Hunting & Fishing .223 For Deer Hunting

[Shane Miller]

Morning All;

I'm not real skilled at finding stuff in here.... so if this question has been asked before .... I apologize.

I decided to try my hand at .223 deer hunting.
I will be using either a 16" or 20" barrel with a 1:9 twist.
Since I have never hunted with a .223 ; I was looking for a round that would put the deer down if i do my part. IF possible ; a few suggestions would help as not every rifle likes the same ammo.

I'm not looking to get into an ethical debate on the use of it, as its legal here and just wanted to try something new. But i posted the question so that if i do my part; it will be an ethical kill with as least amount of pain as possible.

Thanks to everyone that replies.... just incase I miss thanking someone before hand.

 

[XLR308]

If you reload that would be your best bet.
Choose the right bullet and you shouldn't have any issues, the Barnes TSX, Swift Scirroco or Nosler Partition would all be excellent choices.

 

[FIRE_9]

.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

DON'T HAVE TIME TO READ 176 PAGES? HERE'S THE CHEAT SHEET. “Bullets matter more than headstamps.” “Spent primers offer the supreme tutorial”. I’ve read it here and elsewhere online. It got my attention. I started digging and asking questions and listened. The 77gr TMK delivered by a .223...

www.rokslide.com

 

[FXDWG]

I've been hunting deer with a 223 for the last few years using anything from bulk 55 grain soft points to 75 grain Hornady HPBT on deer ranging in size from little great dane sized deer, mature does, and a pretty big Kansas buck that walked out the last day of rifle season. The only one that ran went 30 yards with a hole in its heart, it was a chest shot on a small doe staring at me from 150 yards with a bulk 55 grain soft point. What I've found, at least on Kansas deer in early December is a 223 doesn't seem to make them as jumpy as a 30-06 does. On multiple occasions I've shot one deer, watched it drop, then shoot the one next to it a few seconds later. Where as with my larger center fires, I shoot one, the others kick it in to high gear and are gone immediately.

 

[Wading]

I'd say Barnes TSX 55 grain. If your rifle doesn't like those, a second choice could be the Nosler Partition 60 grain.

In larger calibers, I'd almost say it's more valuable to find the most accurate bullet designed for deer, rather than bullet construction. In .223 I'd put my highest emphasis on bullet construction. Other than that, with the right ammo, many have proved the .223 to be an adequate choice.

 

[Odindad]

I like the Winchester 64 gr Power Point. It mushrooms well. I have tried Barnes TSX as well. Do not try a lung shot with the Barnes. I shot two does in the ribs and they never knew they were hit. Just continued walking about a 100 yds and fell over. Never seen anything like it. Barnes are great for shoulder shots. Usually breaks both shoulders ,stopping under the hide with minimal meat damage.

 

[steelsnob47]

.223 is perfect for deer, with a few important points though. ..you have to use a slow expansion bullet. keep shots under 150 yards. obviously others here will debate but believe me. my picks are barnes tsx as mentioned above or better winchester deer season...the bullet has to be slow expanding.
what not to do...dont use varmint rounds up close, no penetrate
dont use fmj or matchkings far out. theyll wound but not good enuf
do not try headshots they nearly never work on deer anatomy
ok let flames start .

 

[gunjunkie45]

70 grain Barnes TSX has worked really well for me. I used 5.56 for a few seasons out of a 14.5 inch Noveske project ARES. I only had one doe not drop on the spot. 3 does and one decent buck taken. All Wisconsin deer.

 

[Cjl2010]

What’s your max range you intend to hunt at?

 

[Simonsza1]

Had shoulder surgery 1998 a few weeks before hunting season started. Obviously couldn’t pull back the bow and the 270 at the time was my only deer rifle and I was apprehensive about the recoil on my rehabbing shoulder. So I took my first ar a colt sporter with Hornady tap 75gr and killed two bucks. One went about 150yds but the shot wasn’t amazing the other was a flawless shot and he went 10 yards with a five gallon bucket worth of blood on the ground. My only experience but it worked just fine. My friends son grew up killing lots of deer with a 204 and it always worked also. Just need to put those rounds in the breadbasket, treat your shots like an archery shot and pay attention to things like a quarter away or dead broadside being ideal. I agree with the replies suggesting the Barnes. Switched to Barnes on all my hunting calibers that I reload for and there amazing except for the 22-250 still rock the 55 vmax for that! Good luck.

