260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

[Cmonroe]

We picked the perfect Colorado afternoon to test a custom 260 against the 7 Creedmore, winds averaging between 20 to 25mph and perpendicular to our course of fire we dove in to see how well the 7 could drive.

First lets start with the 260 specs, shooting the 140 BTHP at 2800 she was stacking rounds even with our condition today it was able to hold a sub 4 inch group at 730 meters.

Now for the 7 Creedmore, it was a Short Action Customs build with Mark's reamer shooting 162 grain Amax. Initial thoughts are that this is going to be popular cartridge. Hats off to Mark, this is one fine built rifle and was also shooting sub 4" groups in the test conditions.

Findings, it's simple the 162 grain drives with ease at 2800 without even starting to work the brass or loosen primmer pockets. For that matter it wasn't even flatting the primmer at 2800. Bottom line the 260 was dialed 2.5 mils for the wind and the 7 Creedmoor was 2.1 mils. Both shoot extremely flat for a non magnum based short action cartridge but yet again the advantage goes to the Creedmoor with 5.4 mils up and 6.0 for the 260.

I'm off to find a barrel, time to build a new little 7.

 

[selfbowhunter]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

very interesting. I wonder how fast a 7mm-08AI could push the 162 if the creedmoor will do 2800 "with ease"?

chuck

 

[CanSniper]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

Pics

 

[turbo54]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

Load specs on the 7 creed?

Powder, charge and COAL?

 

[Cmonroe]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

Load specs for the 260 was 42.8 of H4350 under the Hornady 140 BTHP in Rem brass at 2.800" Pretty standard load. The 7 Creedmoor was made from 308 small primmer Palma brass with Varget and a 162 A-max . Cansniper will have to give us charge and COAL.

 

[CanSniper]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

In the 7 I was running
Formed 308 Lapua palma (small rifle primer) brass
40.6 grns Varget
162 AMAX @ 2.855 oal or just kissing the lands

 

[Cmonroe]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

Thanks to both Mark at Short Action customs and Cansniper for giving me the chance to shoot this awesome caliber. As most of you know I've had the chance to review numerous firearms over the years and this one will standout with a very select few that cause for a change in direction.

Mark your attention to detail in the build is simply amazing and the design on the reamer is spot on.

Cansniper, your brass forming and loads were done to perfection. Guys, my first two rounds were less than an inch apart at this distance.

 

[Freeze]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

What were gun specs....barrel length.

 

[Cmonroe]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

The Short Action Customs 7 Creedmore was a 26" tube and I think it was an 8 twist.

 

[The_FNG]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

Any pics of a loaded 7 creed round?

 

[turbo54]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

7mm Creed on left, 284 Win (long action) on right:

 

[VKC]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

I've looking at this caliber for a while, but just can't justify it as I have a 6.5cm and a 7wsm already.

 

[Cmonroe]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

Yea 7 WSM is defiantly more impressive but the 7 Creedmoor should have greatly increased barrel life.

 

[vonbalkenbush]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

This is a project I'd like to hear more about. Ballistic wind bucking almost identical to 6mm 115 grn DTAC performance at 3100 fps and only slightly more elevation to dial. Plus barrel life probably approaching the 4k-5k mark and a little more kinetic energy downrange. Keep it coming!

-SBS

 

[Nortex]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">very interesting. I wonder how fast a 7mm-08AI could push the 162 if the creedmoor will do 2800 "with ease"?

chuck </div></div>

I have a 7mm-08 AI and get 2900 with Varget out of a 22" 1:10 Krieger I feel my barrel is a little fast and that the 2850 area would be more the norm.

 

[JGorski]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: selfbowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">very interesting. I wonder how fast a 7mm-08AI could push the 162 if the creedmoor will do 2800 "with ease"?

chuck </div></div>
With 2000MR and a 28" tube the 708 can push the 162 past 2800.

 

[Hondo64d]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

Would the .260 have faired better if you had used a 140gr Amax or VLD?

John

 

[tylerw02]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

I wouldn't trash a good shooting .260 for the 7mm. But I would pick a better bullet. I run a Berger 140 hybrid at 2830 without pushing it at all.

 

[jfseaman]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Hondo64d</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Would the .260 have faired better if you had used a 140gr Amax or VLD?

John </div></div>I agree with John

Cmonroe, you were comparing apples to oranges.

IMHO you should have used bullets from the same manufacturer, then the most similar 'model', then the most similar SD.

Using your numbers I plugged it into JMB and got:
A-Max 140, SD .287, G7 BC .299 at 2850, 200yrd zero, 1000yrd drop 26.9moa, drift 6.8
A-Max 162, SD .287, G7 BC .307 at 2850, 200yrd zero, 100oyrd drop 26.4moa, drift 6.4

With ballistics so close, it would be very easy to miss interpret results using 2 different bullets types.

but...

I believe:
the 7CM looks very nice as a round that will fit in a short action magazine with a long exposed bearing surface.
the 7CM looks like barrel life could be longer in the 7CM vs 260 and maybe even better than 7mm-08 but not by much.

