Im building an intermediate extended long range gun that’s gonna be a 6.5 prc with a 7.5 twist 30 inch barrel. I was wondering what bullets are recommended for shooting past 1000 to 1800 yards?
144 Berger LR hybrid vs 147 eld-m
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I would go heavier with the 153.5gr in that cartridge. The 144s are great in 6.5x47 and 6.5C, but you'll get more distance with a heavier bullet in a PRC or 284.
I only shoot to 1000, but I have had great results with the Berger 153.5 LRH. The 144 LRH also shot well, but the extra BC from the heavier bullet is a benefit.
Have y’all had any experience with the 153 A-tips? I would buy the 153.5 berger’s but I can’t find them anywhere.
Not those specifically, but I've found the A-Tips are a decent alternative when you can't get the unobtanium Bergers.
Yeah, I would love to find some bergers. Do you have any experience with the 6.5 prc, I plan on talking it out past 1600 yards.
I think Bryan Litz said in their testing the 147 ELDM isn't as good as other ELDM's into transonic.
I'd recommend any Berger Hybrid you can get, or SMK.
Scott
I'd recommend any Berger Hybrid you can get, or SMK.
Scott
I all my rifles this is my choice of bullets for over 1000 yards regardless of caliber
1 Berger Hybrid's
2 A-tips's
3 SMK's
Then just to go out plinking Barnes Match Burner's they pretty good but I get some flyer's.
1 Berger Hybrid's
2 A-tips's
3 SMK's
Then just to go out plinking Barnes Match Burner's they pretty good but I get some flyer's.
Theres a guy on fb that makes 153g bullets with bergers jackets. Theyre expensive but shoot like a custom bullet. If youre interested i can find his card. Hes known in the bench scene.
Don't discount the Lapua Scenar-L. I'd take them over SMKs any day.
The 153 A-Tips shot really well for me, but I started getting about a 10% failure rate (they would blow up before getting to the target). I never had any problems with the Bergers.
Lapua Scenar are very consistent too. I've shot the 139 Scenar to 1700 yards and they are excellent.
Scott
Scott
Do you know if it was velocity or passing through the transonic? I would love to get my hands on so 153.5 bergers. I hoping to get around 3050 to 3100 out the muzzle
I was shooting the A-Tips ~2980 out of a 1:7 twist barrel. Hornady said they were spinning too fast, my barrel was too worn, the throat was too rough etc, lots of reasons why it was my fault. I shoot the Berger 153.5 at ~3030 and have never had a problem.
Awesome thanks for the information, I’ll stay away from them. I shoot 147s in my creedmoor and it does great. I think I’m gonna try the 144 Berger and try to get 3100 to compensate for it being a little lighter of a bullet.
Weight isn't everything. My recent experience shooting 1 mile with 156 EOL's, only 3 hits in 46 rounds on 2' x 4', (showers and wind conditions).
Switched back to my old standby, 140 VLD-T, first two shots, 2 hits on 2' x 4', switched to 18", MOA target, hit it on 6th shot (couldn't hit with 156).
The difference was startling.
3030 FPS for the 140, out of 1/8 6.5 PRC. 2940 FPS for the 156. The 1/7.5 might have been a different story. My barrel just likes the 140's, so I would conclude that it's best to shoot what your barrel likes best rather than just to assume weight and BC is the end all be all.
Switched back to my old standby, 140 VLD-T, first two shots, 2 hits on 2' x 4', switched to 18", MOA target, hit it on 6th shot (couldn't hit with 156).
The difference was startling.
3030 FPS for the 140, out of 1/8 6.5 PRC. 2940 FPS for the 156. The 1/7.5 might have been a different story. My barrel just likes the 140's, so I would conclude that it's best to shoot what your barrel likes best rather than just to assume weight and BC is the end all be all.
I think 1:8 twist is pretty marginal for the 156. But I agree, you should shoot what works best in your setup. All other things being equal, higher BC is better, but only if it shoots well.
The 156 EOL or the 153.5 Berger Hybrid are THE bullets to shoot in a 6.5PRC. I would shoot the 144 berger before anything from hornady, and I bet your hit % will be higher as well.
For a 6.5CM, the 144 is tits.
For a 6.5CM, the 144 is tits.
It is out of a 6.5cm, you have about a 3% BC penalty.
Out of a 6.5PRC at 2950+, this eliminates it.
