.224 Valkyrie bolt gun

Hondo1

Hondo1

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    • Jun 2, 2014
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    #1
    Now that the Valkyrie has been out for a while what are your thoughts for those of you who have done one on a bolt gun? Velocities if you have them would be nice. Plenty of info out there for gas guns but I’m only interested in bolt gun information.

    Thanks
     
    #2
    Haven't done one, but my thoughts are that it's a weird bolt face diameter and a fast twist 22-250 would work with less work in most short actions and .22 Grendel would work better in most micro actions (cz, Howa).
     
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    #4
    Hondo1 said:
    Now that the Valkyrie has been out for a while what are your thoughts for those of you who have done one on a bolt gun? Velocities if you have them would be nice. Plenty of info out there for gas guns but I’m only interested in bolt gun information.

    Thanks
    Click to expand...
    Waste of time and money

    Old .22 PPC ,.220 Russian .224AR etc can run circles around .224 Valkrye all so offer better Lapua brass.
     
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    #5
    I’m not interested in for full on performance. I’m looking for good enough performance, available components. Bolt face is no more exotic than the .220 Russian variants.
     
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    #6
    I see no point in a Valkyrie bolt gun. The whole point of the round is to run heavy bullets at AR mag length. Bolt guns don't suffer that issue because even the 223 mags have enough to to seat the heavies out.

    224 Valkyrie vs 223 Rem performance is negligible, 223AI will out perform it. If available components are a major deciding factor nothing is as available as 223 ammo and brass. Buy excellent quality fully prep'd brass from Precision Brass Ops, fire it once, and leave it on the ground... Or save it and reload it if you don't mind the extra work.

    I LOVE my Valkyrie gas gun, but there's no way I'd build a bolt gun in it. It just doesn't do anything that 223 doesn't with a lot cheaper and more available components.
     
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    #9
    My .223 AI would have had a hard time reaching 2700 with 90’s. Keep in mind posted velocity’s for the Valkyrie are out of a gas gun. Let’s here from someone who has tried it.
     
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    #10
    I was chilling the other day with the guy that built the 224V bolt gun for Federal at SHOT, he said it's getting over 2800fps with factory 90gr loads. I think he said its a 24" on a Rock Creek blank. His 223 trainer gun beats it though.
     
    #11
    The factory velocities for Valkyrie are from a 24" barrel on a universal receiver, not a gas gun.

    My 20" 223AI did 2810fps with 90gr Bergers in formed Winchester brass with 25.5gr Varget and Federal 205's. I didn't complete load development with them however because the 7.7T barrel didn't like them. The 15 rounds I fired at 100 yards for a pressure test and to find nodes looked like a shotgun pattern and I knew even being VLD's no seating depth change would help accuracy that was that bad so I didn't waste them.

    Based on velocities and comparisons with other 223AI barrels I'd say that a 24" barrel should easily achieve 2850 with 90's without pushing pressure hard. A Valkyrie isn't going to come close to that.
     
    #12
    Looking at case capacities the Valkyrie has 2.5 grains more capacity Thant the .223ai. That’s roughly the same difference between a standard.223 and the .223ai. I have also tossed around the idea of doing a .22-204ruger. Sounds like the .204 case would be a closer match to the Valkyrie while keeping the .378 bolt face.
     
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    #14
    Rebated rim on the Nosler is repulsive to me.
    No good reason no to play with the BR. I have it in mind I wanna play with with a .224 bullet out of a case I’ve not used before. Been down the .223ai, fast twist .22-250, and fast twist .22-250ai roadbefore.
     
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    #17
    The Valkyrie in a bolt gun is more exotic, though. Howa and cz both make Grendel/7.62x39 bolt guns that a 22AR/22 Grendel is a simple matter of switching barrels, with the benefit of Lapua brass after a quick neck down. (Maybe turning necks down to .22 Cal, depends on reamer dimensions).

    I'm having a 6AR cz527 built right now that's likely to compare to 6.5 creedmoor trajectories out of a little baby Mauser action.

    I'm with everyone else. Out of an ar, maybe... Bolt gun there are better options.
     
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    #18
    I know that PTG used to list their custom bolts for M700s with the correct boltface for the SPC case, but having built several 223AIs & barreled both CZ 527 & Howa Mini actions for 6RAT, I just can't get excited about going to the expense & trouble of doing a bolt gun for the Valkyrie. However, at the same time, it wouldn't surprise me if the marketing folks at Legacy Sports weren't trying to get Howa to do a Mini with the SPC boltface & a 24" hvy bbl for the 224 Valkyrie.

