223 AI or No

[SporterII]

I am interested in another “long range 223.” I have an 8twist Broughton that can finish up to 25”. I also have a LTR which is short and slow.
I hand load all of it.
Seems I could have the LTR Ackley-ized. New barrel cut with the same reamer. Sound idea? That would only leave learning about which dies to use and the search for bullets. The LTR could then pick up some speed as well.

 

[Newbie2020]

Yes. I’m rebuilding a R700 223 Remington for the same purpose.

Long range w minimal components

 

[Newbie2020]

I’m going to make sure the chamber is cut friendly for the 85.5 grain Hybrid bergers.

 

[Moose]

Yes on the 223 AI it is an outstanding round and i see no down side.

 

[Criver600]

Yes, mine runs 80 grain SMK's just over 3000 FPS and shoots into one hole. WW brass, Sierra 80 SMK, Remington Small Rifle BR primers, Vihtavouri N-150

 

[blackblue]

No reason not to, shoots standard ammo accurate while building a brass supply.

 

[Moose]

The 223AI shoots standard 223 very well indeed and that is one of the things i like about it.

 

[redbullitt]

Do it. Messed with one my buddy owns built by sac. It's sweet. 80 noslers are easily at 2825 fps with blc2, no pressure signs even close. Shot so well, didn't go any faster for range it gets shot.

77 smks loaded up in 5.56 form shot just as well as anything you'd really need when fire forming the brass.

Only downside I saw was the dies are tough to find right now.

Brass trimming is supposedly greatly reduced, though I've not shot it enough to confirm.

 

[Moose]

Dies are very hard to find now and cost more then 223 dies but it is worth the effort.I have been shooting the 223AI for about 10 years and just love it.

 

[iceng]

223ai. Do it. You won't regret it.

 

[NHPiper]

I LOVE my 223AI built by Southern Precision Rifles (Bugholes). 24" barrel on a Stiller action. With Winchester Brass and Varget, I am getting 3000+ fps and shooting 1/4 MOA all day long with 80gr ELDM and Amax bullets. Have shot 930 yards with the rifle. Easy to spot hits, no recoil, and easy to fireform brass. I back my load off my .3 of a grain for fire forming and experience no point of impact shift or loss of accuracy.

 

[SporterII]

How much varget gets you that with a 24”/80gr. Bullet in Winchester brass?

 

[NHPiper]

How much varget gets you that with a 24”/80gr. Bullet in Winchester brass?

Mullerworks Barrel (I think its 24" but I actually may need to measure to confirm it isn't a 26")
Winchester Brass - 26.2gr Varget
Lapua Brass - 25.8gr Varget
2975fps is the velocity, just confirmed my notes

No signs of pressure on the brass.

 

[Moose]

NHpiper what barrel twist are you running with the 80 gr bullets.I run 8 twist with the 75 gr amax and it works out great.

 

[NHPiper]

NHpiper what barrel twist are you running with the 80 gr bullets.I run 8 twist with the 75 gr amax and it works out great.

It is a 7.5 twist, so slightly faster

 

[SporterII]

I need a 223 AI 40* fl die, remove the expander stem. Follow with chosen mandrel and done?
Seat with a AI seater?
Two dies like straight 223?

 

[Moose]

It is a 7.5 twist, so slightly faster

Thanks bro i will have to try the 80 gr slugs.

 

[iceng]

Bit off topic, but I did a 6troll, which is a 6x45ai. Or more specifically 223ai, necked to 6mm. Deep throated. 87gr VMAX @2980fps. Use accurate 224 mags, modded internally to allow 80thou longer OAL. Feeds perfect, excellent PRS trainer. 24.0gr bm2 powder.

I've built a few 223ai, and they rock. Even shooting factory 223rem and forming.

 

[NHPiper]

I need a 223 AI 40* fl die, remove the expander stem. Follow with chosen mandrel and done?
Seat with a AI seater?
Two dies like straight 223?

You can use a regular 223 seater die if you have one!

