223 Federal and Speer Ammo....interesting difference

[KM1]

Ok, received my batch of 223 Federal Premium Tactical 62gr Bonded SP, LE223T3 today. I pulled out a round and compared it to a round from my batch of Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 223 Rem. 62gr GDSP, 24445SP

Interesting...noticed a significant difference between the bullet size of the Federal round to the Speer round...with the Federal being smaller and the Speer being longer and appearing to be narrower.

Anyone able to explain this....what the differences might be between the two because of this? Just interested.

Federal on your left...Speer on your right in this photo.

 

[stello1001]

One is a soft point and the other not so much...

 

[bfoosh006]

Someone correct me if I am wrong... I thought the "LE223T3" is using the 62gr TBBC bullet, but loaded to .223 pressures.

The TBBC is a great bullet.... and all you give up is some yardage at .223 Pressures / Velocities.

Link has gel tests at the bottom... click on them to view.
http://www.le.vistaoutdoor.com/ammunition/federal/rifle/details.aspx?id=679

 

[Molon]

Ok, received my batch of 223 Federal Premium Tactical 62gr Bonded SP, LE223T3 today. I pulled out a round and compared it to a round from my batch of Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 223 Rem. 62gr GDSP, 24445SP

Interesting...noticed a significant difference between the bullet size of the Federal round to the Speer round...with the Federal being smaller and the Speer being longer and appearing to be narrower.

Anyone able to explain this....what the differences might be between the two because of this? Just interested.

Federal on your left...Speer on your right in this photo.

They are two different bullet designs. Why would you think that there wouldn't be a difference?

62 grain TBBC

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[Molon]

Someone correct me if I am wrong... I thought the "LE223T3" is using the 62gr TBBC bullet, but loaded to .223 pressures.

You are correct.


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[Molon]

One is a soft point and the other not so much...

They are both soft-points.


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[KM1]

One is a soft point and the other not so much...

I believe they are both soft point bullets.

 

[KM1]

They are two different bullet designs. Why would you think that there wouldn't be a difference?

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I was just surprised how much taller and seemingly narrower one was than the other. After examining your pictures in more detail it makes sense.

 

[Choid]

They are two different bullet designs. Why would you think that there wouldn't be a difference?

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I know you have tested both and was wondering if you saw much poi difference between the two loads.

 

[SBRSarge]

I know you have tested both and was wondering if you saw much poi difference between the two loads.This thread might be useful...

This thread might interest you. It doesn’t directly address your question, but is a general discussion of the two loads.

.223 Rounds for AR15

Ammunition is becoming VERY difficult to find...in most calibers. I have a new PWS MK116 Mod 2 rifle. I have yet to take it to the range and test it out let alone zero the optics on it...so I thought I might post here about ammunition. If someone here has the same rifle...or another PWS rifle...

www.snipershide.com

Anecdotally, in my rifles/experience, most loads impact reasonably close to each other at 100 yards, certainly close enough for center mass hits. At work we train with either 55gr or 62 gr FMJ, and carry the T3 loads for duty in our patrol carbines. With our Vortex UH-1 red dot sights we can’t tell any difference in POI between the FMJs and T3. I imagine the Gold Dots and T3s would be similar. This has been true both at my current department (SWS integrally suppressed guns) and former department (14.5” Colt rifles).

Were the use going to be something requiring more precision, then duty and practice would need to be more carefully selected, of course.

 

[Molon]

I know you have tested both and was wondering if you saw much poi difference between the two loads.

Many people seem to think (not saying you are one of those people) that the difference in the points of impact between two different loads is due solely to the difference in the exterior ballistics (trajectory) of the two loads. This of course is incorrect.

The difference in the points of impact between two different 5.56mm/.223 loads out to say 75-100 yards will be due in large part to matters of interior ballistics; barrel harmonics and recoil vectors for instance. These components may not be the same from rifle to rifle and are not simply predictable using ballistic software. My weapon might show a different change in the points of impact between different loads than your weapon. Long story short, the only way to know, is to shoot the different loads in your weapon.

To illustrate the above points with a specific example, the graph below shows that there is nearly no discernable difference in the trajectories of the Sierra 55 grain BlitzKing and the Hornady 70 grain GMX out to 100 yards.

Yet, when I actually fired the Hornady 70 grain GMX load from an AR-15 that had been zeroed for POA=POI at 100 yards with the 55 grain BlitzKings, the group of the 70 grain GMX impacted 2.9” LOW and 3.7” TO THE LEFT of the point of aim.

