Having trouble finding the original article. Apparently lowlight was hitting a target at 1000 yards with a 16" POF. I was wondering what kind of load he was using and whether it was handload or factory?
Range Report 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
- Thread starter Dsparil
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Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
the thread that damn yuppie listed is the wrong one, that's his new GAP-10 with an 18". hear is the thread http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...915#Post2431915
the thread that damn yuppie listed is the wrong one, that's his new GAP-10 with an 18". hear is the thread http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...915#Post2431915
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
I only shoot factory.
That 1000 yard rifle is a 16" GAP that uses 39MOA to reach 1000 yards.
My POFs are also 16" but are here in CO, which doesn't count that is like having a 21" bbl. The GAP performs at sea level.
I only shoot factory.
That 1000 yard rifle is a 16" GAP that uses 39MOA to reach 1000 yards.
My POFs are also 16" but are here in CO, which doesn't count that is like having a 21" bbl. The GAP performs at sea level.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
getting a Larue OBR and fighting with myself in regards to whether to get 16" or 18" on the bbl. was planning on finding some m118lr for it and seeing if I can't drive it to 1000 yards. Should be ordering it in a week. and yeah I know you guys don't like Mark Larue, I'm not particularly fond of his attitude either but he makes a good product and I'm getting my LEO discount.
think 16" lothar walther bbl with m118lr or 175gr Southwest Premium will do 1k just fine?
I also meant to ask if compensating for wind is more tedious.
getting a Larue OBR and fighting with myself in regards to whether to get 16" or 18" on the bbl. was planning on finding some m118lr for it and seeing if I can't drive it to 1000 yards. Should be ordering it in a week. and yeah I know you guys don't like Mark Larue, I'm not particularly fond of his attitude either but he makes a good product and I'm getting my LEO discount.
think 16" lothar walther bbl with m118lr or 175gr Southwest Premium will do 1k just fine?
I also meant to ask if compensating for wind is more tedious.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
It depends on your location and env whether it will make it.
I have no issue with Mark and shook his hand at Shot, so there is nothing wrong with getting an OBR.
I was just around an OBR shooting M118LR with a DA of 2500 and it needed 42MOA To reach 1000 yards and was not very predictable. You're not buying a 1000 yard gun, though you can shoot it that far, it's not recommended. In TX in the summer it might do okay, in winter not much.
It barely cracks the 2500fps zone. So you can see the difference my GAP 16" needs 39MOA the OBR needed 42MOA.
It depends on your location and env whether it will make it.
I have no issue with Mark and shook his hand at Shot, so there is nothing wrong with getting an OBR.
I was just around an OBR shooting M118LR with a DA of 2500 and it needed 42MOA To reach 1000 yards and was not very predictable. You're not buying a 1000 yard gun, though you can shoot it that far, it's not recommended. In TX in the summer it might do okay, in winter not much.
It barely cracks the 2500fps zone. So you can see the difference my GAP 16" needs 39MOA the OBR needed 42MOA.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
think I'll go 20" then. 18" seems kind of redundant. Either it's compact or it isn't. already got razor hd at home waiting for it.
It will be running a surefire can.
think I'll go 20" then. 18" seems kind of redundant. Either it's compact or it isn't. already got razor hd at home waiting for it.
It will be running a surefire can.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
quick question: Wouldn't a surefire suppressor increase muzzle velocity? I'll be running a surfire 762 can on the obr. It'll be a complete package.
quick question: Wouldn't a surefire suppressor increase muzzle velocity? I'll be running a surfire 762 can on the obr. It'll be a complete package.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
Like 20fps if you are lucky, can be as low as 7fps the can won't make that much difference.
I have numbers from an LE officer using an OBR 16" and his MV was 2339fps average... do that math, let's say you are lucky and get 2450fps out of it, you are still short you're intended goal of 1k.
My GAP is over 2500 to compare.
it's all about the Barrel and LWs are not very fast as compared to a tight bore Bartlein or say a ROCK or a POF. Those barrels are faster downrange.
