Ok, so here is the deal, I think I have a budget of about $2000 for a rifle (optic not included). As of right now I think I'm in the market for a 308. Here is where you Guys/Girls come in, all I know is that I want the ability to hit a target (inanimate or alive) at 1000 yards. I need good sound advice on what to do, do a buy an already built one or can yall tell me how to build a better one myself for the same price. I picked 308 because it should be cheaper to shot than some of the other rounds. I plan on buying/building this gun and then learning to get real good with it. I know there are probably other threads that are out there that talk about this but, I want to start a new because there is always something new.
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$2000 and no REAL idea
- Thread starter ccharles
- Start date
Got one on the shelf.
m700 fully tuned up
TIG timed bolt
hvy lug
bartlein RV contour 11.25 rot ss barrel. 308 win setup for 168 to 180 grain
fluted bolt
tac knob
threaded muzzle 5/8-24
Thread cap
Tinney trigger
1913 base
Bell/Carlsonstock
2x color desert holographic paint on stock
black cerakote on metal
PTG stealth dbm
200 rounds (approx) on barrel. Shoots great.
$2200+shipping.
ffl required.
m700 fully tuned up
TIG timed bolt
hvy lug
bartlein RV contour 11.25 rot ss barrel. 308 win setup for 168 to 180 grain
fluted bolt
tac knob
threaded muzzle 5/8-24
Thread cap
Tinney trigger
1913 base
Bell/Carlsonstock
2x color desert holographic paint on stock
black cerakote on metal
PTG stealth dbm
200 rounds (approx) on barrel. Shoots great.
$2200+shipping.
ffl required.
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^^ there you go!
Also, fill out your profile with a location. If you are serious about getting into LR shooting, there is a Sniper's Hide Member Link Up page where you can get in tune with local shoots and matches. This will give you the opportunity to meet some locals with the same interest, handle some rifles and get a ton of real world info and advice.
Kirk Roberts
Also, fill out your profile with a location. If you are serious about getting into LR shooting, there is a Sniper's Hide Member Link Up page where you can get in tune with local shoots and matches. This will give you the opportunity to meet some locals with the same interest, handle some rifles and get a ton of real world info and advice.
Kirk Roberts
There are far too many nitty gritty details in rifles to tell you what to get.
$2000 is bottom end "custom", but middle-high end "factory". In your shoes, I'd choose factory.
Cartridge? 308 is a great choice for beginners that'll spend 90+% of their time inside 1000 yards, and 75% inside 800. If you will honestly be shooting those longer distances quite a lot, a 6.5mm or 6mm cartridge would be a big advantage. The key excellence of 308 is how easy it is on barrels. The 6.5s and 6s are significantly harder on them.
Also, rifle choices are more abundant in 308. Just a FEW options in or around your price range are: FN SPR, SAKO TRG22 (used), SIG SSG3K. These are excellent rifles.
In 6.5, the only one I know to recommend is a Savage 12 LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor, which is a solid rifle significantly under your budget. It is not as "fine" as others, but a good rifle nonetheless.
Otherwise, peruse the classifieds here and find something that strikes your fancy.
$2000 is bottom end "custom", but middle-high end "factory". In your shoes, I'd choose factory.
Cartridge? 308 is a great choice for beginners that'll spend 90+% of their time inside 1000 yards, and 75% inside 800. If you will honestly be shooting those longer distances quite a lot, a 6.5mm or 6mm cartridge would be a big advantage. The key excellence of 308 is how easy it is on barrels. The 6.5s and 6s are significantly harder on them.
Also, rifle choices are more abundant in 308. Just a FEW options in or around your price range are: FN SPR, SAKO TRG22 (used), SIG SSG3K. These are excellent rifles.
In 6.5, the only one I know to recommend is a Savage 12 LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor, which is a solid rifle significantly under your budget. It is not as "fine" as others, but a good rifle nonetheless.
Otherwise, peruse the classifieds here and find something that strikes your fancy.
$2000 and no REAL idea
700 5r is a good starting point. Building is exciting, and rewarding.
If you are going to get real good with it, you'll hit 1000 consistently. Which will make it that much more impressive right.
I assume if you have that money to dump in a rifle that you'll have a decent budget for a good scope?
