16” ultralight SAUM caliber choice?

[hoguer]

Stewing over another ultralight build and will be specing it out with a 16” barrel for those final ounces.
This will be a sheep hunting rifle and as such still needs a max effective range in the 800 yard range with plenty of energy on target, because a wounded animal can be extremely expensive in the sheep world.
Rifle will be based off of a SA platform and a full custom so twist rate is infinitely adaptable.
I accept torching the throat on the barrel is the cost of doing business. If I get 700is rounds out of it I’ll be happy.

The low hanging fruit says a 6.5PRC with a monolithic in the 130s that can handle the thrust needed to get to a decent speed in 16” is a logical choice.
Also a 7saum with a similar bullet in the 140s seems to fit the build.

Am I missing any obvious choices?
Wildcatting is not an option. Premium brass in the appropriate head stamp is a must.

 

[ArTeeKay]

Is there any particular reason you're shaving weight with barrel length rather than in the stock, optic, and action, or better yet, the other gear in your pack? Why not drop one pair of socks instead?

I don't know what you know, and so don't want to speculate about your reasons for wanting what you want. But I'd pick a 22" barrel at least, regardless of chambering. Effective range and "effective range" are two very different things. If I was shooting sheep in the mountains, the absolute last thing I'd want is to be shooting a monolithic bullet. I want a bullet with excellent expansion, and zero pass through, across a wide range of velocities, regardless of the specifics of total energy on target. 6.5 PRC is good, 7 SAUM is good, but with a 16" barrel, in an ultralight rifle, say goodbye to spotting for yourself, or any hope of an easy followup shot, nevermind you're leaving 6" of easy performance on the table.

My recommendation is to go with a standard length barrel and spend more time walking with your pack on.

 

[hoguer]

Is there any particular reason you're shaving weight with barrel length rather than in the stock, optic, and action, or better yet, the other gear in your pack? Why not drop one pair of socks instead?

I don't know what you know, and so don't want to speculate about your reasons for wanting what you want. But I'd pick a 22" barrel at least, regardless of chambering. Effective range and "effective range" are two very different things. If I was shooting sheep in the mountains, the absolute last thing I'd want is to be shooting a monolithic bullet. I want a bullet with excellent expansion, and zero pass through, across a wide range of velocities, regardless of the specifics of total energy on target. 6.5 PRC is good, 7 SAUM is good, but with a 16" barrel, in an ultralight rifle, say goodbye to spotting for yourself, or any hope of an easy followup shot, nevermind you're leaving 6" of easy performance on the table.

My recommendation is to go with a standard length barrel and spend more time walking with your pack on.

Every other portion of this rifle is already addressed.
The barrel length is for a folding stock and to be carried inside of a backpack completely safe from the elements while hiking.
Imagine I’m just asking about calibers, not the rest of my gear or my conditioning

 

[ArTeeKay]

Every other portion of this rifle is already at the lightest option in the market.
The barrel length is for a folding stock and to be carried inside of a backpack completely safe from the elements while hiking.
All of the other variables are being addressed, I’m just asking about calibers.

I see. In that case, I'd say something like 7 SAUM would suffice, especially if head stamp on the brass is important. Out of a short barrel, I'd opt for velocity rather than mass, just for keeping energy up at those longer distances, so I think the 140 class is a good choice there.

I do feel obligated to ask, why handicap your rifle so badly, just for the sake of keeping it out of the rain and snow? Especially considering if it's tucked away, targets of opportunity are very likely to get away from you before you get set up. I'd want a scope and action cover, and a rubber balloon taped over my muzzle way before I'd want to stuff a folded rifle inside my pack...

 

[hoguer]

I see. In that case, I'd say something like 7 SAUM would suffice, especially if head stamp on the brass is important. Out of a short barrel, I'd opt for velocity rather than mass, just for keeping energy up at those longer distances, so I think the 140 class is a good choice there.

I do feel obligated to ask, why handicap your rifle so badly, just for the sake of keeping it out of the rain and snow? Especially considering if it's tucked away, targets of opportunity are very likely to get away from you before you get set up. I'd want a scope and action cover, and a rubber balloon taped over my muzzle way before I'd want to stuff a folded rifle inside my pack...