Like 20fps if you are lucky, can be as low as 7fps the can won't make that much difference.
I have numbers from an LE officer using an OBR 16" and his MV was 2339fps average... do that math, let's say you are lucky and get 2450fps out of it, you are still short you're intended goal of 1k.
My GAP is over 2500 to compare.
it's all about the Barrel and LWs are not very fast as compared to a tight bore Bartlein or say a ROCK or a POF. Those barrels are faster downrange.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
I have other numbers here with M118LR the military stuff, I have a MV of 2430fps which goes as low as 2407fps... so that is the high end of an OBR with 175gr ammo...
An 18.5" Gladius in the same class was running 2565fps with 175gr FGMM.
I have other numbers here with M118LR the military stuff, I have a MV of 2430fps which goes as low as 2407fps... so that is the high end of an OBR with 175gr ammo...
An 18.5" Gladius in the same class was running 2565fps with 175gr FGMM.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
If I were getting a semi auto .308, and this is just me, I would get the handiest 800 yard rig I could, which would be a 16" rig. The extra 4" of barrel isn't going to get you a whole lot, and 1000 is really just a number.
If I were getting a semi auto .308, and this is just me, I would get the handiest 800 yard rig I could, which would be a 16" rig. The extra 4" of barrel isn't going to get you a whole lot, and 1000 is really just a number.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
But for some, <span style="text-decoration: underline">it is the magic number</span>... some people never understand <span style="font-style: italic">magic</span> is just a fancy way of saying <span style="font-weight: bold">illusion.</span>
But for some, <span style="text-decoration: underline">it is the magic number</span>... some people never understand <span style="font-style: italic">magic</span> is just a fancy way of saying <span style="font-weight: bold">illusion.</span>
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
My 16" LMT MWS shoots a little better loaded down from max velocity. I have to go out of my way to get to a 1000yd range, which is why I would rather have an accurate rifle with a range of 800-850 yards than an unpredictable rifle that can keep a bullet supersonic at a range I rarely get a chance to shoot at.
I don't have any tattoos but if I did, I would have one that says "form follows function"
My 16" LMT MWS shoots a little better loaded down from max velocity. I have to go out of my way to get to a 1000yd range, which is why I would rather have an accurate rifle with a range of 800-850 yards than an unpredictable rifle that can keep a bullet supersonic at a range I rarely get a chance to shoot at.
I don't have any tattoos but if I did, I would have one that says "form follows function"
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
I am running 155 bergers in my 16" POF at 2550fps and it is a great 5-600 yard gun....hit after hit. It does decent at 775yds which is as far as I have shot it but it is dying fast and goes subsonic around 900yds. I agree with the advice to go with the handiest set up for 800 max as a realistic range suitable for a range of temps and DA's. Typically if I am shooting beyond 600 it stays home in favor of a bolt gun. Fun platform but not ideal for the magic number or even the magic number -100yds.
I am running 155 bergers in my 16" POF at 2550fps and it is a great 5-600 yard gun....hit after hit. It does decent at 775yds which is as far as I have shot it but it is dying fast and goes subsonic around 900yds. I agree with the advice to go with the handiest set up for 800 max as a realistic range suitable for a range of temps and DA's. Typically if I am shooting beyond 600 it stays home in favor of a bolt gun. Fun platform but not ideal for the magic number or even the magic number -100yds.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
I'd run a 9.5 twist ROCK and 155 Scenars as hard as I could push em SAFELY and shoot as far as I damn well pleased, but that's just me.... Plenty of subsonic stability
I'd run a 9.5 twist ROCK and 155 Scenars as hard as I could push em SAFELY and shoot as far as I damn well pleased, but that's just me.... Plenty of subsonic stability
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OFIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have any tattoos but if I did, I would have one that says "form follows function" </div></div>
that would be a lame tattoo.... just saying
maybe get it in chinese symbols so it doesnt look immediately lame. Like GSP's chest, probably says "I love kittens" but who would know...(besides the chinese)
sorry, back on topic............
