.243 and .308 to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion

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padom

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.243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/23/2016
(1 vote)

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So I set out to find a durable case to convert to 6.5cm that was cheap and didnt require neck turning for my 6.5cm semi. After a bunch of research I went with Winchester brass in .243Win which was $22.49/50. It has turned out excellent. My first firing produced amazing accuracy with 39g Varget and 123Amax. No load development, just wanted to finish them off by fire forming to see how they turned out. I bought 500pcs but only converted 13 (15 total but the first 2 were trial and error and crushed the shoulder) before converting anymore otherwise I would sell them off and try something else.

Accuracy during fire forming avgeraged under .75" while shooting 2 five shot groups at 100yds. I am very pleased and will now convert the rest. The necks measure identical to my factory Hornady brass when loaded, no need to neck turn.

Steps

1. Trim .243Win case to 1.940"
2. Run case through modified .243Win FL sizing die that pushes the shoulder back to 6.5cm dimensions. (I had to grind the bottom of a cheap RCBS FL sizing die until the shoulder was pushed back to 6.5cm dimensions)
3. Chamfer and Debur
4. Lube case and run through 6.5cm FL Sizing die to set the shoulder and case neck
5. Tumble to remove lube

I then fire formed with 39G of Varget and 123 Amax. I will anneal them now after SS tumbling.



From left to right - Virgin .243Win>Trimmed .243Win>Shoulder pushed back to 6.5cm dimensions>6.5cm FL Sized> Fire formed

Virgin .243Win next to loaded round freshly converted and ready to fireform

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bsj042312X36 MONTHS
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/23/2016 Last edited 05/23/2016 by bsj042312

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That's awesome! I'm doing a similar process but converting 308 Lapua cases I got for a steal. It's nice to see a little different approach.

Edit: What ended up being the OAL of the case after you ran it through the Creemoor die?

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padom

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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/23/2016

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i have some 260 rem Lapua converted to 6.5cm which is awesome but no where near as cheap as Winchester .243

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bsj042312X36 MONTHS
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/23/2016

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What does the neck wall measure for both the 243 and 260 cases after its all said and done?

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padom

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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/24/2016 Last edited 05/24/2016 by padom

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id have to measure. i know the Lapua .260 that was done by smith was turned down so loaded ammo had .003" clearance in my gun.

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padom

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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/24/2016

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The turned Lapua .260 and factory Hornady measure .0135 and my .243Win measure .0140 using digital calipers.

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tho98027XSergeant
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/24/2016

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What do the necks measure with a bullet seated?

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padom

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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/24/2016 Last edited 05/24/2016 by padom

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0.2910 for the converted .243Win brass and .2905 for factory Hornady and converted Lapua .260rem.

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briang7511

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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/24/2016

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powder valley has PPU brass in .243 a few bucks cheaper than Winchester if your interested

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padom

XFirst Sergeant
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/24/2016

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Winchester is actually same price at Midway $44/100

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bsj042312X36 MONTHS
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/25/2016

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So, I've just run into something doing this I haven't seen before. A little backstory... I'm converting lapua 308 into 6.5 creed, here's my process:
Run 308 case into shortened 6.5 creedmoor die
Trim to 1.925
Fire form using the COW method
Neck size and then turn to .015
Load em up and go.

The problem is after I fire formed 40 cases, I noticed this squiggly line on the shoulder. I ran a paper clip both on the outside and inside of this "groove", nothing caught on the inside, but there is definitely a slight depression on the outside. My question, are these cases "stretched"? I had measured the shoulder of a fired case from my chamber and bumped the shoulders of the Lapua cases back 2-3 thou from that. It could have been something in my chamber, there was some brass that I scrubbed out after I noticed these lines. I'm at a loss as to the cause and if I ruined 40 cases or not.

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bsj042312X36 MONTHS
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/25/2016 Last edited 05/25/2016 by bsj042312

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jeepnshooterXSergeant
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/25/2016

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I just started doing this too, but take a slightly different approach that does not require an extra die. I take the .243 brass, trim, run through the 6.5 CM die without decapping rod assembly(no expander) to set the shoulder back, then back through the same die with decapping rod and expanded. Have not shot them but loaded some dummy rounds and feed just fine. These are federal brass. I also annealed after finally sizing.

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tho98027XSergeant
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/25/2016

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jeepnshooter wrote:
I just started doing this too, but take a slightly different approach that does not require an extra die. I take the .243 brass, trim, run through the 6.5 CM die without decapping rod assembly(no expander) to set the shoulder back, then back through the same die with decapping rod and expanded. Have not shot them but loaded some dummy rounds and feed just fine. These are federal brass. I also annealed after finally sizing.

You using winchester brass aswell?

