20 Cal Long Range?

[maverickasu]

So with so many of the comp shooters going to smaller calibres, I keep wondering about doing something crazy as an experiment. Hear me out this is an experiment, not saying the end all be all, but I just want to see what yall think. I know I'm going to get made fun of for going tiny but I'm a varmint hunter at heart and this round is just SO underrated haha

I LOVE the .204 ruger, but the BC on its bullets just suck, they push 4000+ fps and STILL get really good barrel life (3k+ rounds, and the plus is normal from what I've found)

So... if somebody made a long skinny VLD style 20 cal with a really good BC (for calibre) would it not be a GREAT? Berger has a 55 grain with a .381... and I'm seeing reports of speeds of 3400ish, what about like a 62ish grainer? Maybe a 70? Wondering what BC of something like that would be in the real world

I mean you can make the pill heavy enough that you slow it down to 3000-3100 so it is comp legal. Going to have to tweak you twist rate for sure but that is fine. Might have to tweak mag so you can seat things farther out... and probably free bore too... But that's just planning

I'm thinking you could moderate load for it and its GOING to make 3k... and then sense its a moderate load you have top end speed and a solid BC with MUCH more barrel life than other high speed rounds (looking at you 6 dashers types)

Also because it is even LESS recoil than a 6mm you could then start lightening up your comp rigs so you can run them around easier and still have the benefits you get with heavy rigs... Say top out at 15 lbs with scope instead of 20+...

People are going to say you'll get your @$$ kicked in the wind, but my experience with .204 is it bucks wind MUCH better than people expect. Now the typical speed of the round may be why this is... But I think it will do better than most think.

And personally I would want to put a gain twist barrel on it, that way it would hopefully shoot the "regular" .204 rounds decent too and would be an awesome varmint gun.


I'll lay it out one last way... Compared to .308 and .224 Valk

If I told you I had had a round that had a .5+ G1 BC, around 185 Juggernaut numbers, or 88 Grain ELD-m (I have no way to verify, this it is a guess)

3050 FPS muzzle velocity (375 FPS faster than stated Valk numbers and 450 FPS faster than 308, yes I realise you can get them moving a bit faster reloading but not THAT fast)

Virtually no felt recoil with a SIGNIFICANTLY lighter gun than comp rigs on the above platforms

3k+ round barrel life...

Would you be interested?

 

[Sheldon N]

Even if you got the bullet and ballistics lined up, there would probably not be enough energy on target to see hits or misses, especially on larger plates at 700-800 yards which don't usually have flashers.

The 22BR and 22 Dasher are already walking this fine line of not enough energy on target.

 

[b6graham]

Even if you got the bullet and ballistics lined up, there would probably not be enough energy on target to see hits or misses, especially on larger plates at 700-800 yards which don't usually have flashers.

The 22BR and 22 Dasher are already walking this fine line of not enough energy on target.

sheldon is right.

you gotta step up to the 95gr at 3150ish to beat a 105 at 3000 in 224. which is doable from the full length cases

 

[RTH1800]

I like my 20/250 9 twist with the 55 grain Berger.
I’m not sure if there is much room to move up from there but always interested in a new 20 caliber project.
I understand that pushing the 55’s hard in the .250 case might not be feasible. Some say as the bore roughens you get blowups. So far so good.

 

[Ranger188]

Their comes a point were you can't get enough bullet in a case.
I think 22 cal is about the limit. To get the B.C. you would need in a 20 cal
it would have to be very long and problems with freebore and single feeding
would come into play.
Plus what others have said about hit's on steel at long distances.
The Hornady 75g 22 cal is .467 and can be pushed to 3500+ so no need to add another
heavy for caliber bullet,(20 cal.) that won't catch on. The 204 is a good 400 and in varmint round
lets keep it that way.

 

[Troy G]

Berger has discontinued the Berger 55gr 20 cal bullet. Don Unmussig makes some heavy high BC 20 cal bullets hit don't know what jackets he uses or how the bullets shoot. Just repeating what I have read.

 

[RTH1800]

I had trouble getting in touch with Don. Never actually reached him.
Somehow I am not troubled by Berger discontinuing the 55 grain 20 cal bullet. ?

 

[acudaowner]

well its not a 22 but could be fun

just need a little more for longer range maybe better shaped ammo

 

[Matt_3479]

I like the idea where your going but don’t think it’s worth the chase. In my eyes, to stabilize a 62-70gr bullet in a 20 cal you would need a twist rate not yet being made. You would also need to running a full length case to make the numbers beat a 22-250 with a 75-88gr bullet. For pure shooting purpose or long range hunting, the 22-250 AI, 22x47 and 22 creed are tough to beat!