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OFIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have any tattoos but if I did, I would have one that says "form follows function" </div></div>
that would be a lame tattoo.... just saying
maybe get it in chinese symbols so it doesnt look immediately lame. Like GSP's chest, probably says "I love kittens" but who would know...(besides the chinese)
sorry, back on topic............
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
16" if you want something you can carry around/take hunting, 20" if you want a range rifle. I would get a GAP (or build something for myself) before I got an OBR.
16" if you want something you can carry around/take hunting, 20" if you want a range rifle. I would get a GAP (or build something for myself) before I got an OBR.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dsparil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having trouble finding the original article. Apparently lowlight was hitting a target at 1000 yards with a 16" POF. I was wondering what kind of load he was using and whether it was handload or factory? </div></div>
Here is an answer that works. The transonic stable new 175 projectile from Berger. Contact Bryan directly. He has tested a 16" LaRue with the ammo at like 800' ASL with great success before bringing the bullet/ammo to market.
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/TacticalAmmo.html
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dsparil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Having trouble finding the original article. Apparently lowlight was hitting a target at 1000 yards with a 16" POF. I was wondering what kind of load he was using and whether it was handload or factory? </div></div>
Here is an answer that works. The transonic stable new 175 projectile from Berger. Contact Bryan directly. He has tested a 16" LaRue with the ammo at like 800' ASL with great success before bringing the bullet/ammo to market.
http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/TacticalAmmo.html
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goose375</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OFIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have any tattoos but if I did, I would have one that says "form follows function" </div></div>
that would be a lame tattoo.... just saying
maybe get it in chinese symbols so it doesnt look immediately lame. Like GSP's chest, probably says "I love kittens" but who would know...(besides the chinese)
sorry, back on topic............ </div></div>
More to the sentiment of a permanent reminder than being literal
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Goose375</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OFIS</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have any tattoos but if I did, I would have one that says "form follows function" </div></div>
that would be a lame tattoo.... just saying
maybe get it in chinese symbols so it doesnt look immediately lame. Like GSP's chest, probably says "I love kittens" but who would know...(besides the chinese)
sorry, back on topic............ </div></div>
More to the sentiment of a permanent reminder than being literal
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
Call me crazy, but I just don't understand the motivation behind trying to drive a 16" semi to 1000 yd, or more specifically, buying one with that primary purpose in mind. Can it be done? Sure, there are a number of post where people have reported doing just that. Look at some of Lowlight's posts if you want proof that it can be done. But that is in the hands of an expert highly experienced long distance marksman. For most average shooters, it's simply not the <span style="font-style: italic">optimal</span> tool for the job.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure for those fotunate enough to have access to a 1000 yd range that it's a hell of a lot of fun to play around with one at that range. Along the same lines, I have the DTA Covert with the 16" pipe that I shoot to 600 yd on a regular basis (max at my range). I would most definitely try it at 1000 yd if my range went out that far, and in fact the guys at DTA have successfully done exactly that. But I certainly didn't <span style="font-style: italic">buy</span> it with 1000 yd in mind.
I'm currently getting set to order a couple of POFs in 5.56 and .308 with the 14.5" barrels. I have no expectations whatsoever of using those for ranges greater than 300-400 yd, even if they might be capable of accurate fire to greater distances. It doesn't seem as though that's really what they were designed to do, even if they can with the right driver. I suspect that more often than not, the average person buying a 16" semi with the idea of shooting regularly to 800-1000 yd is ultimately going to be disappointed with the performance of their weapon system. I understand Lowlight's reference to 1000 yd being the "magic number" and the psychology behind it. As far as "magic" goes, I'm all for it, anything that will help improve my shooting (LOL).
I'm perfectly happy with being proficient and consistent at any range up to 500 yd. For me, that is a realistic goal and expectation from my equipment. So whenever I read similar threads about running a 16" semi out to 1000 yd, I wonder how many people would go to the hardware store and drop thousands of dollars on some type of tool knowing that it was completely wrong for the job they needed to do? So why do the same thing with a rifle? Hey, if you're skilled enough to be consistent at that range with that type of weapon, more power to you. If not, it seems rather foolish not to use hard earned $$$ to get the right tool for the job.
