22-284 project, loading data

[bohem]

My dad and I were kicking around some ideas for a very hot wildcat and he ran across a reamer on ebay for a 22-284. I picked it up on the chance that it's a viable project and we were looking at some forums that had loading info on it.

The experience that seemed to be out there was gleaned during the late 70's and early 80's and it had a nasty reputation for destroying barrels. We were wondering if by using some of the slow magnum powders that are out there like Retumbo (just a thought, I have no experience with it) if we could get some really good velocities out of the thing without the really hot temps that are a big contributor to throat erosion.

I'm sure there's someone on here that has experience with this caliber, I'm open to hearing about it.

 

[our gang]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

 

[Cheyenne19]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

I've got a 22-243AI. It's a bit slower than the 22-284. I run 90gr bergers over RL22 at 3500. It won't live very long but it sure does cheat the wind. Mike Bryant smithed it. He's got a reamer for the standard 22-243. I suggest talking with him if you're interested in a hot 22.

 

[dksd39]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

I have a 22-284 and it is alot of fun. I use RL-22 and push 55gr Hornady V-max at 4100 rather easily. I have also been able to use the 55gr Bergers. There are not very many bullets to choose from as many will explode upon leaving the barrel. Rather interesting to see a bullet come apart

My barrel is 28" with 1-12 twist. As for barrel life- I only shoot 3 rounds at a time. It is amazing how fast and how hot it will get. Keeping any barel cool extends its life.
I do not think retumbo would be very effective as there is no way you could get a good burn.

 

[dksd39]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

here is one of my AR500 plates after I hit it with the 22-284

here is a 22-284 next to a 308

 

[bohem]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

Awesome gentlemen, thank you very much for the information. I'm very excited.

Mr H, that's a nice looking animal you have there. DK, those 2 pictures really sold me on it.

I was considering a 22-06 since I have so much 06 brass laying around, but I ended up buying the necessary equipment to build a 6.5-06 already and I think a 22-284 (since I now have a reamer on the way) is going to be my route. Just to keep things interesting.


Would either of you be willing to share some starting loads with me? Thanks again.

 

[our gang]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

In the 22-06 I use 58-60 gr of H869, CCI or Federal magnum primers with the 70 Barnes, 75 Swift (varmints only) or 80 SMK (paper or steel only). My twist is 1 in 8.
THIS MAY IN NO WAY BE APPLICABLE TO ANY OTHER 22-06 OR 22-284!!!!
You will want to carefully measure your reamers neck OD as you will have to match your brass to that to get enough room for the bullet to exit, while still providing proper neck tension. I can only use Winchester 25-06 brass and use the Redding neck bushing insert die to get it just right. A new bullet MUST drop in a fired case to be safe.
Any other brand of brass is too thick in the neck to work without turning or reaming.
Using regular 06' brass in MY chamber would not work, however had the reamer been made to accomodate a thicker neck, it would have. These are some of the joys of Wildcat cartridges. My addiction to "fun with wildcats" is why the most recent book I published was "Wildcat Cartridges" by Fred Zelig (inventor of the Hawk Cartridge line of wildcats). Fred is an expert riflebuilder and really covers the subject with a lot of technical info which IMO is more important than just loading data. (Yes this is a shameless plug for the book)(That's my 400 Whelen on the cover..... beautiful and deadly)

 

[bohem]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

Beautiful rifle, I'll have to take a look for that book on Amazon, thanks.

I was hoping to get an idea of what powder and rough (not necessarily load 'em and shoot 'em) charges would be to get an idea of what reloading is going to cost for it.

I'm dealing with the same issue for the 6.5-06 right now, I'm using only 270 brass because it has the smallest change in diameter and I have a neck turner on order, in fact, it should show up tomorrow. I'm sure I'll have more questions for you as time progresses and I start cutting chips to build the rifle. Thanks again.

 

[dksd39]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

Just to add- please DO NOT start with my load info but for reference I use 55.2gr RL-22 under 55gr bullets which puts me close to 4100fps. The necks must be turned depending on your chamber. I have some that are hotter but this load is a good balence for my rifle. On a cool high humidity morning the round will pull its own vapor trail

Here is a pic of my 22-284.

 

[bohem]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

Nice looking piece! Thanks for the load. I'd never use someone elses load in my rifle, I'm trying to get an idea for what powder and the eventual cost of owning the cartridge vs. settling for something that's "off the shelf" like a 22-250.

