15-45 or 20-60 spotting scope

[roklock]

OK, trying to stretch my budget ($400-$500 max) to get what will be a good tool for the next 6 years. Shooting paper to 500 but also learning how to read the wind with it to 1000 yards.
Used is definitely an option on my budget.

I am trying to understand if buying a higher end 15-45 x 60mm would be smarter than looking at 20-60 x 60mm? Or with my budget do I
consider 20-60 x 80mm or will I just be looking at entry level glass if I consider the 80mm?

 

[Dogtown]

It depends on how close you plan to shoot, as much as that may seem counter-intuitive. A 20-60x can sometimes be tough to find closer targets because the bottom end FOV is still pretty tight while the 15-45x has plenty. This is actually why Hensoldt released a 15-45x version of their Spotter 60 optic and why some owners of the 20-60x were mounting red dot sights on them to help locating closer targets.

 

[roklock]

OK, that makes sense...the ground hog matches are shot at 200, 300, and 500 yards. The silhouette match I want to try is 850, 900, 950, 1000 yards. I guess in a nutshell what I
am trying to understand would my money get glass that can be used at the full 20-60 zoom range or should I focus on the 15-45 zoom range?

 

[Dogtown]

Well, understand that $500 isn't going to get you much in the way of good optical quality, but as for magnification range 15-45x sounds like what you want.

 

[roklock]

Well, understand that $500 isn't going to get you much in the way of good optical quality,

I understand that, BUT I either get what I can afford or I go with nothing for 6 years

 

[fireEMT5]

Buy the best that you can afford........ and if you can also wait awhile and keep saving up some more, you'll end up with higher quality scope in the long run. As the saying goes around here, "buy once, cry once".Keep an eye out on the SWFA sample list for used/demo/trade in's - I scored a Vortex Razor that way. When I got it, I'd have sworn it was new in the box. You might also consider contacting Scott @ Liberty Optics and explain your wants/needs to him. He'll point you in the right direction. You could also try CamerlandNY and talk with Doug or Neil.

 

[damoncali]

I use a Kowa 27x from 200-600 yards and have never felt the need for more or less power. the long eye relief eyepiece is really nice to have as well.

 

[delixe]

I don't think "settling" for a 15-45x scope (vs. a 20-60x) is going to put a better spotter in your price range, if I'm understanding the question.

The best sub-$500 spotter I've had is the Bushnell Legend 20-60x80 ED.

As someone already pointed out, low mag is used for the largest FOV to locate targets, but I doubt the difference between 15x and 20x is worth swaying your decision.

Me, I like magnification, so I'd always go for the 60x on top.

I owned an Optolyth Compact APO 80mm spotter for a little while, and side by side with a Zeiss Diascope, at 40x the Zeiss seemed to have higher magnification than 60x on the Optolyth. The Zeiss definitely revealed more detail at 400 and 600 yard targets, and there was another 20x in reserve, although you frequently can't use much above 40x due to mirage (in my experience).
Clear and bright at 40x will trump mediocre at 60x every time.

 

[delixe]

Buy the best that you can afford........ and if you can also wait awhile and keep saving up some more, you'll end up with higher quality scope in the long run. As the saying goes around here, "buy once, cry once".Keep an eye out on the SWFA sample list for used/demo/trade in's - I scored a Vortex Razor that way. When I got it, I'd have sworn it was new in the box. You might also consider contacting Scott @ Liberty Optics and explain your wants/needs to him. He'll point you in the right direction. You could also try CamerlandNY and talk with Doug or Neil.

CLNY has Razor HD 20-60x85 demos for $1350. That is a hard deal to pass up if you can borrow/scrounge the extra scratch for it. It's about as good as a spotter gets, and would never need to be replaced, unless there is some serious advancement in optics in the future.
Vortex - Camera Land NY

 

[roklock]

I owned an Optolyth Compact APO 80mm spotter for a little while, and side by side with a Zeiss Diascope, at 40x the Zeiss seemed to have higher magnification than 60x on the Optolyth. The Zeiss definitely revealed more detail at 400 and 600 yard targets, and there was another 20x in reserve, although you frequently can't use much above 40x due to mirage (in my experience).
Clear and bright at 40x will trump mediocre at 60x every time.

This is what I was trying to ask...so if a buy $500 of "better glass" in the 15-45, at max 45x, it will be better than the 45-50X of a 20-60 in my price range of $500? Yes, I sure would like to be able to spend more but $500 is a stretch max right now.

