22 accuracy expectations ?

[BurtG]

What is the general expected accuracy for a quality .22 at 100 yards ?

I figure with center fires , you expect around 1/2 moa or better for 5 shots at 100 with a quality barrel and ammo.

Seems like 22s are a lot harder to be accurate at 100+

 

[Jgore]

1-1.5 moa realistically

Its the wind that gets you most often, ammo is the second thing that fucks you.

You might shoot an occasional group tighter....but anyone claiming to shoot 1/2 or even 3/4 moa groups at 100 on demand is flat out lying, as they would win every rimfire competition in the world easily shooting those groups.

Also not talking about BR rigs....thats a whole different world

Yep, BR is completely different. Mine will shoot 3/4-1” at 100 until I get on a barricade. Lol. And yes, it’s me that causes the issue.

 

[SMH]

I would say 1-1.5 is spot on.
I tested a variety of ammunition (from cci std to R50 and Eley 10X) shooting 3 x 5 shot groups at 100 yards.

My Anschutz 2013 ranged from .56 to around 1.5inch with around a 1.0 average.
My 10/22T was around 1.70 as I recall.

The three reps of five shot groups of a Remington Eley product averaged .56 inches. (beating all of the more expensive ones)
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any more of the lot code that performed so well. (I wouild have paid double!)

Its very hard to find ideal days to test .22s!

 

[Jgore]

I would say 1-1.5 is spot on.
I tested a variety of ammunition (from cci std to R50 and Eley 10X) shooting 3 x 5 shot groups at 100 yards.

My Anschutz 2013 ranged from .56 to around 1.5inch with around a 1.0 average.
My 10/22T was around 1.70 as I recall.

The three reps of five shot groups of a Remington Eley product averaged .56 inches. (beating all of the more expensive ones)
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to find any more of the lot code that performed so well. (I wouild have paid double!)

Its very hard to find ideal days to test .22s!

Off the bench?? Not off a barricade or prop.

 

[ECK]

1-1.5 moa realistically

Its the wind that gets you most often, ammo is the second thing that fucks you.

Agree with ^. Barring wind, for PRS22 or NRL22 type shooting I look for lots of ammo that can hold at least 1-1.5” @ 100 yds. Majority of the targets we see at those matches are usually 2-3MOA esp when 100 yds and out. 1/4” KYL @ 50 is also not too uncommon, so want the ammo to be capable of that as well.

 

[ECK]

Off the bench?? Not off a barricade or prop.

To me, being able to hold 1-1.5MOA off a bench/prone is the ammo/rifle combo. Doing the same off a barricade or prop is on the shooter.

 

[BurtG]

thanks. Never really shot 22s seriously before.
When you jump from 50 to 100 yards things really change.
And crazy how much different ammo changes things.

Was just trying to get zeros and 100 yard drop today. Groups would be half the size with a competent shooter.

77/22 really liked tenex at 50

Vudoo liked long range a lot more than center x at 100. Of course I have a lot more center x than LR

Cci better than expected. This is first time I chrono 22

 

[Jgore]

To me, being able to hold 1-1.5MOA off a bench/prone is the ammo/rifle combo. Doing the same off a barricade or prop is on the shooter.

I agree. That’s what I said up top. Once you find the right combo it’s up to the shooter at that point.

 

[Jgore]

thanks. Never really shot 22s seriously before.
When you jump from 50 to 100 yards things really change.
And crazy how much different ammo changes things.

Was just trying to get zeros and 100 yard drop today. Groups would be half the size with a competent shooter.

View attachment 8304957View attachment 8304956


View attachment 8304958

77/22 really liked tenex at 50View attachment 8304959

Vudoo liked long range a lot more than center x at 100. Of course I have a lot more tenex than LR
View attachment 8304961


Cci better than expected. This is first time I chrono 22


View attachment 8304960

Have you tried RWS R50? You can call them and order a test batch. 5 or 10 different lots to see which your gun likes.

 

[BurtG]

Have you tried RWS R50? You can call them and order a test batch. 5 or 10 different lots to see which your gun likes.

I have not.

My biggest complaint about jumping into 22 is the ammo testing / searching. Some say it’s fun. I say it’s a waste of time and money

 

[Jgore]

I have not.

My biggest complaint about jumping into 22 is the ammo testing / searching. Some say it’s fun. I say it’s a waste of time and money

It’s all I do. I don’t shoot centerfire anymore. The key is to buy all you can afford once you find the right ammo. I shoot r50 for match and RWS Target for practice. Very similar ammo velocity wise. My door changes very little between the two.

