1903A3 Barrel Question

[kentuckyMarksman]

I know this rifle isn't a vintage sniper, but it is a vintage rifle. I recently had the CMP install a new Criterion barrel on my 1903A3 rifle. After they installed the barrel, they also finish reamed the chamber. They did not test fire it, they called me to tell me that they would not test fire my rifle since the receiver was at one time part of a drill rifle, and their policy is to not test fire rifles where the receiver was recovered from a drill rifle.

The spot weld on the receiver ring looks to be very minor, and I intend on shooting this rifle.

I haven't fired this rifle yet, but does it need to be lapped in any way, or does the finish reaming process take care of it? Does the barrel need to be broken in?

 

[sandwarrior]

I know this rifle isn't a vintage sniper, but it is a vintage rifle. I recently had the CMP install a new Criterion barrel on my 1903A3 rifle. After they installed the barrel, they also finish reamed the chamber. They did not test fire it, they called me to tell me that they would not test fire my rifle since the receiver was at one time part of a drill rifle, and their policy is to not test fire rifles where the receiver was recovered from a drill rifle.

The spot weld on the receiver ring looks to be very minor, and I intend on shooting this rifle.

I haven't fired this rifle yet, but does it need to be lapped in any way, or does the finish reaming process take care of it? Does the barrel need to be broken in?

kentucky,

First, While we like sniper rifles, what you have is exactly a lot of what we talk about in Vintage. So, you're all good!

As to test firing a former drill receiver, You might want to test fire it under a bunch of sandbags. String to the trigger and see how it comes out. You may never want to try and run hot rounds through that rifle. Or test hot rounds under a sandbag, and if they come out it's all good. Inspect frequently for cracks.

Yes, you could do the shoot and clean method of break in. That barrel was probably not lapped in by the CMP upon installation. What the "break-in" is doing is exposing mill marks in the throat to direct hot powder plasma that otherwise might be partially covered by residual copper. Breaking in a barrel isn't going to make a 1" rifle shoot 1/2". It will generally only help make a .2" barrel shoot in the .1" range. IF, big if, the throat hadn't been fully lapped in. Your rifle probably isn't an uber accurate rifle to begin with, so break in is a personal choice, just to see if it shoots better.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

Thanks for the reply!

Ok, good info. I think I'll drop the rifle off at the local gunsmith and let them test fire it for me with some hotter rounds.

Thanks for the clarification. Sounds like I'm not going to bother with a "break-in" on this one.

 

[earlcurtis67]

You might want to call Criterion directly. They will be able to tell you how the barrel was lapped/finished and would be able to suggest how to break in the barrel. I have several of their barrels and they all shoot well and they have excellent customer service. Good luck. E

 

[Alpha_November]

I have one of those Criterion barreled 03A3s and I've shot sub MOA 10 round groups at our local mil bolt matches several times with her. That was from the bench with iron sights.

Nope. I didn't break it in. And rarely clean it.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

I have one of those Criterion barreled 03A3s and I've shot sub MOA 10 round groups at our local mil bolt matches several times with her. That was from the bench with iron sights.

Nope. I didn't break it in. And rarely clean it.

Awesome! Thanks for the info!

 

[kraigWY]

I dont have the Criterion barrel on my '03s but I do on my M1s. My first M1's barrel was shot out. I used it when I was running sniper school for the AK NG using M1C/Ds. Anyway shooting the CMP Garand Matches I noticed my accuracy was going south. At the Oklahoma Games I had the CMP Armors put on a Criterion barrel. I dont know if they test fired it or not, but I guess you can say I broke it in shooting the Garand Match that afternoon. It shot damn good in that match and several others since.

My second Criterion barrel I put on building the rifle during the CMPs Advanced Maintenance Class. It was test fired and worked. After the class I took it to the Tag. Range and shot it at 200, 300, and 600 yards on their fancy targets. Shot good in that "break in session". Still shoots as I switch it out with the above rifle in different Garand Matches.

When I was running the AK NG Marksmanship Unit, I replaced a lot of M14 barrels. They were shot enough to get them settled in the bedding, after that they went to shoot matches.

I believe all it takes to "break in" a barrel on a surplus rifle is to sight it in. JMHO

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

I dont have the Criterion barrel on my '03s but I do on my M1s. My first M1's barrel was shot out. I used it when I was running sniper school for the AK NG using M1C/Ds. Anyway shooting the CMP Garand Matches I noticed my accuracy was going south. At the Oklahoma Games I had the CMP Armors put on a Criterion barrel. I dont know if they test fired it or not, but I guess you can say I broke it in shooting the Garand Match that afternoon. It shot damn good in that match and several others since.