 

[Mongo610]

Slightly off topic: what is average barrel life shooters are getting? Still new to the caliber and wondering how many rounds I can get out of my barrel. Running 88 Elds @ 2900. At 1800ish rounds at the moment.

Lapua brass
CCI magnums
88 ELDs
XBR 8208 24.6grs.
26in benchmark M24
7.5 twist chambered by SAC

 

[JaredCO]

I’m getting 2825 out of a 223 with 88eld. Shoots under 1/2 moa with ammo loaded on a Dillon 750

 

[bmash]

No, for me. I was building a prairie dog rifle and since I already had a 204 Ruger and 6x47 Lapua, as well as 223 dies I decided to just stay with 223. I was already spending so much I didn’t want to spend the money on more dies.
with the Guirad trimmer trimming is no big deal. If I didn’t have the other two rifles I would have.

 

[MarshallDodge]

I really enjoy shooting the 223AI. LA Precision built mine with a 1/4 MOA guarantee and it does it with ease using the 75 Amax. 223AI just seems to be more inherently accurate than straight 223 based on my experience with both of them.

 

[SporterII]

The 75 Amax was a gem. I shot 5000 of them. They sadly are gone along with the2000 I sold. Shoot. (Shi*).

 

[Kentucreed6]

Can’t go wrong with the 223ai. So many up sides to it. No trimming. Run heavy bullets easily. I run 88 eldm at 2850-2900 with 24.6-25.0 of H4895 with great accuracy and no pressure. Basically equivalent to the br’s and dashers with 105’s. Only down side there is energy on target at longer distances. Brass is cheap and will last a long time

 

[Kentucreed6]

Slightly off topic: what is average barrel life shooters are getting? Still new to the caliber and wondering how many rounds I can get out of my barrel. Running 88 Elds @ 2900. At 1800ish rounds at the moment.

Lapua brass
CCI magnums
88 ELDs
XBR 8208 24.6grs.
26in benchmark M24
7.5 twist chambered by SAC

You shouldn’t have a problem running that ai to 3500-4000 for a prs style rifle. If you’re just blasting p-dogs or coyotes probably go farther depending on you’re expectations for it

 

[MarshallDodge]

The 75 Amax was a gem. I shot 5000 of them. They sadly are gone along with the2000 I sold. Shoot. (Shi*).

Agreed. I still have 600 but I wish I had more. ELD's work okay but are much higher priced for no reason that I can tell.

I'm playing with 77 RDF now and hoping they shoot well.

 

[JJ3]

I need a 223 AI 40* fl die, remove the expander stem. Follow with chosen mandrel and done?
Seat with a AI seater?
Two dies like straight 223?

Can anyone answer this?

 

[Gtar]

Can anyone answer this?

That's what I do with mine, a Redding FL die with the expander removed and then a mandrel to open the necks up to size. I use the Redding seating die but put a micrometer stem in it. I used a collet neck die for ages until I had a proper die set turn up, they got a bit tight after 4 or 5 firings.

 

[want to be]

This may be a dumb question, but after reading this post I got to thinking about a 223AI. I have an RPR in 223 that shoots very well but I don't use it much anymore after an Origin build in 223. What would I need to convert the RPR to 223AI or is it worth the time and money?

 

[spife7980]

This may be a dumb question, but after reading this post I got to thinking about a 223AI. I have an RPR in 223 that shoots very well but I don't use it much anymore after an Origin build in 223. What would I need to convert the RPR to 223AI or is it worth the time and money?

You can have the barrel you have now ackley improved.
Rechamber what you have or just put a new barrel on is all it takes.

 

[want to be]

I was thinking of a new barrel and keeping the original so that I could always go back. What barrel would you all suggest for an RPR?

 

[spife7980]

I was thinking of a new barrel and keeping the original so that I could always go back. What barrel would you all suggest for an RPR?

whatever one is available that you can find

 

[want to be]

How true that is in today's world. Also as post # 29 stated, help to make it a little clear for me. If I use my 223 FL die without the expander and use a 223 neck mandrel that I have existing I would still need a 223 seating die.

 

[spife7980]

How true that is in today's world. Also as post # 29 stated, help to make it a little clear for me. If I use my 223 FL die without the expander and use a 223 neck mandrel that I have existing I would still need a 223 seating die.

