I have heard that these were good bullets for hunting deer and other med. sized game but I am skeptical because buying them over the counter they say the're for personal defence and advice
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Hunting & Fishing 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
- Thread starter 308club
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Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
Never used an A-max but I will toss this out. This is just my opinion.
Not for a 308, only in a 30-06 or bigger, probably a 300 mag of some kind, that way you can push that big bullet to good speed; however, I think that your using more gun than you need if you are hunting deer unless you are out west and need long range or you are hunting over a beanfield (I know that they have those in SC) or someplace else where you can use the legs on a mag.
If your shots are the typical white tail 50 to 250yds I'd get something with a lot less recoil and cheaper to shoot.
Never used an A-max but I will toss this out. This is just my opinion.
Not for a 308, only in a 30-06 or bigger, probably a 300 mag of some kind, that way you can push that big bullet to good speed; however, I think that your using more gun than you need if you are hunting deer unless you are out west and need long range or you are hunting over a beanfield (I know that they have those in SC) or someplace else where you can use the legs on a mag.
If your shots are the typical white tail 50 to 250yds I'd get something with a lot less recoil and cheaper to shoot.
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
I use 168 A-Max bullets in my .300WM for deer and antelope. They work great for long range shots because they are extremely accurate, up close they are devastating becasue they blow up at high speeds. If I am within 200 yards I am high on the neck or center of the ribs to prevent too much damage to the meat. I hit one antelope doe broadside through the ribs at about 75 yards, the exit hole was big enough to reach inside, the rib cage was empty except for a few strands of heart and lung.
I use 168 A-Max bullets in my .300WM for deer and antelope. They work great for long range shots because they are extremely accurate, up close they are devastating becasue they blow up at high speeds. If I am within 200 yards I am high on the neck or center of the ribs to prevent too much damage to the meat. I hit one antelope doe broadside through the ribs at about 75 yards, the exit hole was big enough to reach inside, the rib cage was empty except for a few strands of heart and lung.
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
FWIW, killed deer with both the 168 Amax and the 208 Amax. The 208's worked ok in a '06 but if you like to eat what what you kill the 168's are a little too frangible. We tried 'em in my kid's 308 at 2650ish fps, and even that was too much for our liking.
There's better bullets for killin' eatin' meat.....
FWIW, killed deer with both the 168 Amax and the 208 Amax. The 208's worked ok in a '06 but if you like to eat what what you kill the 168's are a little too frangible. We tried 'em in my kid's 308 at 2650ish fps, and even that was too much for our liking.
There's better bullets for killin' eatin' meat.....
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
Just shot another two deer last weekend with 168 a-max (308).
Great bullet, very rapid expansion at short range head and neck shots, I find expands much quicker than VLD's. At longer ranges still expands enough on body shot's. 155 and 168's are much more accurate in my rifle than sst's.
edi
Just shot another two deer last weekend with 168 a-max (308).
Great bullet, very rapid expansion at short range head and neck shots, I find expands much quicker than VLD's. At longer ranges still expands enough on body shot's. 155 and 168's are much more accurate in my rifle than sst's.