700 5r is a good starting point. Building is exciting, and rewarding.
If you are going to get real good with it, you'll hit 1000 consistently. Which will make it that much more impressive right.
I assume if you have that money to dump in a rifle that you'll have a decent budget for a good scope?
Lots of good ways to go with the rifle. Several have been mentioned. Another way to go would be to pick up a Tikka and then bolt into a new X-ray chassis from KRG. You'd be into that setup about 1200-1300, with $$$ left for other things. Now, about the caliber. If you really will be spending a lot of your time at or around 1000, I'd consider skipping the 308. I know there is a lot of conventional wisdom about starting newer shooters with 308 - I just tend to think that other options may be better (yes even for a beginner). Do you reload at all? If you do, then I would even more strongly consider something besides 308 (6.5 or 6).
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I second the guys with factory suggestion. Also, the other is right. Tikka t3 tac, sako trg22 used, steyr ssg04, Fn, sig are all great factory options.
Again, if you are new to the long range shooting, go with 308 as it is much easier and cheaper to shoot. 308 will shoot great up to just over 800 yd w good ammo. 1000 yd is good if you have hotter hand load.
Last thing, 308 is easier to sell as it is more popular and easier on barrel.
Again, if you are new to the long range shooting, go with 308 as it is much easier and cheaper to shoot. 308 will shoot great up to just over 800 yd w good ammo. 1000 yd is good if you have hotter hand load.
Last thing, 308 is easier to sell as it is more popular and easier on barrel.
To add a couple of factory options
Tikka sporter - you can have it in 308 or 6.5x55. They feel and shoot close to trg22
Stery SSG69
Sig Sauer 3000
All in 1500 range, give or take
Tikka sporter - you can have it in 308 or 6.5x55. They feel and shoot close to trg22
Stery SSG69
Sig Sauer 3000
All in 1500 range, give or take
I wouldn't look any further than this. It's a great start and the long term service you'll get from Chad will be worth it
So after looking at the guns people recommended, I’m taking an interest in the Sig SSG 3000. The big reason is I can get a discount on a brand new one and I like Sigs. Now if you have any info on the gun (good or bad) please feel free. I should mention that I won’t be making the purchase for a few months so I have time to figure what best for me.
The LRP 308 is a much better deal than the Sig SSG 3000; match grade barrel, optimized for match grade 308 rounds, completely worked over receiver with all of the bells and whistles, and detachable mag assembly to boot! The Sig has mostly proprietary parts and will not likely be as accurate as something like what was offered above by Chad. Scroll through the forums here. The only factory rifles that are really held in high esteem are AIs and Sakos ... while Sig makes good pistols, their rifles are not in the same league as a Sako or an AI. That rifle Chad is offering would get you pretty close.
Before spending money consider where you're going to be shooting it. If your intention is to get experience at long range by shooting local f class matches, then perhaps you should review the rifle classes in f class. There are people recommending 6.5mm wonder guns which are fine but which will put you in F-Open, "competing" with bench rest guns. And there's been of late a lot of bitching about that fact in the F Class Competition threads. If it has a muzzle brake then you cannot shoot it in F class.
I personally think 308 is a great choice for starters. It is fully capable of shooting 1000 yards, offers the most variety of quality ammo, is easy to reload, recoil is mild, probably easiest to get components for (if there is such a thing as easy-to-get components), offers most users great barrel life.
I personally think 308 is a great choice for starters. It is fully capable of shooting 1000 yards, offers the most variety of quality ammo, is easy to reload, recoil is mild, probably easiest to get components for (if there is such a thing as easy-to-get components), offers most users great barrel life.
At $2,000 my choice would be an ssg3000 with a McMillan stock on it. Unless you can score a nice deal on a used AI AE mk3. I saw one go for $2500 a couple weeks back on gunbroker. I imagine there might be a few more AEs hitting the market once the AT actually makes it stateside.
I'm new to long range shooting also. Just picked up a used 16" Steyr SSG. I'm not sure if the barrel is cut, or original length. Came with a Tac knob. Does somebody know how to tell the difference between a PII and a PIV? Any help greatly appreciated.
