZ (or t) so the use of tensor (a ten point system) was used by Einstein, and this is deep graduate level study, and congrats to the 12 year old for his accomplishments so far, but like my first post says, I would love to see his "new" tensor or his new method of dealing quantum possibilities.

 

[Short-bus]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

An 'ol saying we had in the army. He might be smarter than me but I can still kick his ass.

Branden

 

[Maggot]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Greg Langelius *</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think that science has already taken stuff at face value and built upon it that I would have considered at best to be very shaky.

I'm not qualified to pass judgement; but I just gotta say, a lot of what passes for cosmology these days seems flat out screwy to me. Some of it comes across rather a lot like the Emperor's clothes to me.

Greg </div></div>

I must say I agree with you here,Greg. I took astronomy classes to fulfill my science credits and would have a good laugh at my profs when they talked about "space folding upon itself". They just couldnt understand, with all their Phds that space, true space, is actually exactly nothing but potential, and how can you fold nothing upon itself. They didnt appreciate my humor but must admit that they graded my papers fairly which is more than I can say for the profs in my own dept. Modern day philosophers are a narrowminded little lot.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

I agree to a point.

I am an HS Grad with an IQ that tests out to about 140 with boring regularity.

I was also extremely fortunate to be invited to take extra credit HS Summer classes at the Newark NJ Museum/Planetarium under G. Harry Stine.

We did Solar Optical Astronomy with the Museum's 8" instrument, and were assigned night Astronomy home problems involving plotting the Galilean Moons of Jupiter where I employed my own Gilbert 3" reflector. The courses involved Astronomy, Cosmology, Keplerian Physics, and Space Medicine; or as much as might be reasonably assimilated by a relatively bright HS Junior. Much of the course work was pace-as-we-go; and we ended up rather a bit ahead of our projected achievements. Exceptional class.

So this stuff has always fascinated me, and I have tried to stay current. Unfortunately, Cosmology seems to me to have jumped the rails somewhere in the mid-late 1970's.

I still try to review it and 'get it'; but somehow, alternative approaches seem far simpler and practical. The more I look into such things, the more I am reminded of the apparently growing gap between Astronomy and Cosmology.

I see Astronomy as observation, and Cosmology as becoming pretty much speculation. Sometime downright loopy (if you ask me, and I absolutely refuse to accept that one can conduct 'Astronomy' miles beneath the Earth in a mine shaft). Reminds me of Cryptozoology and Parapsychology. That glass is not half empty, it's missing altogether.

Being less formally trained, and more a product of independent research using publicly available references, I recognize it can be just as easy to form unsupported conclusions. But right now, based on what I can establish with relative certainty; that may not be putting me into any sort of back seat at all.

I lately and too often think we are afloat upon a sea that's composed of far too much conjecture, and far too little well-founded certainty. I think this blissful blurring of the lines between reality and speculation is simply another manifestation of the less tangible reasons why modern society is about to go under for the third time...

I often consider that nothing short of another Dark Age will persuade humanity to recalibrate its sense of proportion. Regrettable, but when the horse flatly won't drink, perhaps more drastic action must be considered...?

Greg

 

[beachhair234]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

I'm not sure what you are all being negative about. Whats the worst that could happen? He's found to be a fraud and becomes a social outcast the rest of his life. Think of the possiblities if he isn't...

 

[rero360]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

I happened to have the tv on FOX yesterday and turns out the kid was on Glenn Beck (which i don't normally watch since he's gone off the deep end). What they were saying is that he has aspergers syndrome, which makes sense.

However, from listening to the parents it seems like they have good heads on their shoulders and the kid should be able to grow up enjoying his childhood and be able to reach his full potential.

The way I see it, even if the kid doesn't bring about the next huge breakthrough, he'll still do some awesome stuff.

I agree with Greg in that there does seem to be a lot of conjecture these days, although there probably always were. What I don't get is how these guys can talk about these various theories like they are fact. Although my knowledge and comprehension of all of it is very little.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

Mine too, but I just can't sort out my own ignorance from the more outrageous assumptions.

Greg

 

[N2DADARK]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

PLEASE DONT GET THIS KID A X-BOX.... GIVE HIM AS MANY PENS PENCILS BOOKS AND CALCULATORS HIS LITTLE HEART DESIRES!

 

[ArcticLight]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

Alien implant...

 

[Maggot]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ArcticLight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Alien implant... </div></div>

I think thats Shankster.

 

[Clark]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

I was driving my son to day care, beginning one of my blow hard science lectures, and asked him, "What is the inverse tangent of one?"
He responded in baby talk, "Fo tee fi degwees."
I yelled at him, "How the HELL did you know that?"
He responded in baby talk, "I knew that fo tee fi degwees was a swope of one hudwed pu cent."

What does it all mean?
Little kids can learn much faster outside the education system.

 

[sdkidaho]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to his parents Jake has trouble sleeping at night as he constantly sees numbers in his head.

But far from complaining, Jake has turned the sleepless nights to his advantage - <span style="font-weight: bold">debunking the big bang theory</span>.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dust_Remover</div><div class="ubbcode-body">An 'ol saying we had in the army. He might be smarter than me but I can still kick his ass.

Branden </div></div>

I'll bet you can whip a LOT of 12 year olds.

 

[Maggot]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Clark</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I was driving my son to day care, beginning one of my blow hard science lectures, and asked him, "What is the inverse tangent of one?"
He responded in baby talk, "Fo tee fi degwees."
I yelled at him, "How the HELL did you know that?"
He responded in baby talk, "I knew that fo tee fi degwees was a swope of one hudwed pu cent."

What does it all mean?
Little kids can learn much faster outside the education system. </div></div>

I t could mean that your kid will be taking Frank's place as commandant.

 

[Short-bus]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sdkidaho</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'll bet you can whip a LOT of 12 year olds.

</div></div>

Yep, right up until their dads beat the crap out of me, lol.

Branden

 

[Jig Stick]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

One look at wet side boob and math will be the last thing on his mind

 

[border_reiver]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

The kid does have an issue, he's autistic. Think Rain Man. His brain is wired a bit differently, he sees and understands formulae like some people can type without looking at the keys, it's automatic. Very interesting in a 'child' who doesn't have the baggage of knowing too many other things. And what is interesting as well he understands the concept and has the ability to expand the concept. I hope he doesn't become a toy and is left alone to do things at his pace.

 

[vwhugger]

Re: 12 yr old boy plans to expand Einstein theory

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Jig Stick</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One look at wet side boob and math will be the last thing on his mind </div></div>

I wonder if the square root of 69 has ever ran through his mind. Hmmm.