2 Progressive Press Questions

bohem

bohem

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Jan 6, 2009
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#1
I'm finally breaking down and getting a progressive press. I'm 90% set on a Dillon 550 or 650, but the 650 is at the top end of my budget.

The two primary questions are

1) The 550 vs. 650 difference seems to be the way the shellplate indexes. Is the mechanically indexed plate really that much nicer or does it increase output that much?

2) I've looked at the Hornady Lock-n-Load AP and it seems like it has a nifty system for caliber changing, it's midway between the two dillons and it seems to have all the features of the 650. Is it worth the extra 150 bucks for the 650?

Third, slightly less pressing question.

Can I use the regular RCBS and Lee and Redding dies that I have already? The steps seem to look like I can use the standard 2 or 3 die sets, is that true?
 
#2
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

I have a Dillon 550b and like it so much that I named my son Dillon (seriously). I have never used the other presses mentioned but for a good progressive it is hard to beat. I would get it and spend the extra money for the strong mount and roller handle.
grin.gif
 
#3
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

Do you find that the 550b manual indexing is a pain in the neck or wish it would mechanically index?

That seems to be the only hitch between the two Dillon presses, the Hornady is really a secondary consideration for me in case I can't find a reasonable wait time on either Dillon press.
 
#4
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

All other things equal, $123.00 (according to the June Blue Press catalog, with the hot blonde babe holding a mini-14!) additional cost for the 650 is small potatoes. I know that sounds stupid given the current economical state of our nation, but there you are.

$123 is couple dinner dates, a trip to an amusement park, a tire, etc...

I own the 550 and am very happy with it.The down side of the 650, as I see it, is that the auto indexing takes some of the utility I enjoy out of the process. For example, I load pistols and bulk rifle ammo progressively. But I load my precision ammo on it as a modified single stage process. As I haven't used the 650, I'm not certain you can't roll the shell plate in either direction, but I understand one can't.

Point is, the 650 does provide an extra level of production than the 550 that arguably is worth an extra $123.00, with some loss of the versatility of the 550.

Frankly I thought the gulf was larger. Don't forget to include, tool heads and convesion kits for each set of dies (conversion kits share case head sizes so there is some cross utility in those). Also, powder bars and other stuff just seems to become necessary!

You can use anyone's dies. You can also employ the powder safety die to avoid double or zero charges that is difficult to use with only 4 die positions on the 550.

The case feeder is also better suited for the 650, though there is now one available for 550.

I can't help you with the L&L, though Hornady doesn't make any crap either.
 
#5
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

Thanks Queequeg, that's good to know.

I still have a Rockchucker that turns out some dandy precision ammo, and I won't be getting rid of it anytime soon. I understand what you're saying regarding the 550's versatility.

My 3 calibers that I want to hit the ground on immediately are

1) 10mm
2) 9mm
3) 223

I feel like I have to load all week long for a decent day at the range with my pistols. I'll be expanding that to 44 mag relatively soon, but I decided to buy the press and accessories before I buy the Super Redhawk.
 
#6
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

I have a 650 and I came from the lee Turd master. Yes not even a comparison.

I was debating the 550 or the 650 and went with the 650 because of the auto indexing and the extra slot in the tool head,Love having the powder check die, as one extra step in safe reloading, and the case feeder. The case feeder is an absolute necessity if you go with the 650 not so much with the 550.

You can crank out ammo like a champ once you get your system running smoothly.

Conversion Kits and dies add a significant price to your reloading budget. Adding the Strong mount, Roller handle and Bullet Trays are also make life so much nicer, border line necessities, but you can reload without them which I did for some time, but now that I have them, It makes reloading easier and much more pleasant.

If your really debating and would like some good info. Go over to Brian Enos and look around and give him a call if you really have some questions about the Dillons. I have purchased all of my stuff from him. Super fast shipping and when i was unsure about what I wanted. He took the time to talk over all of the pros' and cons of all the machines. He even talked me out of spending more money with things I did not need.