The Pamir Mountains rarely have a target of opportunity. But days of horseback travel and potential for far less than ideal weather and a rifle that weighs “nothing” are much more beneficial when at elevations around 14,000 ft

 

[fdkay]

To be honest, with a 16" tube, you might be best served by the .308 or the 7-08 running the eldx bullets.
With the typical slow powders associated with magnum type cartridges, you'll be burning a whole lot of powder outside the barrel.
If you handload, the 300 wsm and 7mm saum can be loaded with the 178 and 162 respectively for good, long range performance but you'll still be burning lots of powder outside the barrel with a lot of blast and, during low light, a nice fireball.

 

[CA48]

I’d go 300 wsm or 7Saum, ADG brass for both

7 SAUM will do ~ 2700 with 180s
300wsm will do ~ 2750 with 200gr hybrids or 205gr EH’s with rl17.

My 16” 30/06 does 2580fps with 215gr bergers & RL17.
H4350 will be around 100 fps slower.
Rl26 is another good option that almost gets rl17 speeds.

 

[st1650]

To be honest, with a 16" tube, you might be best served by the .308 or the 7-08 running the eldx bullets.
With the typical slow powders associated with magnum type cartridges, you'll be burning a whole lot of powder outside the barrel.
If you handload, the 300 wsm and 7mm saum can be loaded with the 178 and 162 respectively for good, long range performance but you'll still be burning lots of powder outside the barrel with a lot of blast and, during low light, a nice fireball.

Exactly at 16in you could look into a 7mm-08, 7mm-08 AI or a 7SAW.
7SAW with 162s and RL17 will get you decent velocities.

 

[hoguer]

To be honest, with a 16" tube, you might be best served by the .308 or the 7-08 running the eldx bullets.
With the typical slow powders associated with magnum type cartridges, you'll be burning a whole lot of powder outside the barrel.
If you handload, the 300 wsm and 7mm saum can be loaded with the 178 and 162 respectively for good, long range performance but you'll still be burning lots of powder outside the barrel with a lot of blast and, during low light, a nice fireball.

The eldx is one of my least favorite hunting bullets on the market.
I killed 19 animals with them in Africa and had jacket separation from the core on about 17 of them and pin hole sized exit wounds, as well as a warthog shot at 70 yds that had a complete detonation of the bullet on impact leaving a softball sized impact hole
I have a jar full of bullet jackets to show my hunting buddies when they tell me they want to run an ELDX

 

[fdkay]

The eldx is one of my least favorite hunting bullets on the market.
I killed 19 animals with them in Africa and had jacket separation from the core on about 17 of them and pin hole sized exit wounds, as well as a warthog shot at 70 yds that had a complete explosion of the bullet leaving a softball sized impact hole
I have a jar full of bullet jackets to show my hunting buddies when they tell me they want to run an ELDX

But it killed 19 right?
Dead is dead, there is no "this dead animal is deader than that dead animal"
The bullets will perform differently at 500 yards than they do at 70.
You need high BC and SD at extended ranges.
Suit yourself, there are other bullets available, all bullets work best in a specific velocity envelope, according to their design. Since you're limiting barrel length to 16", you are, by default, limiting your bullet choice as well.

 

[hoguer]

But it killed 19 right?
Dead is dead, there is no "this dead animal is deader than that dead animal"
The bullets will perform differently at 500 yards than they do at 70.
You need high BC and SD at extended ranges.
Suit yourself, there are other bullets available, all bullets work best in a specific velocity envelope, according to their design. Since you're limiting barrel length to 16", you are, by default, limiting your bullet choice as well.

A pin hole through a heart vs a golf ball sized cavity is a different type of dead, so I would whole heartedly (pun intended) disagree on your “dead is dead” theory.

I’m aware I’m limited on bullet choice, that’s why I mentioned bullet weights lighter than what most people are considering the gold standard in caliberXgrain for modern LR bullets.
The increased BC of monolithic bullets in a given weight class, ability to withstand substantial pressure without deforming, plus the fact I’m running lighter than maximum bullet weights so I won’t have to worry about running into OAL issues normally encountered with monolithic bullets makes them an attractive options.

So far the 7saum with a CEB 145MTH is looking like my likely choice

 

[fdkay]

A pin hole through a heart vs a golf ball sized cavity is a different type of dead, so I would whole heartedly (pun intended) disagree on your “dead is dead” theory.