Yesterday I was out with my 260. 40 rounds of my best (so far).
6" steel at 700 yards, winds light and variable with gusts to 10mph.
2 to get on target, didn't trust my own wind call

. 30 hits with 12 in a row

. 5 missed wind calls and 3 that were me

.

The 7CM is 'new' so I will watch the forum and see how it goes. The 260 is 'old' and very very rare that anyone has a challenge getting them to shoot well.

 

[LongArm]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

very interesting. I been looking for a new 7mm cartridge.

 

[usmarinejim]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

I love my .260. I had Tom Sarver from Thunder Valley Precision build me a rifle. By far the best rifle I've ever owned.

In truth though, you can't go wrong either way. I like being able to take .308 brass, resizing the neck and making .260 brass. There's a plethora of .308 brass out there to do so.
.260 just works for me though...

 

[scudzuki]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

How does 7mm-08 compare ballistically to 7mm Creedmoor?
Will 7mm-08 cartridges loaded with suitable bullets for long distance (1000 yards or more) fit in AICS magazines?

Joe

 

[turbo54]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: scudzuki</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How does 7mm-08 compare ballistically to 7mm Creedmoor?
Will 7mm-08 cartridges loaded with suitable bullets for long distance (1000 yards or more) fit in AICS magazines?

Joe </div></div>

I'm not a 7cm user, but:

The key advantage to 7cm over 708 is the 7cm allows bullets to be loaded further out of the case without compromising case capacity. With 7cm, you've got full case capacity with 162amax @ ~2.850", while 708 requires ~2.900, with 2.950" being better.

A 708 @ 2.800" in an AICS magazine is absolutely capable of 1000 yards (way, way better than 308). However, 2.900" with plate removed is better...as in 50-75fps better, and 2.950" in Alpha or AW mags is better yet.

 

[CanSniper]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

I have no experience with the 7/08. However the advantage of the 7 creed is in case design. Even though it lacks the capacity of 7/08 it moves the long high bc 7mm bullets up out of the powder column and further into the lands. Coupled with a 30° shoulder makes for a very efficient cartridge. Probably comes down to the same long drawn out argument of 6.5 creed vs 260 rem.
But I think the advantage goes to the creed when dealing with the longer 7mm bullets.

I am not convinced it is the "end all" short action non magnum cartridge, but is definitely a viable option. Brass prep is as simple as running a 6.5 creed case through a full length die. Even forming from 308 brass is not that hard, only requiring extra trimming and neck turning. Over all though I am very impressed with the performance, both ballistics and accuracy. And if you are a hunter the extra energy on target is a plus. As you see from the pics...where we shoot wind rules.

Any way that's just my thought on why I chose this cartridge, and thought we could share our experience with the Hide.

 

[Twisted300Win MAG]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

Good write up. Iv been looking into a non magnum 7mm for silhouette. I'm going to have to look into this some more.

 

[The_FNG]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Twisted300Win MAG</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good write up. Iv been looking into a non magnum 7mm for silhouette. I'm going to have to look into this some more. </div></div>

Probably a great choice for silhouette shooting.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

Guys-
Where are 7CM dies available for sale? Nothing on Midway...
thanks,
-james

 

[flounderv2]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: JamesBailey</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guys-
Where are 7CM dies available for sale? Nothing on Midway...
thanks,
-james
</div></div>

James, the 7CM is a wildcat.

I believe Mark Gordon (Short Action Customs) is opening up Redding 6.5CM dies to 7. There are no factory 7cm dies available at this point. Give Mark a call if youre interested.

 

[jbailey]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: flounderv2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">James, the 7CM is a wildcat.

I believe Mark Gordon (Short Action Customs) is opening up Redding 6.5CM dies to 7. There are no factory 7cm dies available at this point. Give Mark a call if youre interested. </div></div>

thank you sir!

 

[Mgordon]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

I do have dies for the 7mm CM. We have been opening up 6.5 CM dies and installing 7mm sizing stems and seating components. Let me know if you need any.

Mark

 

[Tomg]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

I have a 7mm Creedmoor for sale in the classified section, it is one of Mark's builds and the quality is the best I've ever seen!

This is a great little cartridge and very accurate and easy to load!

 

[CanSniper]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

Got some questions on brass forming from 308, so I posted a write up in the reloading section.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3840665&gonew=1#UNREAD

 

[jbailey]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CanSniper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Got some questions on brass forming from 308, so I posted a write up in the reloading section.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3840665&gonew=1#UNREAD

</div></div>

Great writeup CanSniper. Your efforts are much appreciated! thanks

 

[bribri]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

Tag

 

[Marksman]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

I really need someone to chamber a Savage small shank barrel for this round so I can try it out before I decide to go with a full blown custom.

 

[MdrnBR]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

Great write up. If I'm not mistaken, I think Mark originally coined the round 7mm SAC. That guy never ceases to amaze me.

 

[turbo54]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Marksman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I really need someone to chamber a Savage small shank barrel for this round so I can try it out before I decide to go with a full blown custom. </div></div>

I'm sure mark could easily set you up. He probably wouldn't even need your action.

 

[Boogaloo]

Re: 260 vs 7 Creedmoor Shootout

These are the threads I yearn for when I come here to read for hours on end.
Thank you!