**2014 JC Steel Target Challenge, Sponsored by Seekins Precision

[JLR]

I think I shot worse on the 2nd day... I was shooting a 308 too so you would think I would have done much better with less wind. I guess we all just have bad days. Do you all remember that stage on the 1st day with the rack of small hanging steel targets? It was at around 300 yards. I believe I zeroed that stage because I couldn't see that of the 10 or 12 hangers only 3 still had targets on them. I was shooting at nothing the whole time lol. That's what I get for coming into the competition with a fixed 12x $300 scope.

That stage ended up getting thrown out, so it didn't cost you anything at least

I'll just say a quick thanks to Jake and all the ROs for hard work they put in to make this match happen. Another thanks needs to go out to all the sponsors, and hopefully Jake or someone can get a list up so we can all email them a proper thanks.

 

[B.Morgan]

I wasn't actually at this match but I heard from a reliable source that was cousins with the RO at another match that heard a competitor on one of the other squads that had heard about this cheating. He said that he heard that they saw a small Asian man jump from the trunk of his car nekkid but with obvious ninjer skills and put his big toe on the platform. I have no reason to dispute the credibility of this guy.

 

[JLR]

I wasn't actually at this match but I heard from a reliable source that was cousins with the RO at another match that heard a competitor on one of the other squads that had heard about this cheating. He said that he heard that they saw a small Asian man jump from the trunk of his car nekkid but with obvious ninjer skills and put his big toe on the platform. I have no reason to dispute the credibility of this guy.

Bryan, I heard he wasn't tall enough to mount the platform......hence only being able to touch with said big toe while standing on his head.....very ninja-ish

 

[mkollman74]

Bryan, I heard he wasn't tall enough to mount the platform......hence only being able to touch with said big toe while standing on his head.....very ninja-ish

I was an RO at this match. To clear up any confusion, there were no ninjas. Carry on...

 

[NorCal Vu]

I wasn't actually at this match but I heard from a reliable source that was cousins with the RO at another match that heard a competitor on one of the other squads that had heard about this cheating. He said that he heard that they saw a small Asian man jump from the trunk of his car nekkid but with obvious ninjer skills and put his big toe on the platform. I have no reason to dispute the credibility of this guy.

Why it gotta be an Asian man?

 

[JC Steel]

Score coming tonight guys. BUT, I cant not figure out how to post an excel spreadsheet, any help?

 

[65guys_steve]

Save it out on the web as a google doc spreadsheet and lock the file to edits. Then just post a link here...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[JC Steel]

OK guys, lets see if this works. Thanks guys, Should be both days for those of you looking for all the info. Has not been edited or double checked. Just entered and posted here.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3EDrF0bPPP5YnhKU2Fjb2pxbkk/edit?usp=sharing

 

[65guys_steve]

Thanks Jake, looks good. Will you also be sharing shooter stats such as rifle, cartridge, and load info?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[D_TROS]

I wasn't actually at this match but I heard from a reliable source that was cousins with the RO at another match that heard a competitor on one of the other squads that had heard about this cheating. He said that he heard that they saw a small Asian man jump from the trunk of his car nekkid but with obvious ninjer skills and put his big toe on the platform. I have no reason to dispute the credibility of this guy.

wow...I lol'd

What place did you guys come in and what was your setup? Im always interested in what others are using to give me ideas.

Hey Gil,

I took 14th. My setup:
6x47 - 105's going 2950
Steiner 5-25 MSR (Surprised it was the only Steiner up there I saw...)
Bighorn Action
22" Bartlein
Sentinel Stock
Smith was Ployhar Precision outta Montana. (Great work and fast turnaround - PM if you want his info)

Regards,
DT

 

[shankster..]

Eddieg1979 is not impressed.

