.22 vs 17hmr

[Dizzoballs]

I had been planning to get a savage mk2 in .22 for the purpose of target out to 100 yards.
Today i was at the store, and there was no .22. Plenty of 17hmr though, and it got me thinking.
I own a m&p 15-22 already, and an ar15. 17hmr looks like half the price of .223. The s&w shoots a 2” at 100 yards already.
Would a bolt .22 do any better, or would it be more advantageous to add a bolt 17hmr?

 

[Wlfdg]

This is 10rd, 100yd group from my MKII FV with Center X.
It could probably do better if I weren't the weak link in the chain
I've never shot a 17hmr. I can't help you with that.

 

[Near miss]

17hmr is a difficult one..
It has the same lot problems as 22lr, maybe even worse since instead of quality ammo batches you have to go through CCI batches.

But it is quite fun to shoot with. I recommend adding one if you are really out of ammo and see the ammo cost economically a good solution.

 

[Dewil]

I really like the look of the 17hmr, being a small flat shooting baby .308. The two biggest drawbacks for me personally is price of ammo and ability to suppress.

 

[beetroot]

Whats the purpose of this rifle?
A decent 17hmr should shoot well under an 1" at 100yards, my cz452 shoots under .75" if it's not too windy.
An accurate 22lr using match grade ammo should also shoot under 1" at 100yards.
17hmr makes a excellent small game cartridge; it's quiet, safer around built up areas, relatively cheap and available in lots of good rifles.

That being said I shoot maybe a 100 rounds of 17hmr per year vs thousands of 22lr, for a trainer or precision plinker 22lr is the better way to go.
If you are getting it for plinking rather than varminting I'd say go for 22lr, just make sure you keep a decent stock of ammo in reserve for times when it's unavailable but that kinda goes for all popular cartridges these days.

 

[Drew M]

To answer your question, yes & yes.

Have just picked up another .22 & waiting for another to be released here.

From what I have seen 17hmr shoots really well.
My Savage r93 likes most ammo & a friends CZ455 is the same.
Almost boring how accurate it is to shoot.
Will have to take the 17hmr for a run the next time I go out for a shot.

 

[SporterII]

To reiterate, the 17 is quite loud.

 

[Wlfdg]

17hmr is a difficult one..
It has the same lot problems as 22lr, maybe even worse since instead of quality ammo batches you have to go through CCI batches.

But it is quite fun to shoot with. I recommend adding one if you are really out of ammo and see the ammo cost economically a good solution.

This is the same issue the .17wsm has

 

[Dizzoballs]

Whats the purpose of this rifle?
A decent 17hmr should shoot well under an 1" at 100yards, my cz452 shoots under .75" if it's not too windy.
An accurate 22lr using match grade ammo should also shoot under 1" at 100yards.
17hmr makes a excellent small game cartridge; it's quiet, safer around built up areas, relatively cheap and available in lots of good rifles.

That being said I shoot maybe a 100 rounds of 17hmr per year vs thousands of 22lr, for a trainer or precision plinker 22lr is the better way to go.
If you are getting it for plinking rather than varminting I'd say go for 22lr, just make sure you keep a decent stock of ammo in reserve for times when it's unavailable but that kinda goes for all popular cartridges these days.

Punching paper is pretty much all it will do.
The draw of the 17 is that it is slightly more of a tack driver (so Ive heard)
Being a less used cartridge, stock is always available. My stores shelves are bare of 22, but full of 17.
Shooting my 6.5 cred gets expensive, and my shoulder can only take so much.

 

[justin amateur]

I like the 17 hmr, from the 16 grain no lead to 20 grain fmj and hollow points,
it's an effective small game and varminting cartridge.
But don't let anyone tell you it's an "all day long if I do my part" cartridge.
The only two manufacturers are CCI and Winchester,
neither of whom have the quality control on place
to produce anything but hunting and plinking ammo.
There is no batch grading, only testing for function and chamber pressures.
Ammo quality can range from quite decent to visibly defective cartridges.
Every purchase is a roll of the assembly line dice.
No guarantees that what you'll get will be worth the money spent.

 

[db2000]

My Savage 93R shoots through the same hole repeatedly at 50 yrds with CCI A17 ammo, which was engineered to shoot with the Savage A17.

 

[justin amateur]

I believe ya' db.

I can produce some mighty fine results also, when I can find decent ammo.
Grab some of that A17 and run a few 6x5s to add to jbell's thread in the sticky section up top.
See how you do in comparison to previous results.
Not many of us use the 17hmr or 22wmr to compete.
Lack of consistent ammo quality has a nasty tendency of ruining a good target.
Especially in the 6x5 where you have to put 6 groups of 5 on a single target.