 

[BurtG]

Based on those groups, you should really consider it.

I did shoot 6 kinds of ammo The 77/22 and Vudoo were picky. A lot of crappy groups but the 77/22 really likes tenex and the Vudoo likes long range. Funny. The 10/22 didn’t like the high dollar ammo and did better with cci sv and Aguila.

Lapua center x and long range plus all this

 

[justin amateur]

I prefer to determine results for myself.
That way I avoid ego driven responses obfuscating the facts.
If you want to see what actually occurs at 100 yards,
take the time to send an entire box at a single aim point.
The 50 shot sample size is large enough to eliminate random acts of accuracy.
You can trust what you see when all 50 shots are shown.
No cherry picking in order to stroke the old ego, eh?

 

[BurtG]

Have you tried RWS R50?

More on that. Tenex did not shoot well in the Vudoo. Then I was told the chamber in the factory guns in cut to favor lapua

 

[whatsupdoc]

My good rifles can and will shoot 1moa at 100 in calm conditions off a bench. Now if you are trying that on a windy day then your ability to shoot small groups at 100 will depend on your ability to read the wind.

Rimfire ammo is like women, impossible to figure out and you never know what you are getting in the box.

 

[SMH]

Off the bench?? Not off a barricade or prop.

Sand bags front and rear! Barricade or prop would be more like my offhand experience this weekend...
I was sighting in my new rifle and scope at 50ft and placed 5 rounds in one ragged hole...I was beaming with pride as I hadn't shot smallbore in over a year and was shooting a better standing score with a sporter than I would have expected with my free rifle.

Of course the next shot missed the black on the A36 and brought my ego crashing back to earth.
I'm just not sure if it was the ammo, the scope or the rifle that malfuntioned! lol.

 

[LR1845]

I prefer to determine results for myself.
That way I avoid ego driven responses obfuscating the facts.
If you want to see what actually occurs at 100 yards,
take the time to send an entire box at a single aim point.
The 50 shot sample size is large enough to eliminate random acts of accuracy.
You can trust what you see when all 50 shots are shown.
No cherry picking in order to stroke the old ego, eh?

So do you shoot 50 rounds back to back? Are you shooting off a bench? BR rifle? Honest questions.

 

[justin amateur]

Hey LR, F-Class Sinclair bipod, rear bag, off the bench.
Single fed cartridges, 50 shots across a chrony each time.
100 and 200 yards to compare results and spread.

I found that averaging groups hid problems.
Building 50 shot aggregates was time consuming.
Cartridge quality comparison was simple
when both chrony numbers and 50 shot group is a single image.

The whole box at 100 yards

Just a thought...what do y'all think would happen, if 5 shot groups went the way of the dodo, and if ya' were going to show off how well ye'r rifle can do at 100 yards, was accomplished by sending all 50 shots at a single aimpoint. I have a feeling it'd pretty much end claims of "sub-moa all day...

www.snipershide.com

 

[whatsupdoc]

I prefer to determine results for myself.
That way I avoid ego driven responses obfuscating the facts.
If you want to see what actually occurs at 100 yards,
take the time to send an entire box at a single aim point.
The 50 shot sample size is large enough to eliminate random acts of accuracy.
You can trust what you see when all 50 shots are shown.
No cherry picking in order to stroke the old ego, eh?

The problem with that is that most shooters will tire shooting 50 carefully controlled shots in a row and if
you take your time conditions will most certainly change between the first and last shot.

The only real way IMO is to shoot 50 indoors with a rail gun removing all shooter and wind noise

 

[LR1845]

The problem with that is that most shooters will tire shooting 50 carefully controlled shots in a row and if
you take your time conditions will most certainly change between the first and last shot.

The only real way IMO is to shoot 50 indoors with a rail gun removing all shooter and wind noise

This is what I was getting to and was going to load some pictures from my ammo testing with my new Vudoo but for some reason I can not load pics from my phone to my computer and posting from my phone is a PITA trying to write descriptions as i add pics.

 

[justin amateur]

No argument doc, if I had access to a 100 yard tunnel,
that'd be where I'd spend my time testing ammunition.
But folk's have to work with what they have.
I have access to outdoor 50, 100 and 200 yards, that's what I use.

 

[LR1845]

Pic #1 New Vudoo shot Friday afternoon in just about perfect conditions...beautiful afternoon we do not get often in Northern Nevada...