I'm sort of a big picture guy and try to look at the various aspects associated with shooting as a whole. Part of this process worthy of consideration is ammunition. If wanting to learn to shoot well, it takes practice behind the gun which requires ammunition to shoot. Do you reload? If you don't, then I would consider purchasing a factory gun, putting on a good trigger and spending the remaining money for the necessary reloading equipment and supplies. Shooting factory ammunition can get expensive at $1.50 a round (plus or minus). Reloading allows you to tune your loads to your gun and shoot for around .60¢ to .70¢ a round. This savings adds up at the end of a year (although if you're like me, it just means I get to shoot twice as much for the same price). The savings can be put towards a chassis or better stock and done when funds allow. Remington 700Ps and 5Rs have decent stocks and typically shoot well (1 MOA or less) out of the box. If wanting a less expensive version then the 700 Varmint models have the same barrel and action as the 700P but a lower quality stock, Hogue I believe. Savage makes a good gun as does Tika and Howa.
If reloading is not in your future, then getting a gun like the one Chad has listed might be the way to go. You'll have a gun that will shoot accurately with match grade ammunition and already tuned/barreled with a match grade barrel.
Either way you go, you'll have fun...Sig Marine
If reloading is not in your future, then getting a gun like the one Chad has listed might be the way to go. You'll have a gun that will shoot accurately with match grade ammunition and already tuned/barreled with a match grade barrel.
Either way you go, you'll have fun...Sig Marine
LRP .308 effing screaming deal! That is as custom as you can get for the money!!! Crap... Wish I had $2200....
PII has the 26" barrel
PIIK has the 20" barrel
The PIV has the 16" barrel with factory flash hider
HARD to beat a FN SPR or a Tikka Tac/Sporter/CTR dropped into a KRG Chassis for $2000. That is where my money would be.
I'm with several others on this thread. It is very hard for a factory rig to beat a custom built rifle. I would choose the LRP in a heartbeat and never look back.
Skip the fluff and you can come in way under $2000.
Coatings look neat, but nothing trumps stainless. Fluted bolts, knobs, fancy paint jobs, blah blah blah.
Either buy a Tikka in 308 for $650 or so, add a McMillan at $500, and you still have $850 for glass and mounts. Or spend part of that on an AI magazine system.
You could build a full custom off an M700 including McMillan for probably $1600 or so.
Coatings look neat, but nothing trumps stainless. Fluted bolts, knobs, fancy paint jobs, blah blah blah.
Either buy a Tikka in 308 for $650 or so, add a McMillan at $500, and you still have $850 for glass and mounts. Or spend part of that on an AI magazine system.
You could build a full custom off an M700 including McMillan for probably $1600 or so.
SPR' & Tikkas will easily run with most customs in the same class. They have many features that the shitty rem action doesn't........no matter how much you polish a turd.
Mighr want to go back and redo your math....Mr. Troll Account
M700 action: $450
Barrel: $315
McMillian with Bottom Metal: $600+
Rail: $80+
True action: $200+
Chamber & Fit Barrel: $300+
Misc other costs & Parts : $200
Finish/Coating: $200+
Doesn't take rain man to figure out how fast that shit adds up. Thats not including a long wait.
The Custom that Chad posted is actualy a SMOKING deal from a known builder using decent parts. Your not going to do any cheaper than that without a smith doing it for free.
If you don't buy the LRP from chad I hope a monkey finds you and falcon punches you in the buddies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The LRP looks to be a great deal. If you want factory rifle look at the STEYR SSG-04 they shoot very good out of the box. I am shooting Berger Long Range BT Target at less then 1/2 MOA and out to 900 yards with first shot success. I think Buds Guns has them in stock for just under $1800.
I was prepared to tell OP to wait and do research until he could decide for himself what to buy, but crap, after seeing this I'm considering selling an organ to get one for me. Damn you Dixon, you know better than to put this out there in front of people with gin buying problems.