edi
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
Thank for yalls input. Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the only way to buy them over the counter is Hornady tap. One of my buddies shot these last year and we lost a deer due to lack of blood the next day we found it only to reveal that the bullet came apart just after pennetration. It was shot square in the shoulder and only tiny fragments came out the other side and the shot was about 100 yrds. Have yall ever heard of this and what is a good hunting bullet for the 308
Thank for yalls input. Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the only way to buy them over the counter is Hornady tap. One of my buddies shot these last year and we lost a deer due to lack of blood the next day we found it only to reveal that the bullet came apart just after pennetration. It was shot square in the shoulder and only tiny fragments came out the other side and the shot was about 100 yrds. Have yall ever heard of this and what is a good hunting bullet for the 308
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cadillac Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank for yalls input. Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the only way to buy them over the counter is Hornady tap. One of my buddies shot these last year and we lost a deer due to lack of blood the next day we found it only to reveal that the bullet came apart just after pennetration. It was shot square in the shoulder and only tiny fragments came out the other side and the shot was about 100 yrds. Have yall ever heard of this and what is a good hunting bullet for the 308 </div></div>
CJ TAP is the only way to get loaded over the counter ammo.Unless somebody is custom loading. I used 155 TAP on deer here.Never again. Using 168 AMAX this year. 155 blood shot alot of meat. Put the slug in the ribs, no shoulder bone shots.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cadillac Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank for yalls input. Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the only way to buy them over the counter is Hornady tap. One of my buddies shot these last year and we lost a deer due to lack of blood the next day we found it only to reveal that the bullet came apart just after pennetration. It was shot square in the shoulder and only tiny fragments came out the other side and the shot was about 100 yrds. Have yall ever heard of this and what is a good hunting bullet for the 308 </div></div>
CJ TAP is the only way to get loaded over the counter ammo.Unless somebody is custom loading. I used 155 TAP on deer here.Never again. Using 168 AMAX this year. 155 blood shot alot of meat. Put the slug in the ribs, no shoulder bone shots.
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
I prefer Barnes X bullets in 150,165 and 168 grain and I prefer to take out the front shoulders and the lungs on a broadside shot and if head on, straight through the heart.
I think it's much wiser to make sure that deer cannot go anywhere which makes for a cleaner kill and less running and less tracking than it is for alittle bit of damage on the front shoulders.
If the deer can't even stand, it aint going far. If you blow out it's lungs, it can't breath. Job finished in record time.
I am not a fan of neck shots even though many have killed deer that way and swear by doing so. A person has to be either high on the neck for the spine or low on the neck for the jugular and wind pipe. If you shoot between the two it's just about worthless and will lead to a slightly bleeding wound that the deer can survive. If you shoot necks just make sure you place your shot right and use a bullet that fragments for a quick explosion.
......SmokeRolls
I prefer Barnes X bullets in 150,165 and 168 grain and I prefer to take out the front shoulders and the lungs on a broadside shot and if head on, straight through the heart.
I think it's much wiser to make sure that deer cannot go anywhere which makes for a cleaner kill and less running and less tracking than it is for alittle bit of damage on the front shoulders.
If the deer can't even stand, it aint going far. If you blow out it's lungs, it can't breath. Job finished in record time.
I am not a fan of neck shots even though many have killed deer that way and swear by doing so. A person has to be either high on the neck for the spine or low on the neck for the jugular and wind pipe. If you shoot between the two it's just about worthless and will lead to a slightly bleeding wound that the deer can survive. If you shoot necks just make sure you place your shot right and use a bullet that fragments for a quick explosion.
......SmokeRolls
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
Im currently reloading my own ammo now and using a 165 gr sierra game king and have had very very good sucess with these projectiles, but everyone keeps telling me that the a-max is the real deal. Im not much worried about the messing up meat but I do like the shoulder shot and recovering the animal quickly, and I guess what I'm asking is will they hold up to shooting a deer from 75 to 150 yards dead in the shoulder running around 2750 fps
Im currently reloading my own ammo now and using a 165 gr sierra game king and have had very very good sucess with these projectiles, but everyone keeps telling me that the a-max is the real deal. Im not much worried about the messing up meat but I do like the shoulder shot and recovering the animal quickly, and I guess what I'm asking is will they hold up to shooting a deer from 75 to 150 yards dead in the shoulder running around 2750 fps
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
Hornady Match bullets are 168 Amax. They kill good and fast. 4 hog, 1 deer, and 2 bobcats within the last 12 months between the 168 and 178. They can cause a good bit of meat damage but I still put the on the front shoulder and the animal is drt.
Oh and this topic has been discussed extensively so do a search and you will find a ton of threads about it. Happy reading.
Hornady Match bullets are 168 Amax. They kill good and fast. 4 hog, 1 deer, and 2 bobcats within the last 12 months between the 168 and 178. They can cause a good bit of meat damage but I still put the on the front shoulder and the animal is drt.