I dont understand what it is that you are getting at or could be confused about.

If you use your 223 die without an expander and use a 223 mandrel then you will still have 223 brass. Sizing dies are not seater dies. You clearly need a seater die if you want to do seating operations. A hammer is not a saw.

You will need a 223ai die to size 223 ai. If you take 223ai formed brass and insert it into a 223 die you will get 223.

 

[Yoteski]

I dont understand what it is that you are getting at or could be confused about.

If you use your 223 die without an expander and use a 223 mandrel then you will still have 223 brass. Sizing dies are not seater dies. You clearly need a seater die if you want to do seating operations. A hammer is not a saw.

You will need a 223ai die to size 223 ai. If you take 223ai formed brass and insert it into a 223 die you will get 223.

Yes . I'm also confused what you're asking.....
223 and 223ai are not the same, plan accordingly with dies.

 

[Yoteski]

Side bar:
Has anyone ran 88s with leverevolution? I think I might start experimenting as a Varget replacement.
My 223ai is probably the rifle I enjoy the most. I've ran 80s at 2950 and 88s at 2875 in a 24" Bartlein. I just have a light palma barrel so I can use it for coyotes, but I'm going to run it in a match in a couple weeks.
Anyone who says there's no gain over a standard 223 is crazy. I've yet to hit pressure in my hot loads with heavies up to 26 gr of Varget with 80s. The best part is primer pockets don't last long, which means I just run the bolt on my Origin a little faster and send them into the tall grass.
Best do-all cartridge out of a bolt gun IMO. I use it for coyotes, deer, practice sessions while forming brass, and now, matches.

 

[spife7980]

I've yet to hit pressure in my hot loads with heavies up to 26 gr of Varget with 80s. The best part is primer pockets don't last long,

 

[want to be]

Thank for clearing that up for me, as I said I didn't understand post# 29. For it was my understanding I would need dies for 223 AI the same as different dies for 6BR vs 6BRA.

 

[Yoteski]

You caught it!

 

[Gtar]

Side bar:
Has anyone ran 88s with leverevolution? I think I might start experimenting as a Varget replacement.
My 223ai is probably the rifle I enjoy the most. I've ran 80s at 2950 and 88s at 2875 in a 24" Bartlein. I just have a light palma barrel so I can use it for coyotes, but I'm going to run it in a match in a couple weeks.
Anyone who says there's no gain over a standard 223 is crazy. I've yet to hit pressure in my hot loads with heavies up to 26 gr of Varget with 80s. The best part is primer pockets don't last long, which means I just run the bolt on my Origin a little faster and send them into the tall grass.
Best do-all cartridge out of a bolt gun IMO. I use it for coyotes, deer, practice sessions while forming brass, and now, matches.

I'm running 88's with RL15, it works well. I wouldn't mind giving Leverevolution a go but it's not terribly common in Australia. Here's my RL15 velocity testing, your results may vary.

 

[nrspence]

I just got 8lbs of Reloader 15.5, looking forward to seeing how it does in a 223AI with 80.5 full bores and 85.5s.

 

[Moose]

Rl 15 has worked well for me in the 223AI and 75gr amax.

 

[Moose]

I just got 8lbs of Reloader 15.5, looking forward to seeing how it does in a 223AI with 80.5 full bores and 85.5s.

If you don't mind me asking where did you find Rl15?

 

[M4orturnate]

Can anyone answer this?

Yes

 

[M4orturnate]

Love mine so much im building another. Current is right at 3000 rounds launching 75g elds at 3000fps from a 20" barrel. Was 3050 but it slowed down a little. 26.5 varget for 75s 26.6g varget for 80s

 

[nrspence]

If you don't mind me asking where did you find Rl15?

I got the 15.5 8lb jug from Midsouth. Follow the powder in stock thread. A lot of powder is starting to pop up.

 

[Nortex]

I have 2 separate 223ai. I typically don’t run them too hard with 80gr vld at 2900 but it is safe in all conditions and shoots lights out.