-
Having trouble using the site?
Contact support
3 gun AR's
- Thread starter Bluejazz
- Start date
Re: 3 gun AR's
You might want to better define/consider your use.
What I use to do well at 3-gun matches is different than what I grab for a bump in the night.
If you want to compete with a fighting gun, you will probably not win the match, but you will be ingraining shooting ability. If you try to gunfight with a competition rifle you will be distinctly behind the curve due to size, optics, lack of light, and operation that is probably right at the edge of reliability.
Now, if this is your first competition AR to be used for 3-gun, ignore my dissertaion, but please do not mistake my low post count here as an indication of knowledge or experience level.
You might want to better define/consider your use.
What I use to do well at 3-gun matches is different than what I grab for a bump in the night.
If you want to compete with a fighting gun, you will probably not win the match, but you will be ingraining shooting ability. If you try to gunfight with a competition rifle you will be distinctly behind the curve due to size, optics, lack of light, and operation that is probably right at the edge of reliability.
Now, if this is your first competition AR to be used for 3-gun, ignore my dissertaion, but please do not mistake my low post count here as an indication of knowledge or experience level.
Re: 3 gun AR's
I agree I need to define my perimeters better.
I want an AR I can hunt coyotes with, but also have fun with a local club doing 3 gun. I have no illusion on being the best at 3 gun, just can't afford multiple AR's.
I agree I need to define my perimeters better.
I want an AR I can hunt coyotes with, but also have fun with a local club doing 3 gun. I have no illusion on being the best at 3 gun, just can't afford multiple AR's.
Re: 3 gun AR's
There isn't much a 16" middie can't do within the realistic expectations of 5.56. My GP AR is a 16" BCM. With an optics swap and use of applicable ammo (or when the new generation of 1-8X optics hit the market) it can go from CQB/urban in any lighting condition to 500 meters on torso targets.
My competition AR is an 18" Noveske. It's great, but not really the best stick for fighting inside.
The new trend of 14.5 middies have a strong following, but you do lose a significant amount of MV, which is directly relevant to terminal performance of 5.56 as range increases.
ETA: as far as holes in paper are concerned, optics will be the biggest contributor to accuracy. I have a distinct preference for quality 1X optics (or a low-powered variable with the bottom being as close to true 1X as possible) for a fighting rifle. When it comes to daylight competitions, low-powered fix magnification in the 3-5X range do very well, such as the TA11 and TA33 ACOG series. I am not a fan of the TA31 or TA01 series due to their constricting eye-relief. The addition of a 3X magnifier to an Aimpoint T-1/H-1, Comp M2/M3/M4 (or C3), or EoTech (many different models with the 1 MOA and 65 MOA halo, just different battery sources, or the XPS with it's lateral CR123 battery, or EXPS with lateral battery and built-in mount) do well out to 300 meters or so with a 100 meter zero as long as you know your holds past 150. Beyond 300 is do-able, but requires many more sighters due to the difficulty in obtaining hold and observing strike.
There isn't much a 16" middie can't do within the realistic expectations of 5.56. My GP AR is a 16" BCM. With an optics swap and use of applicable ammo (or when the new generation of 1-8X optics hit the market) it can go from CQB/urban in any lighting condition to 500 meters on torso targets.
My competition AR is an 18" Noveske. It's great, but not really the best stick for fighting inside.
The new trend of 14.5 middies have a strong following, but you do lose a significant amount of MV, which is directly relevant to terminal performance of 5.56 as range increases.
ETA: as far as holes in paper are concerned, optics will be the biggest contributor to accuracy. I have a distinct preference for quality 1X optics (or a low-powered variable with the bottom being as close to true 1X as possible) for a fighting rifle. When it comes to daylight competitions, low-powered fix magnification in the 3-5X range do very well, such as the TA11 and TA33 ACOG series. I am not a fan of the TA31 or TA01 series due to their constricting eye-relief. The addition of a 3X magnifier to an Aimpoint T-1/H-1, Comp M2/M3/M4 (or C3), or EoTech (many different models with the 1 MOA and 65 MOA halo, just different battery sources, or the XPS with it's lateral CR123 battery, or EXPS with lateral battery and built-in mount) do well out to 300 meters or so with a 100 meter zero as long as you know your holds past 150. Beyond 300 is do-able, but requires many more sighters due to the difficulty in obtaining hold and observing strike.
