Sidearms & Scatterguns 2024 shooting goals. Maybe the Pirate will help

[SanPatHogger]

I set some goals for myself for 2023 and surprisingly I hit almost all of them. I shot more than 6 pistol matches, I shot a bunch of 22 rifle matches, I hit a target at a mile. Add on I shot a 2 gun team match, even though I sucked and was totally unprepared I learned a ton, and know what I need to do to prepare for the next one. At the last 22 match I tied for 5th with a guy that is a legit good, also I shot 89% of what the winner shot, I was pretty proud of that.

The goal for 2024 is to shoot pistols good. Maybe run some 2 gun matches. Also would like to go to the rimfire academy at Rifles Only. Maybe sign up for a USPSA membership and go take a range officer class.

The Pirate seems to know whats going on when it comes to USPSA pistol shooting.
So Pirate, what do you suggest? Books, websites, places to read up? Videos, guys to watch and follow? Drills and practice?
A few things I know I need to do is run the timer and draw from a holster and dry fire. Also shooting weak hand. Looking over a stage and being able to know ahead of time where to reload, where to shoot fast and slow, what order to shoot targets in so I can get off the last target fastest and move to the next position...
And loosing a bunch of weight so I move faster...

 

[308pirate]

I set some goals for myself for 2023 and surprisingly I hit almost all of them. I shot more than 6 pistol matches, I shot a bunch of 22 rifle matches, I hit a target at a mile. Add on I shot a 2 gun team match, even though I sucked and was totally unprepared I learned a ton, and know what I need to do to prepare for the next one. At the last 22 match I tied for 5th with a guy that is a legit good, also I shot 89% of what the winner shot, I was pretty proud of that.

The goal for 2024 is to shoot pistols good. Maybe run some 2 gun matches. Also would like to go to the rimfire academy at Rifles Only. Maybe sign up for a USPSA membership and go take a range officer class.

The Pirate seems to know whats going on when it comes to USPSA pistol shooting.
So Pirate, what do you suggest? Books, websites, places to read up? Videos, guys to watch and follow? Drills and practice?
A few things I know I need to do is run the timer and draw from a holster and dry fire. Also shooting weak hand. Looking over a stage and being able to know ahead of time where to reload, where to shoot fast and slow, what order to shoot targets in so I can get off the last target fastest and move to the next position...
And loosing a bunch of weight so I move faster...

I see you.

Give me some time to collect my thoughts.

 

[308pirate]

@SanPatHogger

Let's start with the pistol and how it fits into different USPSA divisions. I want to cover that first because that's the first thing noobs focus on and are sometimes frustrated because their pistol doesn't fit in the division they want to shoot or they buy something completely inappropriate because someone told them it's "good for competition" without knowing shit from shinola.

Production division

• Pistol must be on the USPSA Production Approval List to be legal for this division. https://uspsa.org/productionlist If it's not on this list by make and model, it cannot be used to compete in Production division. No exceptions. If you have a frankenglock assembled on an aftermarket frame (Brownells, PSA, etc) it's not a Glock. If the frame's maker is not listed, you'll have to pick a different division.
• Can only load 10 rounds in the magazines. This will change to 15 effective on January 31, 2024. Cannot use extended magazines (pistol with magazine inserted must fit in a box of a certain size.
• Can make basically unlimited internal mods, but cannot defeat or delete any safeties including firing pin block.
• Can make limited external modifications
• NO MAGWELLS and NO COMPENSATORS allowed in Production
• No optical sights

Carry Optics division

• Pistol must be on the USPSA Production Approval List to be legal for this division. https://uspsa.org/productionlist If it's not on this list by make and model, it cannot be used to compete in Carry Optics division. No exceptions. If you have a frankenglock assembled on an aftermarket frame (Brownells, PSA, etc) it's not a Glock. If the frame's maker is not listed, you'll have to pick a different division.
• Can load magazines full to capacity and can use extended magazines (up to 141.25 mm in length).
• Can make basically unlimited internal mods, but cannot defeat or delete any safeties including firing pin block.
• Can make limited external modifications
• NO MAGWELLS and NO COMPENSATORS allowed in Carry Optics
• Optical sights are required and must be attached to the slide behind the ejection port.

Limited division

• Any pistol of any make/model/frankengun is OK here
• Unlimited internal modifications
• Extended magazines allowed, up to 141.25 mm in length
• Unlimited external modifications with one exception: no compensators allowed.
• No optical sights allowed

Limited Optics division

• Same exact rules as Limited except optical sights are required and must be attached to the slide behind the ejection port.

Open division

• Anything goes
• Extended magazines allowed, up to 170 mm in length
• All pistols with compensators go here, regardless of sights.

Single Stack

• Old school 1911s with minimal mods allowed.

If you have a question about where your pistol would fit send me some pics and a description and I'll let you know.


Just about any holster/belt/mag pouch combination is legal with a few minor exceptions

• NO THIGH/LEG straps allowed unless you're actually a cop or a military member. I know that pisses off the tactibros, but I don't give a fuck. As a USPSA Range Officer I enforce ALL of the rules ALL of the time. It's the only way to make competition fair.
• The back strap of the pistol's grip must be no lower than the top of the belt.
• There are limits to how far off the body the holster can be offset, but I'll leave that detail for you to learn about later.

Editorial comment about the rules. USPSA is a sport, not tactical training. Sports have rules. Some of the rules may seem arbitrary or nonsense, but you will come to learn the reason why. Others ARE arbitrary because the line had to be drawn somewhere. Why can't you take more than 3 steps without dribbling in basketball? Why not 4, or 2? Same shit. Just follow the rules and don't waste your time arguing that it should be this way or that.

 

[308pirate]

How to get better at shooting pistols.

The first step is to admit to yourself that you know nothing and that you are open to learning everything from the ground up.

The second step is to take professional instruction. There's quite a few ways to get it.

