.260ai vs 6.5 creed in a new howa build

[ianagos]

Firstly like to say hello I've been around the forum for a while but have never posted. I'm an active duty Marine but don't get to shoot for my job as a electronics technician so I shoot back home when on leave in Georgia.

Anyways that's my little backstory.

So I'm planning a build of a Howa 1500 short action in a 6.5 caliber. My howa has a standard bolt face so I'm looking at 6.5x47, 6.5 creedmoor, or .260 Ai. Now I'd like to shoot the nosler 140 rdfs as they are pretty cheap and seem to be decent bullets. I shoot the 175gr out of my .308 and they do well. So I'm having trouble on my caliber selection. I want a .260ai but I'm worried about fitting these long bullets to mag length and still nearing the lands. Also another thing against the .260 is that I have a 6.5 creedmoor .195nk .188 fb reamer. I also have a small machine shop with the capability to do everything but thread for metrics so of course the action I decide to build off has metric threads. Planning on getting a pacnor prefit and they are willing to cut the tenon for me although a bit steep at $125. So that's basically my conundrum which caliber and do I chamber myself in 6.5creed or get pacnor to long chamber for me in .260ai? I hear the sweet spot for 140gr projectiles is 2900 fps will the creedmoor get me there easily? More points are that 6.5 creed lapua brass is much more expensive than .260 lapua. I have never used lapua brass but I'm planning on moving towards it I currently use .308 lc match in my .308 but I hear lapua is the way to go. Also I don't care for hornady brass after experiencing their .338 lapua which is horrible brass.

I'd like to mention I have no other 6.5s only .223, .243, and .308 so I'll have to buy powders, does and bullets either way. I do reload.

Barrel length and contour is still a toss up in thinking 28" and I'll chop it down to 26" if I don't like it. Heavy Palma or sendero contour I think. Maybe med Palma.

Optic is a 5x25 vortex pst gen 2 moa still on backorder though no clue if it will even get there in time for me to have the rifle done when I go home on leave in late September. I chose moa because that's what I know and have other scopes in moa.

Stock is a Richards microfit benchmark. I wanted a grs hybrid or a McMillan but that was out of the price range and I have a strong addiction for laminate stocks even though they weigh a ton.

For now I just shoot to around 700 yards but eventually I'd like to start doing prs and a that time I'll prob have to get a McMillan or manner stock to lighten the gun up but for now I think I'll be able to thin the Richards microfit down enough to be usable I'll also be adding an adjustable cheek piece.

I am on a pretty limited budget and try to grab used stuff when I can so far I'm -$300 into the action
-an undisclosed amount for the scope
-$180 stock
- planning about $450 for a barrel with tennon cut
-$100 vortex matched rings
-$40 20 moa rail


If that was too much let me know and I can clarify more stuff or if I'm in violation of some rules or in the wrong forum please let me know.

 

[Geno C.]

This is a 140vld set .010" off the lands in a .060" freebore chamber. They're seated pretty deep but I'm still at 2925fps out of a 27" barrel and they fit and feed out of my FN tbm mags. There is room to go faster but this is where the accuracy is. On draw back with the AI is getting them to feed. The shoulder is steep... my coned breach helps a lot though. I'm not sure I'd run it in a flat or stepped breach; not sure what the Howa has. When my last straight 260 barrel was at its peak, I was right at 2900 but not many run that fast and not trash brass

 

[ianagos]

The howa has a stepped breach I believe. Feeding is something I really didn't think about. What kind of mv are people getting out of the creedmoor? The 30degree shoulder should feed well?

 

[fdkay]

the .260 AI is a good cartridge, but a throat burner.
If you are pinching pennies for the build, consider that with the AI, you'll be replacing the barrel every year.
You'll also need to fireform brass, which isn't terribly hard, but another step you'll need to take, remember, every shot down the bore reduces overall barrel life.
A straight .243 with a fast twist barrel will let you shoot the 107+ pills and will be very competitive. (since you apparently have the dies already).
Regular barrel replacement will still be an issue but fire forming isn't required.
Slightly longer barrel life can be had with the 7-08 and the 162 ELD match bullets.
Superior to the .308, more recoil than the .243 or 6.5, barrel life somewhere between the regular .260 and .308.

 

[ianagos]

Good to know I thought the .260 wouldn't be such a barrel burner and thought the .243 would be worst. Could go with the .243 I'll have to add that as an option now. Current .243 has a 1-10 twist and I don't think will stabilize those bullets. Either way I'll be buying some competition dies vs cheap dies I got.

 

[fdkay]

Good to know I thought the .260 wouldn't be such a barrel burner and thought the .243 would be worst. Could go with the .243 I'll have to add that as an option now. Current .243 has a 1-10 twist and I don't think will stabilize those bullets. Either way I'll be buying some competition dies vs cheap dies I got.

You specifically listed the .260 AI, which is approaching the 6.5-284 in overbore.
Standard .260 won't be near as bad and it just slightly worse than the 6.5CM.
The .260 and 6.5 will have better barrel life than the .243, the 7mm better than those and the .308 best when it comes to throat erosion.
You'll probably want a 7.5 twist barrel in the .243 if you want to shoot the 115 DTACS, you could probably get by with a 1-8 if shooting the 107 class bullets.
Most of the competitors are shooting the 6 mms now, as it reduces recovery time between shots and minimizes recoil.
If you are going to buy new dies, then you may want to look at the 6mm Creedmoor

If you think you might have to buy ammo, than the 6.5 is the answer as there are plentiful match rounds at reasonable prices.

