260 Remington in an AI AT at 1 mile...possible?

[jlficken]

I have a chance to go shoot at a mile this winter and am wondering how to proceed. I have shot out to 1000yds but no farther.

I need buy a barrel as I only shoot 308 at this time. As much as I'd like to step up to a AXMC that isn't really possible.

Are there other calibers that I could consider for my AI AT?

Any links to barrels, load data, or bullets would be appreciated. I have don't some looking and see that H4350 and 140 Hybrid's seems to be an option but am curious what else I could look into.

Thanks!

 

[blacknwhite11]

Not sure what your conditions are, but I had good success at a mile with a 140 rdf at 2845 fps.....4400 ft above sea level.

 

[Fursniper]

I shoot my 260 to a mile on a fairly regular basis. 140 hybrids over H4350 in lapua brass (42.4 Grains) out of a 26" bartlien 5r. It not the ideal round for that job but the hybrids transition through transonic fairly decently so it gets 'er done. Was going to try a solid but then I built a 338LM Improved, made the mile a chip shot so the 260 solid bullet project got dropped. The Nosler 140 RDF's might be a good bet too.

 

[jlficken]

It looks like the Hornady 147gr ELD-M's in 260Rem/6.5CM might be the ticket as long as I can get them up to 2650fps which I believe will be possible. That way they will still be supersonic at a mile.

I will probably start with a 26" barrel and give it a whirl.

ETA: It looks like the 140gr ELD-M's could work too from further research.

 

[jlficken]

Thanks for the tips guys!

I am at 1800ft elevation and in Nebraska so temperatures fluctuate a lot too. I will look at those Nosler bullets too to try out.

Now to track down a barrel that will work. I am thinking I may need to get the chamber cut special if I am going to try out the 147gr ELD-M's though whereas the Hybrid's wouldn't need that?

 

[Sixfivesavage]

If you're going to go more than once to a mile and don't mind investing a little for a special load for the distance, you might want to look into the flat line solids. Give yourself the best chance you can with a short action.

 

[Fursniper]

You won't know until you shoot it and get a true velocity (the 147) if you'll be supersonic to a mile, it's a very borderline deal at that distance. My load is subsonic just prior to a mile with a starting velocity of 2830. In either event you'll be going transonic somewhere around 1400 feet, maybe a little more so you want a bullet with good transitional abilities.
As far as alternative calibers, yeah, there's better ones than a 260 for a mile on a regular basis. Assuming you're staying with a short action I'd look at 7mm something, maybe a 7 saum or Wsm 7mm. Lots of rounds will make a mile really. To me, making a mile 1st round hit is the deal though. Everything else is just slinging lead. It can be fun, and I'm as "guilty" as the next guy at just slinging lead for fun but really, if you can't hit it on the 1st round........!

 

[jlficken]

I wish I could go with a WSM of some kind but I didn't think that was really possible with the AT?

Realistically it will be 2-3 times per year that I can get out to a mile. Most of the time it will be 1000yds or a little over so I am reluctant to spend big money on a new rifle no matter how much I want one.

 

[Fursniper]

I don't know if an AT can shoot a WSM either, just not familiar enough with that specific rifle, was just making a caliber specific suggestion. I'm sure an AT owner will jump in here maybe......

 

[Jrb572]

AT bolt come in .308 case head diameter bolt only. You would have to shot an AXMC with the magnum bolt body.

 

[BoltRunner]

I usually load up some hotter rounds on my 260 when going out to really long range, this is just my recipe but it works great for me. I have 2 260 Rifles one Bartlein one Benchmark barrel, both 24" I usually run IMR4350 to 40.5g on Berger 140 hybrids and thats around 2,650fps on the two barrels. Both are loaded 2.850 with Lapua Brass. When I run longer distance I load 44.0g of IMR4350 and I can get 2,900fps without seeing problems on brass or primers. I know everyone uses H4350 but I tried it for awhile and my rifles just like the IMR better and I get more speed with less powder and less pressure, it is a little more temp sensitive but I have played with it enough to know where it will shoot at 30 degrees - 90 degrees. Just my 2 cents though

 

[BoltRunner]

2 Pics shot with the 2 different 260's both with the above mentioned load, both of them are 5 shot groups at 300yds.

 

[vh20]

Uh, that's 300 yards you say? Estimating from the pic, that's less than 0.1 MOA.