• You can pay for a class. I STRONGLY recommend you stay away from no-name local instructors and even big name "tactical" instructors. You want to focus on shooting correctly, not on tactics or legalities or any other bullshit. Hint: most cops suck at shooting. Don't seek them out unless they have other credentials (USPSA Master or Grand Master). People I would take classes from: Mason Lane, Tom Castro, Matt Pranka, Ben Stoeger, Joel Park, Hwansik Kim, JJ Racaza, Tim Herron, Nils Jonasson, Max Michel, Isaac Lockwood, Tyler Meisenheimer. People I have taken classes from: Mason Lane, Matt Pranka, Tim Herron.
• You can join Practical Shooting Training Group and get online coaching, tips, and help. How much you get out of it depends on how much you pay. They have different membership tiers, and the more you pay the more access to trainers you have and the more personalized help you get. My suggestion is start at the lowest tier and soak it all up, then upgrade as you see necessary. I bet as you get better, you will want to get more personalized coaching.
• Get some books that have proven training methodologies. The best are by Ben Stoeger and Joel Park, and this one is their latest and arguably best product: https://benstoegerproshop.com/practical-shooting-training-by-ben-stoeger-joel-park/

There is one shortcut that you can take before you can line up a real training class. Get started shooting USPSA as soon as you're able. As you start going to matches you'll start meeting people who are way better than you. Make the acquaintance with local guys who are classified as Master or Grand Master and ask them for help. You will get it. Tell them you want to start with the very basics (grip, sights, trigger) and your draw. Listen to what they tell you and do it how they show you.

The third step is to dry fire. Dry fire is not limited to cycling the slide and pulling the trigger. That is, in fact, the least important part of it. Dry fire is where you practice everything you've been taught except recoil control. You can get extremely good at drawing quickly and precisely, transitioning from target to target, shooting on the move, reloading, switching the gun from one hand to the other, entering into a position and leaving it efficiently, and more without having to fire a shot or even leave the house.

I want to say this again: ignore anyone whose only claim to competency is that they are SWAT/special forces/scout sniper/whatever cool guy bullshit. If they don't have some sort of record of success as a competitive shooter (having a classification of A, M, or GM as a minimum), they don't have what it takes to teach someone to shoot at the level needed for this.

 

[308pirate]

How to get better at playing the game

This is done almost the same way that you get good at shooting a pistol: professional instruction from top level shooters in the sport, advice from local guys who are very good (A, M and GM class), and training movement in dry fire.

But getting good at the game fundamentally includes playing the game and analyzing your mistakes. This is why many of us video our stages in competition and training: to see inefficiencies and mistakes that we didn't see in the heat of the match. This forms the basis of my training agenda during the season.

Stage planning is one aspect of the game that is probably the hardest to learn because it really can't be taught from books. You have to get out there and do it, and be mentored by someone good. Ben Stoeger does have some good rules/guidelines in his books to organize your stage planning process, but that needs to be put into practice on match day. The division you choose to shoot has some effect in your stage planning too, as your plan will have to be different if you shoot a low capacity division like Production compared to what it would be in an iron sight division with high ammo capacity like Limited.

Let me give you an example of stage planning and video analysis.

In the stage you're going to see in the video below I decided to go right first and deal with everything I could from there, move to the left end of the stage to deal with the targets that are only available from there, then go forward and finish everything else. I could have gone left, fwd, and right, but it would have been more steps and more changes in direction. Based on the amount of ammo in the magazines I could have reloaded while running left or going forward. I decided to reload on my way downrange for two reasons: reloading and running is slower than just running, and reloading while moving left is more awkward for a right hander because you can't angle the pistol the way you normally would and not break the 180 plane (ie pointing the gun uprange, which will get you disqualified from the match). The run from left to right was much longer than the run to the last position downrange and I wanted to be able to sprint without worrying about reloading.

Efficiency and not wasting time are far more important than fast splits. Shooting sooner is much more important to your score than shooting fast. Notice that on the right hand position I have my gun up and ready to shoot while I slow down. I don't come to a stop, raise the gun, and then shoot. If it hadn't been for the wall, I would have shot them before coming to a complete stop. Notice the other close target. I don't shoot it right away. Instead I then transition to the far popper (which activates a swinging target). Instead of shooting the popper, waiting for the swinger to come out, shooting it, then shooting the close target next to me, I shoot the popper, transition very fast to the near target and blast two at it, then swing back around to catch the swinger on its first swing. Again notice how I shoot the first two targets on the left while I'm slowing down instead coming to a stop, raising my gun, then start blasting. At the last position I have some misses on steel but instead of getting bogged down on it, I shoot some easier targets then come back to drop the steel I missed, then swing to the last target and be done.



Things I could have done better

1. I should not have put my right foot on top of the fault line on the right shooting position. As you can see, my foot slipped when I pushed off and I almost face planted. It likely cost me an extra .5 to .75 seconds to unfuck myself and get to top speed.
2. I should have reloaded while stepping forward and then sprinted to the last position. Instead I reloaded in the middle of the run which slowed me down.
3. The entry into the last position was awkward and it left me unbalanced, which contributed to a miss on one of the steel poppers which I then had to make up, costing me another .25 - .35 seconds.

 

[308pirate]

Losing weight and getting fit are also a damned good idea. The match in that video was in early September, about a month after I started a serious weight loss and fitness training program. I've kept putting in the work since then and now I'm almost 20 lbs lighter and noticeably leaner and fitter.

 

[308pirate]

This training methodology is completely different, and incredibly more effective than the dumb drill mentality that permeates the tactical training world.

 

[308pirate]

This sport has a significant mental component. The mental game or mental management is as it's usually refer to.

I strongly recommend that anyone serious about the sport take Steve Anderson's mental management course. It can be done online.

 

[Aftermath]

How to get better at playing the game

This is done almost the same way that you get good at shooting a pistol: professional instruction from top level shooters in the sport, advice from local guys who are very good (A, M and GM class), and training movement in dry fire.