Have any ?'s feel free to ask.

I do .308, .223, .40, .45,and 9mm.
 
#7
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

The start up cost is just the tip of the iceberg, caliber change over kits are higher for the 650 also. I've got 3 550's and wouldn't trade one of them. The manual indexing becomes very natural after using the press for a while. The versatility is very useful for the different loading requirements of several calibers.
By all means go with the Dillon, and imho go with the 550.

I load, 221 Fireball, .223, 22-250, 6mm RAT, 6mm Dasher, 6 XC, .243, .308, 7mm mag., 380, 9mm, 38 super, 38 spl., 40S&W, 10mm, 44 mag, 45.
 
#8
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

So one question is answered no problem, but you guys have me wanting to buy both now LOL...

I'll give Brian Encos a call soon and see what he thinks. I have a feeling when I get this thing I'm going to see a lot more of my friends who have single stage presses...

I told my dad about the idea of getting one and he's already planning on being able to use it.
 
#9
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

Get Dad to pick up a caliber conversion and a set of dies. Seems like a fair trade off.


Yes, having multiple setups would be ideal but funds, limit most of us. Search around for some pre owned, They are hard to find, but I got mine off the hide, for a super super price. and its a dillon if something breaks they will take care of it.
 
#10
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

550. Versatility is better. Also, if a screwup occurs...primer feed fails, case head rips off, bridging in powder measure causing dumping of powder in the mechanism...much easier to clean up. Errors WILL happen. JMHO
 
#11
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

RS - Good call, I already told him that same thing. If he buys the caliber conversion he can use it to his heart's content.

From what a couple guys have said, as a first progressive the 550 sounds like a better way to go, and I"m not giving up all that much.

I've been looking for used stuff already, I'll keep my eyes open on the Hide for it. Thanks all.
smile.gif
 
#13
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

I don't know how many calibers you load for but I load 27 different calibers and the cost of the tool heads and caliber conversions is the biggest reason I went with the 550b. After using it for years I would still not change to the 650, I want the extra control of manual indexing.
 
#14
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

Having owned a 550 for 15 years, I can attest to the versatility of the Dillon unit, both for full progressive on pistol rounds and as a semi-progressive for more precise long-range rounds. I like what Former Naval said about the manual indexing when it comes to screwups, too. They will happen, just like crossfires. The slower pace with the 550 (marginally) gives a new user a gentler learning curve.

That being said...I would also look at the Hornady. Massive ram, 650 features at a 550 price point, and 1000 free Hornady bullets make it a viable option. I got the 150gr. .30 cals and after shipping, had $180 actual dollars in the press, from Cabelas. Offer is still on, I think. They don't offer the A-Max as a choice, but their hunting bullets can make for very accurate practice rounds. I also really like that it is made like a piece of equipment. It has alemite grease fittings on the linkages, vs. oil holes on my 550. Just my .02.

AG in NC
 
#15
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

Can't imagine loading .45 on anything other than my 650, but I prefer the 550 for rifle. I just like having conntrol over the indexing.

I still have an older Hornady progressive and it served me well for many years. If I needed/wanted another progressive, it would be blue.
 
#16
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It has alemite grease fittings on the linkages, vs. oil holes on my 550. Just my .02.</div></div>

The holes are for grease. You just need the right grease gun.
 
#17
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

I have the 550b and prefer the manual indexing. I find this especially useful for loading 223. I find 223 to be a pita to reload, primers get turned around, the cases are nearly full of Varget, etc. There's just lots of things that can go wrong and it's easier to control the pace with manual indexing.

I load 223 and 45 ACP (sooo easy to crank out the rounds) with the 550b and 308 with a Forster Co-Ax. Use any dies you want with the 550b. I use a Redding bench rest seater for 223.
 
