12x or 15x or 18x

F

FlyFishermanUGA

Private
Minuteman
May 13, 2019
15
10
#1
I’m thinking about upgrading my spotting game and I have a Vortex Viper 15x45 spotting scope and 8x binos. This weekend I put my 8x Vortex Razors on a tripod and I was happy at how well I could see impacts from 300-1000 yards on steel. Over 600 it was harder to see where on the target the shots were impacting but I could see trace reasonably well. I also noticed that my eyes weren’t as tired after the session and I had so much more awareness due to the field of view. It helped with changing wind calls that we were having to make.

My use would be spotting only from 300-1200 yards at the range and general hunting glassing off of tripod (our rifle range turns into one of the best stands during the whitetail rut). Also I shoot 3-gun and some PRS so I was hoping to be able to use a new set to take the place of having to carry my spotting scope all the time and use to spot for those matches.

I don’t need a recommendation on brands but it’s more like a theoretical question on what magnification (12, 15 or 18x) would you choose given the variables: tripod mounted, 300-1200 yards, need to see trace and general target finding and hit detection.

I’m keeping my spotting scope for paper and I hunt mostly in the east so finding white tails and turkeys in the eastern woods will keep me using 8x for general hunting.


Fly
 
#4
I've been pondering a similar question, do I choose between an 18x56 set of binos or a small spotter like the Kowa TSN-553. The appeal of the bino is it's so much easier on my eyes vs. squinting through the spotter for extended periods. This article https://www.rokslide.com/the-maven-b-5-18x56-binoculars/ has almost convinced me to go the bino route, but I still wonder if having the extended magnification range of the spotter would be better in the long run.

With regard to the question the OP asks, 12x, 15x or 18x I would think the 12x would be a bit low for longer ranges, especially with trying to identify hits on steel, that leaves the 15x and 18x and I think 18x has the advantage, yes, it will have less FOV but the Maven and Vortex UHD have very generous FOV's for their magnification. If you have the opportunity to try before you buy that might be the best route, put them both on tripods outside the store and see which your eyes like best.
 
#5
I am a big fan of bino's for spotting, I like the 10 because I can see trace so well and I can still see impacts. I tried a pair of 15's and they worked well but I wouldn't go over that, I turn my spotter down to 20 when I use it and I think is too much sometimes.
 
#8
Anyone think 18x would be a hinderance due to FOV for spotting PRS and transitioning between target areas? They appear to have at least a 50ft reduction in FOV over a 15x.
 
#9
That's interesting as I think most would seem higher magnification helps to spot trace. Would love to see 15x and 18x side by side in same conditions and same location behind shooter to really identify if one has a distinct advantage over another. I'm still inclined to go the 18X route, but you have caused me to think about this a little more.
 
#10

My intention later this fall is to do a side by side with a set of SLC 15 and the B5 18. My
only concern with the 18x is the reduction in field of view and strain from trying to stay in the eye box for extended amounts of time.
 
#11
I think another thing to consider when watching trace is how deep the focus plane is. Some binos have a relatively shallow plane of focus and others allow you to see more of the near field. I think being able to see near field helps you pick up trace sooner and follow it more effectively.
 
#12
I'm also weighing out these features.

The 12x is out for me. I think they do ok, but lack the horsepower I am looking for.

I'm trying to decide between the 15x56 Steiner HX, or the 18x56 Vortex Kaibab. Both seem like a decent quality optic in a similar price point.
 
#13
Steiner does a really bad job of marketing their HX line and I found very little about the design of the HX, the best review I've found so far that goes into the details is here - https://www.bestbinocularsreviews.com/Steiner-HX-15x56-Binoculars-Review-226.htm While not "ED" bino's, he goes into detail on how well these are made and how they compare very favorably to many other ED designs. If I were looking at a 15x I think these would definitely be in the running, especially for the price.

The Kaibab's also get really good reviews and are even a bit cheaper and offer 18x

Here's a quick spec list I've put together


Edit: Updated the list to include the Meopta 15x56
 
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#14
I think your assessment on the Steiner is spot on Bill. From what little I have heard about the Steiners, they are an excellent bino. But they have very little presence.