But getting good at the game fundamentally includes playing the game and analyzing your mistakes. This is why many of us video our stages in competition and training: to see inefficiencies and mistakes that we didn't see in the heat of the match. This forms the basis of my training agenda during the season.

Stage planning is one aspect of the game that is probably the hardest to learn because it really can't be taught from books. You have to get out there and do it, and be mentored by someone good. Ben Stoeger does have some good rules/guidelines in his books to organize your stage planning process, but that needs to be put into practice on match day. The division you choose to shoot has some effect in your stage planning too, as your plan will have to be different if you shoot a low capacity division like Production compared to what it would be in an iron sight division with high ammo capacity like Limited.

Let me give you an example of stage planning and video analysis.

In the stage you're going to see in the video below I decided to go right first and deal with everything I could from there, move to the left end of the stage to deal with the targets that are only available from there, then go forward and finish everything else. I could have gone left, fwd, and right, but it would have been more steps and more changes in direction. Based on the amount of ammo in the magazines I could have reloaded while running left or going forward. I decided to reload on my way downrange for two reasons: reloading and running is slower than just running, and reloading while moving left is more awkward for a right hander because you can't angle the pistol the way you normally would and not break the 180 plane (ie pointing the gun uprange, which will get you disqualified from the match). The run from left to right was much longer than the run to the last position downrange and I wanted to be able to sprint without worrying about reloading.

Efficiency and not wasting time are far more important than fast splits. Shooting sooner is much more important to your score than shooting fast. Notice that on the right hand position I have my gun up and ready to shoot while I slow down. I don't come to a stop, raise the gun, and then shoot. If it hadn't been for the wall, I would have shot them before coming to a complete stop. Notice the other close target. I don't shoot it right away. Instead I then transition to the far popper (which activates a swinging target). Instead of shooting the popper, waiting for the swinger to come out, shooting it, then shooting the close target next to me, I shoot the popper, transition very fast to the near target and blast two at it, then swing back around to catch the swinger on its first swing. Again notice how I shoot the first two targets on the left while I'm slowing down instead coming to a stop, raising my gun, then start blasting. At the last position I have some misses on steel but instead of getting bogged down on it, I shoot some easier targets then come back to drop the steel I missed, then swing to the last target and be done.



Things I could have done better

1. I should not have put my right foot on top of the fault line on the right shooting position. As you can see, my foot slipped when I pushed off and I almost face planted. It likely cost me an extra .5 to .75 seconds to unfuck myself and get to top speed.
2. I should have reloaded while stepping forward and then sprinted to the last position. Instead I reloaded in the middle of the run which slowed me down.
3. The entry into the last position was awkward and it left me unbalanced, which contributed to a miss on one of the steel poppers which I then had to make up, costing me another .25 - .35 seconds.

Do the pink shorts help you in any way? Maybe as a distraction for the competition? Making points with a particular judge?

Just messing with you. I put this thread on my watch list. I'm always open to learning new stuff. Even from guys in pink shorts trying to lose weight.

 

[SanPatHogger]

I know a guy who was a Grand Master USPSA shooter years ago. He's older now and runs a little place building race guns. I'm going to hit him up and see what it will take to get some range time with him. When I shoot the 22 match in Goliad I squad up with a bunch of older guys, if he's there he usually has some good advice and will talk to you about what your'e doing wrong. He's also shot the indoor USPSA night match that I go to sometimes, but the guy who runs that match got a back injury so it's been a couple months without that one.
I shot the Coastal Bend Shooters USPSA match and shot their 2 gun team match last weekend. The guy who runs that one says he's going for surgery in the next few months so that one may not happen either. He's looking for help running it. Thats also why I was thinking about taking a class to be a certified RO. Seems like all the guys who run this stuff are getting older and matches are not as frequent.
I'm not sure exactly what my goals are, I just want to shoot better and faster. I just looked it up, I run 43-45% of what the winner shoots at the couple matches I shot this year. Some of the guys there are really good, Maybe with some practice/trainng and learning how to run a stage efficiently I could run 75-80%. I think that would be pretty good.
My "Carry Optics" gun is a Polymer 80 G17. You've seen pictures of it. It's not on the list so I'll just shoot it in Limited Optics.
My other gun is a stock Taurus 92. I shot it in Limited class. I've got two 17 and two 20 round mags for it. I guess I could get some 15 round mags and run it in the production class, but the class doesn't mean much to me.
Anyway, 2024 is going to be a pistol year for me. 2 guns, 4,000+ rounds of ammo in 9mm. Plus a 1911 22 and thousands of rounds for that too. I'm still going to shoot the rifles, but I'm doubling down on pistols.

 

[308pirate]

Do the pink shorts help you in any way? Maybe as a distraction for the competition? Making points with a particular judge?

Just messing with you. I put this thread on my watch list. I'm always open to learning new stuff. Even from guys in pink shorts trying to lose weight.

It's for the ladies. They like how they fit front and back.

 

[308pirate]

I know a guy who was a Grand Master USPSA shooter years ago. He's older now and runs a little place building race guns. I'm going to hit him up and see what it will take to get some range time with him. When I shoot the 22 match in Goliad I squad up with a bunch of older guys, if he's there he usually has some good advice and will talk to you about what your'e doing wrong. He's also shot the indoor USPSA night match that I go to sometimes, but the guy who runs that match got a back injury so it's been a couple months without that one.
I shot the Coastal Bend Shooters USPSA match and shot their 2 gun team match last weekend. The guy who runs that one says he's going for surgery in the next few months so that one may not happen either. He's looking for help running it. Thats also why I was thinking about taking a class to be a certified RO. Seems like all the guys who run this stuff are getting older and matches are not as frequent.
I'm not sure exactly what my goals are, I just want to shoot better and faster. I just looked it up, I run 43-45% of what the winner shoots at the couple matches I shot this year. Some of the guys there are really good, Maybe with some practice/trainng and learning how to run a stage efficiently I could run 75-80%. I think that would be pretty good.
My "Carry Optics" gun is a Polymer 80 G17. You've seen pictures of it. It's not on the list so I'll just shoot it in Limited Optics.
My other gun is a stock Taurus 92. I shot it in Limited class. I've got two 17 and two 20 round mags for it. I guess I could get some 15 round mags and run it in the production class, but the class doesn't mean much to me.
Anyway, 2024 is going to be a pistol year for me. 2 guns, 4,000+ rounds of ammo in 9mm. Plus a 1911 22 and thousands of rounds for that too. I'm still going to shoot the rifles, but I'm doubling down on pistols.