 

[MontanaMan]

Ok, received my batch of 223 Federal Premium Tactical 62gr Bonded SP, LE223T3 today. I pulled out a round and compared it to a round from my batch of Speer Gold Dot LE Duty 223 Rem. 62gr GDSP, 24445SP

Interesting...noticed a significant difference between the bullet size of the Federal round to the Speer round...with the Federal being smaller and the Speer being longer and appearing to be narrower.

Anyone able to explain this....what the differences might be between the two because of this? Just interested.

Federal on your left...Speer on your right in this photo.

Different bullet shapes / ogives..................way more common for them to be different than to be the same.

An elementary characteristic of bullets................I'm surprised such a question or comment would even come up on a forum like this.

I don't have any pics readily available but for a fairly extreme example, compare a Hornady 75 A-Max to a Sierra SMK. Both weigh 75 grains, very significantly different shape.

MM

 

[KM1]

Many people seem to think (not saying you are one of those people) that the difference in the points of impact between two different loads is due solely to the difference in the exterior ballistics (trajectory) of the two loads. This of course is incorrect.

The difference in the points of impact between two different 5.56mm/.223 loads out to say 75-100 yards will be due in large part to matters of interior ballistics; barrel harmonics and recoil vectors for instance. These components may not be the same from rifle to rifle and are not simply predictable using ballistic software. My weapon might show a different change in the points of impact between different loads than your weapon. Long story short, the only way to know, is to shoot the different loads in your weapon.

To illustrate the above points with a specific example, the graph below shows that there is nearly no discernable difference in the trajectories of the Sierra 55 grain BlitzKing and the Hornady 70 grain GMX out to 100 yards.

Yet, when I actually fired the Hornady 70 grain GMX load from an AR-15 that had been zeroed for POA=POI at 100 yards with the 55 grain BlitzKings, the group of the 70 grain GMX impacted 2.9” LOW and 3.7” TO THE LEFT of the point of aim.

...





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No graph image???

 

[Choid]

Many people seem to think (not saying you are one of those people) that the difference in the points of impact between two different loads is due solely to the difference in the exterior ballistics (trajectory) of the two loads. This of course is incorrect.

The difference in the points of impact between two different 5.56mm/.223 loads out to say 75-100 yards will be due in large part to matters of interior ballistics; barrel harmonics and recoil vectors for instance. These components may not be the same from rifle to rifle and are not simply predictable using ballistic software. My weapon might show a different change in the points of impact between different loads than your weapon. Long story short, the only way to know, is to shoot the different loads in your weapon.

To illustrate the above points with a specific example, the graph below shows that there is nearly no discernable difference in the trajectories of the Sierra 55 grain BlitzKing and the Hornady 70 grain GMX out to 100 yards.

Yet, when I actually fired the Hornady 70 grain GMX load from an AR-15 that had been zeroed for POA=POI at 100 yards with the 55 grain BlitzKings, the group of the 70 grain GMX impacted 2.9” LOW and 3.7” TO THE LEFT of the point of aim.

...





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Understood. In my experience you are likely to see bigger poi shifts going from jacketed to monometal than from jacketed 62 to jacketed 62. I am assuming because of significantly different internal ballistics.

 

[Molon]

No graph image???

That was weird. Try viewing it now.

I just noticed that most of my other images on this forum have been deleted. So either I've been hacked, or this site has been hacked.

 

[KM1]

That was weird. Try viewing it now.

I just noticed that most of my other images on this forum have been deleted. So either I've been hacked, or this site has been hacked.

Yea.....something is really weird.....no images shown. I am on a PC...but that shouldn't make any difference. Hmmmmm......

I went to some other posts/comments by you.....NOTHING....no images.....really weird. They are of GREAT help....wonder what's going on???

 

[Badfinger]

Did you weigh the bullets?

 

[Molon]

Yea.....something is really weird.....no images shown. I am on a PC...but that shouldn't make any difference. Hmmmmm......

I went to some other posts/comments by you.....NOTHING....no images.....really weird. They are of GREAT help....wonder what's going on???

It's very strange and it's not just this website. My linked images from two different image hosts are failing to show up all over the Internet. I uploaded the images for this thread directly to this site so they should be showing up now. Let me know if they're not.

 

[KM1]

It's very strange and it's not just this website. My linked images from two different image hosts are failing to show up all over the Internet. I uploaded the images for this thread directly to this site so they should be showing up now. Let me know if they're not.

YES...they are now ALL SHOWING. What is crazy is the first post you made, originally, had the images up....I remember seeing them early on in the post. Then the other images I never saw up....upon going back to the images that I saw...those were then gone as well.

AND the images are important as they give a solid visual to all you explain. That was weird!!!