20 inch barrel at long range?

[digger9523]

Hi all,

I've got a 24 inch barrel on my AW (.308), been thinking about putting a 20 inch fluted on to shorten it when i have a can fitted.

How does a 20 inch barrel do at longer range? Mostly I'll be deer hunting with it, hence the desire for a reduced length, but i will enter a few competition shoots where 1000 yard shots are inevitable. Will it cut the cheese?

Your thoughts on a postcard to this thread please

 

[Lowlight]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

Get the right one and it will do anything your 24" can...

What is your MV currently ?

I have a 20" bbl on my AX, I get 2650fps out of it with factory 175gr SMKs, so there is nothing you can't with that... hand load and I bet I can do better on that number.

Besides, if you want it for Deer hunting how far away do you plan on hitting your deer, on average, because even a slow 20" is pretty solid out to 800 yards.

Plus the beauty of the AW is, change the barrel back when you want to shoot a 1k competition... takes all of what, 7 minutes to swap a barrel.

 

[digger9523]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

2820 with the 24 incher.

Most of my deer are shot up to and below 250, but of the 100 or so i shoot a year the vast majority will have been really close, more likely between 30 and 150. Some even closer, 5 yards on a couple of occasions, depending on available cover during the stalk (that's my thing, get in close!) but I've had them in Scotland up to 500, not exactly Long range hunting, but about as long as it gets in the UK.

It's for the 3 or 4 competitions a year that i was wondering about really, but like you say, i could look into barrel swapping.

 

[allghilliedup04]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

20 in can go past 1000 no problem if you know what your doing. shorter barrel = stiffer barrel (assuming same contour) which means less barrel harmonics which means more consistant which means more accurate. The loss of MV in the 4 inches of barrel is minimal.

That being said twist rate and bullet weight can make a difference. 20 in is best with a 1 in 10 for shooting 175 bullets. higher grains with good BCs means more accurate (less wind drift) at extended ranges

 

[Topstrap]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

That 20 incher would still be 5 more that what me and son presently use and we have no problems to 1000 yards. Only a few more clicks needed to get you where you want to go over what you have now. Just think how much lighter and easier to use it'll be. Go for it....

Topstrap

 

[ashland]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

Would a higher altitude give you a faster velocity? I'm at about 50' ASL. If I shot at higher elevations, would my MV be faster?

 

[stockdoc]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

As an FYI, look at the rigs competitors are using at tac matches where 1k shots are common. Not many 20" barrels there, and for a reason. In our tac matches there is NO ONE using a 20" barrel. They may come out once or twice with one but not much more after that! YMMV

Higher altitudes wont give you higher MV but your bullet will have better BC in the thinner air.

 

[Griffin4590]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

I own a 20" barrel gun for a dual purpose hunting and long range shooting. I wouldn't trade it for anything. If you are trying to do both with one gun its the way to go.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: allghilliedup04</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> shorter barrel = stiffer barrel (assuming same contour) which means less barrel harmonics which means more consistant which means more accurate. The loss of MV in the 4 inches of barrel is minimal.

</div></div>

Less barrel harmonics, huh......

So, if we apply some logic to this, um, revelation, then why stop at 20 inches?

Shouldn't we just lop 'em all off at 16" to make the most accurate rifle possible?

Why not forego rifles altogether and just shoot 14" or 15" handguns?

Jeezus..........

 

[adam1122]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

Just go to IBM ballistics calculator and it will tell you pretty close to what you are looking for. I don't own the program so I don't know if you can pout in custom loads but all standard amm selections are on it.

20 inches will go way past 1000. All comes down to ammo selection, the barrel, optic and most importantly the shooter.

Good luck man.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

It depends solely on your MV as to the performance of a 20" barrel.

I have a 20" factory barrel here that only gets about 2450fps to 2475fps which is not going to work to 1000 yards. So you have to get a barrel up to the task.

just because success can be had with some 20" barrels doesn't mean it translates to all 20" barrels. You have to have a good one, tight bore preferred, and you have to have a muzzle velocity of at least over 2600fps with a 175gr SMK for any kind of sustained success at 1000 yards.