Right on

Make sure you make an account in practiscore.com then start finding clubs and matches near you. When you find a club in practiscore that you think is close enough to go for matches, click the follow button on its practiscore page. That will load their matches in your calender and in your "find events" tabs

BTW don't think that a heavy pistol is needed to go fast. Light (less than 30 oz) polymer pistols get it done. In fact, I'm kinda over the heavy-ass Shadow 2.

CZ P-10F with Trijicon SRO

 

[308pirate]

Anyway, 2024 is going to be a pistol year for me. 2 guns, 4,000+ rounds of ammo in 9mm. Plus a 1911 22 and thousands of rounds for that too. I'm still going to shoot the rifles, but I'm doubling down on pistols.

I highly recommend you pick only one pistol and stick to it for the entire year. You will slow down your progress if bounce around different pistols early on.

Ask me how I know.

I figured you're somewhere in the Corpus Christi area. Here's the clubs I found with recent match activity:

• https://practiscore.com/clubs/river-city-shooters-club San Antonio
• https://practiscore.com/clubs/apsc-1 Austin
• https://practiscore.com/clubs/coastal-bend-shooters-gc08 Corpus

 

[SanPatHogger]

I highly recommend you pick only one pistol and stick to it for the entire year. You will slow down your progress if bounce around different pistols early on.

Ask me how I know.

I figured you're somewhere in the Corpus Christi area. Here's the clubs I found with recent match activity:

• https://practiscore.com/clubs/river-city-shooters-club San Antonio
• https://practiscore.com/clubs/apsc-1 Austin
• https://practiscore.com/clubs/coastal-bend-shooters-gc08 Corpus

I'll run the fake glock. Your 3rd link is one of the matches I've run before. Thats the guy that is asking for help running matches. Says he's been doing it since 1995.
Austin is a little far to drive for a match. San Antonio is a little over an hour and a half, so I'll get up there but probably not too often.
The guy who runs the indoor match has invited me a few times to go shoot in Cuero with him. I've been looking forward to going for a while now, but I will be making it a point to go.
And yes I'm near Corpus. I'm a member of the Corpus Christi gun club. It would be cool if I could find a few guys to get together on a Saturday afternoon and we set up our own little match and run some drills. I've got 5 pretty nice target stands and a mountain of cardboard, I draw my own A zone on them and I've got around 5 plastic barrels.
I've got a neighbor that I help out with the cows and fences, He lets me shoot on his 600 acres. I've got a little spot set up that we shoot 22 PRS style stuff and we shoot pistols on occasion. I don't have permission to have a match there but I have a couple friends over and we've runs some small stuff. My buddy who comes over almost every saturday night is into shooting whatever I am doing. We are either looking for pigs or tearing up cardboard and steel plates. He's got kids and is a good dad who spends time with them so shooting at night mafter they go to bed is easiest for him.

 

[308pirate]

I'll run the fake glock. Your 3rd link is one of the matches I've run before. Thats the guy that is asking for help running matches. Says he's been doing it since 1995.
Austin is a little far to drive for a match. San Antonio is a little over an hour and a half, so I'll get up there but probably not too often.
The guy who runs the indoor match has invited me a few times to go shoot in Cuero with him. I've been looking forward to going for a while now, but I will be making it a point to go.
And yes I'm near Corpus. I'm a member of the Corpus Christi gun club. It would be cool if I could find a few guys to get together on a Saturday afternoon and we set up our own little match and run some drills. I've got 5 pretty nice target stands and a mountain of cardboard, I draw my own A zone on them and I've got around 5 plastic barrels.
I've got a neighbor that I help out with the cows and fences, He lets me shoot on his 600 acres. I've got a little spot set up that we shoot 22 PRS style stuff and we shoot pistols on occasion. I don't have permission to have a match there but I have a couple friends over and we've runs some small stuff. My buddy who comes over almost every saturday night is into shooting whatever I am doing. We are either looking for pigs or tearing up cardboard and steel plates. He's got kids and is a good dad who spends time with them so shooting at night mafter they go to bed is easiest for him.

Get this book/package also and put what's in it into practice: https://benstoegerproshop.com/dryfi...ol-shooter-paperback-book-and-scaled-targets/

Trust me, dry fire (when done correctly) WORKS. The basic premise is this:

1. You learn and practice a skill (draw, reload, transitions, etc) in dry fire
2. You repeat how you did it dry at the range. Analyze how it went
3. You go back to dry fire to fix whatever you were doing that didn't pan out in live fire
4. Wash rinse repeat

Dry fire means that you can put in SO many more reps into building a skill compared to how many you can do in live fire and it costs nothing but a little bit of your time.

When you do go shooting, ALWAYS have a plan of what you're going to do and what you're going to work on when you get there.

Be methodical and disciplined and you'll be amazed at your progress.

 

[ECK]

The USPSA RO class is about becoming a NROI certified range officer, not so much about shooting. The main focus is on the rulebook and how to run shooters on a stage. It does have a shooting component, but the emphasis is more on how well you can run the timer and tablet than your shooting ability. That said, if your intent is to learn the rules of the game, the RO class is a good one to take.