 

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jeepnshooterXSergeant
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/25/2016

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tho98027 wrote:

jeepnshooter wrote:

I just started doing this too, but take a slightly different approach that does not require an extra die. I take the .243 brass, trim, run through the 6.5 CM die without decapping rod assembly(no expander) to set the shoulder back, then back through the same die with decapping rod and expanded. Have not shot them but loaded some dummy rounds and feed just fine. These are federal brass. I also annealed after finally sizing.

You using winchester brass aswell?​

I am using Federal brass.

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040147XGunny Sergeant
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/27/2016
(1 vote)

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This is pretty cool. I reformed brass like this before for a 6.5mm. It took a few firings for the brass to fully form. Did you use a lathe to grind down your die ?



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padom

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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/27/2016 Last edited 05/27/2016 by padom

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i actually used a flat belt sander started with 80grit then finished with 150grit. works great.

They were extremely accurate when fire forming and are fully formed after that first firing using Varget and 123amax.

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MtCreekXFirst Sergeant
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/28/2016

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bsj042312 wrote:
......

The problem is after I fire formed 40 cases, I noticed this squiggly line on the shoulder.............​

It's most likely a crease that was formed into the shoulder when it was set back to creed length.

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monmouthbrassX20 MONTHS
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
05/30/2016

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Monmouthreloading.com has the Winchester .243 brass in stock and in bulk to save on shipping:

http://monmouthreloading.com/shop/243-winchester-brass/

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padom

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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
06/05/2016 Last edited 06/05/2016 by padom

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so a little update. My initial fire forming load of 39g Varget was way too hot. loose primer pockets. i dropped that down to 37.8g Varget with the 123 amax. i shot 40rds in 5 shot groups and they were all tiny little groups. velocity was 2745 SD 11. I loaded up another 50 on friday and shot them at a 12" x 18" swinger at 600yd and they were boringly accurate. i have done ZERO load development with Varget, 123 Amax or this brass. I am loading up another 100 now with 123L to shoot out to 500m tomorrow. Im out of 123 Amax but have more inbound. After that Ill do load development on their 2nd firing.

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Clownbuster1XSergeant
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
06/17/2016

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bsj042312 wrote:

So, I've just run into something doing this I haven't seen before. A little backstory... I'm converting lapua 308 into 6.5 creed, here's my process:
Run 308 case into shortened 6.5 creedmoor die
Trim to 1.925
Fire form using the COW method
Neck size and then turn to .015
Load em up and go.

The problem is after I fire formed 40 cases, I noticed this squiggly line on the shoulder. I ran a paper clip both on the outside and inside of this "groove", nothing caught on the inside, but there is definitely a slight depression on the outside. My question, are these cases "stretched"? I had measured the shoulder of a fired case from my chamber and bumped the shoulders of the Lapua cases back 2-3 thou from that. It could have been something in my chamber, there was some brass that I scrubbed out after I noticed these lines. I'm at a loss as to the cause and if I ruined 40 cases or not.​

I wasn't able to open your pic, but it sounds as the indentations on the shoulders are likely from using a touch too much case lube during forming. Fire-forming will correct the issue.

Your forming process sounds good. Before forming with the 6.5 CM die, I first run my 308 cases through a modified 7mm-08 die to set the shoulder back to match the 6.5 CM's.

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Clownbuster1XSergeant
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
06/17/2016

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padom wrote:

so a little update. My initial fire forming load of 39g Varget was way too hot. loose primer pockets...​

Padom, IF your intentions are going to be reaching higher velocity nodes, try forming some .308 Palma to 6.5 CM. Primer pockets hold up incredibly well to the pressure.

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padom

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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
06/17/2016 Last edited 06/17/2016 by padom

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I already have some for my 6.5cm bolt. the goal for this project was converting cheap brass that is tougher than hornady brass for my semi that didnt require neck turning.

the .243 Winchester worked perfectly.

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Clownbuster1XSergeant
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
06/17/2016

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Ahh, nice.

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ironsight1000yardXPrivate
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
01/02/2017

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Hi, trying to load some 6.5 for my RPR 6.5.
What do you recommend for triming?
A case trimmer or cut saw? Which trimmer work well for this application?

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padom

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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
01/02/2017 Last edited 01/02/2017 by padom

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I just use a WFT in a Dayton motor I have. You can chuck it up in a drill. Faster the better. I no longer form 243 to 6.5cm. Switched over to 308...Did 100 LC 11 7.62 over the past 2 days. Turned out awesome.

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ironsight1000yardXPrivate
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
01/02/2017

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Why is that?
From what I have been reading 243 is much easier.
E.g. This guy simply trim and size them in two steps.






You have something new and easier?