 

[Spot-on]

OK, so is everyone done about the cheating thing? Good. I think enough damage has been done there, so let's instead talk about how to improve matches in the future (please note I'm not talking specifically about improving Jake's match as I think he did a hell of a job -- these comments are generic to all long range precision shooting matches). My ideas are:

1. Plan them for months where the weather is usually best (varies by part of country and of course this is no guarantee of good weather -- just trying to up the odds). Of course if the MD intent is to stress people in bad weather situations, then disregard this one.
2. Shooting a stage out of order is a stage DQ. Man up and wait if you need to. Rest and re-hydrate. Squads could be numbered and RO's would need to ensure squads rotated through in numerical order.
3. Stay with your squad. If you have faster squad members give them more of the slower guys gear to carry, but stay together. The military analogy is no one left behind.
4. It would be interesting if the MD set the shooting order ahead of the match. In squad A shooter 1 goes first the first stage, 2nd the second stage, etc. Handing the RO's this shooting order before the match begins would cut down on alot of "check-in" activities as people arrive at a stage and ensure everyone got the advantages and disadvantages of shooting first, second, etc. It would also give the shooters an early indicate if they needed to hurry up a bit on those stages where they were shooting first or second.
5. Send the RO's to the stage at the beginning of the day at least 15 minutes ahead of the shooters so they can examine the environment, get spotting scopes/etc. set up, decide on RO responsibilities at that stage, etc.
6. MD's -- don't be overly ambitious in the number of stages to shoot per day (unless you are advertising the match as a Ironman of some sort). Better to end in mid-afternoon than stretch until after dark. The number of stages planned per day depends alot on match location and distances between stages.
7. I like the idea of having multiple RO's on each stage to divvy up the work and increase safety awareness. But I would suggest having at least one of the RO's on each stage be an experienced RO, identify that person to the other RO's as the stage lead, and form a little command structure within the RO's. The lead RO needs to ensure shooters are processed through their stage efficiently, fairly, and pleasantly.

Each of these ideas leads to logistical/implementation questions which I'm sure will get hashed out here. And to be clear, I'm throwing these ideas out as food for thought and to get conversation and other ideas started. There is no intent to force any of these on a MD. I firmly believe it is up to the MD to decide on trying or not trying any new process. Listen, decide, adapt and improvise as the MD sees fit for their particular conditions.

 

[NorCal Vu]

Spot-On +1 on all that.

Jake and I compare notes to hopefully learn off each others successes and areas of needed improvement.

The one thing that blew me away is no one here brought up the ND that happened in the parking lot after the match was complete. Before anything else listed above, safety needs to be first and foremost, period.

 

[deadnbrkn84]

7th place.

6mm
Tier .5 Ninja Skilz
Defiance Action
105 Hybrid's going 3100
Tier 1 Eyeballs
Vortex Razor
Bartlein Barrel @ 26"
Tier 3 resistance to cold
Timney 510

 

[Gil P.]

There are a lot more 6mm guys than I thought. Why the 6mm over the 6.5mm? Are they a lot better in the wind?

DT, how do you like the Bighorn action? If you buy the picatinny rail from Bighorn, does it need to be bedded?

I got a cert for a Rock Creek barrel from the prize table. I was going to order it in 6.5mm, 8 twist, heavy palma contour, then get it chambered for a 6.5x47 lapua with a 26inch finished length.

Dead, some resistance to cold sure would have helped!

 

[6.5 sender]

Gil P. that depends on who is buying your barrel! The 6mm stuff (in my experience) eats the throat quicker that the 6.5. Of course the 30 cals. last longer that either one, they just don't cheat the wind as well.

 

[JC Steel]

Gilberto that 6.5x47 is an awesome round. I would highly recommend that. Shooting the 130 JLA bullets you will be doing very well!

 

[rieses]

Jake
be encouraged,
the match was a success, lots of fun and you did a great job of rounding up sponsors and volunteers.
A few hiccups in the mornings getting things going but that's easy to learn from and fix for next time.

i like the KYL mover stage got up to 4 and crashed then barely squeaked out 2 at the end.
It was nice having targets marked with letters.

thanks to all the ROs and sponsors.


Benchmark
Rock Creek
Krieger
SilencerCo
Kahles
Berger
Eberlstock
Seekins Precision
Thunder beast - -- cant wait to use my 50% off coupon
GAP
AI
XLR
RBROS

i know if forgot a bunch but its pretty sweet to have that nice of a prize table.
Thanks Jake looking forward to next year.

Jes

 

[Viper*6]

Looks like I missed a good match. Always next year!!

 

[Gil P.]

Gilberto that 6.5x47 is an awesome round. I would highly recommend that. Shooting the 130 JLA bullets you will be doing very well!

Who makes the JLA bullet? Nothing came up in the google search.

