I am tring to do load development for a 300 win. Had planned to shoot the bigger bullets with it. ladder test narrowed it down to 74.5 gr of rl 22. Legth is not touching or anywhere near the lands with the 208 amaxes but 190 smks are seated snug in the lands. This thing is absolutly crazy. It will shoot the 1st two almost touching with the 208s and touching with the 190 smks and then throw the next one. Everytime? I thought it could have been mechanical. Checked everything and it is all tight. Traded scopes still the same deal. The barrel is a Rock 5r but is very light. Could it be heating after the 2nd shot? Tomorrow I am going to shoot two then let it get stone cold then come back and shoot two again and see what happens. What are you thoughts?
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2 rounds close then the 3rd 1 1/2 away
- Thread starter toddconley
- Start date
Re: 2 rounds close then the 3rd 1 1/2 away
give it 2 miniutes between shots and do a 5 shot group
give it 2 miniutes between shots and do a 5 shot group
Re: 2 rounds close then the 3rd 1 1/2 away
hey,I have always done a 5 shot group.I think it lets you know more.ye I load more and use more stuff but never cold really get the full pictuer.all so let them little nuddel barrels cool down.I havw alot of groups to shot the first two in the some place some even the first three.but the last two or last one seems to be me or the load.but when I find out what is going on its one ragged hole.try it and see what happens,tweek the loads alittle.
John
hey,I have always done a 5 shot group.I think it lets you know more.ye I load more and use more stuff but never cold really get the full pictuer.all so let them little nuddel barrels cool down.I havw alot of groups to shot the first two in the some place some even the first three.but the last two or last one seems to be me or the load.but when I find out what is going on its one ragged hole.try it and see what happens,tweek the loads alittle.
John
Re: 2 rounds close then the 3rd 1 1/2 away
shoot ten rounds. Then you will know what it will do. Jmho.
shoot ten rounds. Then you will know what it will do. Jmho.
Re: 2 rounds close then the 3rd 1 1/2 away
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1shot2kill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">give it 2 miniutes between shots and do a 5 shot group </div></div>
Do you recommend to clean the barrel in between shots/groups? If, so with what? Boresnake? What solvent? Would RimOil do the job at the field?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1shot2kill</div><div class="ubbcode-body">give it 2 miniutes between shots and do a 5 shot group </div></div>
Do you recommend to clean the barrel in between shots/groups? If, so with what? Boresnake? What solvent? Would RimOil do the job at the field?
Re: 2 rounds close then the 3rd 1 1/2 away
The rifle is trying to double group. The Amax’s need to be touching or in the lands. The SMK's about .005" off. 5 shots won’t change a thing, save your components.
When I start to develop a load in a rifle I pick a starting load with my powder, primer, bullet and seating depth. Run a ladder in .5 increments until the rifle shoots or I get a slightly sticky bolt lift. If the sticky bolt lift occurs before the rifle starts to shoot like I want, I stop. The load will be at high pressure at that point and there's no sense in going higher. Pick another powder and do it again. RL-22 seems to be a good powder in 300WM but I've had good results with I7828 as well.
The rifle is trying to double group. The Amax’s need to be touching or in the lands. The SMK's about .005" off. 5 shots won’t change a thing, save your components.
When I start to develop a load in a rifle I pick a starting load with my powder, primer, bullet and seating depth. Run a ladder in .5 increments until the rifle shoots or I get a slightly sticky bolt lift. If the sticky bolt lift occurs before the rifle starts to shoot like I want, I stop. The load will be at high pressure at that point and there's no sense in going higher. Pick another powder and do it again. RL-22 seems to be a good powder in 300WM but I've had good results with I7828 as well.
Re: 2 rounds close then the 3rd 1 1/2 away
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rifle is trying to double group. The Amax’s need to be touching or in the lands. The SMK's about .005" off. 5 shots won’t change a thing, save your components.
When I start to develop a load in a rifle I pick a starting load with my powder, primer, bullet and seating depth. Run a ladder in .5 increments until the rifle shoots or I get a slightly sticky bolt lift. If the sticky bolt lift occurs before the rifle starts to shoot like I want, I stop. The load will be at high pressure at that point and there's no sense in going higher. Pick another powder and do it again. RL-22 seems to be a good powder in 300WM but I've had good results with I7828 as well.