However, you need to be a USPSA member and be classified (D up to GM). That usually means you need to have shot at least four matches to earn your first classification unless you can find a special classifier match that some clubs put on that consist of 4-6 classifier stages.

 

[SanPatHogger]

The USPSA RO class is about becoming a NROI certified range officer, not so much about shooting. The main focus is on the rulebook and how to run shooters on a stage. It does have a shooting component, but the emphasis is more on how well you can run the timer and tablet than your shooting ability. That said, if your intent is to learn the rules of the game, the RO class is a good one to take.

However, you need to be a USPSA member and be classified (D up to GM). That usually means you need to have shot at least four matches to earn your first classification unless you can find a special classifier match that some clubs put on that consist of 4-6 classifier stages.

Part of wanting to get RO certified would be to help put on a match. The 2 guys doing this are getting older and if they go away then I have to drive a longer time to go shoot. The night match is literally 5 minuted form where I work and I show up early and help set up anyway. The Outdoor match is about 45 minutes away, I go Saturday after work to help set up and then go back Sunday morning to shoot. The outdoor match does have a classifier match every once in a while, that was the first one I shot. I'll sign up and get a USPSA membership.

 

[308pirate]

Part of wanting to get RO certified would be to help put on a match.

That's awesome. Good on ya

Learning how to design stages is an art form in and of itself, that can't really be taught. The only way to learn is to get in there and learn from those who do it. Even so, there's a bunch of help on line in the form of stage designs already done, stage design software, stage design kits, and just general knowledge.

This place is a good resource: https://forums.brianenos.com/

 

[ECK]

Sounds like your goal is to become gooder at shooting a pistol. Cool, nothing wrong with that. Advice given above is all good.

My $.02:

• Getting gooder takes practice. First time you had sex, we’re you any good? -on behalf of your partner, let me answer that one for you: NO you were not, but you wanted to do it again, right? So practice. A lot.
• Most of us don’t have an unlimited budget so we can‘t shoot several hundred rounds a day 5 days a week (would be nice). Daily dry-fire with periodic live-fire sessions to confirm what we’re doing in dry-fire is the accepted method. Some people go way over the top with dry-fire to the extent they setup ‘stages’ in their backyard or basement. Me, I have one room with a bunch of 1/3 size USPSA/IPSC targets thumb tacked to various walls and spend about 15-20 mins each day (or I try to) doing basic drills. Add some movement, a lot of reloads, etc. to get the fundamentals down.
• I wouldn’t let the lack of 1/3 targets stop you from dry-firing. Use a light switch, post it notes, pictures on the wall, etc. as your targets.
• There are a few books on dry-fire training. Steve Anderson’s or Ben Stoeger’s are the popular ones. But after a while you’ll ditch the books and work on drills that you make up or simulate something that you screwed up at your last match.
• Misery loves company, so finding a shooting buddy or three is a good idea for your periodic live-fire range sessions. Plus they can help encourage, motivate you, and keep you honest about your practice sessions.
• Video your stage runs and watch them during the week. The videos will point out where you screwed up or need to work on something. If you get really down into the rabbit hole, video some of the better shooters on the same stage and compare their runs to yours to see how much better they moved thru the stage than you did.
• Speed vs accuracy: several schools of thought on this one. On one hand, the only way to get accustomed to being fast is to shoot/move balls-out light-speed fast. But if your accuracy falls off, then your HF will suck ballz as a result. My approach has always been accuracy first and speed will come. So I tend to shoot a little slower (splits in the .25-.3 range) on any target that is >7 yds, but I try to do everything else at warp speed (transitions, movement, reloads…). Fast splits look and sound good on Instagram, but D-zone hits or Misses suck (and hardly anybody posts scores on Instagram)
• We’ve talked about Bill Drills in another thread: Do them. The next biggest break-thru in your pistol shooting is learning to track your front sight/dot thru recoil and transitions. Once you can do that, you can then depress the trigger again once the gun has settled back on target. Except for targets <5 yds, it’s not “one sight-picture send two shots”, it is “one sight picture for EACH shot” if you want to hit what you’re aiming at.
• Gear: IMO a light trigger press and gear matters more when you’re beginning than later on in your career. For example, Nils Jonassen can shoot a 4-ish lb crappy trigger in a stock Canik better than a D-class shooter can shoot a finely tuned <1.5 lb 2011 trigger. But that’s because Nils has shot a metric shit ton of rounds and practices more than most people will do in a life time. But that being said, there’s something about a gun that is tuned to your particular load, so experiment with different weight recoil springs when shooting Bill Drills and you’ll probably find a weight that gives better results. Ditto on sights or dot size, we’re all different, so pick the color and size of dot that you shoot better Bill Drills. Let the target and timer tell you which one is better, not people on the internet.

Good luck on your 2024 goals

 

[ECK]

Part of wanting to get RO certified would be to help put on a match. The 2 guys doing this are getting older and if they go away then I have to drive a longer time to go shoot. The night match is literally 5 minuted form where I work and I show up early and help set up anyway. The Outdoor match is about 45 minutes away, I go Saturday after work to help set up and then go back Sunday morning to shoot. The outdoor match does have a classifier match every once in a while, that was the first one I shot. I'll sign up and get a USPSA membership.

Good on ya, I started shooting USPSA in 2008, within the first few months I was taking turns running the timer/score pad (we used paper score sheets back then) and helping setup/tear down at every match. A year later, I took the RO class since I figured if I was running the timer I might as well become certified. Shortly thereafter I started designing stages, MD-ing matches, and giving back to the club with sweat-equity. I even shot IDPA on the weekend there weren‘t any USPSA matches.

Learning the rules will help you as a competitor to know what you can/cannot do, how to avoid DQ’s and procedurals, and even push-back when somebody else makes the wrong call. Plus its a volunteer sport, so somebody has to step up and do it…

However based on my experience, I would recommend shooting six months to a year’s worth of matches and maybe even a Lvl 2 or 3 match before attending an RO class. You’ll get more out of the class with more context of the sport under your belt. The class is 1.5 days: Day 1 is all classroom, Day 2 is live-fire ex on the range where you practice running other students thru a couple stages.