My second Criterion barrel I put on building the rifle during the CMPs Advanced Maintenance Class. It was test fired and worked. After the class I took it to the Tag. Range and shot it at 200, 300, and 600 yards on their fancy targets. Shot good in that "break in session". Still shoots as I switch it out with the above rifle in different Garand Matches.

When I was running the AK NG Marksmanship Unit, I replaced a lot of M14 barrels. They were shot enough to get them settled in the bedding, after that they went to shoot matches.

I believe all it takes to "break in" a barrel on a surplus rifle is to sight it in. JMHO

Thanks! I think you are right!

 

[E.Maker]

I think the best advise is what was mentioned above, call Criterion.

Barrel break in procedures, and even whether or not to do them, are controversial. Best ask the manufacturer.

I follow the opinion that most modern barrels need no break in.

Ephram M.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

Thought I'd take a picture of the weld on the barrel band for you all. What do you think?

 

[pmclaine]

Lots of people shoot recovered drill rifles.

That looks like a pretty minor tack weld at the barrel ring.

The bigger weld mess is usually at the magazine cut off switch. The academies didnt want anyone screwing up inspection arms getting the bolt hung up on the follower.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

Lots of people shoot recovered drill rifles.

That looks like a pretty minor tack weld at the barrel ring.

The bigger weld mess is usually at the magazine cut off switch. The academies didnt want anyone screwing up inspection arms getting the bolt hung up on the follower.

Thanks for the reply! I plan on loading up some reduced loads for it and shooting it.

Yeah. The weld on the magazine cutoff looks like it was bigger, but it cleaned up well.

 

[pmclaine]

Thanks for the reply! I plan on loading up some reduced loads for it and shooting it.

Yeah. The weld on the magazine cutoff looks like it was bigger, but it cleaned up well.

as far as restorations go yours looks like it was pretty easy.

On the CMP forums there are real ugly pictures of what the welder did yet still the guns were restored to service.

 

[8208]

First off, you need to get some facts straight. The guys that say because it was a drill rifle that it needs to be tested under bags and with a string around the corner, down the street and in a bomb shelter are full of crap. UNLESS it was booger welded at the front of the receiver awful badly, the possibility of it dynamically disassembling itself is very minute. There were some 1903 rifles (not a3 or a4) that were not heat treated correctly. The A3 and A4 rifles were heat treated extensively due to this which resulted in them being very hard. This is why most gun plumbers dread tapping them for scope mounts. They dull the crap out of our tooling. They are not ANY less accurate due to being a former drill rifle. I finished an A4 that was a prior drill rifle that shoots amazingly. I recently gave it to a close friend as a coveted retirement gift and he called after running 173gr match ammo through it because he couldn't believe how tight it shot. Collectors get butthurt over drill rifles due to the fear of them making their rifles worth less on the market (because they paid a stupid amount of money for a mass produced rifle). Shoot your rifle and enjoy it. CMP does not want to incur any liability and they do not want to cause a decrease in their auction profits. As far as break in, everyone does it different but just be sure to run some oil through after cleaning it as they will rust. Good luck and happy shooting.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

as far as restorations go yours looks like it was pretty easy.

On the CMP forums there are real ugly pictures of what the welder did yet still the guns were restored to service.

I can imagine. I also own an unrestored M1 Garand drill rifle, and can attest that the welder really went to town on the bottom of the action on that rifle. That M1 isn't restorable, but I bought it to use as a wall hanger. It's the 2nd from the right in this photo. The other M1, and the M14 are both functional rifles.

First off, you need to get some facts straight. The guys that say because it was a drill rifle that it needs to be tested under bags and with a string around the corner, down the street and in a bomb shelter are full of crap. UNLESS it was booger welded at the front of the receiver awful badly, the possibility of it dynamically disassembling itself is very minute. There were some 1903 rifles (not a3 or a4) that were not heat treated correctly. The A3 and A4 rifles were heat treated extensively due to this which resulted in them being very hard. This is why most gun plumbers dread tapping them for scope mounts. They dull the crap out of our tooling. They are not ANY less accurate due to being a former drill rifle. I finished an A4 that was a prior drill rifle that shoots amazingly. I recently gave it to a close friend as a coveted retirement gift and he called after running 173gr match ammo through it because he couldn't believe how tight it shot. Collectors get butthurt over drill rifles due to the fear of them making their rifles worth less on the market (because they paid a stupid amount of money for a mass produced rifle). Shoot your rifle and enjoy it. CMP does not want to incur any liability and they do not want to cause a decrease in their auction profits. As far as break in, everyone does it different but just be sure to run some oil through after cleaning it as they will rust. Good luck and happy shooting.

Thank you for the reply! Yeah, it didn't quite make sense to me how the rifle would dynamically disassemble, I thought if anything I may lose some headspace and figured I would need to monitor it for a while. Glad to hear that your A4 build went well.

