I am new to the long range shooting. I have been shooting 100 yards for a long time and finally broke down and bought a low end to you guys but the best to me, rifle. I bought a Savage PC10 and put Leopold one piece base with Leopold twist in rings. The scope is a Nikon Monarch 6x24x50 along with the harris bi-pod that swivels. I am a beginner and don't really know where to go with it. I am only looking for 500 yards in range but I want to be very precise. I have been figuring drops from Federals ballistics charts along with what my scope can to on the adjustments and they are crazy huge. I have been thinking of sighting in at 300 zero to minimize the adjustments but is this like being bottle fed to be able to adjust the scope? I want to learn to shoot accuratly within the 500 yard range. This might seem like a breeze for most but for me right now I am so confused on what to do. I want to shoot Gold Match 168 BTHP rounds that were suggested to me from a local guy that I know. If you have a setup that is similar to what I have and have any suggestions please let me know, I would appreciate the input on where to start. I don't have the money for the cosign/angle thing but I did put the rifle on some calibration equiptment for theodolites (Land Surveying) and got the vertical axis perfect to the rifles bore if leveled and perfectly projected on a vertical plane to the scope. Main thing is what should my zero be and should you ajust scope for range? I don't have a BDC or mil dot just a Nikoplex crosshair.
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Rifle Scopes 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
- Thread starter Kenny Marhoffer
- Start date
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
You'll have to see how the 168s shoot in your rifle. I've never used the ballistics data from Federal, I'm guessing that they'll get you in the vicinity of the target stand.
The consensus answer seems to be to zero at 100 and adjust your elevation for other ranges. (Yes, Your adjustments out to 500 and beyond are big, a 308 at 1000 is in the neighborhood of 350 inches)
You'll see other discussion about long range shooting that discusses that 168s aren't good for 1000 yds, but they are fine for 500.
I can't imagine that if you're going to shoot a lot that you won't eventually start reloading, but that is a whole 'nother conversation.
Browse this forum, if you take the time to read the information here (use the search function, LOTS) you will not only find a few dozen questions you didn't know to ask, you'll also find the answers, or in some cases several to choose from)
You'll have to see how the 168s shoot in your rifle. I've never used the ballistics data from Federal, I'm guessing that they'll get you in the vicinity of the target stand.
The consensus answer seems to be to zero at 100 and adjust your elevation for other ranges. (Yes, Your adjustments out to 500 and beyond are big, a 308 at 1000 is in the neighborhood of 350 inches)
You'll see other discussion about long range shooting that discusses that 168s aren't good for 1000 yds, but they are fine for 500.
I can't imagine that if you're going to shoot a lot that you won't eventually start reloading, but that is a whole 'nother conversation.
Browse this forum, if you take the time to read the information here (use the search function, LOTS) you will not only find a few dozen questions you didn't know to ask, you'll also find the answers, or in some cases several to choose from)
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
You have to run a ballistics calculator and get the MOA for each 100 yard increment (100, 200, 300, 400, 500 etc).
Go jpmballistics.com and put .45 in the box for ballistic coeff
put 168 in the box for gr
put 2600 in the box for muzzle velocity
Click CALCULATE and you get a ballistic chart showing MOA drop for each 100 yard increment. You will have to dial your scope that many moa above zero for each of those yardages you shoot at. I suggest you shoot at large targets so you won't be off the paper. Good luck!
Hope that helps.
You have to run a ballistics calculator and get the MOA for each 100 yard increment (100, 200, 300, 400, 500 etc).
Go jpmballistics.com and put .45 in the box for ballistic coeff
put 168 in the box for gr
put 2600 in the box for muzzle velocity
Click CALCULATE and you get a ballistic chart showing MOA drop for each 100 yard increment. You will have to dial your scope that many moa above zero for each of those yardages you shoot at. I suggest you shoot at large targets so you won't be off the paper. Good luck!
Hope that helps.