 

[shax2lex]

I am going to deer hunting with my AR-15 this year too. I use it for match shooting and had match ammo created. I am going to use it. It’s 77gr SMK at 2,820fps out an 18in Seekins 3G2. One thing I am going to is limit my shots to 150yds like previously mentioned and go for neck/head shots.

if you haven’t already purchased the barrel, then I would suggest you look for a 1-8twist or faster barrel to shoot heavier bullets. Also, I’d check your group size. Minute of Man From lower quality ARs may not be the best for hunting with this smaller caliber. Just a thought.

 

[steelsnob47]

I am going to deer hunting with my AR-15 this year too. I use it for match shooting and had match ammo created. I am going to use it. It’s 77gr SMK at 2,820fps out an 18in Seekins 3G2. One thing I am going to is limit my shots to 150yds like previously mentioned and go for neck/head shots.

if you haven’t already purchased the barrel, then I would suggest you look for a 1-8twist or faster barrel to shoot heavier bullets. Also, I’d check your group size. Minute of Man From lower quality ARs may not be the best for hunting with this smaller caliber. Just a thought.

i read those 77's should ninji star above 2500ish fps so let that guide your range.

 

[STex]

I love my .223's and find myself taking one instead of the more traditional deer calibers. They are low-recoiling, accurate, and will do their work as long as you do yours. Like folks mentioned, limit your shots to about 150 yds. or so, use a good bullet and concentrate on shot placement. Even better if you can shoot it suppressed. Good luck and stay safe

 

[RTH1800]

.223 is fine in my experience.

Most bullets work well when properly placed.
Barnes work great as does the 77 grain SMK.

Suggest 7 twist barrel.

Avoid neck and head shots.
Due to lower energy level a slight imperfection in shot placement can result in a lost animal.

As with any caliber one animal out of about 150-200 will require a second shot or not be recovered. I don’t see this happen any more with a .223 than with a .308. I try to be objective and it does not make sense that the 30 caliber is not more effective but it does not appear to make a bit of difference.

 

[HousePlant]

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I've used that. Works well from my Savage Axis (which has been modified heavily to not be terrible)... with proper placement. I prefer a .308, though.

I do not feel comfortable using .223 >100 yards because I want that deer to expire toot sweet. I would not want to feel that pain, and I don't want the deer to for long.

 

[diggler1833]

Shot placement is much more critical, but the .223 is not an unethical cartridge for deer.

I've not used one on a deer, but I've killed quite a few hogs with the Mk 318 Mod 0 62gr bullet, and a handful with older 64gr Speer Gold Dots.

My last .223-killed boar measured 230lbs, and was shot at about 60 yards in the center of the neck as he was quartering towards me. It was with the Gold Dot ammo. The bullet actually exited at the shoulder of the opposite side where the shield is thickest. That's > 12" penetration through some of the toughest parts of an animal that is much more stout than a deer...and there was enough energy transfer to drop the hog in place...it simply nose dived and kicked for about 30 seconds.

I'd trust heavier bonded or all copper bullets in a .223, but I'd also stick to ranges under 200 yards. There are at least a half dozen viable options out there.

Pics for reference on the boar. Entry and exit.

 

[hino895]

Was hunting a ridge line in Augusta county West Virginia several years back with a .223.
Two does came walking up to me, shot the first one in the head at 50 yards she didn’t flinch.
Second doe ran around a big circle stopped right beside the first so shot the second one in the head she didn’t flinch either.
No tracking no hemorrhaging meat in the freezer.
223 works fine.

 

[RTH1800]

For head shots, which I do not recommend I would suggest a .204 due to trajectory and shock effect. I much prefer a heavy .223 through a shoulder.

 

[rebelbuck24]

I use 62 Gr Hornady and federal soft points with good results.

 

[Lange Carabine]

I do crop damage control for local farmers and have probably killed several hundred deer with a .222 or .223.
I've used a variety of factory and hand loads with 55gr M193,62gr Gold Dots 63gr Sierra smp, 64gr Winchester PP, 70gr Speer amp, 68 & 75gr Hornady bthp and Nosler 77gr CC bullets. One seemed to work just as good as the other. All were one shot kills. Some were head/neck shots but most somewhere in the vitals. None that ran went more than 50 yds.
My all time favorite is plain old M193 ball, 75gr Hornady's are a close second.
This one I killed with M193 ball at around 165yds the last day of the 2019 season.

 

[BCX]

Would like to kill one w Black Hills Optimized 50 grain.

 

[sparky702]

since you have a 1/9 twist barrel I would suggest the 64 grain Winchester or a 65 grain Sierra game king .