Pic #2 round first round out of new gun where my finger is...5.5mils down and 9 rounds of SK standard plus at 25yds

Pic #3 ammo test...#4 was eley subsonic and 3 outta 10 did not extract and did not shoot that great anyway that's why I did not write any info....note #2 and #8 both RWS 50 #8 was not ammo that is shooter fatigue... at 50yds

Pic #4 was next day.... Saturday not so great conditions Cold, over cast and light varying wind from 130-2 O'clock
SK Long Range Match...Bolt is 3/4" for reference...100yds...actually 101.6yds

Pic #5 Saturday same conditions...RWS 50 101.6yds the one outta the group was definitely me getting use to the new gun

Also Friday was shot with a Zeiss S3 4-25 which I was having a problem seeing the center dot Saturday was shot with a Mark5 5-25...both days after each 10 shot group I'd walk down and check the group...my way of taking a break.
I am far from the best shot and do not claim to be an expert but in my 18-20ish years of this I have never met anyone that can shoot 50 rounds back to back(no break) and not have fatigue set in and groups go south.

@justin amateur I am not calling you out because I do not know you and you may very well be able to shoot 50 rounds at one point of aim and know if the ammo is good or not...I personally can not I've tried several times..I shoot a couple of 10 round groups then the next day shoot a couple more 10 round groups at 100yds if they look like the 101.6yd groups below I know its a good lot...I will now buy 5k same lot# of the SK Long Range Match and the RWS 50.

 

[jbell]

In either no wind or very consistent wind conditions I expect 0.6 - 0.75 moa at 100 yards but anything sub MOA is mostly acceptable. I am basing this on results from many premium rifles I have had built over the years shooting 5 round groups without wind flags prone off of a bipod and small rear bag. Going up to 10 round groups I expect a little larger groups just under to right at MOA.

I feel like there was a thread on this not too long ago that you may get some more opinions from.

 

[jbell]

This is the one I was thinking of

1/2 MOA at 100 yards, all day, every day!

Now that I have your attention, how? What does it take to produce 1/2 MOA(ish) groups on demand? Is it even possible with 22LR and if so, with what caveats? There are enough 6x5 averages posted in the 1/2 MOA range that it can't be a statistical anomaly. There are some extremely skilled...

www.snipershide.com

 

[LR1845]

I shoot 10 round groups to mimic a match stage not a lotta stages are 5 rounds, as far as accuracy goes I love seeing and 1” or better but the reality of it is I’m pretty happy if it’s consistently 1”-1.5”
prone with a bag and bipod.

Off a prop I know what the problem is no guessing there when I miss.

 

[justin amateur]

LR, I am compulsive about 50 consecutive shots at a time. Not many are.
I am so focused, that it feels wrong if unable to complete the box.
Rimfire is how I warm up before setting up the F-Class 223 on the bench or mat.
Same skill set for both, but my handloads are quite a bit more consistent.

 

[mosin46]

as most say above. i have 50 & 100yd. wind is quite inconsistent-50yd flags 180 degr lt-rt, 100yd exact opposite,real variable and inconsistent. so,for me, 1-1.5 with mid qual ammo (st+,rws match etc) cz 453,sav mk2 is good enough to satisfy my expectations. i am going to try the 50r at 1 spot as it seems my groups do jump around as to POI. prob me or maybe my low to mid qual scopes?

 

[justin amateur]

Mosin, the reason for group movement is cartridge variations and wind.
Trust y'er ability to hold center, it really is y'er ammo
and the changing conditions that affects the results.
If y'er cross hairs are wandering even before you squeeze
yeah, then it is you, but when you ride out the shot
and cross hairs stay on center, it's the ammo and wind.

 

[mosin46]

yea often the wind is hard to follow and i know it will change after the round leaves the barrel at times. i know pretty much when i have screwed a shot and when a shot is an obvious ammo flyer. my issue is group POI changing some times a little,sometimes a bunch. but not necessarily individual shots. that is why i think i will do some 50r groups and see if that gives me more useful data and maybe more embarrassing results.

 

[Coyote777]

These 12 shot groups were shot yesterday with my Vudoo at 100yds. I had one flag down range and setup to where I could see it in my scope while shooting. Winds were 12-13mph from my right to left. My average was around 1.190 MOA and I was happy with that. Just wanted to see what I could do in the wind. Ammo was R50.

 

[mosin46]

thanks. that is,to me,meaningful wind. i don't feel too incompetent when i see this and other postings of +/- 2 moa groups from high end guns and ammo. gonna try some 50r groups this week. i have seen how going from 50 to100 makes a really big difference. sorta like my going from 300 to 600 with 223.

 

[RTH1800]

Great shooting in those conditions!

 

[Coyote777]

Great shooting in those conditions!

Thank you sir! I thought so as well.