It's not the length as much as the muzzle velocity. If you are crossing under 1150fps you're not gonna see as much success as if you were above 1200fps, that is the deciding factor.

The numbers tell the tale.

 

[Kevlars]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

To build off of what LL said .. I also have a 20" barrel and I get 2683 MV with 175gr SMK. The proper barrel and chamber is key...

-K

 

[allghilliedup04]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: allghilliedup04</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> shorter barrel = stiffer barrel (assuming same contour) which means less barrel harmonics which means more consistant which means more accurate. The loss of MV in the 4 inches of barrel is minimal.

</div></div>

Less barrel harmonics, huh......

So, if we apply some logic to this, um, revelation, then why stop at 20 inches?

Shouldn't we just lop 'em all off at 16" to make the most accurate rifle possible?

Why not forego rifles altogether and just shoot 14" or 15" handguns?



Jeezus.......... </div></div>

Well smart ass first off you need length but 20" is a good cut off point because you don't gain much by going past it for the benifit of shorter barrel. Still find me incorrect? Argue your point with Todd hodnett if you still think I'm stupid. He'll point you in the right direction.

 

[Jmilera]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

My AW 308 with 175's gets to 1000 yds with 11.5 mills

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

my 700 ACC-SD has a 20, I'm getting about 2600 out of it, great shooting, only needs 3.4 mils to get to 500, and that at 6 degrees out side

 

[Lowlight]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

YA, Tell it to Todd, cause someone saw a video and now... LOL

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

Who is Todd?

 

[Lowlight]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskaman 11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who is Todd?
</div></div>

When you find out let us know... we've been asking the same question on here.

 

[Alaskaman11]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Alaskaman 11</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Who is Todd?
</div></div>

When you find out let us know... we've been asking the same question on here.

</div></div>

The Internet says its one of these guys, note no chicks in the pool!

 

[Lowlight]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

LOL,
That's not him...

 

[Pusher591]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: allghilliedup04</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> shorter barrel = stiffer barrel (assuming same contour) which means less barrel harmonics which means more consistant which means more accurate. The loss of MV in the 4 inches of barrel is minimal.

</div></div>

Less barrel harmonics, huh......

So, if we apply some logic to this, um, revelation, then why stop at 20 inches?

Shouldn't we just lop 'em all off at 16" to make the most accurate rifle possible?

Why not forego rifles altogether and just shoot 14" or 15" handguns?

Jeezus.......... </div></div>

My 17.5" barrel stays under MOA out to 730 yards, which is the fartherst I shoot on a regular basis. It's true, less harmonics you find barrel stays stiffer.

I mean I lost velocity but nothing a few cdlicks cant take care of

If you are shooting F-class or something and need the velocity go for it, but shorties RULE THE ROOST NOW, time to take a leap into the future old man.

 

[Jmilera]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

I don't get the Todd thing?

 

[slivoman]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">YA, Tell it to Todd, cause someone saw a video and now... LOL

</div></div>

Thank you for the laugh. Remember...Todd only uses 20 inch barrels on all his rifles and he can use the same scope on all his rifles and the zero never changes.

 

[Jmilera]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

Lol just realized what the hell you all are talking about. I wonder if this Todd hodnett is the same dude that was down here in Laredo ?
Sorry for the hijack .

 

[Lowlight]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

Was he packing a 20" er ? Then probably...

 

[Jmilera]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

TRG short barreled in the white. He was down here training some guys that frequent my buds gun shop.

 

[Lowlight]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

Did he lob rounds a mile away and impress every with a 1 in 10 hit ?

 

[Jmilera]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

Yep him and another smith from the hide gave me a HA from the short 338. It seemed like a 15 YO pulling on panties for the first time.

 

[allghilliedup04]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

Y'all need to stop taking things at face value. Argument is simple. Weighing the pros and cons a rifle that is going to be fielded 20" is a great overall length. Its stiff and provides enough volocity to reach good ranges yet short and light for mobility. Think outside the box a little.