</div></div>
What do you mean by 'double group'? I go the same problem, how do you stop it?
BTW, I'm assuming you do 3-shot groups. Right? Do you clean your barrel in between?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rifle is trying to double group. The Amax’s need to be touching or in the lands. The SMK's about .005" off. 5 shots won’t change a thing, save your components.
When I start to develop a load in a rifle I pick a starting load with my powder, primer, bullet and seating depth. Run a ladder in .5 increments until the rifle shoots or I get a slightly sticky bolt lift. If the sticky bolt lift occurs before the rifle starts to shoot like I want, I stop. The load will be at high pressure at that point and there's no sense in going higher. Pick another powder and do it again. RL-22 seems to be a good powder in 300WM but I've had good results with I7828 as well.
</div></div>
What do you mean by 'double group'? I go the same problem, how do you stop it?
BTW, I'm assuming you do 3-shot groups. Right? Do you clean your barrel in between?
Re: 2 rounds close then the 3rd 1 1/2 away
So, the amaxes are never gonna shoot at mag length? But since I can get the 190 smks to the lands there may be a shot. But, the smks are double grouping as well? Should I ladder the smks with seating depth? This thing isnt even mine. It is killing me.
So, the amaxes are never gonna shoot at mag length? But since I can get the 190 smks to the lands there may be a shot. But, the smks are double grouping as well? Should I ladder the smks with seating depth? This thing isnt even mine. It is killing me.
Re: 2 rounds close then the 3rd 1 1/2 away
Bullit, often varying seating depth cures double grouping.
Bullit, often varying seating depth cures double grouping.
Re: 2 rounds close then the 3rd 1 1/2 away
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bullit, often varying seating depth cures double grouping. </div></div>
Makes sense, but what if you are using factory ammo?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Casey Simpson</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bullit, often varying seating depth cures double grouping. </div></div>
Makes sense, but what if you are using factory ammo?
Re: 2 rounds close then the 3rd 1 1/2 away
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could it be that you're shooting split groups?
Are you coming off the rifle between the second and third shots and/or is your cheek-weld inconsistent? </div></div>
I"m not coming off between shots, but I may be moving my head just enough to change my point of impact.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Graham</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Could it be that you're shooting split groups?
Are you coming off the rifle between the second and third shots and/or is your cheek-weld inconsistent? </div></div>
I"m not coming off between shots, but I may be moving my head just enough to change my point of impact.
Re: 2 rounds close then the 3rd 1 1/2 away
What kind of stock? Is it bedded? Pillars? Action screws and scope bases and rings torqued to spec? If all this is gtg, then I'd try giving more time before shots (let the barrel cool). Has someone else you know can shoot fired the rifle? Do you get consistently good groups with another rifle/ammo combo?
If none of the above eliminates it. Are you sitting down?
Take a good hard look at your form and position. A large percentage of shooting inaccuracy is us and we want to blame the rifle. I'd suggest going to 10 rd. groups for a time (let the rifle cool each shot) pay LOTS of attention to your form (consistency is EVERYTHING) and see what you learn. If slowing down brings things into line, speed things up and see if temp. is a factor.
John
What kind of stock? Is it bedded? Pillars? Action screws and scope bases and rings torqued to spec? If all this is gtg, then I'd try giving more time before shots (let the barrel cool). Has someone else you know can shoot fired the rifle? Do you get consistently good groups with another rifle/ammo combo?
If none of the above eliminates it. Are you sitting down?
Take a good hard look at your form and position. A large percentage of shooting inaccuracy is us and we want to blame the rifle. I'd suggest going to 10 rd. groups for a time (let the rifle cool each shot) pay LOTS of attention to your form (consistency is EVERYTHING) and see what you learn. If slowing down brings things into line, speed things up and see if temp. is a factor.
John
Re: 2 rounds close then the 3rd 1 1/2 away
I still got the original stock, the houge one. All screws torqued down by hand, no fancy tools here. I've been waiting about a min between shots, since it's a bull barrel, i thought waiting a min would be enough. But I will wait more between shots. And no, no one has shot my rifle besides me (accurately that is).
It's got to be all me, my postures, trigger pull, etc. I got lots more to learn.