So far I haven't seen anything that makes me want to revert to an existing "wildcat" that ammo is easy to get. More and more I'm looking forward to building one of these nasty buggers.

 

[Iron Worker]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

I'm having fun with my 22-250AI. Last Sunday 3/08/09 I was getting comfortably 3,350 with 80 gr A-max.(42.5grs of Re#22) Firing same load with Berger 80gr VLDs put me over 3,400 FPS. Less then 1/2MOA at 100yds. I need to load these again to make sure. My Riflew is a Cooper Model 22 but with a Mike Rock 26" 5R BBL with 8"twist sporter weight. ( Predator rifle) I wonder if Re#25 is too slow?

 

[dksd39]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

Iron worker- for your situation (80gr bullets) RL-25 looks like a great choice and it should work better than RL-22

 

[bohem]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

Thanks again guys, this is great info.

 

[bohem]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

My chamber reamer showed up yesterday, my 284 brass and dies are on order from Grafs, and the action is stripped sitting on my dad's bench ready for work as soon as the current k98 he has in the lathe is done.

I'm very excited. I'm heading to a show tonight, if someone with reloading supplies is there I'm going to try finding some H869 or RL-22 and pick up a pound of it.

The brass backorderd, I ended up canceling it partly due to cost.

 

[dksd39]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

sounds like you will soon be having fun. Have you narrowed down your bullet selection? What twist barrel?

 

[bohem]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

I was thinking about an 1:8 on a straight taper Adams and Bennett.

It's sure not a Shilen or Lilja, etc, but it's only going to last 1000 rounds and it's not a BR rifle. I can buy 3 A&B barrels for what 1 select match shilen will run me.

For the bullets I have a 50 cal ammo can full of 55gr FMJ's for the AR15, I figured I'd use them to fireform the brass, maybe keep a few on hand for shooting water bottles or something, just as "exhibitiion ammo" and then keep 75 or 80 grain JLK or Bergers to reach out for something a decent walk out there.

What do you think? I was tempted to try putting some of the 35 grain Vmax that I have on the shelf in it, but I don't think they'll survive past 10 yards at 4500 fps.

 

[dksd39]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

Sounds like you have some good ideas. As for your twist/bullet selection- I do not believe the 55gr's will survive a 1:8 twist. I expect they will simply explode upon exit- I am 100% certain a 35gr will not survive. I would think you should be able to push the 80gr close to 3600 depending on barrel length and powder selection. Considering you would like to use the heavy bullets your best bet for powder might be Retumbo with RL-25 in second. RL-22 is a bit too fast and US869 is too slow. Cant hurt to test them all.

 

[bohem]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

DK-

I picked up a pound of RL22 yesterday, there wasn't any RL25 that I saw, but I didn't think to look for retumbo. Hopefully I'll be able to make it work, if not maybe my dad can run it through his 22-250.

Thanks for the info about the 55 grainers, I didn't think the 35's would survive I was just joking about them (would be pretty cool though)

I'm really excited to get this thing built!

 

[Phil1]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

Don't be too concerned about barrel life. You own the reamer and can set the barrel back once at least. So if you got 750 rounds before the accuracy drops off you will get another 750.

You can always e-mail the bullet manufactures about what light weight bullets might survive 3800-4500 f.p.s. ++ http://reloadersnest.com/index.asp
See 5278 F.P.S. as the fastest load on the fron page here(left hand side of page).

They make more barrels every day.

 

[shpanther]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

Not exactly apples,,,I've shot alot of 6 improved. 70's @ 4,100 and 90's around 3,600. RL-22 for the 90's.

You should better those numbers. The biggest problem i've had long term has been split necks.They might be in your future.

 

[our gang]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

Rather than add wear to your barrel while fireforming, use the bullseye/cornmeal method. read this piece. it is very long and the "no bullet method " is not covered until about 3-4 pages down. The use of the false shouder is ESSENTIAL and I always used bullseye and cornmeal with a dab of cast bullet lube to hold it all in.
ALWAYS really clean the barrel when you are done, with acetone, to get all the crud out.

No barrel wear and no concern about heating up the barrel. Always do it outdoors with the muzzle almost vertical.

