1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

S

Silver_Bullet_00

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Minuteman
Mar 15, 2010
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North Carolina
#1
Who has confidence that they can shoot sub .25 MOA at 1500 yards almost 100% of the time. (.25 MOA from the Point of Aim, to be clear)

I would just like to know, and I am sure some other members might find this interesting.

If you are confident enough to do it, would you try it on a big game animal?

Please Vote


 
#3
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbateman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Maybe long rang shooting is not for you , you seem to be very worried about what other people think .


And yes I would try long range hunting .

And no I don't care if you don't like it . </div></div>

No I'm not worried about what other people think. I'm just interested in what other people think. Please vote. Thanks
 
#4
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

I would vote but the way you have worded the poll indicates to me you are on a fishing expedition , and just want to argue with people the same as you were in the thread about shooting deer at 1426yd's .
 
#5
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

If I only shoot once, and you don't care where it lands, .25 MOA is easy.

If you answer yes to this poll, I've got a big money making opportunity for you. I've got a 1500 yard range. I will pay you $1000 in US dollars, cash money, for each .25 MOA (3.92")5 shot group that is within .25 MOA of the POA. You pay me $100 for each group that fails. We'll shoot till someone runs out of cash. Please bring at least $5000 in cash, otherwise I'll be wasting a lot of time.
 
#6
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dbateman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I would vote but the way you have worded the poll indicates to me you are on a fishing expedition , and just want to argue with people the same as you were in the thread about shooting deer at 1426yd's . </div></div>

Yes, that thread about a deer at 1426 yards is what raised my curiosity about peoples confidence in a .25MOA 1500 yard shot, and trying it on game.

I will not argue with anyone in this thread, its just a poll.
Thanks

 
#7
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

Most guys don't have the ranging capabilities to accurately shoot at that distance. If you get a closer(or farther)reading of only 10 to 20 meters, you will probably miss.
 
#8
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

^^^^^This^^^^^

And don't forget about the wind. At that distance even a little wind makes a big difference. Also making an accurate wind call at that range with no flags or good indicators is tough as well.
 
#9
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

Why is it you only hear about the shot that connects? Were there never any misses, or even near misses, that preceded the Headline shot?
 
#11
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

If I have spotting shots and am shooting one of the big 338s based on the 408CT case and good conditions I am pretty confident that I can shoot you a elk vital sized group every time.
 
#12
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I have spotting shots and am shooting one of the big 338s based on the 408CT case and good conditions I am pretty confident that I can shoot you a elk vital sized group every time.</div></div>

I'm not a big time hunter but I don't think that you get too many spotting shots while hunting or on the animal you are trying to hit very often. Not trying to be a dick, just sayin.
 
#13
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

I dont believe there are many, if any, that can shoot consistant, 100% confident, 1/4 MOA shots AT ANY DISTANCE, in any conditions. Consistant/average being key. I know its possible, and have shot a 1/4MOA group at 1000 before. Once. but nowhere, noway, nohow would I ever say I could do it on demand with anything near 100% confidence at any range. 1/2 MOA, I would say 100% to at least 400 yards, but it drops off from there.

There are few that can <span style="text-decoration: underline">average that</span> at 100/200 yards where there is very minimial wind shift and extremely high tech equipment, let alone several crosswinds you will likely encounter at nearly a mile.

But, I would look forward to trying with my new LR rig
smile.gif

(I will be happy with 1MOA at that distance with a 5 shot group...very happy)

Regards,
DT
 
#14
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Varmint Slayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I have spotting shots and am shooting one of the big 338s based on the 408CT case and good conditions I am pretty confident that I can shoot you a elk vital sized group every time.</div></div>

I'm not a big time hunter but I don't think that you get too many spotting shots while hunting or on the animal you are trying to hit very often. Not trying to be a dick, just sayin. </div></div>

So you are saying that you could not go set up a target and collect some data , I have done just that not at 1500yd's but I have definitely gone and collected load date for the site that I plan to shot .

Then placed bait several days late to draw in pig's .
 
#15
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who has confidence that they can shoot sub .25 MOA at 1500 yards almost 100% of the time.

I would just like to know, and I am sure some other members might find this interesting.

If you are confident enough to do it, would you try it on a big game animal?

Please Vote


</div></div>

I voted in your poll. Do you need some help with spelling? The way lots of words are spelled makes my head hurt.
 