Thanks for the help,
Bullitt
I still got the original stock, the houge one. All screws torqued down by hand, no fancy tools here. I've been waiting about a min between shots, since it's a bull barrel, i thought waiting a min would be enough. But I will wait more between shots. And no, no one has shot my rifle besides me (accurately that is).
It's got to be all me, my postures, trigger pull, etc. I got lots more to learn.
Thanks for the help,
Bullitt
Re: 2 rounds close then the 3rd 1 1/2 away
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BULLITT1668</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rifle is trying to double group. The Amax’s need to be touching or in the lands. The SMK's about .005" off. 5 shots won’t change a thing, save your components.
When I start to develop a load in a rifle I pick a starting load with my powder, primer, bullet and seating depth. Run a ladder in .5 increments until the rifle shoots or I get a slightly sticky bolt lift. If the sticky bolt lift occurs before the rifle starts to shoot like I want, I stop. The load will be at high pressure at that point and there's no sense in going higher. Pick another powder and do it again. RL-22 seems to be a good powder in 300WM but I've had good results with I7828 as well.
</div></div>
What do you mean by 'double group'? I go the same problem, how do you stop it?
BTW, I'm assuming you do 3-shot groups. Right? Do you clean your barrel in between? </div></div>
With environmental conditions and shooter being ruled out of the equation, double groups are those that put two in a hole or two touching and the third, forth etc out. This is an indication that the load or seating depth needs to be adjusted or both. It's possible to have two groups inside of one group. In an ideal world your groups will print as a triangle or a circle. If they're not doing that they're out of tune. This is why I use the 3 shot method when working up loads. If two are in a hole and the third is out I usually increase the powder charge until the rifle either shoots or I get pressure. Once I get a triangular shaped group I’ll adjust seating depth to fine tune the load. Granted, this is a method I use when tuning my BR rifles but, it works on all rifles so why not.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BULLITT1668</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: wnroscoe</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The rifle is trying to double group. The Amax’s need to be touching or in the lands. The SMK's about .005" off. 5 shots won’t change a thing, save your components.
When I start to develop a load in a rifle I pick a starting load with my powder, primer, bullet and seating depth. Run a ladder in .5 increments until the rifle shoots or I get a slightly sticky bolt lift. If the sticky bolt lift occurs before the rifle starts to shoot like I want, I stop. The load will be at high pressure at that point and there's no sense in going higher. Pick another powder and do it again. RL-22 seems to be a good powder in 300WM but I've had good results with I7828 as well.
</div></div>
What do you mean by 'double group'? I go the same problem, how do you stop it?
BTW, I'm assuming you do 3-shot groups. Right? Do you clean your barrel in between? </div></div>
With environmental conditions and shooter being ruled out of the equation, double groups are those that put two in a hole or two touching and the third, forth etc out. This is an indication that the load or seating depth needs to be adjusted or both. It's possible to have two groups inside of one group. In an ideal world your groups will print as a triangle or a circle. If they're not doing that they're out of tune. This is why I use the 3 shot method when working up loads. If two are in a hole and the third is out I usually increase the powder charge until the rifle either shoots or I get pressure. Once I get a triangular shaped group I’ll adjust seating depth to fine tune the load. Granted, this is a method I use when tuning my BR rifles but, it works on all rifles so why not.
Re: 2 rounds close then the 3rd 1 1/2 away
Moving your head can have a major effect, relation of eye to reticle.
Here are a couple of things no one thinks about. At 100 yds., your heartbeat can move the poi up to 1/4" or more, (2.5" at 1000 yds.), (this will sound funny)--how you hold your mouth and teeth open or closed can effect your cheek weld.
Crank your scope up to max, set up on a solid rest with a tight hold and observe. You will be surprised.
I play at 1000 yds. and have learned to fire in relation to my heartbeat, and to hold my mouth the same every time. It has made a difference.
Moving your head can have a major effect, relation of eye to reticle.
Here are a couple of things no one thinks about. At 100 yds., your heartbeat can move the poi up to 1/4" or more, (2.5" at 1000 yds.), (this will sound funny)--how you hold your mouth and teeth open or closed can effect your cheek weld.
Crank your scope up to max, set up on a solid rest with a tight hold and observe. You will be surprised.
I play at 1000 yds. and have learned to fire in relation to my heartbeat, and to hold my mouth the same every time. It has made a difference.
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