We all read more than we post. 7 years and 9 posts..............................yea something smells like poopie in Denmark
A $450 Savage in 6.5CM will get you to 1000 yards. Why not just buy that than?
ccharles,
To some, I guess I'm just another troll. Obviously, lots of opinions out there - some more strongly voiced than others. When you talk about accuracy and performance in rifles, I generally look at the guys who are anal about putting 5 and 10 rounds into a single hole. Do your own research here. Go find out what the Benchrest boys are shooting. Or the LR and Tactical shooters. Prize money and braggin' rights are big incentives. These guys can shoot anything they want. So how many are shooting custom built rifles built on Rem 700 and 700 clones and how many are shooting off-the-shelf SPR & Tikka rifles? You will find that most of them are custom builds based on 'the turd' action. Will a Tikka or Spr be good enough to get the job done for you? Probably. Will they consistently run with a well-tuned custom? I think you can answer that one for yourself.
To some, I guess I'm just another troll. Obviously, lots of opinions out there - some more strongly voiced than others. When you talk about accuracy and performance in rifles, I generally look at the guys who are anal about putting 5 and 10 rounds into a single hole. Do your own research here. Go find out what the Benchrest boys are shooting. Or the LR and Tactical shooters. Prize money and braggin' rights are big incentives. These guys can shoot anything they want. So how many are shooting custom built rifles built on Rem 700 and 700 clones and how many are shooting off-the-shelf SPR & Tikka rifles? You will find that most of them are custom builds based on 'the turd' action. Will a Tikka or Spr be good enough to get the job done for you? Probably. Will they consistently run with a well-tuned custom? I think you can answer that one for yourself.
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If you shooting "live" targets at 1k.........Magnum is a word to study carefully and conservatively.
Not reloading almost dictates 308win, 6.5 creedmoor for decent match ammo to serve most purposes with minimum recoil and 300 win, 338 lapua for Large game like elk at that distance.
While I retain a residual soft spot for the 308, for real 1k work: there are simply too many far superior cartridges to consider.
Reloading....................HANDLOADING is a must. If you don't, you should. It is the Cheapest, fastest way to get the most accuracy possible out of every single rifle mentioned.
Factory creadmoor ammo can be had at about $1.30 a round and reloaded as cheap as $0.50, even the really big magnums can be reloaded at around a dollar a piece.
Not reloading almost dictates 308win, 6.5 creedmoor for decent match ammo to serve most purposes with minimum recoil and 300 win, 338 lapua for Large game like elk at that distance.
While I retain a residual soft spot for the 308, for real 1k work: there are simply too many far superior cartridges to consider.
Reloading....................HANDLOADING is a must. If you don't, you should. It is the Cheapest, fastest way to get the most accuracy possible out of every single rifle mentioned.
Factory creadmoor ammo can be had at about $1.30 a round and reloaded as cheap as $0.50, even the really big magnums can be reloaded at around a dollar a piece.
People shoot what they are paid to, or what jerry the local retard smith can work on. Any moron can work on a 700 and that is why there are so many smiths who work on them. It takes almost zero mechanical or machining skill to throw one into a lathe and go to town.
There are people who compete with the Tikka, infact 2 of the top50 PRS shooters used Tikka. All of those guys are shooting custom guns or AI's.
Give any of those shooters using a 700 clone a Win70 or Tikka and it would be the same result. They are produced in much lower numbers but those factory guns shoot every bit as well as custome guns.
My old SPR A1 shot 3/8" with FGMM 168's. My current Tikka T3 .260 Sporter in a WC3 Chassis hammers 123gr scenar SWA ammo 1/2 MOA. That is a factory gun with a factory barrel. Both of those would hold their own to any comparable GAP/KMW/ECT in the same caliber/length/ammo.
A new shooter would be a fool not to look at either of those guns getting into the sport. They will spend MUCH less and get performance of custom guns.
If Berretta can actualy import the new Tikka CTR in numbers, its going to destroy (or should) the sub $3k bolt rifle market.
spend a grand on any production rifle savage howa Remington etc. replace or have the trigger reworked so it breaks like an icecicle and with whatevers left get to a range. preferably somewhere that has different wind values. and log everything
The real question is how quickly do you want to develop as a shooter? There are alot of rigs you can shoot, but the value of excellent equipment is that it removes "the rifle", "the scope", or "the load" from the list of possible reasons for poor performance. That leaves you to focus on you.
-This isn't a cheap activity, but you can build your equipment up over time.
-You must handload eventually, so figure it into your budget.