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Mossberg MVP Predator. Federal MSR Fusion 223. Bushnell AR Drop Zone BDC 223. Simmons Hunting Laser Rangefinder Venture/Tilt.

These are the components of my smaller bore deer system. They are the best I can find of each type of component. One must still understand that even with these advantages, the 223/5.56 cartridge is only a deer-capable cartridge under more favorable conditions. I would not seriously expect a clean, DRT kill beyond 150yd. Shot placement is more critical with smaller energies and projectiles.

The same components are also available designed around the .308 cartridge, and the 6.5CM.

Predator 6.5CM. Fed Fusion 6.5CM. Bushnell AR Drop Zone BDC 6.5 Creed.

The Federal Fusion cartridge line is based on a specially designed and constructed bonded bullet. It is functionally similar, and nearly identical in design to the Speer Gold Dot bullet, a product of another company under the same corporate umbrella as Federal. I am especially impressed with how these bullets combine accuracy, very good terminal performance, and some quite desirable, if not fully match grade BC value. I'm working at converting my working rifles' handloads over to use the Speer Gold Dot rifle bullets.

Now, I'm going to tell you right away that these Drop Zone BDC scopes are out of production, and are not coming back.

If you want one, buy it NOW, because the residual stock is fading away fast. I think they represent an excellent product and I will miss being able to recommend them when it's gone.

They provide a nearly unique capability to lase the distance to target, bring up the rifle and choose a good hold on the BDC reticle for the distance, then fire; all in one simple process, without fiddling with any knobs.

I have briefly conversed with the producers' rep, and the message is that these scopes did not sell enough to be worthwhile producing. Fair enough, but still, a disappointment; I really like the product, enough so to have equipped all of my working rifles with (9 of) those scopes.

So, unless I've missed something, the Bushnell Drop Zone BDC reticle scopes are soon to be history.

A differing version utilizing interchangeable (for chambering) marked knobs is in production, and should work as advertised, but would also require a knob adjustment to put a usable aiming reference onto the target. It's a change I'm not thrilled about, but my pleasure is not a critical factor in anyone's development/marketing strategies.

A version of the BDC reticle is still available, from Vortex, as their Dead Hold Reticle. It appears to be a more generic approach, without custom reticles to match specific chamberings, but with some acclimation, should work as well.

I'd go more into the 'how' of it, but I already have my solution, and there are others here capable of doing that process at least as well as I could.

Greg

 

[RTH1800]

Greg,
Your system sounds good.
With all due respect you are underestimating the effectiveness of the .223 on deer. Deer die just as easily at 500 yards as at 100 with good bullet placement.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

I find it strange that you guys recommend less then 150 yards

77gr tmk stop being explosive and start acting like typical hunting bullets right at 2400fps or so.. right at 150 yards

inside of 150 take care with shot selection, surprised if you get exits on mule deer if you clip scapula or big bone up close..

150 to 500 shoot however you would with ur typical 270 130gr loads..

 

[Ndbowhunter]

 

[Snuby642]

As long as a competent shooter has the patience and opportunity to wait for a high percentage shot no problems.

Maybe not the best thing for a beginners first deer or a person pumped up by seeking horns.

A perfectly viable round for cool calm harvesting.

If you're in harvest / cull mode, harvest protocol / selection , shot placement, extraction ease decisions will have calmed you down to the point a solid placement is not so difficult.

Short version.

If you use fmj you had better practice and be calm.

 

[Lange Carabine]

IMO, anyone who isnt a competent shooter or lacks the patients to wait for the perfect shot or be willing let the animal pass if it doesnt present it has no business hunting. Period.
In some European countries hunters must first prove that they are competent marksmen before they are allowed to hunt.
It should be that way here.
My family runs a deer/hog processing business and the number of gut shot animals come in is unbelieveable. I not referring to the ones that resulted from steep quartering shots, I'm talking full broadside shots. Sometimes people bring in animals 3-4 hours after dark because they had to trail it or find somebody with a trail dog to find it because of their impatience or flat out lousey shooting.
Sorry for the rant, stuff like this gets my goat. And it'll all start back up 1st thing in the a.m. as deer season opens in some parts of S.C. tomorrow.

 

[BCX]

Dam deer opens in August? I believe one of the few states, where you can harvest a buck in velvet?

 

[Ndbowhunter]

Alaska has been open for a while.

plenty of depredation tags out there.

hawaii is year round

 

[AE287]

I’ve killed quite a few with the 64grain PowerPoint. A .223 will kill them as dead as anything, but like others said, you need to have good shot placement. If the bullet doesn’t pass through, then you will basically have no blood trail. Makes things difficult. If you take your time and make a nice broadside shot with a well constructed bullet, it should punch on through. That way if the animal doesn’t drop you are not wandering around aimlessly looking for where it went. I lost several when I was younger and hunting with varmint bullets. The bullet would fragment and deer would run with no blood trail unless shot placement was perfect into the shoulder bone and heart.