    I really like my Mini in 6RAT, and would go that route with a 22RAT/Grendel improved before I'd screw around with the Valkyrie.
     
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    #19
    FYI, currently there is no off the shelf solution for an AICS pattern magazine that works with the Valkyrie.

    The last time I spoke with them; APO is making custom mags in house from AI .223 mags. MPA is tweaking feed lips and had designed a new follower for the standard .308 mags. The MPA mags have 14 round capacity.

    Possibly late in 2018 or at SHOT 2019 somebody should come out with a Valkyrie specific AICS pattern magazine. It was supposed to be available at launch, but that did not happen.
     
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    #20
    I kind of wish I built a 22 or 24" 223 ai after seeing the speed I'm getting. I'm thinking of doing a conversion kit for my Desert tech, I think I read where they think it will feed. If not, I will have a shit load of fireformed brass lol.
     
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    #22
    As more bolt action factory guns are produced with the .421" bolt face you will start seeing a surge of 224V in that area probably more from the wilcats based on the 68SPC case.
    A straight 68Spc case necked down to .224 or .240 would have better performance than the shortened 224V case anyway in a bolt gun.
     
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    #24
    Bradu said:
    I kind of wish I built a 22 or 24" 223 ai after seeing the speed I'm getting. I'm thinking of doing a conversion kit for my Desert tech, I think I read where they think it will feed. If not, I will have a shit load of fireformed brass lol.
    Click to expand...

    Last I checked with SAC they weren’t going to do an AI chamber in the .223 conversion. I would have one for sure if they did.
     
    #26
    I have quite a bit of experience with the 6 HAGAR in AR15 match rifles used in NRA XC HP matches. The HAGAR has the same casehead diameter as the 6.8 SPC, but is longer. L to R in photo: 6 HAGAR, 6.8SPC, 22PDK, all with same casehead dia. Will try to get a 224 Valkyrie case to compare to the 22PDK. The HAGAR was originally formed on 30 Rem brass that had the shoulder pushed back & necked to 6mm, then shortened about 3/8". HAGAR case in the photo was made by Hornady, as were the other two cases. Any of these rounds would work well in a Howa Mini with the correct boltface, Should've included a 223 case in the photo for reference, but the HAGAR case is only around .020" longer than a 223. I've not seen one in person, but IIRC, Rem made a run of 6.8SPC M700 or M7s several years ago; if you could find one, you could experiment to your heart's content with these & other cases using the same SPC casehead dia. I doubt any of these cases would give world-beating performance, but it would be kind of fun to experiment with them in a bolt rifle. ETA - while a M700 w/6.8SPC boltface would allow more options in trigger & DBM choices, a Howa Mini would be better proportioned for such small cases, and would allow for a build with lighter weight. Yeah, OK, I admit it - I'm a Mini fanboy. But there's a reason for that...it's a fine little action, needing only more trigger & DBM options to make it more desirable & well-suited for projects like the OP's original 224 Valkyrie boltgun.
    DSC_1153.JPG
     
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    #27
    I have a 220 Thunderbolt which is a 6mm Hagar necked down to 22. Im running Sierra 77TMK with 29g RE15 in a Kreiger barreled 22" AR15 at 3200 right now no pressure and lights out accurate.

    My 26" 223 Wylde bolt guns are pushing 80 Amax's with Varget in Lapua brass at 2900 and 75 ELD-M with H4895 at 3011. Both of these combos shoot tiny little holes.
     
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    #29
    if it were me, I would shoot a 223 AI in a bolt gun (I love my 24" with a can on it) or if I wanted more performance, go with the 22 creedmoor.

    as others have said, the Valkyrie was designed to fit in AR mag length. Will it work in a bolt gun? sure, but why?
     
    #30
    I'm seeing 2600 with RL17 and 95's seated to 2.290" from a 22" .224 Valkyrie gas gun. A bolt gun with a custom throat to load 2.5" COAL, I'd bet 2800 would be more than possible, 2750 with less sensitive powder... now what else launches a .6g1 bullet between 2700 and 2800 with match winning results???

    That's right, the 260 x 47 creedmoor. ;)

    OP, I'm thinking of having one built too.
     