They should be getting mentioned alongside the Leupold, the Meopta, and the Razors/Kaibab as a good less expensive bino alternative to the Swaros.

That's a great comparison, by the way. Thanks for sharing it.
 
#16
I had the opportunity to look through some 18x Kaibabs at the last PRS match I went to. I watched a few shooters go through. They do seem like a decent binocular.

But I have to admit, I kinda have my heart set on those 15×56 Steiner HX. The German made with the Schott glass and and Schott N-BaK1 prism just sounds like a good combination for a quality bino.

I'll get them around mid September, I'll give some feedback on them.
 
#21
Swaro 12x50 EL’s

I find they are superior in actual FOV, IQ to the Swaro 15x56 HD’s.

I can see trace regularly with the 12’s and often with my swaro 8x42 slc hd’s. The BTX is amazingly easy to spot trace.

I think superior glass trumps magnification in most cases, so if one is limited by price point I would go with lower magnification with the best glass possible.
 
#23
I mentioned $$ as a potential limiting factor; even though the OP did not mention budget.

The OP stated usage for detailed hunting applications with tripod, PRS and 3 gun.

Hunting definitely requires superior image quality and detail in low light conditions - as well as deep shade in the daytime to spot color/movement/detail that you otherwise miss.

If none of that matters to the OP, then in reality we are talking budget, not results.

Do the math on those 3 sports and $2800 is chump change when you subtract 1K spent on inferior glass, thousands on consumables such as gasoline, PRS barrels, ammunition and match fees.

Great glass doesn’t wear out and actually reduces ammo and other expenditures in the long run in addition to giving the user the best results possible.

I have shown these pics before, however it is a great example of what I find with great glass - while other hunters miss out on the experience.

 
#24
That buck in the rocks is awesome, and I know what you mean about great glass vs. good glass. I remember reading recently (forget where) but someone had done extensive tests between high end 8x/10x/12x binos and there was nothing they could see with the 12x that they couldn't see with the 8x - again keeping in mind comparing best of the best. I don't have nearly the experience that some of you guys do on here, but between 8x and 10x, with good glass I would agree. If you already own a good set of 10x bino's then 12x doesn't seem to make much sense, and some would say 15x either which is why I'd lean toward 18x if I want to improve upon my ability to spot when I already have a 10x set. I suppose one could argue that 15x is going to have more FOV, but isn't that what your 10x bino is for, scan and look and then when you want to see detail, that's when you put on the 18x.
 
#25

I owned the Mavens before my SLCs, and i will say, try them before you commit, the eye cups are huge and hard plastic. For me, they were very uncomfortable to spend time spotting with. I dont know whos eyes they are made for, but not a human.
 
#26
I think that was an issue with the B.4 Maven's but I thought they rectified that with the B.5, but yes, once they come up on the demo list I think they are definitely something I want to try out
 
#28
Totally agree will your analysis Bill on the magnification disparity.

Hence I run 8x42 slc hd’s / 12x50 el sv’s on a tripod mated with the BX85 for more detail.

Additionally, we all have differing needs/wants etc - some of which is the intended purpose and then of course geography. I look at and evaluate Elk/deer/antelope regularly from 2-5 miles or more.

Which leads me to a previous comment - if I am looking at targets at a mile during daylight buy a $3-$600 unit that will get the job done.

If deer hunting in the Midwest with limited range still you need dim light shadow detailed discernment in the trees, then I would go for the highest quality glass that you can afford in 7x or 8x with as large as an objective as you want to carry.

Zeiss, Leica and Swarovski are all excellent. You can save a ton of $$ by buying previous gens and even vintage models of the the above 3 and generally you will have superior glass over many other brands.

I have spoken to some recently with Maven experience as well and plan to pick up a demo model soon myself.

Furthermore, I believe the use of a tripod to be extremely beneficial regardless of personal abilities, glass or discipline.
 
#31
Thanks for all the feedback. I’d say price isn’t much of an issue but rather finding a sweet spot for a one size fits all long range bino. I know it’s to much to ask from one set. Maybe the Swaro EL 12x? Looks like I’d be able to do about everything with them that I needed.