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
I would also add to the above (very good) suggestions that you work your way up in distance from the 100 yd zero in small increments (100 yd) until you are more confident/comfortable with your setup. That way, the adjustments will be less at each step initially. While you're at it, make sure you record very carefully exactly what elevation and windage adjustments your scope required to get on paper for each increase in distance (aka-a dope card). You can then compare this info to the values you obtained using a ballistics calculator.
If you try to go directly from 100 to 500 to start and encounter any problems getting on target, it can be pretty frustrating and waste a lot of time/ammo. When you are more familiar with your setup, you should then be able to dial up any distance out to your maximum that you have tested (and beyond) using the info you developed along the way.
BTW: sniperaviator meant www.jbmballistics.com ("b" instead of "p")
I would also add to the above (very good) suggestions that you work your way up in distance from the 100 yd zero in small increments (100 yd) until you are more confident/comfortable with your setup. That way, the adjustments will be less at each step initially. While you're at it, make sure you record very carefully exactly what elevation and windage adjustments your scope required to get on paper for each increase in distance (aka-a dope card). You can then compare this info to the values you obtained using a ballistics calculator.
If you try to go directly from 100 to 500 to start and encounter any problems getting on target, it can be pretty frustrating and waste a lot of time/ammo. When you are more familiar with your setup, you should then be able to dial up any distance out to your maximum that you have tested (and beyond) using the info you developed along the way.
BTW: sniperaviator meant www.jbmballistics.com ("b" instead of "p")
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
As stated before, there is no 1 magic accurate round for every rifle. Some people like blondes, some brunettes. The same goe for rifles. I use 175gr blackhills, I tried the new Hornady 178gr Superformance and was wishing but my rifle no likey. Try several different rounds and manufactures to solve what your rifles like. Also if your rifle is a keeper try the 175gr bthp from BlackHills or Fedral. They're good for 1000m if you ever decide to go out further. That's for factory but if you wanna get the best start handloading, then your mind will really be blown
As stated before, there is no 1 magic accurate round for every rifle. Some people like blondes, some brunettes. The same goe for rifles. I use 175gr blackhills, I tried the new Hornady 178gr Superformance and was wishing but my rifle no likey. Try several different rounds and manufactures to solve what your rifles like. Also if your rifle is a keeper try the 175gr bthp from BlackHills or Fedral. They're good for 1000m if you ever decide to go out further. That's for factory but if you wanna get the best start handloading, then your mind will really be blown
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
Should you also try to downsize the bullet to gain on not having so much drop out past 400 yards? Also, if you don't have the Mil Dots (Cross-Hairs Style?) and only have the Cross Hairs with no Mil Dots do you hold high and estimate how high you are holding for your drop or like most said in this forum do the adjustment on the Scope. I am looking for the best zero for a .308 cartridge (After find the round and manufacturer my gun likes to eat) that will eiter be like 100 Yds +4, 200 yards +5.5, 300 yards = Zero, 400 yards -15.0 and 500 yards -22.3. Something like that so that I don't have the 100 yards Zero, and 500 yards -40. What do you guys do, try to keep the numbers kinda neutral or top heavy on one side of the spectrum? OH , and thanks everyone for the replies very helpful.
Should you also try to downsize the bullet to gain on not having so much drop out past 400 yards? Also, if you don't have the Mil Dots (Cross-Hairs Style?) and only have the Cross Hairs with no Mil Dots do you hold high and estimate how high you are holding for your drop or like most said in this forum do the adjustment on the Scope. I am looking for the best zero for a .308 cartridge (After find the round and manufacturer my gun likes to eat) that will eiter be like 100 Yds +4, 200 yards +5.5, 300 yards = Zero, 400 yards -15.0 and 500 yards -22.3. Something like that so that I don't have the 100 yards Zero, and 500 yards -40. What do you guys do, try to keep the numbers kinda neutral or top heavy on one side of the spectrum? OH , and thanks everyone for the replies very helpful.
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
Are you hunting or target shooting? If you read some more of the information here you will find that most of the target/tactical shooters zero at 100 yds. You keep a dope card and dial the elevation as needed for the range you are shooting.
Ranging recticles (e.g. mildots) are useful but unnecessary for many applications, especially target shooting.