#16
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Varmint Slayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I have spotting shots and am shooting one of the big 338s based on the 408CT case and good conditions I am pretty confident that I can shoot you a elk vital sized group every time.</div></div>

I'm not a big time hunter but I don't think that you get too many spotting shots while hunting or on the animal you are trying to hit very often. Not trying to be a dick, just sayin. </div></div>

You see that is why people who know nothing about a subject should not respond as they often come off sounding like a dick, just sayin.

BTW you are wrong we most often take spotter shots through out the day. Although most of those spotter shots would have resulted in DRT animals. You do realize I am not really defending long range hunting to justify the way I like to hunt. I really do not give a damn what anyone thinks about my methods. I am just trying to prove that most of the detractors do not know sheite from shinola. Most of the window lickers become apparent quickly.
 
#17
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tomcat088</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who has confidence that they can shoot sub .25 MOA at 1500 yards almost 100% of the time.

I would just like to know, and I am sure some other members might find this interesting.

If you are confident enough to do it, would you try it on a big game animal?

Please Vote


</div></div>

I voted in your poll. Do you need some help with spelling? The way lots of words are spelled makes my head hurt. </div></div>

Yes, please point out my spelling errors sir
smirk.gif
. Once you post and point them out I will correct them. Thank you for your vote.
 
#18
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You see that is why people who know nothing about a subject should not respond as they often come off sounding like a dick, just sayin.

BTW you are wrong we most often take spotter shots through out the day. Although most of those spotter shots would have resulted in DRT animals. You do realize I am not really defending long range hunting to justify the way I like to hunt. I really do not give a damn what anyone thinks about my methods. I am just trying to prove that most of the detractors do not know sheite from shinola. Most of the window lickers become apparent quickly.</div></div>

I'm glad you know everything about what I know there fuckjob. I am not going to argue with you because based on your prior posts from the 1400 yard deer thread, you know it all.
 
#19
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Varmint Slayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm glad you know everything about what I know there fuckjob. I am not going to argue with you because based on your prior posts from the 1400 yard deer thread, you know it all. </div></div>

I am glad you will no longer arguing , because based on your posts you have very little if any practical experience , and are just resorting to childish name calling and telling people that it is morally wrong to even attempt such a shot , when it has clearly been demonstrated that it can be achieved .

I thank you for your choice not to argue this topic any more .
 
#20
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CoryT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If you answer yes to this poll, I've got a big money making opportunity for you. I've got a 1500 yard range. I will pay you $1000 in US dollars, cash money, for each .25 MOA (3.92")5 shot group that is within .25 MOA of the POA. You pay me $100 for each group that fails. We'll shoot till someone runs out of cash. Please bring at least $5000 in cash, otherwise I'll be wasting a lot of time. </div></div>
LOL... i would be willing to bet a 21 this will NOT happen.
 
#21
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Varmint Slayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You see that is why people who know nothing about a subject should not respond as they often come off sounding like a dick, just sayin.

BTW you are wrong we most often take spotter shots through out the day. Although most of those spotter shots would have resulted in DRT animals. You do realize I am not really defending long range hunting to justify the way I like to hunt. I really do not give a damn what anyone thinks about my methods. I am just trying to prove that most of the detractors do not know sheite from shinola. Most of the window lickers become apparent quickly.</div></div>

I'm glad you know everything about what I know there fuckjob. I am not going to argue with you because based on your prior posts from the 1400 yard deer thread, you know it all. </div></div>

Know it all, hardly. But, I do know more than you about this subject, since you apparently know nothing. Sorry if I got your panties in a wad, let the grown ups have an adult debate.
 
#22
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: PGS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most guys don't have the ranging capabilities to accurately shoot at that distance. If you get a closer(or farther)reading of only 10 to 20 meters, you will probably miss. </div></div>

Spot on PGS. At 1500 yards even with a 338LM, missing your ranging by 10 yards either way you would miss your target by a full MOA.
 
#23
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

I can't do 1/4 MOA at 100 yards with 100% confidence. I would LOVE to see somebody do it at 1500. I would even pay just to watch it happen.

Rich
 
#25
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: davidj</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Interesting paper on standard deviation and group consistency.
It is long but educational.

http://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/Perverse%20Nature%20of%20SD.pdf </div></div>

Thanks, That would be a good post in Advanced Marksmanship. No one will ever find it buried in this thread.
 