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padom

XFirst Sergeant
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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
01/02/2017

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Few reasons

1. LC 7.62 1x holds up better and is cheaper. Pockets going on Win .243 quicker. Other. 243 brands might be different
2. Got new Lapua 308 palma cheap which will hold up the longest.

I actually size 308 straight in my 6.5cm die. 243 I had to run through a milled down 243 die then through my 6.5cm die and the shoulder didnt turn out nearly as nice as the 308. I do have to neck turn 308 but they are extremely concentric after where the 243 werent so much

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padom

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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
01/02/2017 Last edited 01/02/2017 by padom

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Here's a picture from left to right of 1xLC 7.62 converted to 6.5cm. This was only run in a 6.5cm FL Sizing die. Middle is a piece of newly converted 243. Notice the shoulder is much rounder and needs to be fireformed to finish off the shoulder. The piece on the right is the .243 after fireforming. Not to mention the necks are much more consistent on the 308 converted brass due to neck turning. I will admit though, the .243 brass with 123 Amax and Varget was extremely accurate when fireforming. I had zero issues banging steel out to 500yds with it.

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nilescoyote

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Re: .243Win to 6.5cm - Brass Conversion
01/03/2017 Last edited 01/03/2017 by nilescoyote

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Thanks for the idea padon, I have LC brass and one 6.5 creedmoor barrel with a generous neck per my fired brass. This may be just the ticket for that rifle. Do you recall how much you needed to turn off? IIRC, I have about .008" over loaded ammo neck size compared to fired size which likely puts the chamber neck wall closer to .009-.010"

 

[Guest]

Ill have to double check but I believe I removed .003-.004

 

[Guest]

I got 300 1xLC '11 converted over to 6.5cm. Ready and waiting for my new PVA 6.5cm AR10 barrel so I can test these out! They have have been deprimed, SS tumbled, annealed, formed to 6.5cm, trimmed to 1.91", neck turned to 0.015" neck wall thickness, primer crimp reamed out, and flash hole deburred. They are super nice!

 

[BearNaked]

if you are converting from the 7.62 LC 1X fired brass, do you have to turn the necks? i am going to be getting into the 260 this year so just curious if i will have to add this step to my process.

 

[Guest]

Yes, you have to turn the necks whether its .260 or 6.5cm.

 

[BearNaked]

thank you sir.

 

[jb1023]

Thanks for the tip Iron. I have a bunch of LC LR for my 308. I am planning to rebarrel my 308 to a 6.5CM next winter and will just convert the brass rather than selling it and starting over.

 

[TheNatural21]

I started playing around with this over the last couple weeks. I converted a couple hundred 308 brass to 6.5CM with fewer steps than what I've read about elsewhere on the internet, so I thought I'd share my experience here. I have not gotten to fire them yet, but dummy rounds chamber nicely. I end up with 0.002" runout measured 1/8" below the body/shoulder junction so it's not perfect, but it's tolerable for me. Give me some feedback if it's constructive; this is my first go at converting brass to a different cartridge.

Which brass you start with seems to make a big difference. I tried some 1F Hirtenburger (Austrian military surplus) and it converted quite nicely and because the necks are on the thin side to start with, once they were necked down they were 0.0145". The "old shoulder" that is now the base of the neck is much thicker though, so they still require neck turning to get that bottom portion of the neck (donut) down to size. I found some brass that has a reputation for being softer didn't work out very well. I do the sizing in one step and if the brass is too soft it crumples the body. I settled on some NATO spec brass for the same reason a lot of other people did, price and availability. It sizes nicely, but requires neck turning as the necks end up way too thick to fit in a SAAMI chamber. Another advantage of NATO brass is that "wrong" headstamps drive me crazy, but these aren't stamped 308 Win so the end product headstamps aren't a lie.

I found that you can run a regular length 308 Win case through a Lee 6.5 Creedmoor full length sizing die with the expander still installed. There is enough room for the crazy long neck you end up with and I thought it would be easier to trim to the right length at the end rather than figure out how much needed to be removed from a 308 Win to end up at the right length after sizing.

My steps:
-do regular prep for primer pockets (decap, remove crimp, clean, debur flashhole)
-Lube with Dillon Case Lube and run through a Lee 6.5 Creedmoor sizing die. This gets the shape right, but they "spring back" to be a little too long to chamber
-Rotate the case 180 degrees and run through the sizing die again.
-Trim to proper length. I've been doing 1.92" rather than the "trim to" 1.91" in my loading manual in case they shrink a bit in fireforming.
-debur and chamfer
-outside neck turn. I've been taking them down to 0.0145"
-throw them in the tumbler for polishing
-set aside for annealing

I don't have annealing equipment yet. The purpose of this experiment was to find another way to justify buying some stuff. Between this and all of my 4x fired brass that I've just been setting aside to anneal eventually, I think I accomplished my goal.