If I didn't mention it already, ill be using the 1:8 twist, I hear that's a good choice in this range of bullet lengths. Does having an action (like a Surgeon) that allows for more of the barrel to be threaded into it work better when mounting a silencer? The one thing I don't like about shooting is the noise.

 

[65guys_steve]

Hey Gil, I think Jake May have been referring to the JLK swampworks bullets. By the way, I was in your squad shooting an Rbros rifle in a AI AX chassis, chambered in 6.5x47L. Fantastic cartridge! I'm using the Berger 130gr VLDs.


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[Gil P.]

Hey Gil, I think Jake May have been referring to the JLK swampworks bullets. By the way, I was in your squad shooting an Rbros rifle in a AI AX chassis, chambered in 6.5x47L. Fantastic cartridge! I'm using the Berger 130gr VLDs.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks for the info. How fast are you able to ge those 130gr VLDs to fly and out of what length barrel?

 

[AtOne]

Spot-On +1 on all that.

Jake and I compare notes to hopefully learn off each others successes and areas of needed improvement.

The one thing that blew me away is no one here brought up the ND that happened in the parking lot after the match was complete. Before anything else listed above, safety needs to be first and foremost, period.

I think its the big white elephant in the room but it is something that should be addressed without a doubt !

Went to the Brawl and JC Steel and neither required chamber flags at the matches which kind of surprised me.

I understand that at this level of competition that we all understand safe gun handling skills but the reality is that if something bad can happen, eventually it will happen.

Scott's Field Shooter Challenges always uses them and so do we at the monthly UNSC matches. Its an idiot proof way for everyone around you to see that your firearm is safe. Not only coming off the line but transferring between stages.

It may not look cool and yes it does allow crap into your chamber but to me the benefits outweigh the disadvantages of them by making sure no one will hurt or get hurt from a ND, AD.

Nothing could be worse for this sport than for one accident to happen where someone is injured or killed.
I'd ask all the M.D's to consider this when deciding how to go about making sure firearms are safe throughout the match.

Thanks for bringing it up Vu, I do think it should be discussed.
Eric

 

[Bass Ackwardz]

I think its the big white elephant in the room but it is something that should be addressed without a doubt !

Went to the Brawl and JC Steel and neither required chamber flags at the matches which kind of surprised me.

I understand that at this level of competition that we all understand safe gun handling skills but the reality is that if something bad can happen, eventually it will happen.

Scott's Field Shooter Challenges always uses them and so do we at the monthly UNSC matches. Its an idiot proof way for everyone around you to see that your firearm is safe. Not only coming off the line but transferring between stages.

It may not look cool and yes it does allow crap into your chamber but to me the benefits outweigh the disadvantages of them by making sure no one will hurt or get hurt from a ND, AD.

Nothing could be worse for this sport than for one accident to happen where someone is injured or killed.
I'd ask all the M.D's to consider this when deciding how to go about making sure firearms are safe throughout the match.

Thanks for bringing it up Vu, I do think it should be discussed.
Eric

Eric,
I understand the need for safety, believe me we've all seen things happen, and have heard the stories. I have been to several matches over the last 15 years, and only once or twice at a 3 gun match were competitors ever required to use a chamber flag. In a bolt gun, they do not stay in place hardly at all, and if you carry the weapon muzzle up (every match has different requirements on how to carry, muzzle up or down) then the bolt will not hold them in place. Having your bolt open when you are not actually firing at targets seems to be the very best way to handle the safety concerns. Having a chamber flag might have prevented the ND in the parking lot, but so would have following the 4 basic rules of fire arms safety. It is every persons job to help with safety issues by paying attention and telling people when they are not being safe. I am not trying to be difficult, just playing devils advocate. Every match has things they can improve on and its our job as competitors to help these matches become better.

Bill

 

[Spot-on]

Another very good idea worthy of mention that I did see at Jake's match was the use of backup targets. These were identically colored and shaped separate targets at the same distance so that once a few squads of people had passed through and blackened one target the RO's could switch shooters to the other one and see hits easier.

For MD's that don't have the steel resources that Jake does perhaps just call a ceasefire halfway through the day and re-paint.

 

[Mendocino]

Or never paint them.

Another very good idea worthy of mention that I did see at Jake's match was the use of backup targets. These were identically colored and shaped separate targets at the same distance so that once a few squads of people had passed through and blackened one target the RO's could switch shooters to the other one and see hits easier.