 

[308pirate]

However based on my experience, I would recommend shooting six months to a year’s worth of matches and maybe even a Lvl 2 or 3 match before attending an RO class. You’ll get more out of the class with more context of the sport under your belt. The class is 1.5 days: Day 1 is all classroom, Day 2 is live-fire ex on the range where you practice running other students thru a couple stages.

@SanPatHogger 100% agree with ECK here. You can most definitely volunteer to start helping staff your local match right away without the RO class/cert.

 

[308pirate]

• Speed vs accuracy: several schools of thought on this one. On one hand, the only way to get accustomed to being fast is to shoot/move balls-out light-speed fast. But if your accuracy falls off, then your HF will suck ballz as a result. My approach has always been accuracy first and speed will come. So I tend to shoot a little slower (splits in the .25-.3 range) on any target that is >7 yds, but I try to do everything else at warp speed (transitions, movement, reloads…). Fast splits look and sound good on Instagram, but D-zone hits or Misses suck (and hardly anybody posts scores on Instagram)

I'm in the "push speed early on" camp. Once someone has the basics of shooting a pistol in slow fire accuracy, it's time to stop focusing on slow fire accuracy and put the hammer down on speed. Is the accuracy going to fall apart initially when pushing speed? Yea of course, but that is exactly what you want to start figuring out how to grip the pistol and how to press the trigger so you can run as fast as possible within the acceptable accuracy requirements of a particular target. I'm a huge proponent of shooting at the speed of sight (of how fast you can see an acceptable sight picture) and there is simply no other way to train your eyes (aka brain) to see fast other than to shoot fast.

One of my shooting partners is a former state trooper who spent 14 years in the state patrol's swat team. When he first started uspsa his accuracy was phenomenal but he was slow as fuck because it had been burned in his brain an extreme level of shot accountability. He could not free himself from that to shoot the a zone as fast as possible for a long time. It took him almost 3 years in the sport to finally start speeding up to where he needed to be.

• We’ve talked about Bill Drills in another thread: Do them. The next biggest break-thru in your pistol shooting is learning to track your front sight/dot thru recoil and transitions. Once you can do that, you can then depress the trigger again once the gun has settled back on target. Except for targets <5 yds, it’s not “one sight-picture send two shots”, it is “one sight picture for EACH shot” if you want to hit what you’re aiming at.

Speaking of shooting at the speed of sight.......I agree that bill drills are extremely useful but not at the beginning. There is just too much going on for a noob to get much out of it other than burning through a lot of ammo fast. I think that doubles (as explained by Stoeger) is a much more productive drill if you do it correctly. You can burn a lot of ammo doing doubles too, but if you do the drill correctly you can learn from it much more (and more quickly) than you can in bill drills. Once you're in the B class level and above bill drills become a really good diagnostic tool because your mind can see and feel what's going on in real time. Less experience than that, maybe maybe not.

On the subject of predictive shooting (one sight picture send two shots).....my goal is to keep increasing skill to the point where every target I encounter, no matter the distance and difficulty, can be shot predictively. Am I there yet? Fuck no. Is that how I shoot in match mode? Hell no. Is that what I work on the most in live fire training? Absolutely. Right now I can shoot predictively on tight partials out to ten yards and wide open target out to 15 or maybe a little longer. Sometimes I shoot doubles at stupid distances like 40 - 50 yards. I surprised myself when I learned that if you let your splits match the distance (ex. .5 splits at 50 yards) and your grip is legit you can pretty much guarantee at least 50% As and 50% Cs at worst.

Reactive shooting (reacting to every sight picture) is also something that needs work because obviously it guarantees As as fast as you can shoot them.

• Gear: IMO a light trigger press and gear matters more when you’re beginning than later on in your career. For example, Nils Jonassen can shoot a 4-ish lb crappy trigger in a stock Canik better than a D-class shooter can shoot a finely tuned <1.5 lb 2011 trigger. But that’s because Nils has shot a metric shit ton of rounds and practices more than most people will do in a life time. But that being said, there’s something about a gun that is tuned to your particular load, so experiment with different weight recoil springs when shooting Bill Drills and you’ll probably find a weight that gives better results. Ditto on sights or dot size, we’re all different, so pick the color and size of dot that you shoot better Bill Drills. Let the target and timer tell you which one is better, not people on the internet.

Trigger: as long as it's not stupid heavy or gritty that's good enough
Recoil spring tuning: that's more of an advanced skill. If you don't have the grip and trigger press sorted out, it's going to be really tough to read the target and know what it's telling you.

 

[JoshPutman]

This is a great thread.

 

[SanPatHogger]

This is a great thread.

Yes. Maybe there should be a pistol shooting/competition section?

 

[ECK]

Yes. Maybe there should be a pistol shooting/competition section?

It’s called the Brian Enos forum or even Pistol-Forum.com forum. Those guys go way deeper into pistol shooting skills. Not that I mind talking about pistol shooting, I come here for rifle stuff.

 

[308pirate]

or even Pistol-Forum.com forum.

LOL 95% of the people there are barely C class. The cops are the most amusing ones. The high point of that place was when Stoeger was trolling them.

And there hasn't been a substantive discussion about shooting at benos in nearly a decade

 

[hlee]

LOL 95% of the people there are barely C class. The cops are the most amusing ones. The high point of that place was when Stoeger was trolling them.

And there hasn't been a substantive discussion about shooting at benos in nearly a decade

I have shot exactly 1 USPSA match but just cannot not watch Stoeger’s USPSA updates on YouTube. It’s like Days of Our Lives for guys that shoot.

 

[308pirate]

I have shot exactly 1 USPSA match but just cannot not watch Stoeger’s USPSA updates on YouTube. It’s like Days of Our Lives for guys that shoot.