 

[shooter65]

I like Barnes TSX 70 gr.

 

[RTH1800]

Anyone shooting body shots on deer with the FMJ bullet will need to be a good tracker and will still not recover a lot of them.

 

[Lange Carabine]

Anyone shooting body shots on deer with the FMJ bullet will need to be a good tracker and will still not recover a lot of them.

Body shots , I would tend to agree. But put it through the vitals and they die PDQ. I've yet to loose one shot with M193 ball or have one run much over 50 yds if it runs at all.
I've also killed them with Yugo 7.62mm M67 ball, .303 Mk.7/Greek L1a1, .30-06 M2 and 7.92x57mm S ball. Never lost one yet.

 

[RTH1800]

Vitals=body shot vs CNS shots.

If you shoot many you will lose some. Even coyotes and bobcats will get away a good percentage of the time.Deer you might kill 5-10 in a row but also will have runs where you lose 1/2 of them with well placed shots.

 

[Lange Carabine]

I have never, I repeat, never lost a single deer or hog I've shot with FMJ's. Not saying others havent or that I wont in the future but it hasn't happened to me yet, and I've been killing these pests since 1979.
And thanks for the body shot = vitals clarification, you'd probably be surprised at the number of people that dont understand that.

 

[RTH1800]

Your excellent experience with FMJ bullets defies logic and the experience of all others that I know.

I have shot deer in open fields, perfect shot placement, and watched them travel 3-400 yards and fall over. No way other than luck or a tracking dog to recover one like that in heavy cover. No blood trail, too many tracks to isolate an individual animal.

Your reported results are either extreme luck or a relatively small sample size. Even on the tiny deer in SC.

Regardless of your reported success it makes no sense to utilize a FMJ bullet on wildlife other than an emergency situation. They are not safe to let bounce around livestock, humans or equipment. They are illegal for hunting in most states, and less reliable killers in all cases.

 

[dskoruppa]

I have started using Lehigh bullets. I shot a deer last year with a 9mm and 45 acp using their bullets. Neither made it 30 yards. The bullets ate awesome. Watch their videos.

.224 High Velocity Controlled Chaos Copper 62gr Bullet

www.lehighdefense.com

Here is a video i did with 223 at distance on deer

 

[Lange Carabine]

Your excellent experience with FMJ bullets defies logic and the experience of all others that I know.

I have shoot deer in open fields, perfect shot placement, and watched them travel 3-400 yards and fall over. No way other than luck or a tracking dog to recover one like that in heavy cover. No blood trail, too many tracks to isolate an individual animal.

Your reported results are either extreme luck or a relatively small sample size. Even on the tiny deer in SC.

Regardless of your reported success it makes no sense to utilize a FMJ bullet on wildlife other than an emergency situation. They are not safe to let bounce around livestock, humans or equipment. They are illegal for hunting in most states, and less reliable killers in all cases.

You mad, or just jealous?
ETA: " I have shoot deer in open fields, perfect shot placement, and watch them travel 3-400 yards and fall over". What were you shooting them with?

 

[AE287]

You mad, or just jealous?

I certainly believe you when you say FMJ kills them, but I am skeptical when you say you have never lost one ever if you have killed hundreds. I think we just all acknowledge that they will certainty kill a deer but it wouldn’t be the first thing most of us would recommend to this guy.

 

[RTH1800]

Not angry at all. Simply pointing out politely that you are wrong. There is a name for those that claim to have killed hundreds of wild free range animals without losing even one. Again your “experience” is so exceptional and contrary to my own and other reliable and experienced observers that I find it extraordinary.

Average mature doe weight on my property is over 200 pounds at age 3 plus early in the season. Mature bucks go from 250-320# early season as well. My yearling fawns are larger than mature does in the SC .

My experience culling and hunting is worldwide and under various regulations and conditions. Including SC.

I realize you will not learn anything from me or anyone else. I post this for those who are capable of reason.

FMJ bullets bounce and change direction far more than HP or SP bullets. This will be obvious to anyone who shoots on a flat field with little or no ground cover. (Dust) This is inarguable to those with the capacity to observe. It is also the reason they are illegal in many areas. That and the fact that due to not expanding they don’t shed energy in the animal or on impact after exiting the animal nearly as much as an expanding bullet. So, they are intact and traveling with high energy. Often diverging from the original line of travel 30-40 deg. Ever shoot
tracers (FMJ )at night? They are slightly less stable than a standard FMJ but both diverge far more than expanding bullets.