If you are trying to find a hunting zero and use holdovers for the ranges out to 500 yds that will take some work on your part to learn your rifle and sight picture.
Are you hunting or target shooting? If you read some more of the information here you will find that most of the target/tactical shooters zero at 100 yds. You keep a dope card and dial the elevation as needed for the range you are shooting.
Ranging recticles (e.g. mildots) are useful but unnecessary for many applications, especially target shooting.
If you are trying to find a hunting zero and use holdovers for the ranges out to 500 yds that will take some work on your part to learn your rifle and sight picture.
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
I am target shooting and might someday want to take it out hunting. I just want to be a good shot someday and actually know what to do in order to take a shot instead of guessing or doing it the wrong way. This is a science and a art of skill, proper procedures and techniques will be a great benefit for the road I am headed down. I have been hunting for a long time and am tired of having the gun sighted in at 100 yards and the deer is at 250 and just holding over his back and letting it go. Yeah, I can guess pretty good on my drop by practice from the rifle before the hunting season, but I want to know that my shot is going to be on target. I just wanted to see what others are doing and if I screwed myself on buying a scope with just a crosshair and not the mildot type recticle.
I took the ballistics of the round from Federal just to see what I had to do by adjusting scope for different ranges for a certain zero. Is it true that a 1/8 Moa scope at 100 yards is,
1/4 @ 200, 3/8 @ 300, 1/2" @ 400, 5/8" @ 500 and 3/4" @ 600?
Ballistics on the round,
(http://www.ultimatesniper.com/Docs/32.PDF <-Check this out
(only close I know) say that it will drop with a zero at 300 yards 38.1 inches at 500 yards. That means I need to adjust up 43 clicks to be as close to poi I can adjust. (there are eight 5/8" of an inch in 5 inches, to make it to 35inches of adjustment I need seven 5 inch sets of 5/8" of an inch that equal 35 clicks, then there are 3.1 inches to go and there are eight 5/8" of and inch in 3.1 inches, for a total of 43 5/8" of adjustment to be on at 500 yards. The adjustment on the scope won't hit it exactly but it is as close as it will get with 43 clicks (missing 1/8th of an inch). Is this kinda like what you need to be able to calculate and try in order to find out what Real world application actually occurs with the rifle then record what it really needs to be in a dope book for that round.
If this is retared crap just let me know and if you have something that will point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it. I am a Land Surveyor and take this precision, accuracy and calculating out there sometimes to understand it.
I am target shooting and might someday want to take it out hunting. I just want to be a good shot someday and actually know what to do in order to take a shot instead of guessing or doing it the wrong way. This is a science and a art of skill, proper procedures and techniques will be a great benefit for the road I am headed down. I have been hunting for a long time and am tired of having the gun sighted in at 100 yards and the deer is at 250 and just holding over his back and letting it go. Yeah, I can guess pretty good on my drop by practice from the rifle before the hunting season, but I want to know that my shot is going to be on target. I just wanted to see what others are doing and if I screwed myself on buying a scope with just a crosshair and not the mildot type recticle.
I took the ballistics of the round from Federal just to see what I had to do by adjusting scope for different ranges for a certain zero. Is it true that a 1/8 Moa scope at 100 yards is,
1/4 @ 200, 3/8 @ 300, 1/2" @ 400, 5/8" @ 500 and 3/4" @ 600?
Ballistics on the round,
(http://www.ultimatesniper.com/Docs/32.PDF <-Check this out
(only close I know) say that it will drop with a zero at 300 yards 38.1 inches at 500 yards. That means I need to adjust up 43 clicks to be as close to poi I can adjust. (there are eight 5/8" of an inch in 5 inches, to make it to 35inches of adjustment I need seven 5 inch sets of 5/8" of an inch that equal 35 clicks, then there are 3.1 inches to go and there are eight 5/8" of and inch in 3.1 inches, for a total of 43 5/8" of adjustment to be on at 500 yards. The adjustment on the scope won't hit it exactly but it is as close as it will get with 43 clicks (missing 1/8th of an inch). Is this kinda like what you need to be able to calculate and try in order to find out what Real world application actually occurs with the rifle then record what it really needs to be in a dope book for that round.