 

[skinnj1]

If you are willing to make it a single load only situation (ala rem 40 x), you could get a long action cartridge barrel spun up for your .473 boltface, a .280 AI would be my suggestion. A long, 1-8 twist barrel with the 180+ gr. Heavies would get you to a mile...down side is same as a 40x, you might have to pull bolt to remove loaded round, all in all a few compromises but one way to get you there with the gear you got for the price of a barrel and components

 

[BoltRunner]

Uh, that's 300 yards you say? Estimating from the pic, that's less than 0.1 MOA.

Yes Sir, this was a good shooting day on my part, extremely low wind, the top pick has a flyer you will see to the left. I wouldn't put some BS made up story on Snipershide just to get tore apart by everyone. Again this isn't how I shoot every time I go to the range but Im usually at the range 2-3 times per week and sometimes the groups are better than others. This was shot from a bipod and rear bag on a benchrest range. One rifle is an AX 260 REM the other is a BAT Action on a KMW Sentinel 260 REM.

 

[majohnson2]

Read Franks piece on solids in the 122gr .264 size. I have some that I will be trying out in the next range trip. They sound promising.

 

[surgeon260]

Uh, that's 300 yards you say? Estimating from the pic, that's less than 0.1 MOA.

That is some great shooting no doubt (and maybe a bit of luck), but the 260 Rem is certainly capable of consistently delivering this kind of accuracy. My accuracy load out of a 27" Surgeon Scalpel w/ Bartlein barrel pushes a 140 Hybrid at 2820 w/ single digit ES using Lapua brass, H4350, and BR2s. Plenty of groups in the 0.2s, 0.1s, and even 0.0s. I am continually blown away by the capability of this rifle. 260 Rem rocks. You will have a blast with it at a mile, even if you don't connect every time.

 

[BoltRunner]

That is some great shooting no doubt (and maybe a bit of luck), but the 260 Rem is certainly capable of consistently delivering this kind of accuracy. My accuracy load out of a 27" Surgeon Scalpel w/ Bartlein barrel pushes a 140 Hybrid at 2820 w/ single digit ES using Lapua brass, H4350, and BR2s. Plenty of groups in the 0.2s, 0.1s, and even 0.0s. I am continually blown away by the capability of this rifle. 260 Rem rocks. You will have a blast with it at a mile, even if you don't connect every time.

Hahaha LOL may have had some luck on my side that day, sometimes it comes together better than others. I know 260REM isn't the most popular 6.5 round but I think it gets overlooked too quick due to the popularity of 6.5CM and 6.5 Lapua in comp guns, yeah it needs to be loaded long which create a problem in mags once you go past 2.86" but the round has great accuracy, speed, and the BC's are no different. Now obviously Im biased considering I built 2 260 REM's but this is just my 2 cents.

 

[surgeon260]

I think the OAL "issue" is seriously overblown with 260 Rem. I have never wanted for more OAL when using 140 Hybrids and AICS mags. With H4350, I can't use all of the case capacity anyway without serious pressure signs, so I just don't see any problem.

 

[BoltRunner]

I think the OAL "issue" is seriously overblown with 260 Rem. I have never wanted for more OAL when using 140 Hybrids and AICS mags. With H4350, I can't use all of the case capacity anyway without serious pressure signs, so I just don't see any problem.

I would have to agree with you 100% but some guys act like its a deal breaker.

 

[CharlieNC]

I shot my 6.5x47 on a mile target with the 140eldm, and it handled the transonic transition well. Since that time I have transitioned to the 140rdf which shoots a little more consistently for me, and has a bit higher bc as well. With the higher powder capacity of the 260 you should be able to find a decent load to handle it fine.

 

[BoltRunner]

I shot my 6.5x47 on a mile target with the 140eldm, and it handled the transonic transition well. Since that time I have transitioned to the 140rdf which shoots a little more consistently for me, and has a bit higher bc as well. With the higher powder capacity of the 260 you should be able to find a decent load to handle it fine.