#18
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

I was just recently in your shoes deciding on the XL650 or the Hornady LnL AP. I went with the Hornady with case feeder and I'm glad I did. First of all it was less expensive than the Dillon. For ~$900 I got the press and case feeder, 2 shell plates, 3 case feed plates and 11 LnL bushings. And thats before Hornady sends me 1000 free bullets. I can reload 10mm, 40S%W 357SIG and .223 with what I have now. Any new caliber MAY just cost me another shell plate ~$30, everything else for a caliber changeover is included with the press (except dies). The whole setup is impressive, simple and rugged. Like was posted earlier, it is a heavy duty precision piece of equipment. The die bushing system is IMO the best thing since sliced bread. My prior press used a removeable toolhead setup like the XL650. If it I had to reconfigure the dies they would have to be unscrewed, reinstalled then readjusted to some extent. With the bushing system the dies pop out with an eighth of a turn and go back in just as fast. No readjustment! Its all high quality and I'm very happy with it.
 
#19
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

Thanks for the continuing response guys, all the information is very helpful.

I'm starting to really lean towards the 550, I have a Rockchucker that I plan to continue using for precision ammo, but I'm loading the following calibers

9x19, 40SW, 10mm 223, 6-223, 204 Ruger, 30-06, 308, 7x57, 8x57, 22-250

As I understand it, changing calibers means changing the dies (or just re-adjusting them in the case of 10mm to 40SW) and changing the shellplate?

If that's the case, from what I have above, I need 2 shellplates for pistols and 2 for rifles?

I like Hornady's 1/8th turn cam-lock style fittings on the thing, I just need some more encouragement on the press I suppose. I like their bullets for sure...
 
#20
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

If you do a lot of straight case handgun handloading, I think you'll prefer the 650. I do both kinds of cases and I like the flexibility the 550's manual indexing allows. I am so used to the manual indexing I don't even notice I'm doing it anymore. I make my ammo using RCBS (for the most part) 2-die sets, and die quality has never been an issue for me. The biggest issue with my dies is keeping them clean.
 
#21
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

Probably 50-60% of the reloading that I'd be doing with this would be straightwalled pistol ammo, but I do load a pretty sizable amount of precision ammo. It would be nice to be able to run that progressively, but it's not a mandate.

The Hornady press looks really tempting with the bullet rebate and the features of the 650. The 550 is much closer to my budget, I'm just attracted to the Dillon warranty A LOT. Hornady won't cover broken pins or little stuff that we all know breaks at the worst moments.
 
#22
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

Here's another question.

It seems to me that anything with a reasonably close case length and common shell base should use the same caliber conversion kit right?

By this I mean I can load 223 and 204 Ruger on the same kit, the 308, 30-06, 8x57 mauser... I can load those on the same kit.

The determining factor is the shell plate and the length of the powder tube?
 
#23
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

Shellholder and buttons are the same, but you'll need a different powder funnel, if you want to use the powder measure. Powder funnels are sold separately.

Bill
 
#24
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

I use two 650s one for resizing and the other for loading. Also have a 550B. The only reason I have the 550B 'cause I got it for a song, otherwise if I needed another progressive I will get another 650.

As much as I shoot high power rifle the extra cost for the autoindexing and the case feeder is well worth the money spent on the 650s. There is a case feeder for 550, but at one time it was not available for rifle cases. Maybe they have one now.
 
#26
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

Why don't you SEARCH for info on the Hornady AP? A lot of good has been written about it. The powder facility is superior. Changeover is cheaper. You don't need machined toolheads with facilities for floating the dies or a two-step loading process to get straight ammo. The downside is that they're hard to find - popular.
 
#27
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Winchester 69</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why don't you SEARCH for info on the Hornady AP? A lot of good has been written about it. The powder facility is superior. Changeover is cheaper. You don't need machined toolheads with facilities for floating the dies or a two-step loading process to get straight ammo. The downside is that they're hard to find - popular. </div></div>

Not everything turned up in the search covered my questions, and initially I wasn't looking at the AP...

I'm trying to figure out now if the prices listed online for it include the powder measure, primer tubes, loaded round tray, etc. Cabela's website is piss-poor on information for it.