Oh and this topic has been discussed extensively so do a search and you will find a ton of threads about it. Happy reading.
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
Btw my shots were from 25yds to 230 yds running from 2634 (178) to 2700+ (168). No exits, just massive internal damage resulting in good, clean kills. The animals never moved after they were shot. They should be fine with what you are trying up accomplish.
Btw my shots were from 25yds to 230 yds running from 2634 (178) to 2700+ (168). No exits, just massive internal damage resulting in good, clean kills. The animals never moved after they were shot. They should be fine with what you are trying up accomplish.
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Load some up and try 'em....no better substitute for BT/DT than your own first hand experience.
</div></div>
I agree. Aim small, miss small.
Pull the trigger.
Sharpen the knife.
Eat good and thank PETA (People for the Eating of Tasty Animals)
......SmokeRolls
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Tripwire</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Load some up and try 'em....no better substitute for BT/DT than your own first hand experience.
</div></div>
I agree. Aim small, miss small.
Pull the trigger.
Sharpen the knife.
Eat good and thank PETA (People for the Eating of Tasty Animals)
......SmokeRolls
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cadillac Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank for yalls input. Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the only way to buy them over the counter is Hornady tap. One of my buddies shot these last year and we lost a deer due to lack of blood the next day we found it only to reveal that the bullet came apart just after pennetration. It was shot square in the shoulder and only tiny fragments came out the other side and the shot was about 100 yrds. Have yall ever heard of this and what is a good hunting bullet for the 308 </div></div>
I've had one 155 a-max fail on me, quartering too animal shot on the shoulder.
Bullet "bounced off" broke up and only shallow penetration was the result.
The same happened to me before with a 150gr federal fusion bullet which is an extremely tough
hunting bullet. Also happened to a friend of mine with a Nosler BT & 6.5x55.
I just avoid shoulder shots no matter what the angle and no matter what bullet.
edi
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cadillac Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank for yalls input. Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the only way to buy them over the counter is Hornady tap. One of my buddies shot these last year and we lost a deer due to lack of blood the next day we found it only to reveal that the bullet came apart just after pennetration. It was shot square in the shoulder and only tiny fragments came out the other side and the shot was about 100 yrds. Have yall ever heard of this and what is a good hunting bullet for the 308 </div></div>
I've had one 155 a-max fail on me, quartering too animal shot on the shoulder.
Bullet "bounced off" broke up and only shallow penetration was the result.
The same happened to me before with a 150gr federal fusion bullet which is an extremely tough
hunting bullet. Also happened to a friend of mine with a Nosler BT & 6.5x55.
I just avoid shoulder shots no matter what the angle and no matter what bullet.
edi
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
I would say forget the match bullets and use a bullet that was designed for hunting. I would go with either a monolithic (TSX, E-Tip, Gmax) or a bonded bullet (Accubond, Trophy Bonded Tip, Scirocco). All of these bullets have very good BC's and can be very accurate, but moreover they are devastating on game and that is what they were designed for. They all offer rapid expansion (even at lower velocities), will stay together and retain most of their weight (at ultra high velocities and when striking bone), and will penetrate deeply if not a complete pass through.
Ask yourself two questions:
1) Why not use a bullet that was designed for game hunting that is equally as accurate as a match bullet?
I shoot 168 gr Barnes T-TSX's out of my .308 at 2,700 fps. I shoot 1/2 MOA groups at 300 with these loads.
2) If you have the trophy of a lifetime in your sights is it worth risking that trophy by using a bullet not meant for hunting?
I would say forget the match bullets and use a bullet that was designed for hunting. I would go with either a monolithic (TSX, E-Tip, Gmax) or a bonded bullet (Accubond, Trophy Bonded Tip, Scirocco). All of these bullets have very good BC's and can be very accurate, but moreover they are devastating on game and that is what they were designed for. They all offer rapid expansion (even at lower velocities), will stay together and retain most of their weight (at ultra high velocities and when striking bone), and will penetrate deeply if not a complete pass through.
Ask yourself two questions:
1) Why not use a bullet that was designed for game hunting that is equally as accurate as a match bullet?