CharlieNC how do you like the 140 RDF comared to the 140 Berger Hybrid? Do you think the .658 BC is pretty spot on or? I bought a ton of 140 Berger Hybrids along time ago and thats about all I shoot on my 6.5 rifles, I thought about trying some of the Warner 6.5's but they ain't cheap and I couldn't warrant running them as a new all time round.

 

[CharlieNC]

I have not tried the Berger. Started with 123 Scenar, very accurate but the bc is getting smacked by the newer models. Using published bc for 140 eldm and rdf have worked well, with only minor adjustments to velocity in the ballistic calcs. For me the rdf seems to behave more consistently in the wind.

 

[diverdon]

If I had a berger 140 going about 2860 (which is a little hotter than I am shooting now) I'de need about 24 mills of adjustment. The S&B with a 30 MOA rail gives me 35 Mills. I have not taken it to a mile, but I guess I ought to try it this fall.

 

[Fursniper]

If I had a berger 140 going about 2860 (which is a little hotter than I am shooting now) I'de need about 24 mills of adjustment. The S&B with a 30 MOA rail gives me 35 Mills. I have not taken it to a mile, but I guess I ought to try it this fall.

What DA are you shooting at?

 

[diverdon]

My actual Mean Sea Level elevation is 1530, my 500 yard target is at 1510, and my 800 & 1000 yard targets are at 1520 The DA of course depends on weather. As of today I have not had the .260 beyond 1000, nor do I have an accurate node that will push the berger 140 at 2860 ---- but I have a little time scheduled this Sept to work that out. That 2860 number is projected to go subsonic at 1450 so if I can find a mile range we will have to see how the next three hundred yards go.

 

[Fursniper]

My actual Mean Sea Level elevation is 1530, my 500 yard target is at 1510, and my 800 & 1000 yard targets are at 1520 The DA of course depends on weather. As of today I have not had the .260 beyond 1000, nor do I have an accurate node that will push the berger 140 at 2860 ---- but I have a little time scheduled this Sept to work that out. That 2860 number is projected to go subsonic at 1450 so if I can find a mile range we will have to see how the next three hundred yards go.

Ok, yeah, just wondered 'cause you seemed to need quite a bit more elevation than I thought. I'm shooting at 5500 elevation, right now and average DA is between 6800 & 7800 this time of year so I'm only dialing 20 mils give or take at a mile. My 140 hybrids are only doing 2830 and seem to handle it fine. It's sure fun to hear that plate sound off at a mile with that tiny bullet lol!

 

[diverdon]

Ok, yeah, just wondered 'cause you seemed to need quite a bit more elevation than I thought. I'm shooting at 5500 elevation, right now and average DA is between 6800 & 7800 this time of year so I'm only dialing 20 mils give or take at a mile. My 140 hybrids are only doing 2830 and seem to handle it fine. It's sure fun to hear that plate sound off at a mile with that tiny bullet lol!

Thanks for that info, today I'm just using the numbers from JBM but I'll be sure to keep in mind that I might need a little less, especially if the DA where I'm shooting is a little higher.

 

[3rdfocal]

A 243 and a 110 SMK will get you there and then some. I'm shooting that combo in an AT and it's pretty impressive. Mile High has AT barrels in 243 ready to go last time I checked.

 

[jlficken]

A 243 and a 110 SMK will get you there and then some. I'm shooting that combo in an AT and it's pretty impressive. Mile High has AT barrels in 243 ready to go last time I checked.

That is something to think about. Barrel life is horrible though correct...like half of a 260?

 

[3rdfocal]

That is something to think about. Barrel life is horrible though correct...like half of a 260?

I hear anywhere from 1-2,000 rounds. This is my first 243 and only have a few hundred rounds through it so I can't tell you from experience. I'm running a pretty mild load of h1000 and keeping the barrel fairly cool so I'm hoping to see around 2k rounds. We'll see though. The pre-fit AI barrels are great though, really no waiting after you shoot one out.

 

[Backspace]

AIAX 6.5x47 140 rdf at 2800 fps. 1 mile off of a barricade in Charleston, SC. A 260 will have no problem getting you to a mile with a 140 of your choice.

https://youtu.be/QM3pP85CLWI

 

[jlficken]

That was some good shooting! I am thinking I will just go with the 260 as well when the time comes.