If this is retared crap just let me know and if you have something that will point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it. I am a Land Surveyor and take this precision, accuracy and calculating out there sometimes to understand it.
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
Using inches as listed in your drop table, I estimate that you'd need ~58 clicks up for a 38.1" drop at 500 yd with a 300 yd zero. One MOA subtends an arc of 1.0472" at 100 yd. Assuming your elevation clicks are exactly 1/8 MOA (0.131" change in POI) at 100 yd, then one click subtends an arc of .655" at 500 yd. One click should move your POI .655" at 500 yd. So, 38.1/.655 = 58 (58.2) clicks.
By your method, seven sets of (<span style="text-decoration: underline">8</span> x 5/8") in 35" = 56 clicks. Plus, 3.1"/5" sets of (8 x 5/8") = 5 clicks. For a sum total of 61 clicks. Because one MOA subtends 1.0472" at 100 yd, or 5.236" at 500 yd, this number is slightly high. 61 clicks x 1 MOA/1.0472" = 58.3 clicks.
However, both of these approaches are needlessly complicated. For starters, because 1 MOA subtends slightly more than 1" at 100 yd (1.0472") and so on, the greater the range, the farther the POI will be off by your "set" approach.
Second, you don't need to do all the conversion, grouping into sets, converting to inches, etc. Because your scope uses 1/8 MOA clicks, it would be much more useful for you to use a drop table calculated in MOA. Then you just divide the calculated drop in MOA by 8 to give you the elevation adjustment in clicks.
For example, the 38.1" in your table would show up in an MOA-based table as a drop of 7.3 MOA. 7.3 MOA x 8 clicks/MOA = 58.4 clicks, very close (less than one click difference) to the calculated numbers above. You don't need to use inches, your zero range, or the total range to calculate anything. It's already been taken into account when you set up your dope card. All you need to know is the drop in MOA for which you have to adjust the elevation, and the adjustment value for your elevation turret. Hope that helps.
Also, check the Optics FAQ'S section for a ton of useful info regarding these types of questions. For example:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=159397&page=1
Using inches as listed in your drop table, I estimate that you'd need ~58 clicks up for a 38.1" drop at 500 yd with a 300 yd zero. One MOA subtends an arc of 1.0472" at 100 yd. Assuming your elevation clicks are exactly 1/8 MOA (0.131" change in POI) at 100 yd, then one click subtends an arc of .655" at 500 yd. One click should move your POI .655" at 500 yd. So, 38.1/.655 = 58 (58.2) clicks.
By your method, seven sets of (<span style="text-decoration: underline">8</span> x 5/8") in 35" = 56 clicks. Plus, 3.1"/5" sets of (8 x 5/8") = 5 clicks. For a sum total of 61 clicks. Because one MOA subtends 1.0472" at 100 yd, or 5.236" at 500 yd, this number is slightly high. 61 clicks x 1 MOA/1.0472" = 58.3 clicks.
However, both of these approaches are needlessly complicated. For starters, because 1 MOA subtends slightly more than 1" at 100 yd (1.0472") and so on, the greater the range, the farther the POI will be off by your "set" approach.
Second, you don't need to do all the conversion, grouping into sets, converting to inches, etc. Because your scope uses 1/8 MOA clicks, it would be much more useful for you to use a drop table calculated in MOA. Then you just divide the calculated drop in MOA by 8 to give you the elevation adjustment in clicks.
For example, the 38.1" in your table would show up in an MOA-based table as a drop of 7.3 MOA. 7.3 MOA x 8 clicks/MOA = 58.4 clicks, very close (less than one click difference) to the calculated numbers above. You don't need to use inches, your zero range, or the total range to calculate anything. It's already been taken into account when you set up your dope card. All you need to know is the drop in MOA for which you have to adjust the elevation, and the adjustment value for your elevation turret. Hope that helps.