For MD's that don't have the steel resources that Jake does perhaps just call a ceasefire halfway through the day and re-paint.

 

[AtOne]

I do understand the issues with chamber flags and they can be a pain in the butt for sure but because they've been required we've been using either a rubber band or a hair tie to keep them from falling out.

For a little over a dollar between the chamber flag and providing some cheap hair ties ( BTW They don't snap through the match like rubber bands do ) everyone can be sure that the chamber is clear no matter where your at, whether its after a stage, transitioning between stages or in the parking lot before or after the match.

I'm not saying it should be mandatory but if safety is the paramount goal then this is the clear choice for everyone to be sure the guy next to them has a safe clear weapon.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Great point Eric! !

Sent from my SGH-T999L using Tapatalk

 

[hsss]

As far as chamber flags go im not a fan. I personally prefer the USPSA version of dry fireing to show the RO the gun is clear. And if you show up at the next stage with a cocked rifle you are DQed. Besides it helps keep junk out of you action.

 

[JC Steel]

I don't like chamber flags! We were at a match once and shot lots of rounds and had hot chambers and barrels. Guy put his chamber flag in like was required. Next stage he went to put a round in his chamber and there was just a little melted plastic or rubber left from the flag. He is jamming his round into the gun trying to make it fit. It was a huge safety concern IMHO.

If the bolt is open and back you will never have a problem. After a shooter is off the Line it's everyone's responsibility to hold people accountable. Not the RO, not the MD. Everyone. If someone comes off the line and puts a bullet in the gun for any reason everyone around should be coming unglued. I would.

And if someone goes back to the rig to fix something or back home to work on their rifle and are smart enough to fire a round I don't know what to say about that. Im as baffled about those decisions as the next guy

 

[JC Steel]

Although that's pretty slick eric!

 

[AtOne]

Alright so we all agree that chamber flags suck in one way or another but here's the question to any M.D

"If a N.D happened at your match and someone was seriously injured or killed would the excuse of how annoying a chamber flag is to use out weigh the personal injury or death of someone at your match ? "

Ask yourself honestly how you could of prevented it now before something does happen.

In a perfect world yes we all make sure to keep the chamber clear and keep an eye on those around us to do the same but when your loading up in the back of a truck or trailer with 20+ other people its hard to get a good visual on every chamber around you that happens to be pointing in your direction.
Many people carry their guns muzzle down with bolt closed but not cocked so seeing it isn't as easy as having a yellow indicator saying I'm unloaded.
If someone has a broken extractor the round will still be in the chamber even with the mag out and bolt back and I never witnessed anyone verifying a clear chamber after any stage.

If the chamber flag isn't the answer then suggest something that is because I really don't think that the SOP of bolt open with 100+ competitors is the best answer.

 

[fusiachi]

Alright so we all agree that chamber flags suck in one way or another but here's the question to any M.D

"If a N.D happened at your match and someone was seriously injured or killed would the excuse of how annoying a chamber flag is to use out weigh the personal injury or death of someone at your match ? "

Ask yourself honestly how you could of prevented it now before something does happen.

In a perfect world yes we all make sure to keep the chamber clear and keep an eye on those around us to do the same but when your loading up in the back of a truck or trailer with 20+ other people its hard to get a good visual on every chamber around you that happens to be pointing in your direction.
Many people carry their guns muzzle down with bolt closed but not cocked so seeing it isn't as easy as having a yellow indicator saying I'm unloaded.
If someone has a broken extractor the round will still be in the chamber even with the mag out and bolt back and I never witnessed anyone verifying a clear chamber after any stage.

If the chamber flag isn't the answer then suggest something that is because I really don't think that the SOP of bolt open with 100+ competitors is the best answer.

No matter what lengths you go to idiot-proof things, the engineers building better idiots will always be one step ahead. The only thing you can do when someone chambers a live round in a parking lot to demonstrate how his rifle is malfunctioning is duck.

 

[Willys46]

As someone that was downrange about 15 yrds away form the ND at the 11:00 position loading my gear in the trunk of my car, I have put a lot of thought into this. It really hit me about 3 hours later on the drive home.

I'm with Eric, I am not a huge fan of chamber flags, but I think they could be a good idea. In this instance, the "story" I heard, the chamber flag would not have helped. Me and my shooting partner tried to do a buddy check after each stage. We all get carried away especially after a frustrating stage.