I shoot 168 gr Barnes T-TSX's out of my .308 at 2,700 fps. I shoot 1/2 MOA groups at 300 with these loads.
2) If you have the trophy of a lifetime in your sights is it worth risking that trophy by using a bullet not meant for hunting?
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
this conversation comes up all the time and it is getting boring. Yes, the AMAX will kill deer and hogs so go for it. I choose to use a bonded bullet, Barnes TTSX, Nosler Accubond, Hornady Bonded bullets and others.
this conversation comes up all the time and it is getting boring. Yes, the AMAX will kill deer and hogs so go for it. I choose to use a bonded bullet, Barnes TTSX, Nosler Accubond, Hornady Bonded bullets and others.
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cadillac Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank for yalls input. Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the only way to buy them over the counter is Hornady tap. One of my buddies shot these last year and we lost a deer due to lack of blood the next day we found it only to reveal that the bullet came apart just after pennetration. It was shot square in the shoulder and only tiny fragments came out the other side and the shot was about 100 yrds. Have yall ever heard of this and what is a good hunting bullet for the 308 </div></div>
Yep, that is the usual with target type or match bullets for hunting. Before you flame me and we start the whole SMK thing again, yes I like TSX and MRX boolets, see sig line. BUT..... I also shoot a lot of critters with SMK's and AMAX's too. The key is... knowing what your bullet is best at and placing your shot to best advantage of those characteristics.
Having said all that, we are planning an experiment this fall. We have a Large Number of Cull Animals to be removed this year. We have loaded in identical caliber 40 rounds each of ammo. A minimum of 5 animals per bullet to be shot all thru both shoulders, ranges from 200 to 400 yard. All to be shot in two man teams one acting as spotter. We will photo each kill, and try to recover the bullets when possible. Due to the large numbers of hunters we see each year, some with finest type of equipment and ammo to Walmart specials, we need to finally put to rest what kills best. All the shooters are very well trained and have thousands of rounds experience. We are going to eliminate all possible variables and name names when it is thru. We have seen too many " trusted names in ammunition" leave wounded animals from well placed shots. One particular brand of ballistic tip comes to mind often but will be tested on muscle and bone.
Sorry for the hijack, AMAX can kill well if placed properly. Not so well on a tough animal or on deep bone. Heart lungs or spine, clean shot - good call. Hell, I cull with 55 grain Vmax too, but all short shots, placed behind the ear. NOT something recommended for the average client!
Mikee
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cadillac Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank for yalls input. Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the only way to buy them over the counter is Hornady tap. One of my buddies shot these last year and we lost a deer due to lack of blood the next day we found it only to reveal that the bullet came apart just after pennetration. It was shot square in the shoulder and only tiny fragments came out the other side and the shot was about 100 yrds. Have yall ever heard of this and what is a good hunting bullet for the 308 </div></div>
Yep, that is the usual with target type or match bullets for hunting. Before you flame me and we start the whole SMK thing again, yes I like TSX and MRX boolets, see sig line. BUT..... I also shoot a lot of critters with SMK's and AMAX's too. The key is... knowing what your bullet is best at and placing your shot to best advantage of those characteristics.
Having said all that, we are planning an experiment this fall. We have a Large Number of Cull Animals to be removed this year. We have loaded in identical caliber 40 rounds each of ammo. A minimum of 5 animals per bullet to be shot all thru both shoulders, ranges from 200 to 400 yard. All to be shot in two man teams one acting as spotter. We will photo each kill, and try to recover the bullets when possible. Due to the large numbers of hunters we see each year, some with finest type of equipment and ammo to Walmart specials, we need to finally put to rest what kills best. All the shooters are very well trained and have thousands of rounds experience. We are going to eliminate all possible variables and name names when it is thru. We have seen too many " trusted names in ammunition" leave wounded animals from well placed shots. One particular brand of ballistic tip comes to mind often but will be tested on muscle and bone.