Also, check the Optics FAQ'S section for a ton of useful info regarding these types of questions. For example:
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=159397&page=1
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
This all sounds very complicated...Shooting a rifle at 500 is a very simple process.
As a surveyor, you have a tendency to deeply analyze things. That is a good ability, but what I am saying is that actually shooting your rifle is going to be a lot simpler than thinking about it.
Take your rifle to the range and shoot at a big piece of paper at 100 yards. Sight it in dead center at 100 yds and see where the turret marks line up. If the marks are not clear enough, put a dot on the turret and one on the scope body with your wife's nail polish...(GF whatever)...that will be your 100 yard zero point that you can always refer to.
From that point...all longer ranges will be "up"... count the clicks...it's that simple.
TC
This all sounds very complicated...Shooting a rifle at 500 is a very simple process.
As a surveyor, you have a tendency to deeply analyze things. That is a good ability, but what I am saying is that actually shooting your rifle is going to be a lot simpler than thinking about it.
Take your rifle to the range and shoot at a big piece of paper at 100 yards. Sight it in dead center at 100 yds and see where the turret marks line up. If the marks are not clear enough, put a dot on the turret and one on the scope body with your wife's nail polish...(GF whatever)...that will be your 100 yard zero point that you can always refer to.
From that point...all longer ranges will be "up"... count the clicks...it's that simple.
TC
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This all sounds very complicated...Shooting a rifle at 500 is a very simple process. </div></div>
I agree with that. From 500 yards in, your 6-24x50 monarch (which is the same scope i have) is within range. With these ranges you will simply need to calc the number of clicks needed which some of the guys have touched on.
Where this gets a little more complicated is shooting 800+ yards. Because your Nikon is a 1/8 MOA and 6-24, you only have 30 MOA internal adjustments tops. For shots passed 800 yards you would need to get a 15 or 20 MOA picatinnay rail, other wise you should be fine.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Top Cat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">This all sounds very complicated...Shooting a rifle at 500 is a very simple process. </div></div>
I agree with that. From 500 yards in, your 6-24x50 monarch (which is the same scope i have) is within range. With these ranges you will simply need to calc the number of clicks needed which some of the guys have touched on.
Where this gets a little more complicated is shooting 800+ yards. Because your Nikon is a 1/8 MOA and 6-24, you only have 30 MOA internal adjustments tops. For shots passed 800 yards you would need to get a 15 or 20 MOA picatinnay rail, other wise you should be fine.
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it true that a 1/8 Moa scope at 100 yards is,
1/4 @ 200, 3/8 @ 300, 1/2" @ 400, 5/8" @ 500 and 3/4" @ 600?
</div></div>
The 1/8, or 8 clicks = 1" is only good for 100yrds, as you back up it multiplies. 8 clicks = 2"@200yrds, 8 clicks = 5"@500yrds. If your turrets allow for rezeroing, 0 at 100yrds, and just record the drop when you increase your shooting distance. Follow Fed GMM data, should get you close.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">it true that a 1/8 Moa scope at 100 yards is,
1/4 @ 200, 3/8 @ 300, 1/2" @ 400, 5/8" @ 500 and 3/4" @ 600?
</div></div>
The 1/8, or 8 clicks = 1" is only good for 100yrds, as you back up it multiplies. 8 clicks = 2"@200yrds, 8 clicks = 5"@500yrds. If your turrets allow for rezeroing, 0 at 100yrds, and just record the drop when you increase your shooting distance. Follow Fed GMM data, should get you close.
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Land Surveyor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it true that a 1/8 Moa scope at 100 yards is,
1/4 @ 200, 3/8 @ 300, 1/2" @ 400, 5/8" @ 500 and 3/4" @ 600? </div></div>
Did you get an answer to this question?
Basically that is correct. As a surveyor you should have an understanding of the concept of angular measurement. MOA is an angular measurement, so it's a constant at any distance.
So...1/8 MOA is 1/8 of a "minute", or roughly 1/8" at 100yds. So at 200yds it would be roughly 1/4". At 400yds - A "minute" at 400yds is roughly 4", so 1/8 of that "minute" is 1/2".
