.223 Wylde OAL with Hornady 75 ELD-M

[Packfan]

Just got a new barreled action from Keystone Accuracy in .223 Wylde, Origin action with a Rock Creek 7 twist cut rifled barrel. After 3 shots to zero with Federal GMM 69 SMK, the next 2 groups were .425 and .350. Looking good! Stopped there to do an initial cleaning.

Now on to develop a load for Hornady 75 ELD-M's. I have H4895 and Varget to try based on what I have seen on the site. When measuring OAL length for the 75 ELD-M with the Hornady tool, I get some interesting results. I feel some initial resistance at 2.385 OAL. Pushing a little harder, I get a definitive stop at 2.500 OAL, 1.940 to the Ogive.

I don't think I am jammed, as the bullet is not stuck in the lands and releases with the tool. The initial resistance at 2.385 seems short based on other's measurements that I have seen here. I think I should go with the 2.500, but I may back off something like .035 to start.

What do you guys think?

 

[Lunchbox27]

I think you need to clean the barrel, then strip the bolt. Remove the ejector and find your lands correctly, instead of guessing.

 

[Packfan]

I think you need to clean the barrel, then strip the bolt. Remove the ejector and find your lands correctly, instead of guessing.

I cleaned the barrel prior to taking any measurements. I understand the method you recommend is likely more accurate and I may give it a try. I will have to research how to remove the ejector on the Origin bolt.

I wonder if anyone has measured the relative accuracy of both methods to see how far off the Hornady tool may be. Either method provides a starting point that should be varied later to find an exact sweet spot, so being a little off (depending on how much) may not make a practical difference in the long haul.

There is also a lot of experience on the site with .223 Wylde and the 75 ELD-M (maybe even with Keystone's reamer), so I was also hoping to leverage that knowledge.

 

[jakelly]

There is no ejector on an Origin bolt. You’re already there. Just remove the firing pin (turn the shroud lefty loosey) and your bolt is stripped.

 

[Packfan]

There is no ejector on an Origin bolt. You’re already there.

Duh. That's right, the Origin action has a mechanical ejector.

 

[918v]

There is no need to do any of that. Cut a slit in the neck of a case sized to fit your chamber. Seat the bullet in the neck long. Push the case holding the bullet into the chamber till the shoulder bottoms out. The lands will push the bullet deeper into the neck. The lands will also grab the bullet a little so don't use the bolt for this. Push the case and the bullet out using a cleaning rod from the barrel end. Measure the coal.

 

[Molon]

The free-bore of the 223 Wylde chamber has a diameter of .224". The initial resistance that you're feeling is likely the ogive coming into contact with the free-bore and the position of the second resistance is more likely the contact with the actual lands.

 

[padom]

Just got a new barreled action from Keystone Accuracy in .223 Wylde, Origin action with a Rock Creek 7 twist cut rifled barrel. After 3 shots to zero with Federal GMM 69 SMK, the next 2 groups were .425 and .350. Looking good! Stopped there to do an initial cleaning.

Now on to develop a load for Hornady 75 ELD-M's. I have H4895 and Varget to try based on what I have seen on the site. When measuring OAL length for the 75 ELD-M with the Hornady tool, I get some interesting results. I feel some initial resistance at 2.385 OAL. Pushing a little harder, I get a definitive stop at 2.500 OAL, 1.940 to the Ogive.

I don't think I am jammed, as the bullet is not stuck in the lands and releases with the tool. The initial resistance at 2.385 seems short based on other's measurements that I have seen here. I think I should go with the 2.500, but I may back off something like .035 to start.

What do you guys think?

0.249-0.250 is where you should touching with 75 ELD in .223 Wylde....I have keystone 223wylde TL3 barrels here I shot 75 ELD and 80 Amax out of with h4895 and varget... hammers


75 ELD H4895 OCW





75 ELD H4895 seating test



75 ELD Varget OCW



75 ELD Varget seating teest

 

[Packfan]

The free-bore of the 223 Wylde chamber has a diameter of .224". The initial resistance that you're feeling is likely the ogive coming into contact with the free-bore and the position of the second resistance is more likely the contact with the actual lands.

Thanks for the info. Makes sense.

 

[Packfan]

0.249-0.250 is where you should touching with 75 ELD in .223 Wylde....I have keystone 223wylde TL3 barrels here I shot 75 ELD and 80 Amax out of with h4895 and varget... hammers


75 ELD H4895 OCW





75 ELD H4895 seating test



75 ELD Varget OCW



75 ELD Varget seating teest

Thanks Padom. Do you mean 2.490 - 2.500 inches OAL to touch the lands?