I even asked the local gunsmith about this rifle, and I had to explain to him that the 1903 rifle was different than the 1903A3 rifle, and that there was a 1903A4 as well. He insisted all rifles starting with "1903" in the name were unsafe to shoot because of heat treat issues... he also tells people to shoot full power 30.06 hunting rounds through M1 Garands... but he's the only gunsmith in town. I prefer to ship my stuff out to get worked on.

I got the break in directions from Criterion. I think I'll follow them.

 

[8208]

I have found that the M1 drill rifles are really all over the map. I did restore one that I purchased from CMP North but it had minimal tack welding. After it cleaned up, you cannot tell it was a drill rifle. i am of course referring to the receiver. The barrel, gas assembly, and bolt were worthless and had to be replaced.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

I have found that the M1 drill rifles are really all over the map. I did restore one that I purchased from CMP North but it had minimal tack welding. After it cleaned up, you cannot tell it was a drill rifle. i am of course referring to the receiver. The barrel, gas assembly, and bolt were worthless and had to be replaced.

Here is the underside of my M1 drill rifle. I believe the barrel, bolt, and receiver are trash on this one.

 

[pmclaine]

A machinist that can reverse engineer the original machining of the receiver could probably get the receiver running again (think rewelds) but is it worth the time and effort with receivers being readily available?

Id keep it as a nice wall hanger.

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

Id keep it as a nice wall hanger.

That's the plan!

 

[pmclaine]

That's the plan!

Just dont ever touch it after you hang it........something obscene and frustrating in the thought of not being able to rack the action.

 

[sandwarrior]

I can imagine. I also own an unrestored M1 Garand drill rifle, and can attest that the welder really went to town on the bottom of the action on that rifle. That M1 isn't restorable, but I bought it to use as a wall hanger. It's the 2nd from the right in this photo. The other M1, and the M14 are both functional rifles.






Thank you for the reply! Yeah, it didn't quite make sense to me how the rifle would dynamically disassemble, I thought if anything I may lose some headspace and figured I would need to monitor it for a while. Glad to hear that your A4 build went well.

I even asked the local gunsmith about this rifle, and I had to explain to him that the 1903 rifle was different than the 1903A3 rifle, and that there was a 1903A4 as well. He insisted all rifles starting with "1903" in the name were unsafe to shoot because of heat treat issues... he also tells people to shoot full power 30.06 hunting rounds through M1 Garands... but he's the only gunsmith in town. I prefer to ship my stuff out to get worked on.

I got the break in directions from Criterion. I think I'll follow them.

The rifle doesn’t “dynamically disassemble”. It can blow up if the heat treating is changed enough. That’s why you test it from a safe distance. But Kintuck, feel free to shoot it without testing it.
And the heat treating issue applies to Springfield 1903’s up to serial number 800,000 and Rock Island Armory serial number’s up to 450,000.
No need to believe any of that though. You guys already seem to all about these issues.

 

[8208]

I think you got some sand somewhere..... LOL same thing fella. The range is correct bro but if it was in that range CMP would not have rebarreled it. Mike and the rest of the guys at the south location are adamant about that.

As far as the M1 KM, It is toast. Sorry but I think you already know this. Next one you get, take it to the counter and let the guys take it out of the stock so you can inspect it before purchase.

 

[sandwarrior]

I think you got some sand somewhere..... LOL same thing fella. The range is correct bro but if it was in that range CMP would not have rebarreled it. Mike and the rest of the guys at the south location are adamant about that.

As far as the M1 KM, It is toast. Sorry but I think you already know this. Next one you get, take it to the counter and let the guys take it out of the stock so you can inspect it before purchase.

You might want to go back and reread the OP’s first post. The CMP wouldn’t test the rifle. They want him to do it. You should jump on over to his range and test it for him. You seem pretty sure this rifle doesn’t need to be tested

 

[8208]

I think you need to be tested. They won't test it because it was a drill rifle. I would have no problem inspecting and testing his rifle. I have done plenty of them.

 

[sandwarrior]

I think you need to be tested. They won't test it because it was a drill rifle. I would have no problem inspecting and testing his rifle. I have done plenty of them.

Exactly what we said. He wants to shoot it. In which case the rifle needs to be tested... without having his face right next to it

 

[kentuckyMarksman]

As far as the M1 KM, It is toast. Sorry but I think you already know this. Next one you get, take it to the counter and let the guys take it out of the stock so you can inspect it before purchase.

Right, I bought it knowing it was toast. The seller was very up front about it. I only paid $75 for it. I was very happy to pay that price for it.

 

[pmclaine]

Right, I bought it knowing it was toast. The seller was very up front about it. I only paid $75 for it. I was very happy to pay that price for it.

Easily $75 dollars in parts/wood alone. A steal.