 

[Roestalker]

If you'd be happy with mid-2800s and the 140gr bullets, the Creedmoor would be fine. But 2900 might be a stretch with conventional powders, even using a 28" barrel.

The one exception is that some people are seeing exceptional speeds using the much slower-burning RL-26 in 6.5 Creedmoor. It seems to be capable of very high velocities, with moderate pressures, for anything in the 135gr-147gr range.

 

[flatland1]

I had PTG grind a set of 260 Imp 30* reamers for me a few years back, and was very happy with a SA M700 with a 1-8 Krieger in sendero contour in a McM A5. Only downside was that I had the neck dia done at .295", which is the same as Lapua 260 brass measures with a bullet seated. So I originally started with WW 243 brass necked-up, and had very good accuracy. Eventually, I decided to try some Lapua after neck turning, and it's good stuff - no better accuracy than I get out of the WW, but very consistent brass. I never ran loads warm enough to get 2900 with any of the 140-142gr bullets I shoot, but accuracy was vg at 2840fps.

Did a 6.5x47 in a Bighorn TL2-SA in a Manners T4A a year or so later, and that rifle has been such a hammer with 140VLDs or Hybrids at just under 2800 that I set the 260 Imp 30* aside. I'd expect a 6.5 CM to shoot about as well as the Lapua, and since you've already got the reamer.....why not try it?

 

[ianagos]

So as an update to this kind of took some suggestions and also put a bit more cash into it along with grabbing better reloading gear and a better stock

So now the build is

-28" pacnor super match 6.5mm 1-8 twist heavy Palma chambered by me for 6.5 creedmoor match (.295nk .183 FB)
-Howa sa
-Manners t2a stock (awesome service from the whole crew there)
-ptg stealth aics bottom metal
- aics 5rd and accurate 10rd mags
-Athlon Cronus 4.5-27
-Harris sbrm
-Seekins 1.1" 34mm rings
- Burris 34mm scope level
- vortex defender caps


That is what I've got so far but I still need help purchasing a couple other things like the piccatiny rail. I'm looking for the tallest 20 moa rail possible because it seems like I am going to have clearance issues with the rings I have and my scope bell with caps and the barrel contour. The nightforce standard duty looks like the tallest I can find although they look weak compared to other rails. What do you guys think?

Also need suggestions on a sling I'm partial to my issue vtac sling but it's missing an arm cuff for this type of shooting what's a simple sling that will fulfill these purposes? Stock Will have flush cups on the side.


I bought a forester coax also have rcbs hornady and lee presses. I bought hornady match dies along with a lee set for the neck sizer and a a lot other goodies for reloading. But will consider grabbing forester dies if you guys think the hornadys won't cut the cake.

The bullets are going to be nosler 140gr rdfs as I got them for the great price of $190 per thousand new. But if they don't shoot I'll get some eldm or maybe Berger hybrids.

Brass I have is new hornady 6.5 creedmoor along with once fired.

Primers I have S&b lr as from some tests I saw these are awesome primers but if I find federal match I'll grab those but I haven't yet. Also have cci LR but they seem pretty lousy and I can't find the match ones either. I do have federal 215m and I may experiment with those. But those I use on the .338 lapua and can't find them often.

Powder is up in the air but seems like the best I'll be able to find is Imr 4350 so that is gonna have to do.

Also have a question about muzzle threading my plan was to cut a 3/4-28 thread on the muzzle but would a 3/4-24 be better? I would like to cut as big a thread as possible since I've heard cutting a small thread can actually relieve stresses and open up your barrel bell mouthing it a bit? The barrel is .950" on the end.
Because muzzle breaks are stupid expensive for what they are it seems like I'll just make up my own. And eventually I have plans on doing a form one build on a silencer similar to a aac cyclone but more titanium with a inconel blast baffle or something like that.

And last question for this post. I'll be painting the barreled action before I pillar bed it but I do not have a curing oven nor good enough experience with cerakote. So I'm planning on duracoating it and curing in a hot box. My other options would be allumahyde 2. But duracoat is cheap and easy but still durable. So what do you guys think of duracoat? I'll be doing the tactical black or tactical gray. Any other suggestions the hottest I can hope for is about 175 degrees in my home brew hot box so if you know of something else that I could cure at that temperature let me know. Note: I will be airbrushing this on.

 

[Jackalope]

You can cure cerakote at that temperature. Will just take more time. I've found it to be a lot more forgiving than some people claim. Blasting and degreasing thoroughly are a must though.

 

[ianagos]

You can cure cerakote at that temperature. Will just take more time. I've found it to be a lot more forgiving than some people claim. Blasting and degreasing thoroughly are a must though.

Yea that's another thing sandblasting will be difficult for me as I sold most of my sandblasting equipment so I'd have to buy more of that. I was just going to scuff for the duracoat and if it's that bad it's easy to strip and reapply vs ceracoat is only going to come off with sandblasting. It's just that I don't have the confidence or time to do a real cerakote job.