Call me crazy, but I just don't understand the motivation behind trying to drive a 16" semi to 1000 yd, or more specifically, buying one with that primary purpose in mind. Can it be done? Sure, there are a number of post where people have reported doing just that. Look at some of Lowlight's posts if you want proof that it can be done. But that is in the hands of an expert highly experienced long distance marksman. For most average shooters, it's simply not the <span style="font-style: italic">optimal</span> tool for the job.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure for those fotunate enough to have access to a 1000 yd range that it's a hell of a lot of fun to play around with one at that range. Along the same lines, I have the DTA Covert with the 16" pipe that I shoot to 600 yd on a regular basis (max at my range). I would most definitely try it at 1000 yd if my range went out that far, and in fact the guys at DTA have successfully done exactly that. But I certainly didn't <span style="font-style: italic">buy</span> it with 1000 yd in mind.
I'm currently getting set to order a couple of POFs in 5.56 and .308 with the 14.5" barrels. I have no expectations whatsoever of using those for ranges greater than 300-400 yd, even if they might be capable of accurate fire to greater distances. It doesn't seem as though that's really what they were designed to do, even if they can with the right driver. I suspect that more often than not, the average person buying a 16" semi with the idea of shooting regularly to 800-1000 yd is ultimately going to be disappointed with the performance of their weapon system. I understand Lowlight's reference to 1000 yd being the "magic number" and the psychology behind it. As far as "magic" goes, I'm all for it, anything that will help improve my shooting (LOL).
I'm perfectly happy with being proficient and consistent at any range up to 500 yd. For me, that is a realistic goal and expectation from my equipment. So whenever I read similar threads about running a 16" semi out to 1000 yd, I wonder how many people would go to the hardware store and drop thousands of dollars on some type of tool knowing that it was completely wrong for the job they needed to do? So why do the same thing with a rifle? Hey, if you're skilled enough to be consistent at that range with that type of weapon, more power to you. If not, it seems rather foolish not to use hard earned $$$ to get the right tool for the job.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
It's definitely the wrong tool for the job, and just because we can do something doesn't mean we should or that it is recommended.
I have definitely advocated shorter, lighter, tactical rifles for people, and absolutely feel that for a tactical rifle in 308, 22" is the optimal barrel length when you consider modern firearms. Really going to 24" is a safe bet for a lot of new shooters, but 22" I feel is perfect to 1000 yards under all but the worst conditions. That said,
Experience has demonstrated that while some people can drive an 18.5" 308 successfully to 1000 yards, it's not for the masses, nor is it an enthusiasts / Hobbyists solution. Those guys should stick to 22" or even 24" because their skill level just doesn't let them employ these shorter rifles to their full potential, it takes patience and more importantly perfect practice.
Now, another caveat... elevation. If you live in Colorado like I do and shoot at 5000 ft, or even higher, you can go pretty darn short with equal efficiency. However guys at sea level, you have to consider your location. You need to account for environmental conditions like cold weather and dense air. So you need to stay above 20" in most cases to reach 1000 yards. Yes you can do it on occasion, and you can handload to make up some distance, but really you need to focus on 20" to 24" and not 20" and less.
Is this a change in my position, sure it could be considered a change, but after seeing it played out over time, I believe it is necessary to say... that said, experienced people can be an exception to that rule, as well as people who practice. But those are exceptions and shouldn't' be the rule.
Now, if you are in LE and you're gonna be moving in and out of buildings and vehicles, a 16" 308 might be the perfect solution, but I find most urban areas are not affording you shots beyond 600 yards, so the 16" 308 is probably perfect. Can it happen the need to shoot farther, yes, and you should practice to the max effective range of your system as determined by the ballistics of that rifle. If you find the round you are using is going transonic at 830 yards, then you know you have a 800 yard rifle so practice to that. Ideally you want to stay about 50fps over transonic which a ballistic program can tell you. Figure 1175fps to 1200fps should be your bare minimum for accuracy at distance, where ever that falls, that is as far as you go. Can you push it, sure but let's be realistic here. Hits matter, and once out of 10 shots is not accuracy, or a hit, it's dumb luck.