#26
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll


Thanks, That would be a good post in Advanced Marksmanship. No one will ever find it buried in this thread. [/quote]

It might be there already. This was for those who contributed to the poll.
 
#27
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

If someone can shoot 5 shot groups at 200+ yds within a 1/4 moa, I would take that bet ALL day long. I always chuckle when I am at a hunting store and hear about the numerous 1/2 moa guns there are. I wish I would have found even one 1/2 moa rifle off the shelf. It would have saved me a lot on my custom
smile.gif
 
#28
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mram10</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I always chuckle when I am at a hunting store and hear about the numerous 1/2 moa guns there are. I wish I would have found even one 1/2 moa rifle off the shelf. It would have saved me a lot on my custom
smile.gif
</div></div>

Me too!!
 
#29
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

I wish I had access to a 1500yd range to shoot at daily!! The closes one to me is 3 1/2hrs away, that is Thunder Valley Precision.
 
#30
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

1/4 MOA at 1500 yards with confidence...

Whoever can should be shooting competitions.

That's a 3.75" group at 1500 yards.

I'd be very impressed with a 1/2MOA group at 1500yards, hell even a 1MOA group at 1500 yards (on target) is a torso strike every time.
 
#31
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, please point out my spelling errors sir
smirk.gif
. Once you post and point them out I will correct them. Thank you for your vote. </div></div>

Sure, not a problem. I'm not trying to play english teacher, or go over all your grammar; there were just some quite obvious misspellings. If you're just dying for that much help, I can get around to the grammar also. I just found it comical, especially how sarcastic it was meant to be in the first place.

"Who has confidence that they can shoot sub .25 MOA at 1500 yards almost 100% of the time <span style="color: #FF0000"> </span> ? (.25 MOA from the Point of Aim, to be clear)"
“Yes I can shoot .25 moa at 1500 yards <span style="color: #FF0000">confidently</span> almost 100 % of the time with my rifle.”
“I do not have the <span style="color: #FF6666">equipment</span> to <span style="color: #FF0000">consistently</span> hit .25 MOA at 1500 yards, but I could do it <span style="color: #FF0000">consistently</span> if I had the <span style="color: #FF0000">equipment</span>.”
“I <span style="color: #FF0000">realize</span> there is a lot of factors that can be <span style="color: #FF0000">involved</span> to <span style="color: #FF0000">consistently</span> shoot .25 MOA at 1500 yards, therefore I do not have 100% confidence in that shot.”

I was getting a headache from seeing you consistently misspell "consistently", and "equipment". The rest happens sometimes, and I'm not sure if you're using a phone or some other device with bad autocorrect. I don't think I'll get around to the punctuation and grammer, so you'll have to forgive me. Either way, maybe that helps
wink.gif
 
#32
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1/4 MOA at 1500 yards with confidence...

Whoever can should be shooting competitions.

That's a 3.75" group at 1500 yards.

I'd be very impressed with a 1/2MOA group at 1500yards, hell even a 1MOA group at 1500 yards (on target) is a torso strike every time.
</div></div>

Well I'm glad to see that a few others that don't know "sheite from shinola" about what it takes to make a shot at 1500 yards are chiming in.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo-1426 yard deer thread</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I pull up to a meadow where I expect to see an animal and pop a rock at 1500 yards. Then half an hour later have an elk in the same general vicinity and there have been no apparent wind changes, I consider that shot a gimme. Probably even a shot you could make.</div></div>

I said I wasn't going to argue and I am not. I am just going to put some numbers out there. Tell me if I am wrong or if these are not close to your load data. Some of your comments lead me to believe you may have some sort of improved .338 so your load data may be different. This is from a load I know:



1500 yards
.338 Edge load of 300 SMK @2820 FPS
5mph 90 degree cross wind- 2.9 MOA (45.6 inches)
8 mph 90 degree cross wind- 4.6 MOA (72.9 inches)
Vital area on an elk- 14.5-16 inches.

Even if you were shooting a .338 Allen Mag or simillar with capable muzzle velocity of 3300 fps, the same wind conditions as above still make a 1.3 MOA difference.


That is either a hit in the vitals or close to the ass. And for demonstration purposes lets assume it was ranged with a Vector 23 which is more than capable of ranging a target accurately that size at that distance. With just a bad wind read or having the mind set of "there have been no apparent wind changes", it is pretty easy to miss your intended POA. Are you good enough to tell the difference between 5 and 8 mph wind at almost a mile away using only grass or trees to help you? If you are then as Griffin said you should do a lot of competitive shooting. I look forward to you comments eddy.
 