-Factory rifles don't shoot with customs as a rule of thumb. (And usually it's not close)
-You are best served by eliminating as many variables from the accuracy equation as you can with your purchase.
-Buying the top quality gear to begin with isn't only easiest, it's also cheapest.
My personal choice would be to start with handloading equipment or that rifle from Chad and buy premium ammo.
-This isn't a cheap activity, but you can build your equipment up over time.
-You must handload eventually, so figure it into your budget.
-Factory rifles don't shoot with customs as a rule of thumb. (And usually it's not close)
-You are best served by eliminating as many variables from the accuracy equation as you can with your purchase.
-Buying the top quality gear to begin with isn't only easiest, it's also cheapest.
My personal choice would be to start with handloading equipment or that rifle from Chad and buy premium ammo.
Cobra,
If you live next door to Chad Dixon, Terry Cross or Wm Roscoe, are they still the local retard?
Cool Story. The reason the 700 is so widely used is that any monkey with a lathe can build a 700. It requires very little mechanical and machining skill/experince.
The 700 has become a self fulfilling prophecy. Smiths built them because they were easier/cheaper, Schools taught it because it was easier/cheaper, The military adopted it because it was cheaper.....
As such everyone made accessories for it.....
It is literally the WORST designed and manufactured of the major factory rifles out there. It has been a race to the bottom for years to cut corners and cost to keep the 700 selling at a low price.
Amazingly, Tikka is able to produce a correct from the factory action, with a HIGH quality barrel that shoots, along with a stock that is not a Tupperware piece of shit........IN a European country..... and sell them for less than a 700..
All those smiths should be sending Remington Fruit baskets and summer sausages, because if it wasn't for their shitty designs/manufacturing..........they wouldn't have a business.
And I wonder why there is such a huge market for 700 clone actions. People would rather pay 3x as much for something with similar footprint.........done right the first time.
+1.
Tikkas have a better barrel, better bolt, better extractor, better trigger, better bolt release and almost always shoot better. Upgrade the features on an M700 action just to match what comes standard with Tikka and you are probably past the price of just starting with a Stiller etc...
Graham,
Guy wants a rifle, not a 1400.00 dollar lesson from your buddy. Your suggestion makes as much sense as telling him to hire a 1400.00 hooker. Both might be fun and possibly educational , but neither assist him in reaching his stated immediate goal.
Guy wants a rifle, not a 1400.00 dollar lesson from your buddy. Your suggestion makes as much sense as telling him to hire a 1400.00 hooker. Both might be fun and possibly educational , but neither assist him in reaching his stated immediate goal.
Personally, I would go on the hunt for a clean used FN SPR. Top notch stock and an action better than any Remington or clone (IMO) right out of the box.
Cobra,
If you live next door to Chad Dixon, Terry Cross or Wm Roscoe, are they still the local retard?
Two out of three would still be...
If you or him just want to buy a gun to show off to your buddies or brag at the local watering hole...........then this site is not for you.
Graham's advice is spot on....... and to be honest.... this is an EXPESNIVE sport/hobby. $1400 will get you a shitty rifle, a shitty optic, and a little shitty ammo and zero training or experince.
Personaly, I would rather drop $1400 on the hooker. Atleast you will get some bang for your buck.
Yep. VERY hard to beat for a starter rifle. Solid action, good stock, great barrel... at a cheap price. Probally the best value/lowest cost while still being a top notch gun over the life of the weapoin. 15K rounds easy with that barrel.........
I Really regret selling my SPRA1..... one of the better rifles I have ever owned.
$2000 and no REAL idea
Of course, I assumed that he is serious about learning something.
rth1800 wants to argue with me so badly that he's willing to damage his credibility to do it. If he doesn't know the difference between the education offered by a rifle course and a $1400 hooker either type of lesson is probably lost on him.
My point was less about going to Rifles Only than it was about the OP placing his eventual expenses into perspective.
Of course, I assumed that he is serious about learning something.
rth1800 wants to argue with me so badly that he's willing to damage his credibility to do it. If he doesn't know the difference between the education offered by a rifle course and a $1400 hooker either type of lesson is probably lost on him.
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Graham , that first sentence , is the truest thing I have ever heard. You ought to make that your sig