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    #31
    I've got a Howa Mini bbl'd action in 222 Rem; no interest in re-barreling it for 223, as I've got several custom bbl'd 223/223AI bolt rifles already, plus a nice Sako Vixen in 223 for a light walking varminter. I'm thinking of opening the 222's boltface .040" to accept SPC-based wildcat cartridges, as well as the 6 HAGAR. Not that I think such a rifle would be a world-beater in any of these rounds - but since I do my own bbl & action work, I think it'd be fun & interesting to work with the 22PDK & 6 HAGAR in a bolt gun. Only thing that concerns me is whether the M16-style extractor the Mini actions use would still work with the slightly larger 6.8 SPC casehead. Would have to compare the extractor out of one of my 6.5 Grendel Mini actions to that of the 222, and see if there are significant differences.
     
    #34
    redneckbmxer24 said:
    I see no point in a Valkyrie bolt gun. The whole point of the round is to run heavy bullets at AR mag length. Bolt guns don't suffer that issue because even the 223 mags have enough to to seat the heavies out.

    224 Valkyrie vs 223 Rem performance is negligible, 223AI will out perform it. If available components are a major deciding factor nothing is as available as 223 ammo and brass. Buy excellent quality fully prep'd brass from Precision Brass Ops, fire it once, and leave it on the ground... Or save it and reload it if you don't mind the extra work.

    I LOVE my Valkyrie gas gun, but there's no way I'd build a bolt gun in it. It just doesn't do anything that 223 doesn't with a lot cheaper and more available components.
    Click to expand...

    I disagree ... even though the .224 VLAK was made to fit AR magazines it is far far superior to the .223 Rem for longer distances because it can use higher BC projectiles than would be possible in .223 Rem. So it is THE .22 caliber for long distance almost matching 6.5 CDM performance. I think it is a fantastic caliber for a bolt gun once they are made and once other manufacturers are getting into making ammo for it. Hornady will come out with their first ammo issue in June. I am sure the 224 VALK is going far and not just in AR's. Now it is also true that it's performance advantage does not really come into its own until you shoot beyond 600 yds. or so.
     
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    #35
    Alex D said:
    I disagree ... even though the .224 VLAK was made to fit AR magazines it is far far superior to the .223 Rem for longer distances because it can use higher BC projectiles than would be possible in .223 Rem. So it is THE .22 caliber for long distance almost matching 6.5 CDM performance. I think it is a fantastic caliber for a bolt gun once they are made and once other manufacturers are getting into making ammo for it. Hornady will come out with their first ammo issue in June. I am sure the 224 VALK is going far and not just in AR's. Now it is also true that it's performance advantage does not really come into its own until you shoot beyond 600 yds. or so.
    Click to expand...

    News flash, you can load those same long high BC bullets in a 223 bolt gun. People have been doing it for years.
     
    #36
    I had the same thoughts of doing a .224V bolt gun. Then I realized much of the same things that were already stated on above posts. So current thoughts are to do a switch barrel setup with .223 Rem and .22 Creedmoor. The .223 Rem for pounding rounds and .22 Creed for performance. This way I get the best of both worlds along with available brass and standard bolt faces.
     
    #37
    Alex D said:
    I disagree ... even though the .224 VLAK was made to fit AR magazines it is far far superior to the .223 Rem for longer distances because it can use higher BC projectiles than would be possible in .223 Rem. So it is THE .22 caliber for long distance almost matching 6.5 CDM performance. I think it is a fantastic caliber for a bolt gun once they are made and once other manufacturers are getting into making ammo for it. Hornady will come out with their first ammo issue in June. I am sure the 224 VALK is going far and not just in AR's. Now it is also true that it's performance advantage does not really come into its own until you shoot beyond 600 yds. or so.
    Click to expand...


    I fail to see the purpose of a .224 Valkyrie in a bolt gun. It’s reason for being is to fit an AR-15 magazine and to be able to be used with a barrel and bolt change. There are simply better cartridges for a bolt gun and perhaps even for an AR-15.

    Federal is reportedly changing the load of some Valkyrie offerings and multiple companies have delayed shipping Valkyrie uppers because they are unable to obtain satisfactory results with the 90 gr SMK loads with supposed 1:7 twist barrels.

    For as long as Federal supposedly took in development of the Valkyrie it has had a very troubled introduction.
     
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    #38
    I recently went through this very same analysis, and came away with the conclusion that, as others have mentioned, performance between the 224V and 223 AI are so close as to be practically negligible. Additionally, the 223 AI has the advantage of being able to run what is probably the most commonly available centerfire cartridge in the US in a pinch. Obviously, you'd be giving up the performance advantage of the AI variant at that point, but at least you'd have something to shoot.