#33
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tomcat088</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yes, please point out my spelling errors sir
smirk.gif
. Once you post and point them out I will correct them. Thank you for your vote. </div></div>

Sure, not a problem. I'm not trying to play english teacher, or go over all your grammar; there were just some quite obvious misspellings. If you're just dying for that much help, I can get around to the grammar also. I just found it comical, especially how sarcastic it was meant to be in the first place.

"Who has confidence that they can shoot sub .25 MOA at 1500 yards almost 100% of the time <span style="color: #FF0000"> </span> ? (.25 MOA from the Point of Aim, to be clear)"
“Yes I can shoot .25 moa at 1500 yards <span style="color: #FF0000">confidently</span> almost 100 % of the time with my rifle.”
“I do not have the <span style="color: #FF6666">equipment</span> to <span style="color: #FF0000">consistently</span> hit .25 MOA at 1500 yards, but I could do it <span style="color: #FF0000">consistently</span> if I had the <span style="color: #FF0000">equipment</span>.”
“I <span style="color: #FF0000">realize</span> there is a lot of factors that can be <span style="color: #FF0000">involved</span> to <span style="color: #FF0000">consistently</span> shoot .25 MOA at 1500 yards, therefore I do not have 100% confidence in that shot.”

I was getting a headache from seeing you consistently misspell "consistently", and "equipment". The rest happens sometimes, and I'm not sure if you're using a phone or some other device with bad autocorrect. I don't think I'll get around to the punctuation and grammer, so you'll have to forgive me. Either way, maybe that helps
wink.gif
</div></div>

LOL!!!!! Yes I was being sarcastic.
grin.gif
I didn't actually think you would correct, or anyone would care. I had already seen the errors. Thanks
cool.gif
Thats one reason I was sarcastic when you mentioned it. I do use Auto on my phone. The words come up, I hit over, and I don't even pay attention half the time. I am unable to edit the poll. I can only edit the post.
 
#34
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Varmint Slayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Griffin Armament</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1/4 MOA at 1500 yards with confidence...

Whoever can should be shooting competitions.

That's a 3.75" group at 1500 yards.

I'd be very impressed with a 1/2MOA group at 1500yards, hell even a 1MOA group at 1500 yards (on target) is a torso strike every time.
</div></div>

Well I'm glad to see that a few others that don't know "sheite from shinola" about what it takes to make a shot at 1500 yards are chiming in.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo-1426 yard deer thread</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If I pull up to a meadow where I expect to see an animal and pop a rock at 1500 yards. Then half an hour later have an elk in the same general vicinity and there have been no apparent wind changes, I consider that shot a gimme. Probably even a shot you could make.</div></div>

I said I wasn't going to argue and I am not. I am just going to put some numbers out there. Tell me if I am wrong or if these are not close to your load data. Some of your comments lead me to believe you may have some sort of improved .338 so your load data may be different. This is from a load I know:



1500 yards
.338 Edge load of 300 SMK @2820 FPS
5mph 90 degree cross wind- 2.9 MOA (45.6 inches)
8 mph 90 degree cross wind- 4.6 MOA (72.9 inches)
Vital area on an elk- 14.5-16 inches.

Even if you were shooting a .338 Allen Mag or simillar with capable muzzle velocity of 3300 fps, the same wind conditions as above still make a 1.3 MOA difference.


That is either a hit in the vitals or close to the ass. And for demonstration purposes lets assume it was ranged with a Vector 23 which is more than capable of ranging a target accurately that size at that distance. With just a bad wind read or having the mind set of "there have been no apparent wind changes", it is pretty easy to miss your intended POA. Are you good enough to tell the difference between 5 and 8 mph wind at almost a mile away using only grass or trees to help you? If you are then as Griffin said you should do a lot of competitive shooting. I look forward to you comments eddy. </div></div>

First I have never said I could reliably shoot 1/4 MOA at 1500, although I have done it at 1400 at least a couple times, but only 3 shot groups, which does not mean much other than the bullets decided to land close together. You do realize that 1/4 MOA is not required to shoot an animal at 1500 yards don't you? This whole thread stems form some arbitrary number dreamed up by the OP. Because all of this stems from the 1500 yard deer thread.