The right tool for the job, if you are going to 6000ft above sea level you can figure you get an extra inch of barrel per 1000 ft above sea level. But your muzzle velocity will tell the tale better than I can.
It's definitely the wrong tool for the job, and just because we can do something doesn't mean we should or that it is recommended.
I have definitely advocated shorter, lighter, tactical rifles for people, and absolutely feel that for a tactical rifle in 308, 22" is the optimal barrel length when you consider modern firearms. Really going to 24" is a safe bet for a lot of new shooters, but 22" I feel is perfect to 1000 yards under all but the worst conditions. That said,
Experience has demonstrated that while some people can drive an 18.5" 308 successfully to 1000 yards, it's not for the masses, nor is it an enthusiasts / Hobbyists solution. Those guys should stick to 22" or even 24" because their skill level just doesn't let them employ these shorter rifles to their full potential, it takes patience and more importantly perfect practice.
Now, another caveat... elevation. If you live in Colorado like I do and shoot at 5000 ft, or even higher, you can go pretty darn short with equal efficiency. However guys at sea level, you have to consider your location. You need to account for environmental conditions like cold weather and dense air. So you need to stay above 20" in most cases to reach 1000 yards. Yes you can do it on occasion, and you can handload to make up some distance, but really you need to focus on 20" to 24" and not 20" and less.
Is this a change in my position, sure it could be considered a change, but after seeing it played out over time, I believe it is necessary to say... that said, experienced people can be an exception to that rule, as well as people who practice. But those are exceptions and shouldn't' be the rule.
Now, if you are in LE and you're gonna be moving in and out of buildings and vehicles, a 16" 308 might be the perfect solution, but I find most urban areas are not affording you shots beyond 600 yards, so the 16" 308 is probably perfect. Can it happen the need to shoot farther, yes, and you should practice to the max effective range of your system as determined by the ballistics of that rifle. If you find the round you are using is going transonic at 830 yards, then you know you have a 800 yard rifle so practice to that. Ideally you want to stay about 50fps over transonic which a ballistic program can tell you. Figure 1175fps to 1200fps should be your bare minimum for accuracy at distance, where ever that falls, that is as far as you go. Can you push it, sure but let's be realistic here. Hits matter, and once out of 10 shots is not accuracy, or a hit, it's dumb luck.
The right tool for the job, if you are going to 6000ft above sea level you can figure you get an extra inch of barrel per 1000 ft above sea level. But your muzzle velocity will tell the tale better than I can.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
I second Frank's recommendations.
A 16-inch semi-auto can cover a wide range of missions but it is not optimum for longer ranges (i.e., 800 and beyond).
Sure it can be done, but if the target is important enough to shoot at it's probably important enough that you want to kill it with a first round hit -- bringing you back to a bolt-gun with either a longer barrel or a bigger cartridge with kinetic energy (i.e., a 175 or heavier out of a 24-inch or longer, or a .300 or .338).
I second Frank's recommendations.
A 16-inch semi-auto can cover a wide range of missions but it is not optimum for longer ranges (i.e., 800 and beyond).
Sure it can be done, but if the target is important enough to shoot at it's probably important enough that you want to kill it with a first round hit -- bringing you back to a bolt-gun with either a longer barrel or a bigger cartridge with kinetic energy (i.e., a 175 or heavier out of a 24-inch or longer, or a .300 or .338).
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
well then 20" is definitely what I want then because I'm right at the ocean lol.
well then 20" is definitely what I want then because I'm right at the ocean lol.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But for some, <span style="text-decoration: underline">it is the magic number</span>... some people never understand <span style="font-style: italic">magic</span> is just a fancy way of saying <span style="font-weight: bold">illusion.</span> </div></div>
I have heard it said that the distance between the 900 and 1000 yard firing points is the longest 100 yards on the rifle range.