Also, if you shoot at higher DA, it will also increase the stability factor substantially.
Higher BC is not the most important factor. Consistent BC is the most important thing. You can deal with lower BC if your shots are predictable. The Bergers blow Hornady and just about all other bullets out of the water in this area, and its why they are so sought after by everyone from F-class to PRS to ELR.
I appreciate all the insight. I would love to get my hands on the 153.5 bergers. If anyone here knows a place, I would truly appreciate the heads up. I was also wondering if anyone has experience with cutting edge bullets. I know my barrel won’t have the recommended twist for the 143gr MTAC.
I wouldn't be afraid of the A-tips they have done well for me and many others. I know they are more expensive but you can't get the Berger's so it's pretty much irrelevant.
I have not seen that info from Litz, but I found it to be true with a 6.5CM (26" 1:8 Krieger bbl) shooting factory-loaded 140 vs.147 ELDM. The 147 load was hot - even slightly faster than their 140 load. Both were incredibly accurate at 100 and had the same Zero. The 140 was great at 1000 yards, but the 147 was really impressive - even better than the 140 at that distance. According to AB in the Kestrel, it should only continue getting better past that, but when I got past 1330 yards, the hit percentage on the 147s fell off the map while the 140s continued to perform well. I concluded that my barrel just couldn't stabilize the 147s past 1000, but according to the quoted post, maybe there's more to it than just that.
As it so happens, I just shot the Berger factory 153.5 load out of that same gun (now over 3000 rounds) for the first time last week. Just one outing in fairly good conditions, but it managed 7 hits out of 13 shots on a full-sized IPSC at 1400 yards (1.6 x 1.2 MOA target). However, two of those misses were so off-the-pace velocity-wise, they never had a chance. One was only 2700fps (way under), and one was 2775 (way over). Cherry-picking here, but the remaining 11 shots (after deleting those two extremes) were incredibly consistent, averaged 2730-something, and had ES-15, and SD-4. Of those 11, 7 hit the target, and the other 4 were just off the edge due to my wind calls (but were ok for elevation). According to the Kestrel, transonic region starts at 1275 yards, and terminal velocity at 1400 yards was 1242fps, so it was well into the transonic region. It would go subsonic at 1550 yards.
Just luck of the draw from the box when you're shooting factory ammo. I suspect further outings will reveal a much broader distribution.
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Bryan Litz did doppler testing on the 147's and found high BC variation, which you found to be true after 1200 yards or so. I've shot a bunch of the 147, and like your experience, they were excellent out to 1100 yards or so. I've shot them to 1760, but I ran out of elevation in that optic and was holding 6 mils and didn't shoot many of them at that distance, so I don't have data on that.
Here is a link to his Facebook post on the 147's
Here is a link to his Facebook post on the 147's
Thanks for posting that! I never saw it before, and it solves the mystery. My results were from a true side-by-side test with the 140s, and match the above description exactly. It also explains why my gun didn't have a problem stabilizing 153.5s at 1400 when I thought it was the problem with 147s at 1330. The 153.5 Berger appears to be very stable way into transonic, it just really needs more horsepower than a Creedmoor to make it shine (but we knew that already anyway - I was just playing with them).
Yeah, glad I was able to contribute something I found to be helpful.
I picked up a couple boxes of the 153.3 in CM to see how they go, but like you said they kind of need more horsepower behind them.
Scott
I picked up a couple boxes of the 153.3 in CM to see how they go, but like you said they kind of need more horsepower behind them.
Scott
@A5scott: I found pics of one of several side x side tests I did at 1330. 3/5 with 147s, 5/5 with 140s. The group size is even more telling than the hit ratio. These are separate pics, but the two targets are hanging side x side about 18” apart. I should have taken one with both targets in frame.
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that's great shooting, and no doubt that the 140's are way more consistent. Thanks for posting that.
Scott
Scott
That’s 140ELDM vs 147ELDM, factory loads. The Berger 140 factory load shoots great too. Not any better than the 140 ELDM out to 1000, but it does beat it out farther.
144 lrht for me shoot great. And very repeatable.
I get significant dispersion with 147g eldms, I actually seem to get better results with 130eldms
6.5cm, running the 144s at 2800, 147 at 2750, and the 130s at 3005 fps.
I get significant dispersion with 147g eldms, I actually seem to get better results with 130eldms
6.5cm, running the 144s at 2800, 147 at 2750, and the 130s at 3005 fps.
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