So if you click your scope once., it will move the bullet 1/8" at 100yds and 1/2" at 400yds, 1" at 800yds, etc...
TC
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Land Surveyor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Is it true that a 1/8 Moa scope at 100 yards is,
1/4 @ 200, 3/8 @ 300, 1/2" @ 400, 5/8" @ 500 and 3/4" @ 600? </div></div>
Did you get an answer to this question?
Basically that is correct. As a surveyor you should have an understanding of the concept of angular measurement. MOA is an angular measurement, so it's a constant at any distance.
So...1/8 MOA is 1/8 of a "minute", or roughly 1/8" at 100yds. So at 200yds it would be roughly 1/4". At 400yds - A "minute" at 400yds is roughly 4", so 1/8 of that "minute" is 1/2".
So if you click your scope once., it will move the bullet 1/8" at 100yds and 1/2" at 400yds, 1" at 800yds, etc...
TC
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
Here is a chart i recently created for my .308 with a 6-24 monarch.
If anyone sees a mistake please let me know.
1/8 MOA (Constant)
8 clicks = inch at 100 yds
4 clicks = inch at 200 yds
2.67 clicks = inch at 300 yds
2 clicks = inch at 400 yds
1.6 clicks = inch at 500 yds
1.33 clicks = inch at 600 yds
1.14 clicks = inch at 700 yds
1 click = inch at 800 yds
.308 Short – Trajectory (165 Grain Ballistic Tip)
100 yds = 0.0 inch drop
200 yds = 4 inch drop
300 yds = 14.75 inch drop
400 yds = 33 inch drop
500 yds = 60.5 inch drop
600 yds = 99 inch drop
700 yds = 151 inch drop
800 yds = 216 inch drop
1/8 MOA + .308 Short – Trajectory (165 Grain Ballistic Tip)
100 yds = 0 clicks
200 yds = 16 clicks
300 yds = 39 clicks
400 yds = 66 clicks
500 yds = 97 clicks
600 yds = 132 clicks
700 yds = 172 clicks
800 yds = 216 clicks
So here we can see that an 800 yard shot would barely be in range for my scope that also has 30 MOA internal adjustments. 216/8 = 27 MOA adjustment on the up to make a 800 yard shot.
Here is a chart i recently created for my .308 with a 6-24 monarch.
If anyone sees a mistake please let me know.
1/8 MOA (Constant)
8 clicks = inch at 100 yds
4 clicks = inch at 200 yds
2.67 clicks = inch at 300 yds
2 clicks = inch at 400 yds
1.6 clicks = inch at 500 yds
1.33 clicks = inch at 600 yds
1.14 clicks = inch at 700 yds
1 click = inch at 800 yds
.308 Short – Trajectory (165 Grain Ballistic Tip)
100 yds = 0.0 inch drop
200 yds = 4 inch drop
300 yds = 14.75 inch drop
400 yds = 33 inch drop
500 yds = 60.5 inch drop
600 yds = 99 inch drop
700 yds = 151 inch drop
800 yds = 216 inch drop
1/8 MOA + .308 Short – Trajectory (165 Grain Ballistic Tip)
100 yds = 0 clicks
200 yds = 16 clicks
300 yds = 39 clicks
400 yds = 66 clicks
500 yds = 97 clicks
600 yds = 132 clicks
700 yds = 172 clicks
800 yds = 216 clicks
So here we can see that an 800 yard shot would barely be in range for my scope that also has 30 MOA internal adjustments. 216/8 = 27 MOA adjustment on the up to make a 800 yard shot.
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
[7.3 x 8] is not complicated. Plus you can have this info in hand as a starting point (and for comparison) when you actually put rounds into the big piece of paper at the range as you suggested.
[7.3 x 8] is not complicated. Plus you can have this info in hand as a starting point (and for comparison) when you actually put rounds into the big piece of paper at the range as you suggested.
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
Your being offered lots of good advice. Do yourself a favor and get of copy of the "PointBlank" ballistics freeware. Here's the link - Point Blank
I shoot a Savage 10FLCP-K and it shoots the Hornady 168gr A-Max like a laser. I hand load, but Hornady's 168gr A-Max Match load also performs well.