 

[NotMalware]

I'll throw in my $0.02... Last Friday in Washington state I set a full size ipsc at 1650yrs. It took me less than 10 rounds to hit it supported off an electrical tower. I'm pretty happy with that considering that it's the furthest I've every shot. Given that success my friend and I moved back to 1830 yards and engaged the same target. This time it took me 20 shots to connect. We had a bit of a gusty wind, and it started to pick up a little toward the end. Initially we started with about 3mils or so of wind and then later up to 5 to 6 mils. The gusts were very interesting; at one point the wind would push the bullets 5mils left while the wind at our location was blowing gently in the opposite direction. I used nearly all of my available elevation to get out there. I have 28.2 mils available (nightforce Beast with 40moa cant), and I used 28.0 to get on target. I'm shooting a 6.5cm with a 24 inch barrel (1:8) in my AX308. The ammo is factory Hornady 147gr ELD match. I had the magneto speed set up, and it did not affect the elevation at that range. It was interesting to see the correlation between the fast MV that missed over the target and the slow MV that miss low. I plan to reload for a tighter velocity dispersion, and give it another go. I was not impressed with the 147gr ELD match bullets. It took 28 mils at that range while my friend only needed 25 mils using 142 gr sierra match kings. The velocies were about equal as well. His MV was about 2810 while mine was 2791 on average. We were both using 6.5cm, so I used his ammo for 10 shots and I only needed 25 mils. There may be something fishy about the transonic drag of the 147gr ELDm bullets.

Interestingly, the polymer tips make a very distinct impact on painted steel. It leave a little white dot at the center of the impact, so we could distinguish my impacts from his. It didn't look like we had any stability issues. And we are both 24 inch barrels with 1:8 twist, so it leads me to question the ultra high BC of the ELDm for transonic. The G7 BC of 0.351 works pretty well out to 1k yards though.

 

[pdq5oh]

I shoot a 260 to a mile a couple times a month (if I'm lucky). Shooting 147 ELDs at 2815 out of a 26" Criterion barrel takes 72.5 MOA elevation from a 100 yd zero. According to my ballistics program I'm transonic at 1570 yds. I've shot 130 Hybrids, 140 ELDs and 139 Scenars at this distance. The 147s have given me the most success.
Forgot to mention these are 18" plates. One thats for shooting a 50 at is about 30X30". I've shot that one but can't see it move. The 18" plates are moved by the 260.

 

[RyanM]

I shoot a 260 to a mile a couple times a month (if I'm lucky). Shooting 147 ELDs at 2815 out of a 26" Criterion barrel takes 72.5 MOA elevation from a 100 yd zero. According to my ballistics program I'm transonic at 1570 yds. I've shot 130 Hybrids, 140 ELDs and 139 Scenars at this distance. The 147s have given me the most success.

May I ask what the success rate is? The OP has a thread I responded to in a different section and we were talking about this.

Mostly it was about the suitability of SA cartridges for ELR shooting. Are there lots of first round impacts, how many shots to get on, susceptibility to wind, etc.

Thanks!

 

[pdq5oh]

Success rate is low as I've just gotten to shoot this far in the last couple of months. Probably 10-15%. It's also a very tricky place to shoot with multiple winds to call. Tailwind at the line and crosswinds switching around along the bullet's path. Plates are 18" round and a 24X24" plate for 50 cal. Hits on the 18" plate will wobble it. Not so with the bigger plate so hits are hard to call accurately. It seems I'm always right around the 18" plate as impacts are visible. It's not like there's no rhyme or reason as to where my bullets impact. Corrections are noted and POI moves accordingly. I haven't had the problem of a hit 5 min high than 10 min low next shot. There's a guy who is an extremely good shooter that has a much better success rate with a 260 than I do. A friend of mine shoots a 7SAUM and does quite well at the mile. He's shooting 180 VLDs at 2900. I think in the right hands a 260 is capable of shooting a mile with some degree of accuracy. As to the wind being a problem the 147 ELDs helped tremendously at ELR. The other bullets I tried were much less consistent in the challenging winds.