I have a good tripod set up. I tested it with my Razor 8x a few weeks ago at the home range and at a 3gun match off a tripod. I was amazed at the ability to see even with 8x the trace and splash. I had just never used binos off a tripod for long periods of time, and I found it much better than a spotting scope on eye strain. I need a little more mag for the 500+ yard.
 
#33
That is my biggest concern with a spotting scope, the eye strain after long use, which has me looking at the Maven B.5 18x56. I am curious, for those with the Swaro EL 12x50's, do you feel you can handhold these for typical glassing. I am thinking of a combo of 8x and 18x binos where the 8x are my general use quick glassers and the 18x are setup on tripod to scan very far or identify details. Hoping the B.5 18x56 come up on Maven's demo program soon as I like the "try before you buy" approach.
 
#34
Just spent a long day ROing a match with my B-5 18x Mavens. They were absolutely the cats ass. Over 11 hours on glass and no eye fatigue or headache at all, spotted splash in wet ground easily when the wind would stop shaking my tripod. (Left the CF unit at home on accident).

I have a set of 15x SLC inbound with a friend to compare but I can promise 18x is good for RO, no FOV issues whatsoever and the Mavens were crystal clear, no CA to be found that my eyes could pick up.
 
#35
This is great feedback Mammoth, I have heard great things about the B.5 18x56's and my concern about splash and spots, etc. seem to be answered here. How far out were you spotting?
 
#38
I’ve been using the 15x Swaros for the past few months looking at white tails and on the range spotting and they have been awesome. I don’t even pull out the spotting scope for shooting anymore unless someone else is with me and they need a scope. Much easier on the eyes for fatigue and trace is awesome with both eyes on glass. I have so much more field of view with binos over the spotting scope and for inside 1000 yards I’m not sure there’s much I’m missing. I’m sure for seeing miles and miles or big holes at long distance spotting scope would win but for my applications in the hunting/shooting sports I think a fixed 15x or so is perfect.
 
#39

What are the Swaros SLC 15x? It was stupid easy seeing trace the other day at the range. It was hard not to see it where looking through a spotting scope (not same caliber glass of course) we were having trouble.
 
#41
At the end of the day man, for a 1000 yards, I have recommended tons of 15x56, if you have great glass at that power you will be seeing a whole new world. No reason to go up any higher than that.
 
#42
Except possibly for little prairie dogs/ground squirrels, ha! Or maybe for trophy hunters (not me).

I recently used a demo Maven 18x for PD shooting, and: THEY. WERE. AMAZING.

Also tried the 18x Vortex UHDs at the same time. Didn’t like them as much.

Mavens completely replaced my spotter. Used a tripod or my elbows on a table, truck, whatever. I can handhold them for about a minute (ouch). Daytime shooting, distances usually between 200-550 yards but on this trip the mirage was so fierce at 100 degrees we stopped at 400.

Returned them to think.

How we used binos on that trip: 18x Mavens for spotter, 10x Vortex LRF Furys for the shooter.

Might buy a 15x Leica LRF bino. Not sure if 15x is gonna cut it for my application. Maybe the 15x Leica LRF binos for the shooter and the 18x Mavens for the spotter.

My wallet is giving up.
 
#44
I know this is an old thread but maven came out with an 18x mil reticle. I have owned the 10x50 & 12x50 el but I would use the maven 18x for spotting. I also have a 15x56 & the maven b3 8x30 that I use for wind flags. The field of view on the 18x is plenty big vs 15x. I use the 15x for handholding at night to find planets then use the telescope. Maven vs swaro the swaro wins but the maven 18x gives me more detail. The maven centerfield is almost as good as the swaro but not to the edge which is where the swaro pulls ahead. The swaro has slightly richer colors but ca is close. If you handhold a lot then get the swaro because it’s lighter & balances better. For a bino that sits on a tripod for spotting the maven 18x on a manfrotto 290 with 128rc head is hard to beat. I think maven should come out with 21/22x bino because I would definitely get one. If you wait for the holidays maven has 15% off sales
 
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