EDIT: Midway's site is much better for the info, I'm starting to really consider the LnL AP. I like that I can spin the adapter out of my Rockchucker and stick the LnL adapter in it so I can single stage the dies if need be without changing the set points.
 
#31
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

Someone commented that Hornady does not cover the small things that break. WRONG!

They send them snail mail but they do not charge you for them.
 
#32
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rookie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone commented that Hornady does not cover the small things that break. WRONG!

They send them snail mail but they do not charge you for them. </div></div>

I think I said that, it came from what I understood their warranty to be from reading it. That's great information to have, thank you.

I am going to get the LnL AP, I placed the order this morning for it.

Thanks for all the info and help guys, I'll probably have some more questions on efficiently loading with it soon.
smile.gif
 
#33
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going to get the LnL AP, I placed the order this morning for it.

Thanks for all the info and help guys, I'll probably have some more questions on efficiently loading with it soon.
smile.gif
</div></div>
There is a case retainer spring that fits around the shellplate. It is subject to being damaged if not properly handled. You may want to keep a spare on hand in the event.

Also, having an individual lower assembly to the case-activated powder drop for each chambering that you load makes for very quick changeovers. I've seen the lower assembly priced at $16; that's a heck of lot cheaper than Dillon's deal of toolhead with individual powder measure. You'll want a supply of the LnL bushings; they're available in three's and ten's. For the powder measure, you can get either micrometer adjustment or individual metering inserts; they snap in and out. You may also find the powder drain insert handy. Hornady has a separate drum and metering assembly available for pistol calibers.

A 3/8" fender washer dropped in the measure's reservoir will serve as a powder baffle, unless you choose to fashion your own.
 
#35
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rookie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Someone commented that Hornady does not cover the small things that break. WRONG!

They send them snail mail but they do not charge you for them. </div></div>

I had to pay for worn powder drop bushing. Maybe if I had said they were broken?
 
#36
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

Win 69 - Thanks for the advice, I'm going to start with 10mm and 223 loading for now. I will probably end up with the snap in powder bushings soon enough. I bought an extra 3 bushings for the LnL setup as well. The kit comes with 5 but I agree, having extras of stuff like that is a good idea, especially for those "hrm... lets try this" scenario.

What's the purpose of a powder baffle?
 
#37
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

The baffle aids in uniform drops by providing a consistent amount of pressure on the powder as it drops. Without it you have more downward pressure with a full tube compared to when it's half full....if that makes any sense....

BTW - I use the Hornady powder measure with the case activated feed on one of my Dillons & am very pleased with it's consistency!

Hornady has the best phone answering service in the business...definitly have a sense of humor!
 
#38
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

I dont think anyone mentioned it, but the auto indexing of the 650 tends to reduce double powder charges if you are reloading pistol calibers. Most double charges happen when someone gets distracted and forgets to index the shell plate on a manual press. The 650 helps to reduce that by indexing when you raise the handle.

Just one more thing to think about.
 
#39
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

The Hornady AP no longer uses the ejector wire. The new system is called EZject, and it works better. The AP is now legitimately a 5-station press. You can use anyone's dies now in station 5. Less hastle now that you don't have to deal with that stupid wire.
 
#40
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

I bought the Hornady LnL AP with the new EZject system on it. The auto-indexing feature is a very good thing for me, I get distracted once in a while and end up re-doing powder charges because I'm not 100% sure of what I charged.

Thanks for the help, I really got great info from you guys.
 
#41
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

You're welcome.

Did you get the case feeder? If you did, check the hub bolts for the shellplate in the hopper. They may need tightening.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I will probably end up with the snap in powder bushings soon enough.</div></div>
The bushings are for a different measure. You will want metering <span style="font-style: italic">inserts</span>, or the micrometer adjustment.
 
#42
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

if you could acquire a used dillon 650 for slightly less than a new 550 would you? I'm a complete novice to reloading, but a neighbor wants to sell his 650 and associated equipment for what seems like a good deal. I shoot equal amounts of pistol and rifle, does the 650 preclude loading for precsion rilfe shoting?
 