I love a 20 cal! 204 was my favourite varmint rifle until my 20 tactical! Can’t seem to find a 22 cal I prefer. Might not have the bc’s as the 22 but damn is it a fun little gun! Would like to do up a 22 creed to play with.

 

[RTH1800]

I like the idea where your going but don’t think it’s worth the chase. In my eyes, to stabilize a 62-70gr bullet in a 20 cal you would need a twist rate not yet being made. You would also need to running a full length case to make the numbers beat a 22-250 with a 75-88gr bullet. For pure shooting purpose or long range hunting, the 22-250 AI, 22x47 and 22 creed are tough to beat!

I love a 20 cal! 204 was my favourite varmint rifle until my 20 tactical! Can’t seem to find a 22 cal I prefer. Might not have the bc’s as the 22 but damn is it a fun little gun! Would like to do up a 22 creed to play with.

Matt,
I agree with you fully except on the 20 TAC.
I find it identical to the .204.
What differences do you find?
RTH

 

[Ranger188]

RTH, as long as it's not a 25 cal.

 

[Supersubes]

I think the sweet spot for the 20’s is perfect right where they’re typically used, and that’s with varmints weight bullets. Better BC that the 22’s of the same weight, and faster.

Since 20 cal barrels are hard to find, here’s a little PSA on Krieger. They’ve been turning out custom blank orders for me in great time. I ordered a custom 20 cal blank in late January, which is shipping today. Good stuff!

 

[Matt_3479]

Matt,
I agree with you fully except on the 20 TAC.
I find it identical to the .204.
What differences do you find?
RTH

Ballistically it is identical, if anything it’s a touch slower. I’ve owned 3 204’s now and all shoot great and just fun to shoot. The 20 tac kind of fell into my lap. The gun is just mind blowingly accurate. Better case length to utilize magazine with the heavier bullets allowing same speeds as 204. Just a nicer looking round. Not necessarily better, better brass but the round isn’t necessarily better. I just prefer it so far. More accurate rifle, much better brass, better looking cartridge, just as much fun to shoot

 

[RTH1800]

Understand, thanks.
My expirence is similar.
Have had several .204’s. All with Baer barrels. Amazing.
Have one 20Tac. Borden action, GreTan build with 26” MTU barrel. Stunning accurate every one of them.

 

[steve123]

Mav, this is a fun idea but?!

Seeing where on the steel you hit or where you miss at the farther distances would be one problem.

Another might be barrel heating (longer strings) and throat erosion with a longer higher BC bullet in a 20 bore, and maybe diligent cleaning required, and maintaining of throats, copper build, carbon fouling, etc.

I tend to go overboard with my projects. I built a 20x47L for the 55's/3830 fps, which went great until about 300 rounds when bullets weren't staying together well. It actually started happening when I was shooting at 1000Y. Very fortunately, 40 Vmax works at 4100 fps, heck I'd be totally out for all the $ I have into the project - custom dies, etc, if the 40's didn't work. Problem is they peter out fast farther out.

The trend I see is that the longer a bullet is, the more sensitive to twist rate and velocity it becomes, Research 280N with 180 eldm, 6.5's with 150 smk, 223 with 90's, etc. There's a fine line as to what works and what doesn't.

Eh, try it and report back, as long as it doesn't cost me $ I'm all in!

Those 88's fly well in my 223AI, that's as close as I think it gets to what you are after. 24.8 grains of Varget gets me 2814 fps. Those 88's are inconsistent in weight, bearing surface length, etc, they could use some sorting which I haven't been able to talk myself into, I just live with the flyer's.

 

[264win]

I agree that the 20cal is underrated. Not sure it has any practical application for lr steel comps, but it can be accurate well beyond typical 4-500yd “max”.
A buddy and I have shot his 9 twist 204 with 39 g sierras at 750 several times. It is still stable and surprisingly accurate.

 

[RTH1800]

I shoot the .204 with 32 grain v Max to 600 meters with surprisingly good result.

 

[steve123]

Same here, but in 5mmFBI, which is a version of 20-221AI. Only 3735 fps in a 21" 11 twist, could push it faster but.... I often contemplate if this is my favorite cartridge! Great for messing around on steel. Half the reason I got it was playing in the wind, the other was I'm hoping for 7000 rounds or so barrel life since I usually only fire a 5 round mag full at a time. Less noise, less rifle upset, less barrel heating, less throat erosion, and cheaper to shoot.