 

[beetroot]

Punching paper is pretty much all it will do.
The draw of the 17 is that it is slightly more of a tack driver (so Ive heard)
Being a less used cartridge, stock is always available. My stores shelves are bare of 22, but full of 17.
Shooting my 6.5 cred gets expensive, and my shoulder can only take so much.

For varmint hunting I feel the 17hmr is a better choice as for hunting ranges it bucks the wind better and drops less.

For paper punching and ultimate accuracy I think you'll be better off with 22lr, the lack of ammo choices and match grade ammo means ammo quality will be your limiting factor.
That being said if .75-1" at 100yards is good enough then 17hmr will be fine but 22lr has higher accuracy potential.

For a pure paper punching rifle I'd go 22lr but as I said keep a decent stock of ammo for the panick buying periods. 500 rounds of CCI standard velocity is the same price as 100 rounds of 17hmr for me, so keeping a few 1000 rounds in reserve is relatively cheap.

 

[Choid]

The vmax 17 HMR is a blast to shoot gophers with. 22 is not as fun.

 

[Near miss]

I suppress my HMR with 22lr suppressor and even when shot inside 3 walls from a range hut it did not feel bad without hearing protection.

But I am sure the short supersonic travel near the shooter is enough to make some dent with multiple exposures, no way around it so I shoot with ears.

It is not unpleasant. But nowhere near 22LR sound.

 

[phxfa]

I just bought a Tikka T1x in 17hmr, 16in barrel. Shoots dime size or less groups at 50yds, .750 at 100. Suppressed is a whole bunch quieter than 22mag suppressed. Probably due to the smaller bore. Similar to an unsuppressed 22lr Velociter for sound comparison. 22 mag still has a better ‘splat’ factor,,,,

 

[blvedere]

Shoot a 200 yard rimfire match twice a month and HMR's are usually high aggregate.

 

[Cheyenne Bodie]

17hmr bolt. Loud but fast. Ammo is still pretty cheap. No comparison to .223 at all, not sure where that came from.

I've killed more things with a 17hmr bolt than anything else by far. Add a can and night vision for some real fun.

 

[Supersubes]

For plinking the 22 probably wins. I don’t do a lot of that, but I do whack a lot of small game with a t1x HMR. The HMR is night and day better for that. It’s a clean cartridge with the copper bullets, and I always shoot suppressed. I hardly ever shoot .22 any more actually.

 

[steve123]

I had been planning to get a savage mk2 in .22 for the purpose of target out to 100 yards.
Today i was at the store, and there was no .22. Plenty of 17hmr though, and it got me thinking.
I own a m&p 15-22 already, and an ar15. 17hmr looks like half the price of .223. The s&w shoots a 2” at 100 yards already.
Would a bolt .22 do any better, or would it be more advantageous to add a bolt 17hmr?

Factory rifles - it's a crap shoot, you stand just as much of a chance of getting a dud as a good one and of course most will be middle of the road. Speaking of crap, one of my friends bought a Savage 17 and it is extremly unimpressive. Doesn't feed well nor shoot well. Yes he tried quite a few types of ammo.

It's just a cheap Savage, get 2 guns - both cartridges and keep whichever one you like.
BUT I'd personally definitely go for Tikka or CZ instead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Supersubes]

Factory rifles - it's a crap shoot, you stand just as much of a chance of getting a dud as a good one and of course most will be middle of the road. Speaking of crap, one of my friends bought a Savage 17 and it is extremly unimpressive. Doesn't feed well nor shoot well. Yes he tried quite a few types of ammo.

It's just a cheap Savage, get 2 guns - both cartridges and keep whichever one you like.
BUT I'd personally definitely go for Tikka or CZ instead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My first HMR was a savage 93. It was garbage. I tinkered with it for a while, then gave up and bandsawed it into small pieces. F#%k that thing. I’m so happy with the T1X.

 

[steve123]

My first HMR was a savage 93. It was garbage. I tinkered with it for a while, then gave up and bandsawed it into small pieces. F#%k that thing. I’m so happy with the T1X.

LOL, that's pretty extreme!

I'm never buying a slavage again.