During and after the match there should be NO f-ing with stuff in a NON DESIGNATED safety zone. The parking lot is not one of them.

MD Should set a safety zone in the staging area or parking lot in-case someone needs to screw with gear.

We all make mistakes, and it can happen to anyone....I will be using a chamber flag at all times moving forward even if they are not required.

I have never seen/heard of one melting before, that was one hot barrel.

 

[JC Steel]

Even though I don't like them eric I'm not disagreeing with you.

EVERY match or training I hold will require yellow OBI (chamber flags) from now on.

Walk to rhe firing line, Hand it to the RO, Shoot your stage, get the OBI and put it back in your gun. That simple. Never take the OBI from your chamber unless the RO takes it from you just before you shoot!

Done

 

[KevinD]

Even though I don't like them eric I'm not disagreeing with you.

EVERY match or training I hold will require yellow OBI (chamber flags) from now on.

Walk to rhe firing line, Hand it to the RO, Shoot your stage, get the OBI and put it back in your gun. That simple. Never take the OBI from your chamber unless the RO takes it from you just before you shoot!

Done

We require a chamber flag at all of our matches. They give us just a little more peace of mind than having the shooters running an open bolt. They make some flags that are curved that will stay inside of an open bolt gun.

 

[AtOne]

Jake appreciate you looking at it objectivly to help keep things safe at the matches.

Willys46 I must of been right next to your car because Brian and myself we're in almost that exact location too at the tailgate of his truck pulling his scope off to give to the manufacturing rep.

Way too close for comfort for me too which is probably why I'm pushing for this.

 

[pinsandpitons]

broken extractor the round will still be in the chamber even with the mag out and bolt back and I never witnessed anyone verifying a clear chamber after any stage.

I RO'ed both days, and while I can't guarantee that I caught 100% of chambers, I made it a point (as RSO to order "bolt back, magazine removed" and inspect the chamber after time was called . Like Jake said, it's up to all of us to police each other and ourselves at these matches. (that goes for sportsmanship as well) As they say at the Rock Island dam, "safety is no accident", meaning it takes mindfulness.

In the words of Forrest Gump... that's all i've got to say about that.

 

[DIBBS]

Another thanks needs to go out to all the sponsors, and hopefully Jake or someone can get a list up so we can all email them a proper thanks.

I was looking at the shoot T-shirt today, and its got a BIG list of sponsors. It may not be all inclusive, but I hope all of us would take a little time to send a written thank you to as many sponsors as we can!

 

[Bass Ackwardz]

Alright so we all agree that chamber flags suck in one way or another but here's the question to any M.D

"If a N.D happened at your match and someone was seriously injured or killed would the excuse of how annoying a chamber flag is to use out weigh the personal injury or death of someone at your match ? "

Ask yourself honestly how you could of prevented it now before something does happen.

In a perfect world yes we all make sure to keep the chamber clear and keep an eye on those around us to do the same but when your loading up in the back of a truck or trailer with 20+ other people its hard to get a good visual on every chamber around you that happens to be pointing in your direction.
Many people carry their guns muzzle down with bolt closed but not cocked so seeing it isn't as easy as having a yellow indicator saying I'm unloaded.
If someone has a broken extractor the round will still be in the chamber even with the mag out and bolt back and I never witnessed anyone verifying a clear chamber after any stage.

If the chamber flag isn't the answer then suggest something that is because I really don't think that the SOP of bolt open with 100+ competitors is the best answer.

Well I guess the fact that the bolt open concept has worked up until this match has no bearing on the matter. Matches in several disciplines have been using the bolt back/open method for years, and its worked well. I'm really not trying to be a dick here, but if competitors cannot be safe with their weapons without the use of a chamber flag, they do not need to be shooting a match under any circumstances. This argument is like the argument for gun control. Where do you stop? Hell why not make the competitor take his cleaning rod and shove it down the barrel with a yellow flag on it, or even better, why not take the bolt out of the rifle and make sure its in a separate locked container until he is called to the line. Like fusiachi said, idiots will always find a way. Why should the rest of us be penalized for it? I have seen a melted chamber flag cause a competitor to zero a stage and almost another one until he looked at the end of the flag and saw it was deformed. He had to spend quite a bit of time to make sure he had it all removed from the chamber before he could shoot the rifle again. What do you do if a competitor loses his flag while he's walking to the next stage? Would you DQ him from the match for that? Where would he get another one if he could not find his? These are all issues with chamber flags. I am all about safety, but the extra items you have to carry and the extra time worrying about it is not enough to justify it when the method that almost every other match in the country uses works just fine. As I understand it, this ND in the parking lost would not have been prevented with a chamber flag if the person would have removed it to chamber a round to demonstrate what he was anyway. But hey this is just my .02 and nobody asked my opinion...