Re: 3 gun AR's
build your own you can save a little bit of coin and you can build it around you and what you want.
here is what i think and some may disagre but it is my opinion. build a quality rifle i say build it your self because if you do you will know it inside and out. the tools are cheep and the options are numirous. make sure you free float the barrel, get a good trigger and a good barrel.
if you build your own you can buy 2 barrels one for hunting and one for 3 gun and fun. if you know your rifle you can switch the barrel out in about 30min. i have 2 AR'S at this point one for accuracy and one for fun and a 3rd on the way. i built them and i saved several hundred on each.
if you build your own the extra mony you save can aford you the second barrel a good target barrel $400 a 3gun and fun barrel $250 blackhole wheponry has great prices on good barrels
build your own you can save a little bit of coin and you can build it around you and what you want.
here is what i think and some may disagre but it is my opinion. build a quality rifle i say build it your self because if you do you will know it inside and out. the tools are cheep and the options are numirous. make sure you free float the barrel, get a good trigger and a good barrel.
if you build your own you can buy 2 barrels one for hunting and one for 3 gun and fun. if you know your rifle you can switch the barrel out in about 30min. i have 2 AR'S at this point one for accuracy and one for fun and a 3rd on the way. i built them and i saved several hundred on each.
if you build your own the extra mony you save can aford you the second barrel a good target barrel $400 a 3gun and fun barrel $250 blackhole wheponry has great prices on good barrels
Re: 3 gun AR's
I just built my own for 3-gun. Its a seekins lower with a rainier match upper, WOA 16" barrel with matching bolt. BCM FA Ionbond group carrier, Spikes (Seekins Built) BAR rail system, Magpul AFG, Magpul UBR stock, JP adjustable gas block and I am sure I missed some things but it shoots super smooth and nice.
I just built my own for 3-gun. Its a seekins lower with a rainier match upper, WOA 16" barrel with matching bolt. BCM FA Ionbond group carrier, Spikes (Seekins Built) BAR rail system, Magpul AFG, Magpul UBR stock, JP adjustable gas block and I am sure I missed some things but it shoots super smooth and nice.
Re: 3 gun AR's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">14.5" JP pinned comp with NXS 2.5-10x24 with Trijicon RMR offset.
</div></div>
I would go with this but use a Short Dot with Cat Tail instead
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">14.5" JP pinned comp with NXS 2.5-10x24 with Trijicon RMR offset.
I would go with this but use a Short Dot with Cat Tail instead
Re: 3 gun AR's
If you get a barrel shorter than 18" you can run into problems with loads not making minor power factor. At a big match where they chrono your ammo and you don't make minor, you will shoot for no score.
Just about everyone will end up with a 18" upper from JP.
If you get a barrel shorter than 18" you can run into problems with loads not making minor power factor. At a big match where they chrono your ammo and you don't make minor, you will shoot for no score.
Just about everyone will end up with a 18" upper from JP.
Re: 3 gun AR's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Retoocs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you get a barrel shorter than 18" you can run into problems with loads not making minor power factor. At a big match where they chrono your ammo and you don't make minor, you will shoot for no score.
Just about everyone will end up with a 18" upper from JP. </div></div>
HUH?
I shoot just about every major 3-gun and USPSA Multigun in the country and have never had my 16 inch shooting factory ammo have a issue.
The biggest issue with power factor is with pistols not rifles.
But something to consider if you are making light rifle loads!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Retoocs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you get a barrel shorter than 18" you can run into problems with loads not making minor power factor. At a big match where they chrono your ammo and you don't make minor, you will shoot for no score.
Just about everyone will end up with a 18" upper from JP. </div></div>
HUH?