 

[Kiwigrunt]

I too am looking at forking out some cash on a spotter, and I too am trying to make sense of the pros and cons of the different eye pieces. (I'm looking at a second hand Nikon Fieldscope 60mm with a fixed 30). Based on what I've learned so far from fellow shooters and the all-knowing internet, the best range for observing mirage and spotting trace seems to be between 15 and 25. Damoncali, do you spot trace and mirage all right with your fixed 27, and what is your objective size?

I have looked through a few cheaper, and right up to about USD800 scopes, and most at this price class do seem to lose clarity at the higher settings. And as mentioned above, mirage will often render the higher magnifications useless.

So to the OP - for these three reasons - I would say a 15 to 45 might be better.

Another warning I have come across often is to check the eye-relief. If you wear glasses it should be at least about 14 or 15 mm, and ideally a bit higher. Without glasses it does not matter. Also, the higher the magnification, the sturdier the tripod needs to be. Any movement caused by wind will be experienced commensurate with the magnification.

 

[ego235]

You can still spot mirage and trace pretty well above 25x. Here is a video I recorded over the weekend of a group I shot. Using .223 is more difficult to spot than .308 but it still came out okay. I agree however with the other posters that at a certain point it is no longer advantageous to keep cranking up the power. Using a 25-50x65mm spotting scope with a camera with upto 5x optical zoom, theoretically I can record video at 250x but in the video I'm only using about 30x. Anything higher and the image quality degrades due to mirage without providing anymore resolution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EsOCRj70Hc

I completely agree with dogtown, at your budget don't even consider looking at the 20-60x80s. You will find nothing but regret. If you're able to stretch your budget a little more to say 800 or 1000, thats when a couple decent 80mm scopes come into your range.

 

[damoncali]

Damoncali, do you spot trace and mirage all right with your fixed 27, and what is your objective size?

I use an older version of the Kowa 82mm. The current model has a 25x LER eyepiece, I believe, and is about $950 for the set. I can see mirage and trace clear as day. I can see bullet splats on painted steel at 550 yards at least, probably more. I cannot see bullet holes in paper at 600. I can at 300. I'm not sure what the max range for bullet hole sighting is, but I'd guess around 400 yards.

To me, two features are critical - long eye relief, and an angled eyepiece. I wouldn't even consider a scope without those features because you cannot use it while in position. The only thing I wish I could do that I can't is see long range hits on paper. I'm not sure if there are optics that can do that - maybe the $2500 scopes can see out to 600, but mirage gets in the way anyhow. My scope may be as good as it gets.

But yeah, you can focus at 400 yards and watch mirage all day long with ease.

 

[delixe]

This is what I was trying to ask...so if a buy $500 of "better glass" in the 15-45, at max 45x, it will be better than the 45-50X of a 20-60 in my price range of $500? Yes, I sure would like to be able to spend more but $500 is a stretch max right now.

I tried a few sub-$200 spotters my first go-around, and returned them all. I got a good deal on a Bushnell Legend Ultra HD ($425 shipped) and was pretty happy with it for a while. I see the Bushnell Elite 15-45x60 spotter for around $400 which in theory will have better glass... I found a listing on Amazon where it is described as having ED Fluoride glass, pretty fancy at this price range. Looks like it's only available in a straight configuration, which is a downside, and I have never looked through one. Both the Legend 20-60 and the Elite 15-45 are covered by the Bullet Proof money back guarantee, though, so it's less of a gamble than buying another scope without testing it first. Just make sure it's purchased new from an authorized dealer. You could take it for an extended test drive without any risk.

http://bushnell.com/getmedia/bf0b301b-c5d6-473a-ab9e-bdb68ba6333d/Bullet-Proof-Money-Back-Guarantee
http://bushnell.com/getmedia/59b132...72f/Bullet-Proof-Guarantee-Supported-Products

 

[RStewart]

I'm not sure if there are optics that can do that - maybe the $2500 scopes can see out to 600, but mirage gets in the way anyhow. My scope may be as good as it gets.

Maybe on a perfect day you could see .308 or bigger bullet holes. With no mirage and a backlit target. But those days are really, really rare. And it's still a maybe.

I use my spotting scope for watching mirage only. If I'm shooting 600 yards I set my spotting scope to focus at around 400 yards out. This let's me contrast mirage easier. I use a Konus 20-60x80 ($250). It's been all I've needed since 2009. I have shot next to the prone guys using the Kowa's and the glass on those is superb. But, they aren't shooting scoped, so they need everything they can get out of their spotting scopes. I shoot scoped, so it's not an issue.