I’m aware I’m limited on bullet choice, that’s why I mentioned bullet weights lighter than what most people are considering the gold standard in caliberXgrain for modern LR bullets.
The increased BC of monolithic bullets in a given weight class, ability to withstand substantial pressure without deforming, plus the fact I’m running lighter than maximum bullet weights so I won’t have to worry about running into OAL issues normally encountered with monolithic bullets makes them an attractive options.

So far the 7saum with a CEB 145MTH is looking like my likely choice

Good luck with that.
A non expanding bullet that supposedly sheds several petals to create damage. What could go wrong?

 

[hoguer]

Good luck with that.
A non expanding bullet that supposedly sheds several petals to create damage. What could go wrong?

The .284” diameter of the bullet, even if it doesn’t expand, will still be significantly larger than the wound cavity created by the core of a eldx that separates from its jacket on impact.

 

[fdkay]

The .284” diameter of the bullet, even if it doesn’t expand, will still be significantly larger than the wound cavity created by the core of a eldx that separates from its jacket on impact.

Dude, I get it. You don't like the Hornady product and you have your reasons.
I'm leery of bullets that claim to kill by voodoo.
Have you considered any bonded bullets like the accubond (or others) or Barnes? (Just curious)

 

[mi223]

You seem to have it all figured out. Why even ask?

 

[The King]

The shorter the barrel the larger the bullet should be. Has to do with remaining cylinder volume etc etc. If you are choosing between a 6.5, 7, or 7.62mm and pretty much the same exact base case in a 16" barrel it would be the 30 cal every time IMHO.

 

[GMZ]

7 SAUM/150 ABLR

 

[hoguer]

Dude, I get it. You don't like the Hornady product and you have your reasons.
I'm leery of bullets that claim to kill by voodoo.
Have you considered any bonded bullets like the accubond (or others) or Barnes? (Just curious)

I’ve considered Barnes, but I’ve had mediocre accuracy results with most of their line. In my experience probably 1/4 of the rifles I’ve shot them in shoot great right out of the gate, and the other 3/4 I chase my tail trying to find a load with reasonable accuracy. I generally consider them a choice down there line.
I haven’t looked at bonded bullets much at all, but probably should take a little better look.

 

[hoguer]

7 SAUM/150 ABLR

From experience with a short barrel?

 

[Simonsza1]

would a 6.5 saum with the 156 Berger be a good option? Could keep velocities up.

 

[GMZ]

From experience with a short barrel?

No, just a recommendation based on what you laid out. I have a few 7 SAUMs they are all 24-26”. I run 180 VLDs and 168 ABLR primarily. There is some recent short barrel data from multiple posters in the 7 SAUM reloading thread, pg14.

The 150 ABLR bullet has a good bc for being that light weight, and you’ll be able to push it faster than a 168 or 175. Being the LR version it’s a bit softer than regular AB which won’t matter for your upper velocity limit in a 16” but will expand down to 1300 which is important with a 16”. Litz measured the bc to be 95% of advertised. Some people have issues getting them to shoot but I didn’t. Hard part now will be finding them.

Is there any reason you want monos? Do you have to be lead free for your hunt?

Been passively developing 145 CEB Lazers as I have time, very nice bullets just need to push them faster. I’m not sure I would try a mono from a 16” on something like a high altitude sheep hunt (probably difficult and $$$) unless I tested them very extensively.

You could also do a 6.5 short mag with a 129 ABLR or 130 Berger to keep speeds up, tons of terminal reports on that combo.

 

[Chickentoast]

would a 6.5 saum with the 156 Berger be a good option? Could keep velocities up.

A lot of blast, but he should be in the 2900's w/ 156's - I have 16" and 28" barrels for my 6.5 Max (saum imp) and the 16" does 2950's with RL26, 2900 with H1K. In 28", she's around 300 fps faster.

Sidenote, the 135 Badlands is a slippery sucker and shoots great for me even in a 7.5 twist, although at lower velocities, it has better performance on game when twisted faster. From memory, I believe Badlands said 7 twist down to 1650 fps for game - so, you can do the math for RPM's and figure out your max distance with a different twist if needbe.