As to my load data 3400 fps with a starting BC of .89 stepped down, it is a 338 Allen Magnum. I do not have a vector, just a PLRF 15C, and I am using a Kestral 4500BT. What you cannot grasp is that you have a choice of whether you are going to pull the trigger. If you question your wind read, or there has been a change in the wind you do not have to pull the trigger. I have killed a bunch of animals at long range, but have set up for shots on many many more where no shot was taken. At 1500 yards the vitals of an elk are at least 1 MOA, giving a 1/2 MOA error in any direction. BTW Ballistics programs are very good at predicting dope for wind. I am not very scared of steady high winds, only switching winds. I shoot long range almost daily, and also f-class and benchrest and usually take at least a couple long range prairie dog trips every year. Just because a 15 inch target is a long range fantasy for you, does not mean that it is a reality for others, especially with spotters. We have often taken spotting shots while the animal that we plan to shoot is standing around eating if we thought there had been a change. Most times the animals never even react to the shot, but it gives us invaluable insight into what the wind is doing. Any thing else? We know you are admittedly not a hunter, are you even a shooter or just a PETA member?
 
#35
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

First I have never said I could reliably shoot 1/4 MOA at 1500, although I have done it at 1400 at least a couple times, but only 3 shot groups, which does not mean much other than the bullets decided to land close together. You do realize that 1/4 MOA is not required to shoot an animal at 1500 yards don't you? This whole thread stems form some arbitrary number dreamed up by the OP. Because all of this stems from the 1500 yard deer thread.

As to my load data 3400 fps with a starting BC of .89 stepped down, it is a 338 Allen Magnum. I do not have a vector, just a PLRF 15C, and I am using a Kestral 4500BT. What you cannot grasp is that you have a choice of whether you are going to pull the trigger. If you question your wind read, or there has been a change in the wind you do not have to pull the trigger. I have killed a bunch of animals at long range, but have set up for shots on many many more where no shot was taken. At 1500 yards the vitals of an elk are at least 1 MOA, giving a 1/2 MOA error in any direction. BTW Ballistics programs are very good at predicting dope for wind. I am not very scared of steady high winds, only switching winds. I shoot long range almost daily, and also f-class and benchrest and usually take at least a couple long range prairie dog trips every year. Just because a 15 inch target is a long range fantasy for you, does not mean that it is a reality for others, especially with spotters. We have often taken spotting shots while the animal that we plan to shoot is standing around eating if we thought there had been a change. Most times the animals never even react to the shot, but it gives us invaluable insight into what the wind is doing. Any thing else? We know you are admittedly not a hunter, are you even a shooter or just a PETA member? </div></div>

Eddybo, I apologize to an extent. The more I read your posts, the more I see you really know your stuff. I just disagree with the ethics ( more of a chance for something to go wrong vs other styles of hunting). I am not saying you cant make the shot, because its sounds like you and the op from 1400 yard deer post can, if your patient for the right conditions. That being said I still believe there is a higher percent chance of a bad shot at that range ( deer has time to move before bullet gets there, wind changing, ranging error ect). Everyone has a right to hunt how they wish, even if I or anyone else does not agree with the method. No one tells me I cant use primitive weapons, so I'm not going to tell you that you cant shoot a deer 1400 yards away, even if I don't agree with it! LOL
 
#37
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

"First I have never said I could reliably hit 1/4 MOA at 1500..."...

Would it not have avoided alot of unnecessary acrmony to just say that out the gate? That was the opening criteria, and to come back with:

"I am pretty confident I can shoot a elk size vital group all day."...

Is misleading, at best, without stating what you consider to be a "elk size vital group". Exactly what radius from POA are you talking about Eddybo?
 
#38
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL!!!!! Yes I was being sarcastic.
grin.gif
I didn't actually think you would correct, or anyone would care. I had already seen the errors. Thanks
cool.gif
Thats one reason I was sarcastic when you mentioned it. I do use Auto on my phone. The words come up, I hit over, and I don't even pay attention half the time. I am unable to edit the poll. I can only edit the post. </div></div>

LOL, I figured you were being sarcastic. Normally, I wouldn't even take the time to correct the post. I did it because I figured I'd just mess with you. Most of us don't really care. The sad part is, I see "kids" these days (although I'm not that old), who can't spell and don't even notice the mistakes, mainly because how anything goes with texting. I also had forgotten than once you made a poll, you can't edit it. Since we're all jacking around in the poll, I figured I'd just give you some $h!t, lol. Glad to see we can both be good sports about it.
 