He's the only one with the balls to expose EVERYTHING. People who ignore him are perpetuating the corrupt MFs running the organization. The most guilty are the people running the brian enos forum who squelch any discussion related to USPSA politics post haste.

It's been that way since the early teens when everything got swept under the rug until he started the doodie forum. Anyone who knows who Paul Hendrix is, knows.

 

[Csafisher]

I know a guy who was a Grand Master USPSA shooter years ago. He's older now and runs a little place building race guns. I'm going to hit him up and see what it will take to get some range time with him. When I shoot the 22 match in Goliad I squad up with a bunch of older guys, if he's there he usually has some good advice and will talk to you about what your'e doing wrong. He's also shot the indoor USPSA night match that I go to sometimes, but the guy who runs that match got a back injury so it's been a couple months without that one.

That dude talks the talk, I’m not sure he walks the walk……

Have you been shooting the Texas carbine pistol/rifle matches?

 

[SanPatHogger]

That dude talks the talk, I’m not sure he walks the walk……

Have you been shooting the Texas carbine pistol/rifle matches?

He's kind of older now, time takes it's toll on everyone. He seems like a really good guy to me. Him and all those guys who squad together have always given me good advice and are quick to hand you a shooting bag or offer some type of help.

I shot Texas Carbine one time, January 2020. It was a good time. Problem is it was an all day deal, plus helping setup Saturday afternoon. But they do have 2 gun matches, which is another thing I'd like to do a little more of. A eat breakfast on Sunday mornngs with a couple guys who are really good friends with the owner of Texas Carbine. I'm friendly with him.

 

[SanPatHogger]

That dude talks the talk, I’m not sure he walks the walk……

Have you been shooting the Texas carbine pistol/rifle matches?

Are you a member of the gun club? Want to kill some cardboard? We've probably met at a match somewhere. I seem to remember messaging you before.

 

[SanPatHogger]

He's the only one with the balls to expose EVERYTHING. People who ignore him are perpetuating the corrupt MFs running the organization. The most guilty are the people running the brian enos forum who squelch any discussion related to USPSA politics post haste.

It's been that way since the early teens when everything got swept under the rug until he started the doodie forum. Anyone who knows who Paul Hendrix is, knows.

Most of the matches around here are outlaw matches. The indoor match uses USPSA scoring but is pretty lax on the actual rules. I was running a nylon holster with a thigh strap, nobody cared. I build an AR9 pistol, then put a longer barrel and a stock on it so it would be legal as a PCC. I showed up with it and squaded with a guy who brought an MP5 with a can on it. Nobody said anything. Just a handfull of good guys blasting cardboard. There are a couple guys who show up and you can tell they shoot a LOT. I remember we shot one stage twice, once left to right and then again but right to left. My right to left felt smooth, fast, nailed my reload, hit almost all As. I felt like a badass on that one. Seem to remember I did it in 16 or so seconds. Another guy shot the same number of As.... but did it in 9 seconds...

I've heard about the politics and BS that goes on with USPSA and PRS and kind of don't want to get involved with any of that stuff. I just want to shoot and have a good time with good people. I totally understand following the rules in a sanctioned USPSA match that actually means something as far as scoring and rankings.

 

[308pirate]

I've heard about the politics and BS that goes on with USPSA. I totally understand following the rules in a sanctioned USPSA match that actually means something as far as scoring and rankings.

Here's a secret: none of the bullshit infecting the USPSA at the top has any bearing or affects the enjoyment we get out of level 1 and level 2 matches. NONE. Nobody talks about it because we're too busy enjoying ourselves.

DO NOT let that stop you from getting involved locally.

I'll give you my opinion of outlaw matches. I don't waste my time, money, and ammo on any of them. I am a competitor and I am there to both have a good time AND enjoy fair competition. I cannot enjoy fair competition when the rules are known to a few locals who change them at their whim.

When I go to USPSA sanctioned matches I know what to expect and how to handle things if they're not being done on the up and up. Every single USPSA sanctioned match I have ever gone to, from the local monthly club matches to the level 3 Area matches, have been extremely fun because I know things will be fair.

In USPSA you're going to find some people who seem aloof at times, that's because as our turn gets close we close off away from everyone to visualize what we're going to do. Once we're done with the stage we go back to bullshitting and trash talking as normal. It's just the way it is.

 

[Downzero]

I'm glad I clicked on this thread. I'm sitting here on Christmas Eve working on my rifles and thinking about my rifle goals for 2024. After 15+ years of shooting USPSA, I gave up my membership last summer because it seems pretty likely that the people at the top (some of which I considered friends!) are stealing money from the members and running the sport into the ground. As such, I'm focusing on other types of shooting now and I left USPSA behind.

FWIW, USPSA's rules do not use the term "sanctioned match." I think IDPA does but don't quote me on that. Matches are either USPSA or they are not. There are different levels of USPSA matches and certain rules are relaxed at the level I match, but in some sense "all" USPSA matches are sanctioned matches, since clubs must follow their rules or they cannot put on USPSA matches. I guess technically there is a section in the rule book allowing "local" matches, e.g., some clubs tried prohibiting people from pointing their guns over the berm during a stage, and USPSA (rightfully in my book) told them thanks for trying the process but hell no we're not going to allow you to enforce that rule locally. I have actually never heard of a club getting approved to enforce a local rule. Point being: if you want to put on USPSA matches, you have to follow their rules, regardless of the level of match you're putting on.

 

[308pirate]

FWIW, USPSA's rules do not use the term "sanctioned match." Matches are either USPSA or they are not.

Correct. I only use the term with people who aren't familiar so that they understand that I'm talking about not outlaw matches.

 

[308pirate]

I gave up my membership last summer because it seems pretty likely that the people at the top (some of which I considered friends!) are stealing money from the members and running the sport into the ground.

I've thought about that but I love to play the game too much

 

[Csafisher]

Are you a member of the gun club? Want to kill some cardboard? We've probably met at a match somewhere. I seem to remember messaging you before.