 

[RobG]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: stockdoc</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As an FYI, look at the rigs competitors are using at tac matches where 1k shots are common. Not many 20" barrels there, and for a reason. <span style="font-weight: bold">In our tac matches there is NO ONE using a 20" barrel.</span> They may come out once or twice with one but not much more after that! YMMV

Higher altitudes wont give you higher MV but your bullet will have better BC in the thinner air. </div></div>

Well, not exactly true. I have taken mine there out several times. But since I suck, I always shoot first relay so you don't get to see my shorty

I run a 175 smk at 2650 from mine, roughly 10.2 mils. Probably not ideal but works to 1k.

 

[Griffin4590]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: allghilliedup04</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Y'all need to stop taking things at face value. Argument is simple. Weighing the pros and cons a rifle that is going to be fielded 20" is a great overall length. Its stiff and provides enough volocity to reach good ranges yet short and light for mobility. Think outside the box a little. </div></div>
good advice right there. There is no perfect one gun does it all but a good shooting 20" .308 is close

 

[Lowlight]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: allghilliedup04</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Y'all need to stop taking things at face value. Argument is simple. Weighing the pros and cons a rifle that is going to be fielded 20" is a great overall length. Its stiff and provides enough volocity to reach good ranges yet short and light for mobility. Think outside the box a little.</div></div>

Try doing little research before opening your mouth, I was advocating short barrels for years, heck back in 2004, the SHR was a 22" and back then people cried about that length, and then the Gladius 18.5", the others including 260s, at 20"... when everyone was running 26-28"

Johnny come lately would be wise to read more and opine less. Been talking about short barrels on here for years...

Thinking outside the box, it;s called SH. It;s been that way for a long time. Open your eyes.

 

[calling4life]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

How do the 155's stack up in these vs. the 175's? If a person is having trouble getting the needed speed, do the 155's provide for a worthy alternative?

 

[digger9523]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

Superb, Just what i needed to hear. Seems that for the most part it's agreed that a 20 inch barrel will be fine for my needs.

Thanks to all who've replied, i look forward to the continuing debate!

 

[allghilliedup04]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: allghilliedup04</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Y'all need to stop taking things at face value. Argument is simple. Weighing the pros and cons a rifle that is going to be fielded 20" is a great overall length. Its stiff and provides enough volocity to reach good ranges yet short and light for mobility. Think outside the box a little.</div></div>

Try doing little research before opening your mouth, I was advocating short barrels for years, heck back in 2004, the SHR was a 22" and back then people cried about that length, and then the Gladius 18.5", the others including 260s, at 20"... when everyone was running 26-28"

Johnny come lately would be wise to read more and opine less. Been talking about short barrels on here for years...

Thinking outside the box, it;s called SH. It;s been that way for a long time. Open your eyes. </div></div>

i meant nothing against you lowlight at all... not trying to start arguments or drag things out. just earlier i was attacked for my opinion and i was prooving my point. point being short barrels can be just as accurate as longer barrels and for the MV you lose the weight and shorter barrel is worth it IMO. ive used 18 in guns, 20, 24, 26 and 20 seems to be my favorite (unless surpressed having the 2 in less with the 18 is nice). i meant no bad blood, just defending my opinion

 

[Nowayimissed]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: allghilliedup04</div><div class="ubbcode-body">20 in can go past 1000 no problem if you know what your doing. shorter barrel = stiffer barrel (assuming same contour) which means less barrel harmonics which means more consistant which means more accurate. The loss of MV in the 4 inches of barrel is minimal.

That being said twist rate and bullet weight can make a difference. 20 in is best with a 1 in 10 for shooting 175 bullets. higher grains with good BCs means more accurate (less wind drift) at extended ranges </div></div>x2, i have found that my 20'' is better at 1k yards and close range.....

 

[Bennyboy]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

I push 178 AMAX's at 2550 with Reloder 15 and 208 AMAX's at 2390, all out of a 20". I have a 24" and I run about 2670 with the 178s and actually less MV with the 208s because the 24" is a Savage and I can't run the OAL out near as far.

I like the 20" much better all around and it sees plenty of 1000 yard duty.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pusher591</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> but shorties RULE THE ROOST NOW, time to take a leap into the future old man. </div></div>

Who you calling old man?

Want to see a vid clip of my 8 year old, now 11, first time busting steel at 500+ wrong handed, in the wind, with one of MY 20" barreled rifles?