#39
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First I have never said I could reliably shoot 1/4 MOA at 1500, although I have done it at 1400 at least a couple times, but only 3 shot groups, which does not mean much other than the bullets decided to land close together.</div></div>

I believe that you have shot 1/4 MOA at 1400 yards. But did you just stroll up to the target and make a wind call and accurate range and then place your first 3 rounds in a 1/4 MOA group? Was the 1/4 MOA group within 1 MOA of your intended POA? What were the winds like? Constant? Switching? A lot of things have to be done right to make that kind of situation come together to even make a 1 MOA group in any kind of real world winds. Like i said, I don't doubt you achieved 1/4 MOA at 1400 yards as I have shot a few 1/2 MOA groups at the same range with 208 Amaxs. Can I do it from my first shot on command time and time again? Probabaly not.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You do realize that 1/4 MOA is not required to shoot an animal at 1500 yards don't you?</div></div>

I do realize that. Would you agree that it takes 1 MOA at 1500?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We have often taken spotting shots while the animal that we plan to shoot is standing around eating if we thought there had been a change.</div></div>

You said you take spotter shots close the same position as the animal you intend to shoot. How long after that spotter shot before you take the shot on the animal? Can a guy make an accurate call and hit the target first round(or second in your case)? Sure it happens everyday. Being able to make a quick follow up shot that connects at that range says a lot about that shooter and their abilities.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just because a 15 inch target is a long range fantasy for you, does not mean that it is a reality for others, especially with spotters.</div></div>

It is not a fantasy to me. I shoot out to 1600 yards at least a couple of times a week at a silhouette target among others. I have steel setup to 1 mile at my house so contrary to what you think, I have spent time over 1000 yards so I do know what it takes to make a shot that far.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We know you are admittedly not a hunter, are you even a shooter or just a PETA member?</div></div>

Your right I don't hunt game that much. Am I against hunting? No. I live in one of the more popular hunting areas of the country. I also do a LOT of varmint shooting and shooting in general.
 
#40
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tomcat088</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body">LOL!!!!! Yes I was being sarcastic.
grin.gif
I didn't actually think you would correct, or anyone would care. I had already seen the errors. Thanks
cool.gif
Thats one reason I was sarcastic when you mentioned it. I do use Auto on my phone. The words come up, I hit over, and I don't even pay attention half the time. I am unable to edit the poll. I can only edit the post. </div></div>

LOL, I figured you were being sarcastic. Normally, I wouldn't even take the time to correct the post. I did it because I figured I'd just mess with you. Most of us don't really care. The sad part is, I see "kids" these days (although I'm not that old), who can't spell and don't even notice the mistakes, mainly because how anything goes with texting. I also had forgotten than once you made a poll, you can't edit it. Since we're all jacking around in the poll, I figured I'd just give you some $h!t, lol. Glad to see we can both be good sports about it. </div></div>

grin.gif
4COL no problim. We'z cul. It asham dat kidz cant speal and hav no gramer. BTHOM why, but DILLIGAD. LMAO
TTYL Silver
 
#41
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"First I have never said I could reliably hit 1/4 MOA at 1500..."...

Would it not have avoided alot of unnecessary acrmony to just say that out the gate? That was the opening criteria, and to come back with:

"I am pretty confident I can shoot a elk size vital group all day."...

Is misleading, at best, without stating what you consider to be a "elk size vital group". Exactly what radius from POA are you talking about Eddybo? </div></div>

Your reading comprehension is lacking on this Noel, or you have not figured out the whole story yet. The 1/4 MOA comes from the posters belief that 1/4 MOA is required to kill an elk at 1500 yards. I know that I cannot shoot 1/4 MOA at 1500 yards reliably, so I stated in my first post that I could hit an elks vitals at 1500 with spotting shots, which is the question that should have been asked. Or at least it is a fairer question. I understand that you may have not gotten the context if you had not read the other thread. If you read the thread that spawned this poll you will see that I have always contended that an elks vitals are 15-18 inches.
 
#42
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"First I have never said I could reliably hit 1/4 MOA at 1500..."...