 

[JG26_Irish]

I have had a Savage 93R in 17hmr for several years. It shoots well. Not match grade but is capable of printing sub MOA groups at 100y and 200y. It is a very capable hunting rifle for small game and varmints. It is great fun to shoot just plinking at 200y or so. I agree with Justin about it not being capable of scoring a decent 6x5 card. You just cannot string together 30 perfect shots without getting a few flyers or wind issues or just a bad round. The lack of good match grade ammo is a weakness only for target work. for hunting or play it is great. One issue. You cannot treat it like a 22lr. You must clean the bore like a centerfire rifle to maintain accuracy and I doubt the bore will last as long as a 22. But, so what? As great as mine is, I don't use it much. Why? I have other rifles that are better at all the jobs it could do. I have great 22's for match shooting and squirrel hunting. I have a 17WSM for ground hogs and coyotes. I have a 223 long range rifle for precision shooting and varmints. The 17hmr has killed more squirrels in one outing than any gun I have but it is heavy with its bull bbl and loud. I tend to use the 17 mach2 and 22lr for that kind of hunting now and the hmr has become a loaner gun for visitors or family to use. Savage is a nice cheap rifle. A CZ or Tikka would be a better choice. An Annie would be supreme. Price goes up with each and you still cannot get true match ammo to feed any of them. They struggle to do better than 1/2 at 100y. Usually more like .600 to .850 inch at that range. At 50y they are not going to be much better than .400 to .500. Not sure why but they seem to do better at 100 and 200 than up close. Likely an ammo thing or lack of precision in the rifle itself. I think the short flight time helps with longer shots compared to 22's but could be wrong. I have a Savage MkII in 22lr and another in 17Mach2. Both of the 17's will out shoot the 22 at 100y but the 22 is the king at 50y as long as I am shooting CX or Wolf ammo or similar in quality.

 

[Supersubes]

LOL, that's pretty extreme!

I'm never buying a slavage again.

I belonged to a private range then, but there were people there at the time. I briefly considered running it over with my truck or putting bullets through it. I was more angry at myself for buying a Salvage in the first place. I knew better.

 

[PracticalTactical]

Salvage... ha ha.., too effin funny.

I've never had a .17 mainly because of the speed of sound thing.

A 22LR under the speed of sound has consistent accuracy all the way out.

Problem with these barely supersonic rounds is they are awesome at close range but accuracy falls apart farther out as they drop to and navigate the transonic speed zone. I tried Browning 22LR BPRs and they darted all over the place as range increased, great at close range though.

I'm sure the .17 is awesome at typical rim fire hunting distances, but I wouldn't bet on it for longer range accuracy.

 

[justin amateur]

17 grain vmax mv 2550 fps goes transonic at about 300 yards.
At 200 yards results will equal or better the top grades of 22lr.
As long as you get y'er hands on a decent batch of cartridges.
As with anything rimfire, everything depends on the quality control at the factory.

50 shots, 200 yards.

Of course if you get a cr*ppy batch,
the results can be just as bad as bulk 22lr.

 

[Frankr]

My 2 cents.

I have
22lr, 17hm2 and 17hmr guns in the safe and have shot RAR 17hmr, Savage 93 17hmr, Browning Tbolt 17hmr, 455 in 17, 457 in 17 and probably 1-2 others.
We used to use the 17hmr to control ground squirrels for farmers and a good day would be 400-500 rounds through a gun.
The Pros of the 17hmr over the 22lr are these (for us hunting).
1. Trajectory - shooting ground squirrels rapidly from 50 yards to 150 yards is easier and faster for me because sighted in correctly holding center of mass is all you need to do.
2. explosiveness - self explanatory
3. Time in flight. Seems it gets down range quite a bit faster at 150 -200 yards

Cons vs the 22lr
1. Quality ammo- the 17hmr ammo is a crap shoot. If you find a lot it likes then buy a bunch and even then I would get some random fliers.
2. Wind affects the 17hmr it seems much more than the 22lr
3. Semi auto- if a semi auto is your thing the 17hmr has only a few guns - Savage, volquartsen, magnum research, Alexander arms, and I forget the other Ar15 upper that does (uses a roller locking bolt).

personally I like the 17hm2 more and wish they would make match ammo for it again or even match ammo for the 17hmr.

 

[justin amateur]

I thought wind drift would be a problem compared to the 22wmr and 22lr, as the 17 hmr is so small.
But a bit of reading shows just the opposite. A comparison of 22lr, 22wmr, 17hmr and 17wsm at 100 yards

Rimfire Showdown: .22 WMR vs. .17 HMR vs. .17 WSM

A hardcore ballistic shootout with three of the best rimfires of all time.

www.outdoorlife.com

From VarmintAl a graphic of wind drift out to 300 yards

 

[PracticalTactical]

17 grain vmax mv 2550 fps goes transonic at about 300 yards.
At 200 yards results will equal or better the top grades of 22lr.
As long as you get y'er hands on a decent batch of cartridges.
As with anything rimfire, everything depends on the quality control at the factory.