Anneal the necks and IME H869 is less erosive but more dirty than stick powders.

site is:
http://www.6mmbr.com/260AIforming.html

 

[bohem]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

Phil-

I'm certainly planing to be able to set the barrel back at least once, that's a good point you have. I'm getting the straight taper barrel for the easy inletting that won't have to be done after a 1-1.5" set back. Legally I could set it back 10 times until I hit 16" min length, but with this round that's just dumb. Anything under 22" is probably just wasting time and money shooting for velocities that won't happen any more.

The 35 grain Vmax I have on the shelf are for a 22 Reed Express that's been put in my CZ52, that's a slick little toy and I only had to sacrifice some Tokarev brass and shell out the 72 bucks for a set of dies. Does a dandy job on squirrels with a 35grainer at 2700+

Panther-

Is that a 6-284 Imp? Good to know that those velocities are obtainable, I'm hoping to get 55's well over 4k

Mr. H, thanks for that link. I've heard about that method and my dad has used it for some stuff but I never did it personally. I'll give that a whirl for sure, I didn't even think to try it out.

Gotta say, you guys have been really great for information about this project. Thanks!

 

[dksd39]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

The issue is not if the bullets can be pushed to X speed. It is- can they be pushed to X speed with a given twist. If a 1:8 twist is used the chances of getting bullets to X is greatly reduced. I am anxiously awaiting this build just to see what it can do. I know what my 1:12 does with a 55gr but this has inspired me to do some more testing.

 

[Tyler Kemp]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

I would try the Berger 30 grain bullets and go for a velocity record. Highest I've ever seen is just over 5200 fps.

And then the heavies for long range domination!

 

[our gang]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

Large powder capacity 224 wildcats are designed to be used with heavy bullets. the granddaddy 228 Ackley (.228 Hi power bullets) was the first example.
High initial velocity is not the goal, high retained velocity and long range performance are. The twist needed to stabilize an 80 gr 224 will destroy a lighter bullet if you push it fast.
I remember as a "ute" shooting 25-20 60 gr hollow points out of my 25-06 (still a wildcat) with a case full of surplus 4831. They would leave a nice vapor trail for about 30 yards until they disintergrated. Great to get the English Sparrows off the bird feeder....no body to pick up.

 

[bohem]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

I know what you guys mean, it's the twist that tears the bullets apart and shooting a 80 grain 22 caliber for 700+ is the normal stated goal. I'm not really looking for something to shoot at 4500 fps all the time, but just being able to put a couple into a watermelon as a demonstration shot would be really cool.

Tyler's point about going to break the 5300 mark is interesting, the current speed record that I know of was done with a 118 grain aluminum bullet in a 416 Gerlach with abotu 120 grains of H4895, 5325 fps.

The A-Square company did it with a barrel that picked up a 2 thousands taper and was smaller diameter at the muzzle, thus keeping the area under the pressure curve much higher.

Considering that a 1:14 twist full bull barrel costs 70 bucks with my discount from midway there's more than a little temptation to put those 35's in that simply to shoot them over the chrono and brag about it. As stated before by someone, I own the reamer, and I'm cutting the chips myself, so that's starting to bring up an interesting thought train. If it tanks then I can just use the barrel to make parts for another 22 Reed Express.

 

[bohem]

Re: 22-284 project, loading data

I had a bit of a realization at the range this weekend.

I have some 284 Win brass that I had necked up to 30 cal and used with no other changes to shoot in my k31. I also have about 800 new cases of real 7.5 Swiss cases from Grafs. The only difference from measuring the outside of the cases quickly was that the 7.5x55 uses a 503 base and we all know the 284 is a 473 rebated rim.

Anyone ever tried to turn the rim back a little to the 473 base and make 284 cases from 7.5x55 Swiss?

I have more than a lifetime of brass for the k31 considering how much I shoot it, this would solve my issue that I wanted to avoid buying expensive-ass 22x284 Brass (The only stuff I found was like 100 bucks for 20 cases of Norma on Grafs)

For whatever reason I totally forgot that

1) I can just neck down 284's (duhhhhh)
2) I had 50 cases on the shelf already

Thinking about why I had the 284's with 7.5 swiss loads in them turned on a lightbulb in my head.


I'm slowly but surely collecting the parts for the build. I'm still waiting on a barrel to become available from Midway. I have dies on the way, at least 50 cases now (hopefully more like 150 when I get to the lathe at my dad's shop) and the action is sitting here with all the working parts...

I decided that I'm going to build a tube gun style stock for it too...