Is that the illusion you are referring to?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">But for some, <span style="text-decoration: underline">it is the magic number</span>... some people never understand <span style="font-style: italic">magic</span> is just a fancy way of saying <span style="font-weight: bold">illusion.</span> </div></div>
I have heard it said that the distance between the 900 and 1000 yard firing points is the longest 100 yards on the rifle range.
Is that the illusion you are referring to?
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
A 22-inch M14 or AR-10 can be marginal in the summer at sea level shooting 175 Sierra Match Kings from a 1-12 twist, even with a really stout charge -- it needs to be going at least 2550 - 2600 feet per second.
Precision Shooting had some excellent articles covering this in the 90s when M14s/M1As were still the preferred Camp Perry 1,000-yard Service Rifle. Long Range M14s often had a 1/64" vent hole drilled in the end of the gas plug to balance the punishment from 175, 180, and 190-grain loads pushed with stout charges of 4895, 4064, and Varget.
The Marine Corps G4 load was a 168 pushed by a very, very large 4895 or 4064 charge -- enough that the brass was not usable after the first firing, and the receivers often had a "Ringing" sound as the bolt hit the end of the receiver.
AR-10s don't have the M14's risk of op-rod bending or receiver heel cracking.
1,000-yards:
With an M14:
A 22-inch M14 or AR-10 can be marginal in the summer at sea level shooting 175 Sierra Match Kings from a 1-12 twist, even with a really stout charge -- it needs to be going at least 2550 - 2600 feet per second.
Precision Shooting had some excellent articles covering this in the 90s when M14s/M1As were still the preferred Camp Perry 1,000-yard Service Rifle. Long Range M14s often had a 1/64" vent hole drilled in the end of the gas plug to balance the punishment from 175, 180, and 190-grain loads pushed with stout charges of 4895, 4064, and Varget.
The Marine Corps G4 load was a 168 pushed by a very, very large 4895 or 4064 charge -- enough that the brass was not usable after the first firing, and the receivers often had a "Ringing" sound as the bolt hit the end of the receiver.
AR-10s don't have the M14's risk of op-rod bending or receiver heel cracking.
1,000-yards:
With an M14:
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
My 18" GAP 10 has a MV of 2565fps with a factory 175gr load, and I suspect some of the new loads like those from Cor Bon will go well over 2600fps... better powders help the cause, not to mention good barrels. I have it on route to me here and will be chronographing with a better machine so we'll see how accurate that number is... but to 1000 yards my 16" GAP only needs 39MOA to 1000 yards, which is pretty fast. The GAP 10 was even better. Again, barrels matter, one has em, the others don't.
Getting an semi auto over 2600fps is not hard using 175gr bullets nowadays. Even 20" or shorter.
Leo, the illusion is the necessity to even have to shoot that far, as if 800 yards is not good enough if the rifle doesn't make 1000 yards it's no worth it. I'll take an 800 yard hammer any day of the week if its accurate and handy, like a lot I have seen. As Dave said, if I <span style="font-weight: bold">need</span> to shoot a 1k, I have better choices in my stable to choose from.
My 18" GAP 10 has a MV of 2565fps with a factory 175gr load, and I suspect some of the new loads like those from Cor Bon will go well over 2600fps... better powders help the cause, not to mention good barrels. I have it on route to me here and will be chronographing with a better machine so we'll see how accurate that number is... but to 1000 yards my 16" GAP only needs 39MOA to 1000 yards, which is pretty fast. The GAP 10 was even better. Again, barrels matter, one has em, the others don't.
Getting an semi auto over 2600fps is not hard using 175gr bullets nowadays. Even 20" or shorter.