Would it not have avoided alot of unnecessary acrmony to just say that out the gate? That was the opening criteria, and to come back with:

"I am pretty confident I can shoot a elk size vital group all day."...

Is misleading, at best, without stating what you consider to be a "elk size vital group". Exactly what radius from POA are you talking about Eddybo? </div></div>

Your reading comprehension is lacking on this Noel, or you have not figured out the whole story yet. The 1/4 MOA comes from the posters belief that 1/4 MOA is required to kill an elk at 1500 yards. I know that I cannot shoot 1/4 MOA at 1500 yards reliably, so I stated in my first post that I could hit an elks vitals at 1500 with spotting shots, which is the question that should have been asked. Or at least it is a fairer question. I understand that you may have not gotten the context if you had not read the other thread. If you read the thread that spawned this poll you will see that I have always contended that an elks vitals are 15-18 inches. </div></div>

I did not say that I believe that 1/4moa is required to shoot an elk. I explained what 1moa would be at that yardage in inches, and I was basically told that they had a 1/4 moa capable gun. Again I'm not arguing, just stating what was said.
 
#43
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

Glad yo are at least a shooter Varmint Slayer, I like you a lot better already. When we take spotting shots, when the animals are in sight, the follow ups occur as quickly as we can get set up for the shot on the animal. I do accept that aiming for the heart lung area on an elk is around a MOA sized target. There is a margin of error that I choose not to take into account which would be a CNS or high shoulder hit which would enlarge that target size substantially. I choose lung shots because I have never seen an animal shot through the lungs travel very far or live very long. Unlike some people who are hunters who like to shoot, I would say I am a shooter that likes to hunt. So I cannot hack on you too much for not being a hunter.
 
#44
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"First I have never said I could reliably hit 1/4 MOA at 1500..."...

Would it not have avoided alot of unnecessary acrmony to just say that out the gate? That was the opening criteria, and to come back with:

"I am pretty confident I can shoot a elk size vital group all day."...

Is misleading, at best, without stating what you consider to be a "elk size vital group". Exactly what radius from POA are you talking about Eddybo? </div></div>

Your reading comprehension is lacking on this Noel, or you have not figured out the whole story yet. The 1/4 MOA comes from the posters belief that 1/4 MOA is required to kill an elk at 1500 yards. I know that I cannot shoot 1/4 MOA at 1500 yards reliably, so I stated in my first post that I could hit an elks vitals at 1500 with spotting shots, which is the question that should have been asked. Or at least it is a fairer question. I understand that you may have not gotten the context if you had not read the other thread. If you read the thread that spawned this poll you will see that I have always contended that an elks vitals are 15-18 inches. </div></div>

I did not say that I believe that 1/4moa is required to shoot an elk. I explained what 1moa would be at that yardage, and I was told that they had a 1/4 moa gun. </div></div>

If you want to argue about the definition of a 1/4 MOA rifle get ready to make more pages. I contend that this rifle is a 1/4 MOA rifle or as close to one other than my BR rifles as I have ever owned. You insinuated in your post IIRC that I may be shooting a MOA rifle, I stated that my rifle was closer to 1/4 MOA. Do you recall it differently? Did n't you go off on a tanget about 6 inches being the target size for a heart shot or some such nonsense? I do not care enough about the issue to go look in the other thread.

ImportedPhotos00003-2-1.jpg
 
#45
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glad yo are at least a shooter Varmint Slayer, I like you a lot better already. When we take spotting shots, when the animals are in sight, the follow ups occur as quickly as we can get set up for the shot on the animal. I do accept that aiming for the heart lung area on an elk is around a MOA sized target. There is a margin of error that I choose not to take into account which would be a CNS or high shoulder hit which would enlarge that target size substantially. I choose lung shots because I have never seen an animal shot through the lungs travel very far or live very long. Unlike some people who are hunters who like to shoot, I would say I am a shooter that likes to hunt. So I cannot hack on you too much for not being a hunter. </div></div>

Any successful hunter has to be a marksmen first! Unless they stab with spears and knifes. LOL
 
#46
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glad yo are at least a shooter Varmint Slayer, I like you a lot better already. When we take spotting shots, when the animals are in sight, the follow ups occur as quickly as we can get set up for the shot on the animal. I do accept that aiming for the heart lung area on an elk is around a MOA sized target. There is a margin of error that I choose not to take into account which would be a CNS or high shoulder hit which would enlarge that target size substantially. I choose lung shots because I have never seen an animal shot through the lungs travel very far or live very long. Unlike some people who are hunters who like to shoot, I would say I am a shooter that likes to hunt. So I cannot hack on you too much for not being a hunter. </div></div>

Any successful hunter has to be a marksmen first! Unless they stab with spears and knifes. LOL </div></div>

LOL you do not know most of the hunters around my area. I do sight ins for a bunch of guys every year because they do not have the ability. Yet they often kill at least a deer a year, lord knows how many they wound, and most shots are probably less than 60 yards. Those guys are way more likely to wound a deer than any long range hunter I know.
 