Yes. I’m sure we have. Have a newborn at home so I’m not shooting as much this year. Probably just a few PRS matches and chicken creek stuff.

 

[308pirate]

Pistol-Forum.com

The RDS section is just pure mental retardation

 

[JoshPutman]

@308pirate can you recommend a good pistol forum?

One with a minimal amount of dipshittery?

 

[308pirate]

@308pirate can you recommend a good pistol forum?

One with a minimal amount of dipshittery?

The two that have been mentioned already fall short in significant ways. Also forget retarded tactical circle jerks like Lightfigther.net, m4carbine.net, arfcom, or anything else remotely tactical/LE focused.

This is the only place where I would go if you're serious: https://www.practicalshootingtraininggroup.com/forums/

Yes, you have to pay actual money to even browse, but that is what keeps the bullshit and the retards out.

 

[308pirate]

@308pirate can you recommend a good pistol forum?

One with a minimal amount of dipshittery?

Let me give you an example of the mental retardation on the internet and why you want to be in a forum that filters that shit out

This video is Tyler Meisenheimer explaning how he draws lightning fast using something called a scoop draw. Meisenheimer is one of the absolute best shooters in USPSA today. He is phenomenally fast and accurate.


But despite the man's insane skill, read the comment that some turd-brain nobody left for him

Left hand is doing way to much work for nothing to gain. Doesn't need to move till you " punch out".... hold it higher & out some- it can help drive your gun out. All that other movement is completely unnecessary.

Right.......some rando nobody is going to give advice to a man who can shoot like this

 

[gigamortis]

Let me give you an example of the mental retardation on the internet and why you want to be in a forum that filters that shit out

This video is Tyler Meisenheimer explaning how he draws lightning fast using something called a scoop draw. Meisenheimer is one of the absolute best shooters in USPSA today. He is phenomenally fast and accurate.


But despite the man's insane skill, read the comment that some turd-brain nobody left for him


Right.......some rando nobody is going to give advice to a man who can shoot like this

I've seen Tyler's accuracy and speed in person at a few upstate SC matches. Simply phenomenal. One match we both had about equal "A" hits for the match, but his raw time was half mine. He was shooting CO, while I was shooting Limited Minor iron sights, but to see my raw time cut in half by him was very humbling indeed.

 

[Downzero]

I've thought about that but I love to play the game too much

I didn't say it was an easy decision, but I'm focusing on other things.

 

[stefan73]

I think next years plans are to attend more 2 gun run and gun biathlon type events (for an old broke dude I did pretty good IMO for the last one I did). I think I might try Carry optics and maybe I'll buy a limited optics pistol? We'll see on that.

I'll keep playing with Limited, Single Stack and PCC. Also run the Vol Mamba and 15-22 for Steel Challange. I'll probably also continue to do some 22lr matches, and the occassional "3 gun" match.

So far the local "Outlaw" matches run in both PCS-L formats https://www.pcsleague.com/ and USPSA formats which is where I primarily shoot. I have also shot at Bossier LA, Orange TX and Texarkana TX Gun Club (End of Year Bang and Clang around 200 pieces of steel that I am shooting tomorrow).

Practice score is your friend https://practiscore.com/

This USPSA debacle is something else. We'll see what happens.

I'm done rambling.

 

[Oldguy03]

I adore this wonderful thread. It's true that this sport requires a lot of mental strength.

 

[gigamortis]

I adore this wonderful thread. It's true that this sport requires a lot of mental strength.

For most folks just getting into the shooting sports, it all seems like a lot to keep up with on the mental side at first. One of the biggest mental energy hogs early on is avoiding getting DQed for breaking a safety rule. Shoot enough matches and the safety side of things will run on autopilot. That will free up mental energy to concentrate more on shooting and marksmanship. Once you get to where your marksmanship has grown to where you can confidently call your shots, that will free up even more mental energy that can be devoted to stage planning.

 

[308pirate]

Shoot enough matches and the safety side of things will run on autopilot.

No. Work on your movement in dry fire often and consistently and everything will run on autopilot sooner than it would ever happen IF you relied only on matches and live fire to learn.

The people who rely only on matches and live fire to get good at this never progress beyond C class.

The same goes for mastering red dots on pistols. Those who think it takes thousands of rounds to be effective with an RDS are wrong.

 

[308pirate]

Once you get to where your marksmanship has grown to where you can confidently call your shots, that will free up even more mental energy that can be devoted to stage planning.

While that is true there are other things that need to start running with little thought so that you can execute your plan well:

• weapon manipulations
• movement skills

 

[Gustav7]

@308pirate can you recommend a good pistol forum?

One with a minimal amount of dipshittery?

Even though this is not a pistol based forum, there’s quite a few good shooters on here that I’ve seen give great advice. I know @308pirate is always willing to give advice and I can as well. We’ve shot multiple state and area championships. The carry optics national event is in our area.

One of the best pieces of advice is you need to TRY and listen to anything an experienced and credentialed instructor or shooter says. But at the end of the day you need to adapt to what gives you results. I’ve been to 4+ quality instructors and have taken bits from each. Plus all the A’s, M’s and GM’s I’ve picked things up from at matches.

 

[Downzero]

No. Work on your movement in dry fire often and consistently and everything will run on autopilot sooner than it would ever happen IF you relied only on matches and live fire to learn.

The people who rely only on matches and live fire to get good at this never progress beyond C class.

The same goes for mastering red dots on pistols. Those who think it takes thousands of rounds to be effective with an RDS are wrong.

I got to something like 72%, just shy of A class, without much dry firing. I found it boring and couldn't put in the time. I probably just didn't want it bad enough.

As to dots on pistols, I find it hard to believe that'll ever grow on me. I'm 40 years old and I don't want to learn something that different. But I guess if I ever go back, I'll have to, since sights are dinosaurs now.