It pretty much sums up what we do around here.......

Seems you might have misinterpretated my post as being anti short barrel. Jokes on you friend, my train of thought was a tad deeper than that.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

Here ya go "ghillie", you sound like you might like something like this......ya know, for those nasty barrel harmonics.

 

[Pusher591]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

Hahaha, just giving you a hard time Tripwire, nothing meant by my post.

 

[Tripwire]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

Just returning the fire, I mean favor.....<grins>

 

[stockdoc]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

RobG, OK sorry there is ONE 20" out there. Apparently 20's are the bomb everywhere else. Guess it's that heavy Kalifornia air we shoot in that don't let the 20's shoot right at our range!

 

[Chanonry]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Tell it to Todd

</div></div>

Kind of catchy don't you think, or did I miss that as well. It was a long thread...

 

[XTR]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It depends solely on your MV as to the performance of a 20" barrel.

I have a 20" factory barrel here that only gets about 2450fps to 2475fps which is not going to work to 1000 yards. So you have to get a barrel up to the task.

just because success can be had with some 20" barrels doesn't mean it translates to all 20" barrels. You have to have a good one, tight bore preferred, and you have to have a muzzle velocity of at least over 2600fps with a 175gr SMK for any kind of sustained success at 1000 yards.

It's not the length as much as the muzzle velocity. If you are crossing under 1150fps you're not gonna see as much success as if you were above 1200fps, that is the deciding factor.

The numbers tell the tale. </div></div>

In all the rest of the slinging in here this part is is important. Not all barrels are created equal.

My old 24" Rock Creek was 75 to 100 FPS faster than my Rem Varmint with 26" factory barrel. I won't even get into figuring out where your barrel rifle shoots best.

To get to 1000 with consistent success you want to get there before the bullet transonic. At 2650 MV you go sub sonic right at 1000 yds at sea level, if your DA is typically higher than that then you get by with less. (I'm at 900 feet here, the other morning at the range it was cold the DA was -1000 feet) Faster means less windage. You get about 11 inches of windage per 1 MPH of full value wind with that 2650 MV. For tactical shoots that's a concern but somewhat less than for me trying to hit a 10" 10-ring 20 times in a row. (hasn't happened yet )

 

[allghilliedup04]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Here ya go "ghillie", you sound like you might like something like this......ya know, for those nasty barrel harmonics.

</div></div>

i had to go look and see what this was cause ive never heard of it... now i get why you posted it ha

 

[para1505]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

There ia a guy who works at a local gun shop near me that is trying to alays push them things off on everyone.

 

[flynlow3]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

I like the short barrel because it is more maneuverable and stiffer. I loose a bit of mv but its more of a joy to shoot. I also like the 24" 5R barrel.

 

[MontanaMarine]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

Unless you are tied to factory ammo, you can get those 20-inchers to retain well over 1200 fps at 1000 yards.

I have a mag-length load for the 220gr SMK at 2540 fps from my 20.5" Remington via RL-17 powder. It's still going about 1500 fps at 1K, in local atmo. Even at a more sedate 2500 fps the 220 SMK will retain about 1350 fps at 1K, at sea level.

The 210 Berger, 208 AMax, Hornady's 195gr and 208gr BTHP should do well too. Think RL17, or MR2000 for powders.

My everyday load for the 20.5" 308 is a 208 AMax at 2600 fps propelled by RL-17 (loaded long, single-load). It's still doing 1600 fps at 1000 yards, at 4500ft elevation. At sea level it should still be going about 1480 fps at 1K. It hits HARD for a 308.

 

[SaepeExertus]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

20" works great out to a grand. Think of the M110/SR25 plenty of shots have been made out to a grand and they only have 20" barrels. I've got buddies who swear by there 20" barrels.

 

[digger9523]

Re: 20 inch barrel at long range?

Thanks for all of the replies folks.

I'm going to give a 20 incher a go and see how she works. It'll be an AI 20 inch fluted barrel threaded for the tactical muzzle brake. Getting the rifle fully coated in NATO Green as well, so she'll look more like Ho's rifle a bit further back in the thread.