.223 vs. .223AI...advice?

[Target07]

What is the difference in .223 and .223AI? What are the advantages/disadvantages etc. Do you have to purchase special brass to reload the .223 Ackley Improved? What all does the reloading entail? I keep hearing the term "fire forming"? Anyways, I am doing a build and I was originally going to go w/ a .223 chambering but have been considering .223AI. Just trying to figure out which way to go and what would be best for my particular applictation. It will be used for coyote hunting and punching paper...maybe some deer hunting. Also, I am new to reloading and have not handloaded before. I have several friends who have been doing it for a few years but I have not. So, w/ that said, would it be better to go w/ a standard .223 to learn how to reload? Any advis is appreciated.

 

[JCH]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

223AI Pros: a 10% gain in velocity, which allows easier shooting of the heavier bullets at long ranges. I shoot the 75gr Amax. (to do this you will need at least an 8 twist barrel)
To fireform simply load up a stout 223 Rem load, put it in the chamber and pull the trigger. Done. Now your brass doesn't have to trimmed but every 5-6 firings.
when your in a pinch you can hunt using 223 Rem ammo, the brass will be fireformed when your done.

Cons: Can't shoot F-Class with a 223AI if you decide to take that up.
You have to buy a set of 223AI reloading dies, usually the 3 piece redding runs $115 or so.

You use the same brass as the 223Rem, it just has a sharper shoulder. Reloading is easier since you don't have to trim brass and bump shoulders very much.

As far as a deer load, I plan to run the 62gr Barnes TSX to hammer Oklahoma whitetails. (hopefully the velocity will be around 3350)

 

[Target07]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

JCH,
Thanks for the info. I should be o.k. on the barrel as I just ordered a Kreiger 1/8 twist #17 HV contour barrel. I will have to do some more research but it sounds like the only thing that I would really need is the .223AI dies (along w/ the other reloading stuff that a newb needs)...if I can use standard .223 brass the .223ai sounds like the way to go.

 

[MTETM]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

Feeding of the AI may be an issue. Some folks have problems with internal mags feeding. The AI systems work well and I have read folks having success with Seekins mag system.

Dies, buy the Lee's, they are 25 or so dollars and work just fine. I have loaded thousands with mine and never had a problem.
Love the AI's.

 

[Target07]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

Feeding of the AI may be an issue. Some folks have problems with internal mags feeding.quote]

I will be running an internal mag (BDL). Hopefully this won't be an issue but if it is what can be done other than purchasing some aftermarket bottom metal w/ a detachable box mag?

 

[darrenk75b]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

Many people have successfully run factory mag boxes. The steep shoulder on the AI round has been known to make feeding less smooth on some people's rifles.

 

[shooter65]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

Read this.

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

and this..

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=471066&gonew=1

 

[Target07]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: shooter65</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Read this.

http://www.6mmbr.com/223Rem.html

and this..

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=471066&gonew=1</div></div>

Good read. Thanks.

 

[MTETM]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

Darrenk75b has it correct. Some internal magazines have a rough time feeding the steep shoulders of the AI. I have seen some feed and other not be very reliable. I would give it a try.

I am sure there are some folks here that can comment on how to make the 223ai feed more reliably from an internal mag.
Hopefully someone will chime in.

 

[Keith Johns]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

Owned an ackley before... NOT worth it IMO if you have to fire form.

If the cartridge cant do what you need it to do before "improving", it's barely going to work anyways.

Especially with the cost of reloading now and trying to find primers.

I'll never fire form again

If you can buy the brass formed, miight be worth it

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

definetly get the 223ai you can get close to 22-250 performance with alot less powder. I shot my savage 223ai custom with 50gr vmax at 3650fps and 75gr amax at 3050fps out of a 26" barrel. plus it still shot black hills at 3/4moa. I don't see were you can lose if you don't reload it will be easy to sell fireformed brass on here and if you do reload you get the speed advantage and lack of trimming out of the 223ai.

 

[Hunt]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

If for no other reason, the .223AI makes sense from a trimming standpoint. Very minimal trimming (if any) and changes the persona of the .223 with a tight twist barrel.

 

[pj68]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

Guys,
Correct me if i'm wrong. Doesn't the AI shorten the case, change the shoulder angle, blowing out the body angle? I hear it reduces the bolt thrust and lengthens the case life. I have never tried an AI but the idea seems like a good one.

SOTA

 

[JCH]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

i have some new Lapua brass for when I get my Surgeon 223AI done and some fireformed brass. i will measure when I get home.

I don't think it changes the overall length of the cartridge. But yes it does extend brass life.

 

[9H_Cracka]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

"Cons: Can't shoot F-Class with a 223AI if you decide to take that up."

You most certainly CAN shoot F-Class with a 223 AI.

3100 FPS is possible with an 80 SMK and a standard 223 case using a long barrel and some diligence around load testing. That is fast enough for me. The AI helps shorter barrel guns get the velocity up into the 3k range. If you want to be there and run a shorter barrel, then get the AI chambering.

 

[JPro]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

I'm really liking my 223AI that I put together on a 700 with a 1-8" twist Pac-nor. I originally had it at 23" but cut it back to 21" for better balance and more "handiness".

It is no problem to run 50's at 3,650fps, 75's at 3,050fps, or 62 TSX's at 3,350fps. My gun runs factory BDL guts and I modified the box by cutting out the factory spacer and J-B Welding in a .25" aluminum spacer.

The feeding/functioning is fine, although it will sometimes bobble if you creep the bolt forward very slowly with lighter bullets at shorter OAL's. Bolting at any kind of reasonable speed results in perfect feeding. See photobucket video link below. That was a full magazine of mixed AI and virgin hulls loaded with various bullets from 50-80 grains. That much bolt speed is not needed.

Feeding/Function Video

 

[Target07]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

Thanks for all of the info gents. I think I am going to just keep it as a .223rem right now until I get all of my reloading stuff (may be some time down the road). I will eventually have it rechambered for the .223ai but not right now. Thanks again.

 

[JCH]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"Cons: Can't shoot F-Class with a 223AI if you decide to take that up."

You most certainly CAN shoot F-Class with a 223 AI.

</div></div>

I meant you have to shoot open class, can't shoot with the 223 and 308's.

 

[pj68]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

Guys,
From what i gather the 223 AI is .004 under minimum go gauge. Shortening the case neck, changing the shoulder angle, minimum body taper all part of making an AI.
If i remember the best way to fire form the cases is to jam the bullet into the lands. That way it holds the brass to the bolt face forcing the body to minimize taper and changes the shoulder angle.

SOTA

 

[montyb]

Re: .223 vs. .223AI...advice?

no need to jam if you don't want to. the .004" crush holds the case solidly in place for the fireforming. this applies only if the chamber was cut correctly. barrels with standard chambers need to be set back when chambered for AI cartridges so they will have the .004" crush.

if someone just ran a AI reamer into a standard chamber without setting the barrel back, then you would need to jam.