I shoot just about every major 3-gun and USPSA Multigun in the country and have never had my 16 inch shooting factory ammo have a issue.
The biggest issue with power factor is with pistols not rifles.
But something to consider if you are making light rifle loads!
Re: 3 gun AR's
Second thing to think about ..... Outlaw 3 gun stuff .... shoot what their rules allow .... USPSA has a much sticter set of rules and will only allow one optic in Tac Ops ..... no magnified optic and dot combos.
Second thing to think about ..... Outlaw 3 gun stuff .... shoot what their rules allow .... USPSA has a much sticter set of rules and will only allow one optic in Tac Ops ..... no magnified optic and dot combos.
Re: 3 gun AR's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NOMAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot just about every major 3-gun and USPSA Multigun in the country and have never had my 16 inch shooting factory ammo have a issue.
The biggest issue with power factor is with pistols not rifles.
But something to consider if you are making light rifle loads! </div></div>
Many 55 gr. commercial ammo will not make minor out of a 16" barrel, PMC is the worst.
Magnifiers can be used in USPSA in the Tactical division.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NOMAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot just about every major 3-gun and USPSA Multigun in the country and have never had my 16 inch shooting factory ammo have a issue.
The biggest issue with power factor is with pistols not rifles.
But something to consider if you are making light rifle loads! </div></div>
Many 55 gr. commercial ammo will not make minor out of a 16" barrel, PMC is the worst.
Magnifiers can be used in USPSA in the Tactical division.
Re: 3 gun AR's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Retoocs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NOMAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot just about every major 3-gun and USPSA Multigun in the country and have never had my 16 inch shooting factory ammo have a issue.
The biggest issue with power factor is with pistols not rifles.
But something to consider if you are making light rifle loads! </div></div>
Many 55 gr. commercial ammo will not make minor out of a 16" barrel, PMC is the worst.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Magnifiers can be used in USPSA in the Tactical division.</span> </div></div>
Magnifiers can be used with a non magnified optic such as an Eotech or Aimpoint. BUT a magnified optic can not be used along with a small dot sight off to the side unless shooting open class.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Retoocs</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NOMAD</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I shoot just about every major 3-gun and USPSA Multigun in the country and have never had my 16 inch shooting factory ammo have a issue.
The biggest issue with power factor is with pistols not rifles.
But something to consider if you are making light rifle loads! </div></div>
Many 55 gr. commercial ammo will not make minor out of a 16" barrel, PMC is the worst.
<span style="color: #FF0000">Magnifiers can be used in USPSA in the Tactical division.</span> </div></div>
Magnifiers can be used with a non magnified optic such as an Eotech or Aimpoint. BUT a magnified optic can not be used along with a small dot sight off to the side unless shooting open class.
Re: 3 gun AR's
I am using a 16 inch mid. S&B Short Dot. Geissele trigger and SF brake. Pretty simple set-up.
When I need a sling I use a Ching Sling or a Blue Force Tactical.
I am using a 16 inch mid. S&B Short Dot. Geissele trigger and SF brake. Pretty simple set-up.
When I need a sling I use a Ching Sling or a Blue Force Tactical.
Re: 3 gun AR's
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just built my own for 3-gun. Its a seekins lower with a rainier match upper, WOA 16" barrel with matching bolt. BCM FA Ionbond group carrier, Spikes (Seekins Built) BAR rail system, Magpul AFG, Magpul UBR stock, JP adjustable gas block and I am sure I missed some things but it shoots super smooth and nice. </div></div>
sounds like a nice ar. i love those seekings lowers.
look into a lilja AR barrel. they shoot great.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just built my own for 3-gun. Its a seekins lower with a rainier match upper, WOA 16" barrel with matching bolt. BCM FA Ionbond group carrier, Spikes (Seekins Built) BAR rail system, Magpul AFG, Magpul UBR stock, JP adjustable gas block and I am sure I missed some things but it shoots super smooth and nice. </div></div>
sounds like a nice ar. i love those seekings lowers.
look into a lilja AR barrel. they shoot great.