#47
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Noel Carlson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"First I have never said I could reliably hit 1/4 MOA at 1500..."...

Would it not have avoided alot of unnecessary acrmony to just say that out the gate? That was the opening criteria, and to come back with:

"I am pretty confident I can shoot a elk size vital group all day."...

Is misleading, at best, without stating what you consider to be a "elk size vital group". Exactly what radius from POA are you talking about Eddybo? </div></div>

Your reading comprehension is lacking on this Noel, or you have not figured out the whole story yet. The 1/4 MOA comes from the posters belief that 1/4 MOA is required to kill an elk at 1500 yards. I know that I cannot shoot 1/4 MOA at 1500 yards reliably, so I stated in my first post that I could hit an elks vitals at 1500 with spotting shots, which is the question that should have been asked. Or at least it is a fairer question. I understand that you may have not gotten the context if you had not read the other thread. If you read the thread that spawned this poll you will see that I have always contended that an elks vitals are 15-18 inches. </div></div>

I did not say that I believe that 1/4moa is required to shoot an elk. I explained what 1moa would be at that yardage, and I was told that they had a 1/4 moa gun. </div></div>

If you want to argue about the definition of a 1/4 MOA rifle get ready to make more pages. I contend that this rifle is a 1/4 MOA rifle or as close to one other than my BR rifles as I have ever owned. You insinuated in your post IIRC that I may be shooting a MOA rifle, I stated that my rifle was closer to 1/4 MOA. Do you recall it differently? Did n't you go off on a tanget about 6 inches being the target size for a heart shot or some such nonsense? I do not care enough about the issue to go look in the other thread.

ImportedPhotos00003-2-1.jpg
</div></div>

That was about the way it went, seems we misunderstood each other earlier. Sorry.
I was explaining how many inches was in 1 MOA at 1426, and how easy you could miss at 1426 if you where off more than 1 MOA from the POA. Thats when you stated your rifle was 1/4 MOA which I am not doubting. No big deal! LOL Read my earlier post in this thread. I did apologize to you. I just differ in opinion about the ethics.
 
#48
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Silver_Bullet_00</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: eddybo</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Glad yo are at least a shooter Varmint Slayer, I like you a lot better already. When we take spotting shots, when the animals are in sight, the follow ups occur as quickly as we can get set up for the shot on the animal. I do accept that aiming for the heart lung area on an elk is around a MOA sized target. There is a margin of error that I choose not to take into account which would be a CNS or high shoulder hit which would enlarge that target size substantially. I choose lung shots because I have never seen an animal shot through the lungs travel very far or live very long. Unlike some people who are hunters who like to shoot, I would say I am a shooter that likes to hunt. So I cannot hack on you too much for not being a hunter. </div></div>

Any successful hunter has to be a marksmen first! Unless they stab with spears and knifes. LOL </div></div>

LOL you do not know most of the hunters around my area. I do sight ins for a bunch of guys every year because they do not have the ability. Yet they often kill at least a deer a year, lord knows how many they wound, and most shots are probably less than 60 yards. Those guys are way more likely to wound a deer than any long range hunter I know. </div></div>

That's why I used the word <span style="color: #FF0000">Successful</span> LOL
 
#50
Re: 1500 Yard 0.25 MOA Confidence Poll

... Just reviewed the "whole story".

Keeping just under a minute at 1,500 is good shooting, and not a particularly unreasonable standard if the skill/equipment is actually present. I would be much more concerned with tag issuance to some personal acquaintances hunting a quarter that range who have neither skill, nor judgement, and they are probably represenative of most.

That said, I see nothing wrong with discussion of the morality of shooting beyond ones capabilities. As I read the comments from the other thread, there seems to be a general consensus on that point.

Sorry Eddybo.
 
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