    The other consideration in my analysis (for my use cases) is that magazine feeding is nice, but not a deal-breaker if it isn't there... for me, it would be primarily a prairie dog gun, and I single load when shooting the little suckers.
     
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    #39
    bunsen27 said:
    FYI, currently there is no off the shelf solution for an AICS pattern magazine that works with the Valkyrie.

    The last time I spoke with them; APO is making custom mags in house from AI .223 mags. MPA is tweaking feed lips and had designed a new follower for the standard .308 mags. The MPA mags have 14 round capacity.

    Possibly late in 2018 or at SHOT 2019 somebody should come out with a Valkyrie specific AICS pattern magazine. It was supposed to be available at launch, but that did not happen.
    Click to expand...

    Would a AICS mag work or work better with the 224 Valkyrie if a 6BR magazine kit was used with it?
     
    #41
    I'm running the AI mags with the BR kits. They work but I can't fully loaded them without them nose diving. I'm sure tweaking the lips would help but I opted to buy the MDT poly 224V mags. They only hold 8 but that's ok by me
     
    #43
    I'm running 2839fps with 88s from a 22" 223.... haven't seen any data that fast from a .224 V. It can probably do it just haven't seen it. 224 V won't get you much more than that I'm guessing
     
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    #45
    steve123 said:
    Just guessing here, but if you loaded a 88 grainer just above the neck shoulder junction in a 224V Starline case, and used the correct burn rate powder, you'd probably get upwards of 2850 fps in a normal length barrel.
    Click to expand...

    I agree, but even if you got 50fps higher with equal spec rifles is it worth paying more for brass with less parts, reloading equipment, and component choices. Probably much harder to flip if you had to sell your stuff too.
     
    #46
    True but it's all speculation at this point for the 224V at longer lengths.

    I do know that a friend who was developing a cartridge very similar to the 224V was able to get over 2900 fps with 90 SMK in an AR with a 24" barrel with SA brass at 2.260" OACL. Pressures were high but that brass was tough stuff.

    Looking into the future I could see 224V Lapua brass, 2.5?" mags, and 26" barrels breathing new life into current 224V velocities. Then it's going to be a much more interesting little option for some.
     
    #47
    I’ve just got to the point I hate reloading. I spend 3/4 my time cleaning,prepping, and reloading. I’d prefer to just shoot. I’m not shooting benchrest and all the factory match stuff usually maintains .75 MOA and most the time .5 MOA which is plenty for comps and hunting.

    A 224V in bolt gun would be fun to me. Ballistics somewhere between a 308 and 6.5 Creed along with less recoil then both and factory match ammo less then $1 a round. Again I know there are cartridges that do this and do it better BUT no factory match offerings.
     
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    #48
    A 22br shooting 88's at 2,940 with tiny es/sd, next to no recoil, barely any vertical, killer brass and dupes 6 Dasher ballistics to 1,300 with no fire forming and only runs $20 per hundred bullets is a tough act to follow.

    I get that the Valkyrie has ok to good factory ammo.

    In a bolt gun, I'm leaning 22br after putting one together, and this coming from a die hard .223AI freak.
     
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    #49
    Hondo1 said:
    Looking at case capacities the Valkyrie has 2.5 grains more capacity Thant the .223ai. That’s roughly the same difference between a standard.223 and the .223ai. I have also tossed around the idea of doing a .22-204ruger. Sounds like the .204 case would be a closer match to the Valkyrie while keeping the .378 bolt face.
    Click to expand...
    The 204 Ruger's parent case is the 222 Remington Magnum. A 22-204 is just turning the 204 back into the 222 Rem Mag. I agree the Valkyrie makes more sense in a gas gun. It was designed to fit into AR magazines, and you can find 6.8 SPC bolts without too much effort. If you're looking for a practical reason for a 224V bolt gun, you may trend toward looking at barrel life or outfitting a small shooter with a capable long range cartridge. But since when are we ever practical? It's like convincing someone to change their favorite flavor of ice cream. Others need an excuse to buy a new gun. New cartridge?...Hmm, I need one of those!
     
    Last edited:
    #50
    The thought behind the .22-204 vs .222 rem mag would be the improved shoulder angle, a little more case capacity, and ease in finding brass. It would have between 5 and 6 more grains of powder capacity than the standard .223
    And should have equal if not a touch more capacity than the Valkyrie. Fact is I will probably stay with my .223ai but it is fun to play around with new ideas.
     
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