50 shots, 200 yards.

Of course if you get a cr*ppy batch,
the results can be just as bad as bulk 22lr.

I'd like to know how you figure the 17 goes transonic at 300 yards.

I ran the 17 on JBM and its coming up as transonic between 200 and 225 yards, which isn't bad, but 300 is just unrealistic

Based on that I would expect that if you were to provide some 250 yard or 300 yard targets the accuracy would be proportionately much worse than your 200 yard targets.

I'm almost tempted to get a 17 but every time I crunch the transonic ballistics my interest fades. Keep in mind that I rarely hunt these days, mostly I shoot PRS style events with 22LR or center fire. I totally see how cool it would be for hunting small animals though.

 

[justin amateur]

Different calculator? 1128 fps sound barrier at sea level and 68°F

Ballistic Calculator GunData.org

Thanks for using the external ballistic calculator from GunData.org that accurately details all aspects of the bullets trajectory the millisecond it leaves the guns barrel.

gundata.org

 

[Frankr]

I thought wind drift would be a problem compared to the 22wmr and 22lr, as the 17 hmr is so small.
But a bit of reading shows just the opposite. A comparison of 22lr, 22wmr, 17hmr and 17wsm at 100 yards

Rimfire Showdown: .22 WMR vs. .17 HMR vs. .17 WSM

A hardcore ballistic shootout with three of the best rimfires of all time.

www.outdoorlife.com

From VarmintAl a graphic of wind drift out to 300 yards

cool read and good info. My results are anecdotal. Just field observations shooting at targets and varmints in windy conditions. maybe I subconsciously hold out for less wind when shooting the 22lr just trying to pick the best time because it’s slower and has more drop so I baby it more when shooting it *shrug*. Going to have to test this out on paper for sure.

 

[teslawasframed]

A buddy of mine owns a CZ bolt rifle that came with 22lr and 17hmr barrels...an easy solution to your dilemma!

 

[rottenruger]

I had been planning to get a savage mk2 in .22 for the purpose of target out to 100 yards.
Today i was at the store, and there was no .22. Plenty of 17hmr though, and it got me thinking.
I own a m&p 15-22 already, and an ar15. 17hmr looks like half the price of .223. The s&w shoots a 2” at 100 yards already.
Would a bolt .22 do any better, or would it be more advantageous to add a bolt 17hmr?

Far from an expert on the subject......but......

Had a bunch of 1/8 inch metal plates from a salvage job.

Took to them with 22Long, 223, and 17HRM.

The 22Long just dented them. The 223 would go through 2-3-4 plates, depending on proximity.

The 17HRM would do about as good as the 223........AMAZING penetration for such a skinny little devil!!!

 

[justin amateur]

RR...was that using the 20 grain FMJ on the metal plates?
I can't see the ballistic tips doing much more than getting through the first plate
then turning into a spray of tiny shards. The 17 grain ballistic tips seem to fragment
on any type of impact, even cardboard.

 

[rottenruger]

Justin, I use the 17 gr V-Max ballistic tipped 17 HMR.........don't imagine the tips do much more than disappear. But the speed of this little demon is what does the trick, I think. I was experimenting, hoping to find something affordable to line the walls with, for SHTF purposes. Concluded I can't afford anything that would work. Tried multiple plywood sheets, hardiplank, as well as the steel that just happened to be on hand. Shux.

When you shoot the 17 HRM, remember........ It's small, but it can travel up to two miles.

 

[salks]

I belonged to a private range then, but there were people there at the time. I briefly considered running it over with my truck or putting bullets through it. I was more angry at myself for buying a Salvage in the first place. I knew better.

I have threatened to do the same. Mine shot like 5" inch groups. Sent it back twice the second time they just sent me a new one. It's much better but not what it should be.

 

[rottenruger]

I have threatened to do the same. Mine shot like 5" inch groups. Sent it back twice the second time they just sent me a new one. It's much better but not what it should be.
[/QUOTE

A Salvage? Ha ha. Mine is, too. Never said it was accurate, although mine will manage 2-2.5 MOA. It's a beautiful second hand rifle with a wonderful laminated stock.......wish it was a tack driver, I'd play with it a lot more.

The squirrels here are glad I don't.

Luck!

 

[salks]

93R17 yep. Saw a guy at the range with T1x in .17 HMR. Saw his groups and I was more than envious.