Leo, the illusion is the necessity to even have to shoot that far, as if 800 yards is not good enough if the rifle doesn't make 1000 yards it's no worth it. I'll take an 800 yard hammer any day of the week if its accurate and handy, like a lot I have seen. As Dave said, if I <span style="font-weight: bold">need</span> to shoot a 1k, I have better choices in my stable to choose from.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
My point, and I believe Frank and I are on the same page on this one, is that 1000 yards is a somewhat arbitrary number, that many feel is the distance a rifle needs to be built around. If we were in most any other country in the world, we would be talking about a 914.4 meter rifle, which kind of brings my point into perspective.
I enjoy shooting a shorter barreled (18.5 inch) bolt .308, because the size is so much handier for me, especially with my can on it. I have been fortunate enough to have been given access to a piece of property where I can shoot any distance I choose. I generally set up at a different point every time, to collect good data and to keep my practice somewhat dynamic. The distances I shoot at are never even numbers, it is too much work to find the exact spot to set up to be an exact distance. Which, in a round about way, is getting me back to my point- that 1000 is just a number. We are practical/tactical shooters here on this site, and rarely will a target be set up at a known, even distance range at a tactical comp.
Getting all the way back around in full circle again- the .308 isn't a very good 1000 yard caliber to begin with. It can do it, but it doesn't do it particularly well compared to some other options. If I were building a rifle around the goal of being a great 1000 yard rig, I'd get a .260 or maybe even a magnum of some sort.
On the other hand- if I want a great all around rig that can occaisionally be called on for distances up to 1000 yards, a .308 would be what I would grab, and I wouldn't let the last little bit of distance I could squeeze out of it be a deciding factor on the barrel length.
-Bob
My point, and I believe Frank and I are on the same page on this one, is that 1000 yards is a somewhat arbitrary number, that many feel is the distance a rifle needs to be built around. If we were in most any other country in the world, we would be talking about a 914.4 meter rifle, which kind of brings my point into perspective.
I enjoy shooting a shorter barreled (18.5 inch) bolt .308, because the size is so much handier for me, especially with my can on it. I have been fortunate enough to have been given access to a piece of property where I can shoot any distance I choose. I generally set up at a different point every time, to collect good data and to keep my practice somewhat dynamic. The distances I shoot at are never even numbers, it is too much work to find the exact spot to set up to be an exact distance. Which, in a round about way, is getting me back to my point- that 1000 is just a number. We are practical/tactical shooters here on this site, and rarely will a target be set up at a known, even distance range at a tactical comp.
Getting all the way back around in full circle again- the .308 isn't a very good 1000 yard caliber to begin with. It can do it, but it doesn't do it particularly well compared to some other options. If I were building a rifle around the goal of being a great 1000 yard rig, I'd get a .260 or maybe even a magnum of some sort.
On the other hand- if I want a great all around rig that can occaisionally be called on for distances up to 1000 yards, a .308 would be what I would grab, and I wouldn't let the last little bit of distance I could squeeze out of it be a deciding factor on the barrel length.
-Bob
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
It is the argument of the gadget driving your mission, rather than the requirement helping you determine what you need.
If all you have is a hammer all problems begin looking like nails.
It is the argument of the gadget driving your mission, rather than the requirement helping you determine what you need.
If all you have is a hammer all problems begin looking like nails.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
In my locale; my EMC's numbers are pretty abysmal past 500.
Elevation and humidity are enemies..lol.
In my locale; my EMC's numbers are pretty abysmal past 500.
Elevation and humidity are enemies..lol.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
Ran an 18.5" 1-11 twist M14 last summer at 1000 yards. Shooting 175 GMM at 2475 muzzle, 200' elevation on a 75 degree day needed 45 moa to get there. Not overwhelmingly accurate, probably 1.5-2 moa average for 5 shot groups but JBM says it's only doing 1070fps at 1000 yards, which is a testament to the 175 Sierra going through transonic.
Ran an 18.5" 1-11 twist M14 last summer at 1000 yards. Shooting 175 GMM at 2475 muzzle, 200' elevation on a 75 degree day needed 45 moa to get there. Not overwhelmingly accurate, probably 1.5-2 moa average for 5 shot groups but JBM says it's only doing 1070fps at 1000 yards, which is a testament to the 175 Sierra going through transonic.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TallShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my locale; my EMC's numbers are pretty abysmal past 500.