Bill

 

[Gil P.]

Even though I don't like them eric I'm not disagreeing with you.

EVERY match or training I hold will require yellow OBI (chamber flags) from now on.

Walk to rhe firing line, Hand it to the RO, Shoot your stage, get the OBI and put it back in your gun. That simple. Never take the OBI from your chamber unless the RO takes it from you just before you shoot!

Done

Very good idea Jake. I was at Score Hi last year and they did exactly what you described. It worked out pretty well. We still had an ND though, a woman (sponsored shooter) was about to begin a stage and "made ready" her rifle and, chambered a round when she wasn't supposed to (before she was in position and before the timer started), pulled the trigger and almost took an RO's head off. Even experienced shooters make mistakes and taking every preventative action possible is a very good idea. I guess its the responsibility of those who aren't shooting, to watch where the shooter is pointing his/her muzzle. Stay alert, stay alive. That's a good one, I ought to write that down.

 

[6.5 GUY]

Hey Jake,

Thank you very much for all the work and effort you put into this years match. I had a great time and enjoyed meeting a lot of new people. I'd like to extend a hugh thanks and appreciation to the RO's for standing/siting throughout a long two days in brutal cold weather for all of us shooting the match. Hats off for there help making this happen and all the sponsor's whom donated a table full of stuff to the shooters.

Wow ..... from the sound of it I guess I missed a lot on day two? Since I was late getting up the hill along with another fellow shooter and never caught up with my squad, which from the sound of it maybe was a good thing? But honestly I really liked shooting with these guys. I did, and would do so again in the future. So thanks George, Josh, Bryan and Brian, Dave, Ryan, and you too Charlie for the extra effort helping me get squared away, and Joe (thanks for hanging out with me and helping through out a long two days). I'm very glad to have met all of you and would be more then happy to do it all over again in a heart beat!

If it's any consolation I got someone else's feathers ruffled by mistake on that stage as well, and he didn't seem to happy about it either. Sometimes shit just happens and it's unfortunate. We all live and learn, no one is perfect, and those that think they are need to be honest with themselves and look in the mirror. Who is without fault anyways?

Kevin Coleman

 

[AR-223]

As someone that was downrange about 15 yrds away form the ND at the 11:00 position loading my gear in the trunk of my car, I have put a lot of thought into this. It really hit me about 3 hours later on the drive home.

I'm with Eric, I am not a huge fan of chamber flags, but I think they could be a good idea. In this instance, the "story" I heard, the chamber flag would not have helped. Me and my shooting partner tried to do a buddy check after each stage. We all get carried away especially after a frustrating stage.

During and after the match there should be NO f-ing with stuff in a NON DESIGNATED safety zone. The parking lot is not one of them.

MD Should set a safety zone in the staging area or parking lot in-case someone needs to screw with gear.

We all make mistakes, and it can happen to anyone....I will be using a chamber flag at all times moving forward even if they are not required.

I have never seen/heard of one melting before, that was one hot barrel.

I must have been pretty close to you too. It was scary enough for me that I used it at my local club's monthly meeting last week as an example of how anyone can screw up.

There is obviously a bit of misinformation out there though, the story I heard was that it came off the hill with one in the chamber, either the extractor didn't grab it or it picked one up off the mag but the bolt was never run home enough for the extractor to grab it. If that's true the ECI would have prevented it. I shoot NRA Highpower & CMP service rifle, and ECI's are required for those disciplines, and I've been to some matches where if you are seen putting it in the case without the ECI in it, they will give you a ration of *@$#% about it. Personally I used my ECI all weekend, one out of habit and two I'm shooting an AR, so my ECI plugs the ejection port and keeps the crud out nicely, and keeps the bolt from closing if I bump the bolt stop while walking between stages (did that several times). I've never had one melt, but I always shorten them so they only reach to just behind the shoulder of the chamber. Just my 2 cents as a highpower guy taking up a new discipline.