Anyway, drive on. I’m sure reasonable people will understand why FMJ bullets are a poor choice for hunting.

 

[Lange Carabine]

I certainly believe you when you say FMJ kills them, but I am skeptical when you say you have never lost one ever if you have killed hundreds. I think we just all acknowledge that they will certainty kill a deer but it wouldn’t be the first thing most of us would recommend to this guy.

It does sound odd, I'll admit. But I have no reason to lie about it.
Maybe I am just lucky, or maybe it's because I tend to show a little more patience waiting for just the right shot with fmj's, idk.
I've lost more deer than I should have to perfectly placed soft points. Go figure.

 

[Lange Carabine]

Not angry at all. Simply pointing out politely that you are wrong. There is a name for those that claim to have killed hundreds of wild free range animals without losing even one. Again your “experience” is so exceptional and contrary to my own and other reliable and experienced observers that I find it extraordinary.

Average mature doe weight on my property is over 200 pounds at age 3 plus early in the season. Mature bucks go from 250-320# early season as well. My yearling fawns are larger than mature does in the SC .

My experience culling and hunting is worldwide and under various regulations and conditions. Including SC.

I realize you will not learn anything from me or anyone else. I post this for those who are capable of reason.

FMJ bullets bounce and change direction far more than HP or SP bullets. This will be obvious to anyone who shoots on a flat field with little or no ground cover. (Dust) This is inarguable to those with the capacity to observe. It is also the reason they are illegal in many areas. That and the fact that due to not expanding they don’t shed energy in the animal or on impact after exiting the animal nearly as much as an expanding bullet. So, they are intact and traveling with high energy. Often diverging from the original line of travel 30-40 deg. Ever shoot
tracers (FMJ )at night? They




So, you saw me original post before I deleted it, good.
Wasn't aware there was a polite way to call somebody a liar simply because you are unwilling to accept the fact that other can have experiences that differ from yours.
Answer this:
Have you ever shot any deer with fmj bullets?

 

[Lange Carabine]

I "Rammed" this tiny sc deer last November at 50 mph with my Dodge 1500. Full broadside right in the grill.
Dont know how far it took me to get stopped but he was in the ditch right beside me so that's how far the impact knocked him.
Not only was he still alive, but when I went back to get my pistol to finish him off he got up and ran off through the woods. A neighbor found him later on in the morning about 100 yards away.
Wonder how much kinetic energy a Ram 1500 going 50 mph generates?

 

[Lange Carabine]

.223 is fine in my experience.

Most bullets work well when properly placed.
Barnes work great as does the 77 grain SMK.

Suggest 7 twist barrel.

Avoid neck and head shots.
Due to lower energy level a slight imperfection in shot placement can result in a lost animal.

As with any caliber one animal out of about 150-200 will require a second shot or not be recovered. I don’t see this happen any more with a .223 than with a .308. I try to be objective and it does not make sense that the 30 caliber is not more effective but it does not appear to make a bit of difference.

You claim my experience with fmj bullets defies all logic but admit you cant understand why a 308 isnt more effective than a 223?
Reckon it has to do with the fact that blowing holes in vital organs isn't conducive to a long health life?

 

[Lange Carabine]

For head shots, which I do not recommend I would suggest a .204 due to trajectory and shock effect. I much prefer a heavy .223 through a shoulder.

You dont recommend killing deer with fmj bullets and here you don't recommend headshots.
What, exactly, is your problem with headshots? Not good enough to pull it off? Get too nervous?
Do worry, your not alone in condemning headshots.
For a very brief moment this teeny tiny sc deer didnt think much of them either.
110gr bthp from my 6.8mm right up the left nostril. A mind blowing experience.
Jack Russel trying to revive him with mouth to mouth resuscitation......

 

[RTH1800]

You win, carry on.

 

[Lange Carabine]

.223 is fine in my experience.

Most bullets work well when properly placed.
Barnes work great as does the 77 grain SMK.

It is written:
"Sierra does not recommend Matchking bullets for hunting"
Your logic defies all logic....

 

[Snuby642]

Suppose you guys would cry if someone liked to use 300blk subs.

Thud crunch drop.

 

[Lange Carabine]

Suppose you guys would cry if someone liked to use 300blk subs.

Thud crunch drop.

Not me bud. I got no problems at all with it.