Elevation and <span style="font-weight: bold">humidity are enemies</span>..lol.</div></div>
Except, if you knew better, high humidity actually makes the air "less dense" so the bullet flies better as there is less drag on it. Not to mention the difference between 90% and 10% humidity at 1000 yards is so small you couldn't even hold it. In bulletflight under calculate Ballistics if you change the humidity from 0 to 100% at 1000 yards the only difference I get is the MV moves from 1247fps at 0, to 1250fps at 100%, the elevation does not change.
The idea that humidity slows the bullet down is false...
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TallShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my locale; my EMC's numbers are pretty abysmal past 500.
Elevation and <span style="font-weight: bold">humidity are enemies</span>..lol.</div></div>
Except, if you knew better, high humidity actually makes the air "less dense" so the bullet flies better as there is less drag on it. Not to mention the difference between 90% and 10% humidity at 1000 yards is so small you couldn't even hold it. In bulletflight under calculate Ballistics if you change the humidity from 0 to 100% at 1000 yards the only difference I get is the MV moves from 1247fps at 0, to 1250fps at 100%, the elevation does not change.
The idea that humidity slows the bullet down is false...
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TallShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my locale; my EMC's numbers are pretty abysmal past 500.
Elevation and humidity are enemies..lol. </div></div>
Could be your loads, could be slow barrel, could be you (no offense) lots of things. I know when I miss it is me.
Another thing I'd add to the short vs. long argument is that a short barrel isn't necessarily lightweight. You can come to my house and lift my 18" SASS if you don't believe me.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TallShot</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In my locale; my EMC's numbers are pretty abysmal past 500.
Elevation and humidity are enemies..lol. </div></div>
Could be your loads, could be slow barrel, could be you (no offense) lots of things. I know when I miss it is me.
Another thing I'd add to the short vs. long argument is that a short barrel isn't necessarily lightweight. You can come to my house and lift my 18" SASS if you don't believe me.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
I know where he is coming from. The elevation is too low and the humidity is too high. There are too dam many bugs eating at you too. You sweat your ass off in the summer in the deep south. It is not all about the flight of the bullet. lol
I know where he is coming from. The elevation is too low and the humidity is too high. There are too dam many bugs eating at you too. You sweat your ass off in the summer in the deep south. It is not all about the flight of the bullet. lol
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
Yeah I've been to the South, no thanks on the weather down there. Stepping on the snapping turtle was fun too.
Yeah I've been to the South, no thanks on the weather down there. Stepping on the snapping turtle was fun too.
Re: 16" ar-10 to 1000 yards
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dsparil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">getting a Larue OBR and fighting with myself in regards to whether to get 16" or 18" on the bbl. was planning on finding some m118lr for it and seeing if I can't drive it to 1000 yards. Should be ordering it in a week. and yeah I know you guys don't like Mark Larue, I'm not particularly fond of his attitude either but he makes a good product and I'm getting my LEO discount.
think 16" lothar walther bbl with m118lr or 175gr Southwest Premium will do 1k just fine?
I also meant to ask if compensating for wind is more tedious. </div></div>
Whats the story on Mark Larue? Why is he not liked? whats the attitude? Honest I don't know??? Thanks.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dsparil</div><div class="ubbcode-body">getting a Larue OBR and fighting with myself in regards to whether to get 16" or 18" on the bbl. was planning on finding some m118lr for it and seeing if I can't drive it to 1000 yards. Should be ordering it in a week. and yeah I know you guys don't like Mark Larue, I'm not particularly fond of his attitude either but he makes a good product and I'm getting my LEO discount.
think 16" lothar walther bbl with m118lr or 175gr Southwest Premium will do 1k just fine?
I also meant to ask if compensating for wind is more tedious. </div></div>
Whats the story on Mark Larue? Why is he not liked? whats the attitude? Honest I don't know??? Thanks.