Great match Jake, see you next year!

 

[JC Steel]

I was at the New Mexico shoot last year as well

We all used chamber flags and still have a ND. Your right it was only a few feet away from the RO'S face. Very unsafe.

Heres the way I look at it. Even though we are going to always use the chamber flags moving forward.

People will always make mistakes or do dumb things. It's happened since Adam and eve!

Just because a guy or gal has a chamber flag in does not mean they wont have an issue.
At a big match in Florida last year a guy shot himself in the leg.
At the new Mexico match there was an ND
At the Vegas match last year I witnessed another
At the Last Findlay cup l Witnessed 2 AD's.
the number of AD'S or ND's that a professional three gun and pistol shooter told me about its in the hundreds!!!!

I don't think we will ever stop them. What we can do is limit the amount of situations it can happen in to a very low number.

We are going to use the chamber flags just to make the uneasy guys a little happier. It honestly won't make it safer! In my opinion only. Three of the four matches above all required chamber flags.


The more I look at it I realize it's a dangerous sport because we are playing with firearms.

Did evil carnival ever crash?
If you deal with fire you will get burnt. Hopeful not too bad.

Really the only thing we can do is surround ourselves by other like minded shooters that we know are completely safe and have proper firearm safety protocol.

And we need to be very Vigilant of others around us at all times, especially when they have a deadly weapon they are handling. Am I right?

I know I am.

Someone above said it, if the open bolt is not good enough than those people should not have a firearm in their hands ever!!!!

But we are still moving forward with chamber flags!! LOL

I already ordered 200 of them. So they will be in everyone's shooter bags

 

[BGE541]

Is Eric going to bring 200 hairbands? lol

 

[JC Steel]

Great idea, how bout it eric???

 

[Jim the Plumber]

I know we're going back in time a bit, but I was never aware of even 1 let alone 2 ND's at my last match.
Seems that would have filtered down to me, you think?

 

[AtOne]

I think its kind of funny how much resistance there is to adding a chamber flag at a match.

I attended over 16 matches last year and everyone required them including the 2013 JC Steel Challenge match, Findlay Cup, Both FSC matches and all the UNSC ones... yet the moment someone wants to discuss the idea of safety at matches and I bring up whats already been used at countless ones up here its all of a sudden way too difficult to implement or costly or....add any other reason here.

Was going to rant a little more but figured I'd keep it at this.
If anyone want's to bitch at a match up here where chamber flags are used feel free to blame me, I'll be happy to be the guy that pushed a M.D into it, do I care if it pisses you off or you hate me....hell no.
Its a small thing.

And for those who can't find a hair tie on their own PM me and I'll get you a pink one from my daughter, I know she has a few in her drawer.

Or for the M.D that has a pair and wants everyone to look cool with black here you go for $ 6.44 per 100
http://www.dpjwholesale.com/products/copy-of-wholesale-lot-of-100-thick-strong-hair-ties-bands

 

[JC Steel]

I know we're going back in time a bit, but I was never aware of even 1 let alone 2 ND's at my last match.
Seems that would have filtered down to me, you think?

Those are AD'S jim not ND'S. Accidental discharge.

 

[JC Steel]

No resistance here eric! That's what we are doing.

I think its kind of funny how much resistance there is to adding a chamber flag at a match.

I attended over 16 matches last year and everyone required them including the 2013 JC Steel Challenge match, Findlay Cup, Both FSC matches and all the UNSC ones... yet the moment someone wants to discuss the idea of safety at matches and I bring up whats already been used at countless ones up here its all of a sudden way too difficult to implement or costly or....add any other reason here.

Was going to rant a little more but figured I'd keep it at this.
If anyone want's to bitch at a match up here where chamber flags are used feel free to blame me, I'll be happy to be the guy that pushed a M.D into it, do I care if it pisses you off or you hate me....hell no.
Its a small thing.

And for those who can't find a hair tie on their own PM me and I'll get you a pink one from my daughter, I know she has a few in her drawer.

Or for the M.D that has a pair and wants everyone to look cool with black here you go for $ 6.44 per 100
Wholesale Hair Tie Ponytail Holders Thick Black