#43
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

I suppose that is better than naming your daughter Gap.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Triggerhappy</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a Dillon 550b and like it so much that I named my son Dillon (seriously). I have never used the other presses mentioned but for a good progressive it is hard to beat. I would get it and spend the extra money for the strong mount and roller handle.
grin.gif
</div></div>
 
#44
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Most double charges happen when someone gets distracted and forgets to index the shell plate on a manual press. </div></div>

Always stop with the ram at the top of the stroke. If you have to unexpectedly duck and cover, pull the pins and check.
 
#45
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

I didn't get the case feeder yet, but I'll keep that in mind when I get one. I was originally planning to go get a Super Redhawk in 44 Mag until my dad made an offhanded comment about how much I bitch about loading pistol ammo, I should spend a few hundred bucks on a progressive press first.

That being said, I have the press coming, I'm still looking for the right pistol (9.5" barrels are a little hard to come by for some reason), and sometime in the next 6 months or so I hope I can get the case feeder.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: labman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if you could acquire a used dillon 650 for slightly less than a new 550 would you? I'm a complete novice to reloading, but a neighbor wants to sell his 650 and associated equipment for what seems like a good deal. I shoot equal amounts of pistol and rifle, does the 650 preclude loading for precsion rilfe shoting? </div></div>

If I could have done that, I'd be saying how I was getting a Dillon XL650 instead of a Hornady LnL AP.

As a total novice you need to get a good understanding of the single stage process step by step before you really dive into that progressive. Also, having a good single stage on the bench is hard to beat sometimes, and I still plan on loading my long range precision ammo on the single.
 
#46
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions



If I could have done that, I'd be saying how I was getting a Dillon XL650 instead of a Hornady LnL AP.

As a total novice you need to get a good understanding of the single stage process step by step before you really dive into that progressive. Also, having a good single stage on the bench is hard to beat sometimes, and I still plan on loading my long range precision ammo on the single.


[/quote]

IS the learning curve really that steep on the single v. the progressive to warrant passing up the right price on the 650 v. the 550? The seller is more than willing to go through the process on the 650 with me prior to selling.

thanks
 
#47
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

Bohem, you mentioned getting distracted and not knowing which cases were charged...check out the Hornady "Powder Cop" die. It has a rod that extends/stays to a reference point when a charged/empty case is run into that station. Also extends above reference to show double charge. AG in NC
 
#48
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

I read this...

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

After reading it, it was enough to push me to the Hornady Lock-n-Load...either way it is an excellent review and may convince you to go either way depending on what you want out of the press.

However, I cannot give an opinion based on experience yet. Give me a few months and my neighbor and I will compare b/c he has the Dillon 650. One thing to consider is that as of a few days ago MidwayUSA has the Hornady in stock. As well, with my birthday coming up this weekend Midway gave me a special discount so the press only cost me $389 shipped, compare that to the $480 the backorder at Cabellas was going to run me, you can't beat that deal with a stick.
 
#49
Re: 2 Progressive Press Questions

AG- I'll take a look at the powder checking, I'd heard it mentioned before but hadn't really looked into it.

Most of the time that I end up pouring charges back is when I'm loading match ammo with the trickle method and my girlfriend *MUST* get an answer immediately to something like "my parents invited us over for dinner on saturday, what do you think?" I forget exactly which case has which charge.

I've started closing the door and turning music on so it's much more difficult to ask questions like that.

Labman - I'd say you should get the progressive and go through the process with him several times. Don't write off getting a single stage press, even if it's a dirt cheap like a Lee (I think I hear gasps of shock) so that you can work single stage if you want to. If you end up getting into serious precision ammo, you're going to want a really good single stage eventually.

I'm keeping my RCBS Rockchucker on the bench next to the LnL when it comes in, I make no plans to remove the single stage from my equipment list. it's too flexible.
 
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