I got 2.500 OAL with the Hornady tool and just measured 2.490 using the Wheeler method. There was a difference between the 2 methods as I think I was pushing a tad hard on the Hornady plunger to get past the initial resistance I felt. This resistance was unnoticeable with the Wheeler method.

I see that you went with .015 off the lands. I may start with .020 and adjust accordingly.

Also, thanks for the load data for H4895 and Varget. Impressive results. I plan on using Winchester brass and Federal GM205M primers.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

With the floating bolt head design of the zermatt actions, you need to clean off the barrel pin that the firing pin goes through. The firing pin keeps this barrel pin from sliding "left or right" so if there is any lube at all on it, when you take the firing pin out and go to set the bolt down in the closed position, that barrel pin may want to fall out, which will then leave your bolt head in the gun. You can also just use your finger to hold it back in place if it slides some. You can use the OAL method and remove the firing pin. To do your check on a seated bullet in a case you will need to clean that barrel and bolt head off very well. (This same thing applies when sizing brass to 2 thou under). Of course you want to lightly oil these items again once you are done, but not your bolt face.

I've been very successful just using the Hornady oal tool. That firm stop is your lands as another poster said. Sometimes the bullet will stick and sometimes it won't depending on how carefully you do it and when you stop. I do it 3 times carefully, then take the average of those 3 results. (Which are usually a few thou different total). The resistance you feel prior to that is just the bullet hitting on the sides of your Freebore. The cleaner the chamber, the less that will happen.

 

[Triple D]

223 Wylde, 1:8 Bartlein 26”
1.848BTO
H4895- 23.8-24.2gr
205m
2975-2990fps between the different charges to see which was optimum for each case type.

 

[padom]

Thanks Padom. Do you mean 2.490 - 2.500 inches OAL to touch the lands?

I got 2.500 OAL with the Hornady tool and just measured 2.490 using the Wheeler method. There was a difference between the 2 methods as I think I was pushing a tad hard on the Hornady plunger to get past the initial resistance I felt. This resistance was unnoticeable with the Wheeler method.

I see that you went with .015 off the lands. I may start with .020 and adjust accordingly.

Also, thanks for the load data for H4895 and Varget. Impressive results. I plan on using Winchester brass and Federal GM205M primers.

Yes, 2.49-2.50. Your readings are dead on.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

223 Wylde, 1:8 Bartlein 26”
1.848BTO
H4895- 23.8-24.2gr
205m
2975-2990fps between the different charges to see which was optimum for each case type.
View attachment 7796986
View attachment 7796987

I'm really close to your numbers.

223 Wylde 1:7.5 - Benchmark 22"
Comp#222 (BTO)- 1.855"
Hornady ELD 75gr.
MV 2955fps
Tac - 25.25gr
Lapua brass
CCI- BR4

 

[nrspence]

Great info on this thread!

 

[r.tenorio671]

....hmmm, wondering if a replacement aluminum or brass rod for the Hornady LNL tool would eliminate the "flex" sufficiently to address many of alleged inaccuracies currently being attributed to mis-reads?

 

[jLorenzo]

Very easy way to find the lands and has worked very well for me. Simple.

 

[nrspence]

Very easy way to find the lands and has worked very well for me. Simple.

That’s finding jam, and a baseline to start from when doing seating depth tests.

 

[Rob01]

Late to the game here but for my Wylde chamber with the 75 ELDs I am at 2.490" touching and I load them at 2.470" and they work great there but like other ELDs they aren't really jump sensitive so loading them farther off or a difference of .010" in measurements shouldn't make much difference with a good load.

 

[Packfan]

Late to the game here but for my Wylde chamber with the 75 ELDs I am at 2.490" touching and I load them at 2.470" and they work great there but like other ELDs they aren't really jump sensitive so loading them farther off or a difference of .010" in measurements shouldn't make much difference with a good load.

Thanks Rob01. I also measured 2.490" touching with the Wheeler method and have loaded both 2.475" and 2.480" OAL without much difference in accuracy. So far, the best five shot groups have been at 2.475" with 24.2 gr of H4895; avg for 8 groups has been .403 at 2962 FPS avg..

The gun also loves 69 SMK's; factory GMM has delivered groups of .378 avg and 25.0 gr of Varget at 2.260" have averaged .260. Pretty sweet so far.