Have fun
Your being offered lots of good advice. Do yourself a favor and get of copy of the "PointBlank" ballistics freeware. Here's the link - Point Blank
I shoot a Savage 10FLCP-K and it shoots the Hornady 168gr A-Max like a laser. I hand load, but Hornady's 168gr A-Max Match load also performs well.
Have fun
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
Thanks for all of the information, I am very glad that I came to this site and ran into all of you. Couple of new questions that I came up with last night. I have a 1-12 twist barrel and was wondering if (1) If the 168 grain bullet is a good weight for that twist or should I try another weight? (2) What is the best stability in weight of round for that twist, if any personal experience or studies done? (3) Should I go to another weight of round (Say Smaller) to gain on drop of the projection of the bullets path to limit the amount of adjustment on scope? (4) How many rounds did you guys do when you lapped in or broke in your barrel, I am on round 6 after about an hour of time and looking to do fifty. I found the process I am using on Savage Arms website.
Thanks for all of the information, I am very glad that I came to this site and ran into all of you. Couple of new questions that I came up with last night. I have a 1-12 twist barrel and was wondering if (1) If the 168 grain bullet is a good weight for that twist or should I try another weight? (2) What is the best stability in weight of round for that twist, if any personal experience or studies done? (3) Should I go to another weight of round (Say Smaller) to gain on drop of the projection of the bullets path to limit the amount of adjustment on scope? (4) How many rounds did you guys do when you lapped in or broke in your barrel, I am on round 6 after about an hour of time and looking to do fifty. I found the process I am using on Savage Arms website.
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
my LTR has a 1 in 12 20" barrel and prefers 165g over 150s (from handloading tests)
I just got some 175 Federal Match in yesterday, anxious to see how they group
just got to shoot different stuff and see how it performs in your rifle..
my LTR has a 1 in 12 20" barrel and prefers 165g over 150s (from handloading tests)
I just got some 175 Federal Match in yesterday, anxious to see how they group
just got to shoot different stuff and see how it performs in your rifle..
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
if you handload...you can get custom etched elevation knobs form a few venders!
or make it simple for field work and get yourself a good range finder and a Leupold M3 3.5-10 and use the appropiate cam...range---move to proper range mark---and fire...
or get some sort of an MLR reticle...or like a Falcon Menace with a M16 rticle and get familar with the correct spots for your yardages
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">Deer 17" average brisket...and the M3 was made for torso shooting out to 1k... IT is in no way surgical___but dead is dead when it comes to hunting...</span></span>
if you handload...you can get custom etched elevation knobs form a few venders!
or make it simple for field work and get yourself a good range finder and a Leupold M3 3.5-10 and use the appropiate cam...range---move to proper range mark---and fire...
or get some sort of an MLR reticle...or like a Falcon Menace with a M16 rticle and get familar with the correct spots for your yardages
<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="color: #FF0000">Deer 17" average brisket...and the M3 was made for torso shooting out to 1k... IT is in no way surgical___but dead is dead when it comes to hunting...</span></span>
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
You should have a 1/10 twist barrel on your Savage, but either way, the 168gr or 175gr will be fine at 500 yards. Try them both and see which one your rifle shoots best.
TC
You should have a 1/10 twist barrel on your Savage, but either way, the 168gr or 175gr will be fine at 500 yards. Try them both and see which one your rifle shoots best.
TC
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Land Surveyor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all of the information, I am very glad that I came to this site and ran into all of you. Couple of new questions that I came up with last night. I have a 1-12 twist barrel and was wondering if (1) If the 168 grain bullet is a good weight for that twist or should I try another weight? (2) What is the best stability in weight of round for that twist, if any personal experience or studies done? (3) Should I go to another weight of round (Say Smaller) to gain on drop of the projection of the bullets path to limit the amount of adjustment on scope? </div></div>
This is a question that has crawled over from the 5.56 world. Shooting a 5.56 a 1:12/1:9/1:7 makes a lot of difference. Shooting very high velocity 55gr varmit rounds in a 1:9 twist barrel that was designed to stabilize 62 gr military bullets can make a fragile 55 disintegrate.
