190 grain SMK in 300 win mag.

[Vargmat]

After a pretty decent search around the web for COL measurements, I came up with not a whole lot more than; "I load them to mag length and just run that!". Well mag length varies, so it really does not say a whole lot. Not to me, anyway!
So what is the word on the street on COL for 190 grain SMK in 300 Winchester Magnum? Any solid advice?

Input would be much appreciated.

 

[Rob01]

Mag length to some might be the spec length listed in manuals or might be what mag they have but I would advise checking your chamber and seeing where it touches the ogive and then backing off from there. Load to your rifle and don't worry about others OAL.

 

[Vargmat]

Rob, the thing is that I have loaded and shot about 40 rounds with 190 grain SMK this far. Ive tried 4 different measurements, what Norma recommends (84mm), what VV recommends (84,8mm) and then I just continued to 85mm and 86mm and they all shoot like shit, quite frankly.
The speed is there, right around 2890 fps with low ES, but the accuracy is just terrible on either COL.

With factory fodder I shot right under 0,5 MOA at 100 meters, at best, with some generic FMJ. With the handloaded SMK id be happy if it was at around 1" but the harsh reality is that they are around 3" at best, no matter the COL. (5 shot groups)

It is frustrating.
I have been shooting and handloading for several years, and this is not a shooter error type of thing.

 

[Vargmat]

(sorry, pressed the wrong button).

The rifle is a Remington 700 police, bought new in box.

 

[MtnCreek]

I had no problem getting 1 moa groups from 190 smk / H1000 seating at book standard 3.34 in a Rem700P. I don't think seating depth is going to get you from 3" to 1".

 

[Vargmat]

I had no problem getting 1 moa groups from 190 smk / H1000 seating at book standard 3.34 in a Rem700P. I don't think seating depth is going to get you from 3" to 1".

3,34" is what VV recommends, tried that today and it turned out to be one of the worst groups ever shot with that rifle.

I shot 20 rounds today, round robin style, three different seating depths and needless to say it was nothing to write home about.

Im thinking that the barrel just does not like these bullets. I had a friend try some rounds too and he had the same experience, and he is a good and avid shooter that probably shots around 6-7000 rounds a year, probably more, as he pretty much lives at the range.

 

[MtnCreek]

190 smk shot better in mine than 220 smk. Later switched to 208 amax; best of the bunch, but now outdated. Powders I tried were H4831sc, Rx22 & 25 and H1000. H1000 was the clear winner with Rx22 being second. My rifle hated 4831; large groups and dirty. I have no exp with VV powders. I assume you're in Europe?

 

[culater]

(sorry, pressed the wrong button).

The rifle is a Remington 700 police, bought new in box.

That is you issue is the Barrel on a factory rifle. Trash the barrel and buy a new one and be done with it. I had a fellow shooter have a 700 police in 308. Couldn't get it to group to save his life.He put a new barrel on and life was good again.

 

[Vargmat]

That is you issue is the Barrel on a factory rifle. Trash the barrel and buy a new one and be done with it. I had a fellow shooter have a 700 police in 308. Couldn't get it to group to save his life.He put a new barrel on and life was good again.

Well, that is a very overused blanket statement, if you ask me.
Explain to me how that very same barrel shoots just fine with other projectiles but when it cant print groups worth a damn with 190 grain SMK then the barrel is to blame? To me it makes sense that the bullets and/or powder combination just is not working. Ive had the same issue with my match rifle chambered in 6,5x47 Lapua running 123 grain scenars, went over to 130 grain golden target and it has been a tackdriver ever since, with close to 1500 rounds down the tube, so far.

 

[Vargmat]

190 smk shot better in mine than 220 smk. Later switched to 208 amax; best of the bunch, but now outdated. Powders I tried were H4831sc, Rx22 & 25 and H1000. H1000 was the clear winner with Rx22 being second. My rifle hated 4831; large groups and dirty. I have no exp with VV powders. I assume you're in Europe?

I was thinking about getting some 208 grain HPBT match bullets to try. According to VV:s burnrate chart 4831 is the same as Norma MRP which is what I have been using, maybe its part of the problem?
Maybe I should get some other powder to try? I wont be able to get H1000 but VV 165 appears to be close, and I should be able to pick some up.

Im in Europe, yes. Sweden to be precise..

 

[flyright]

Try different bullets, maybe the same ones that did well with the factory rounds. Some rifles shoot a lot of different bullets/powders well, some are very finicky. If I can't find a load that shoots well after a reasonable amount of testing - say 200-300 rounds - I'm getting a different barrel. I've only had to do this a few times but it does happen. I just can't warrant the expense and frustration working with a barrel that doesn't play well. It's too easy to get a forgiving barrel these days.

 

[Rob01]

190 smk shot better in mine than 220 smk. Later switched to 208 amax; best of the bunch, but now outdated. Powders I tried were H4831sc, Rx22 & 25 and H1000. H1000 was the clear winner with Rx22 being second. My rifle hated 4831; large groups and dirty. I have no exp with VV powders. I assume you're in Europe?

208 AMAX is not outdated but has been discontinued and replaced by the 208 ELD-M, which has a better BC. Well worth a try and the 208 AMAX was my go to bullet in the 300WM. I used the 190 SMK when I started back in late 90s with the 300WM but soon looked elsewhere for better performance. Went to the 210 VLD and then the 208 AMAX. That weight bullet is about perfect in the 300WM for long range. Great BCs and you can get them to good velocities.

I also used H1000 and went to it from RL22 which I found to be more temp sensitive than H1000, which is very stable.

 

[supercorndogs]

Right now I am running the 200ELD over 4831SC MV is just a little above 3k. I don't remember my LTO. I just started a new load with 7977 and the 208 a max. LTO is 2.88 I haven't checked MV should be between 2800 and 2900. I may chronograph today before I go to work. The 208s looked pretty bad until I worked length. If you worked length and they still shoot bad, its time to forget about that bullet in that rifle, in my opinion. I measure my freebore and start .02 off. My OAL and LTO doesn't mean much to anyone else.

 

[Vargmat]

Well, thanks for the input everyone.

I will do one last ladder test with a yet to be measured COL. This far, the longest cartridges were loaded with a COL of 3,385", ill try to stretch it a bit further still.
As it is, I still only have Norma MRP powder to use, so ill give that one last spin too.

If nothing works im moving on over to my box of 212 grain ELD-X.

 

[Vargmat]

Just wanted to add on that I did another ladder test with the SMK, with a COL of 3,425" and 73 grains of MRP the groups went a bit below MOA. Nothing spectacular but way better than before.
I also took my time and made another ladder with Hornady ELD-X 212 grain, COL 3,503" the step with 69,5 grains of MRP printed a nice clover group measuring about 0.35" MOA. And thats with a factory barrel that someone thought I should replace... Go figure!

More to follow!