There is a calculation for ideal twist for a given bullet weight/MV, but in a .308 it is pretty much something else to fret about that makes no measurable difference to 99% of the shooters in the world. If you were ordering a barrel for a custom build and you knew you were going to be shooting a particular round that theoretically got maximum stabilization with a 1:11.25 the get it, but till then, don't worry about it, your barrel will do fine with 168s.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Land Surveyor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all of the information, I am very glad that I came to this site and ran into all of you. Couple of new questions that I came up with last night. I have a 1-12 twist barrel and was wondering if (1) If the 168 grain bullet is a good weight for that twist or should I try another weight? (2) What is the best stability in weight of round for that twist, if any personal experience or studies done? (3) Should I go to another weight of round (Say Smaller) to gain on drop of the projection of the bullets path to limit the amount of adjustment on scope? </div></div>
This is a question that has crawled over from the 5.56 world. Shooting a 5.56 a 1:12/1:9/1:7 makes a lot of difference. Shooting very high velocity 55gr varmit rounds in a 1:9 twist barrel that was designed to stabilize 62 gr military bullets can make a fragile 55 disintegrate.
There is a calculation for ideal twist for a given bullet weight/MV, but in a .308 it is pretty much something else to fret about that makes no measurable difference to 99% of the shooters in the world. If you were ordering a barrel for a custom build and you knew you were going to be shooting a particular round that theoretically got maximum stabilization with a 1:11.25 the get it, but till then, don't worry about it, your barrel will do fine with 168s.
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Land Surveyor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all of the information, I am very glad that I came to this site and ran into all of you. Couple of new questions that I came up with last night. I have a 1-12 twist barrel and was wondering if (1) If the 168 grain bullet is a good weight for that twist or should I try another weight? (2) What is the best stability in weight of round for that twist, if any personal experience or studies done? (3) Should I go to another weight of round (Say Smaller) to gain on drop of the projection of the bullets path to limit the amount of adjustment on scope? (4) How many rounds did you guys do when you lapped in or broke in your barrel, I am on round 6 after about an hour of time and looking to do fifty. I found the process I am using on Savage Arms website. </div></div>
A bunch of us here have figured out the barrel break-in voodoo. The answer is simple. Just shoot the f- ing thing. Break in is a waste of ammo, time and barrel life that will offer you absolutely zero noticeable difference in your rifles accuracy.
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<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Land Surveyor</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all of the information, I am very glad that I came to this site and ran into all of you. Couple of new questions that I came up with last night. I have a 1-12 twist barrel and was wondering if (1) If the 168 grain bullet is a good weight for that twist or should I try another weight? (2) What is the best stability in weight of round for that twist, if any personal experience or studies done? (3) Should I go to another weight of round (Say Smaller) to gain on drop of the projection of the bullets path to limit the amount of adjustment on scope? (4) How many rounds did you guys do when you lapped in or broke in your barrel, I am on round 6 after about an hour of time and looking to do fifty. I found the process I am using on Savage Arms website. </div></div>
A bunch of us here have figured out the barrel break-in voodoo. The answer is simple. Just shoot the f- ing thing. Break in is a waste of ammo, time and barrel life that will offer you absolutely zero noticeable difference in your rifles accuracy.
41
Re: 20" Barrel, FGM168bthp Suggestions pls
From a 308, the 168 is usually stable to about 800 yards, maybe 900yds depending on altitude.
The 175gr generally does better after 600 yds, but inside that they are the same. I have a lot of 168gr bullets on hand and they shoot well, so if I am only shooting a match that has a max of 600 yd, that's what I'll use.
TC
From a 308, the 168 is usually stable to about 800 yards, maybe 900yds depending on altitude.
The 175gr generally does better after 600 yds, but inside that they are the same. I have a lot of 168gr bullets on hand and they shoot well, so if I am only shooting a match that has a max of 600 yd, that's what I'll use.
TC