Sorry for the hijack, AMAX can kill well if placed properly. Not so well on a tough animal or on deep bone. Heart lungs or spine, clean shot - good call. Hell, I cull with 55 grain Vmax too, but all short shots, placed behind the ear. NOT something recommended for the average client!
Mikee
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
Thanks to all for replying after some thought I took blklabs advice and done some surfing on the web and best I can tell the reason why the subject keeps coming up is that the jury is still out on this one. I think me personally, I'm not going to risk it. Think I'm prolly gonna stay somewhere in the soft point bullet like gamekings interlocks etc they have worked well for me so far so hell don't mess with a sleepin dog I reckon
Thanks to all for replying after some thought I took blklabs advice and done some surfing on the web and best I can tell the reason why the subject keeps coming up is that the jury is still out on this one. I think me personally, I'm not going to risk it. Think I'm prolly gonna stay somewhere in the soft point bullet like gamekings interlocks etc they have worked well for me so far so hell don't mess with a sleepin dog I reckon
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: edi</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cadillac Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank for yalls input. Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the only way to buy them over the counter is Hornady tap. One of my buddies shot these last year and we lost a deer due to lack of blood the next day we found it only to reveal that the bullet came apart just after pennetration. It was shot square in the shoulder and only tiny fragments came out the other side and the shot was about 100 yrds. Have yall ever heard of this and what is a good hunting bullet for the 308 </div></div>
I've had one 155 a-max fail on me, quartering too animal shot on the shoulder.
Bullet "bounced off" broke up and only shallow penetration was the result.
The same happened to me before with a 150gr federal fusion bullet which is an extremely tough
hunting bullet. Also happened to a friend of mine with a Nosler BT & 6.5x55.
I just avoid shoulder shots no matter what the angle and no matter what bullet.
edi</div></div>
Just my opinion and not trying to start an argument.
I believe there are better choices for shoulder shots than the three bullets you meantioned.
I believe that those three are better on softer areas of deer style animals.
I'm not saying that there is a magical bullet because I know of one mule deer that was shot by my brother-in-law who is a very seasoned outdoorsman and I would classify as a master hunter. He used a hand loaded 30-06 that he has slayed many of mule deer/antelope,elk and stacked in the freezer. He shot the big deer once in the heart, once in the upper back and once somewhere else and it would not go down or stop. It haunted him for a long time because this deer just would not quit nor stop.
Happy hunting no matter what you choose and do the best you can do.
........SmokeRolls
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: edi</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Cadillac Jack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thank for yalls input. Correct me if I'm wrong on this but the only way to buy them over the counter is Hornady tap. One of my buddies shot these last year and we lost a deer due to lack of blood the next day we found it only to reveal that the bullet came apart just after pennetration. It was shot square in the shoulder and only tiny fragments came out the other side and the shot was about 100 yrds. Have yall ever heard of this and what is a good hunting bullet for the 308 </div></div>
I've had one 155 a-max fail on me, quartering too animal shot on the shoulder.
Bullet "bounced off" broke up and only shallow penetration was the result.
The same happened to me before with a 150gr federal fusion bullet which is an extremely tough
hunting bullet. Also happened to a friend of mine with a Nosler BT & 6.5x55.
I just avoid shoulder shots no matter what the angle and no matter what bullet.
edi</div></div>
Just my opinion and not trying to start an argument.
I believe there are better choices for shoulder shots than the three bullets you meantioned.
I believe that those three are better on softer areas of deer style animals.
I'm not saying that there is a magical bullet because I know of one mule deer that was shot by my brother-in-law who is a very seasoned outdoorsman and I would classify as a master hunter. He used a hand loaded 30-06 that he has slayed many of mule deer/antelope,elk and stacked in the freezer. He shot the big deer once in the heart, once in the upper back and once somewhere else and it would not go down or stop. It haunted him for a long time because this deer just would not quit nor stop.
Happy hunting no matter what you choose and do the best you can do.
........SmokeRolls
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
I use 168 gr Amax to shoot Roe deer in a particular situation.
I am just culling them to protect a young woodland. It is a tricky place to 'stalk' on so I just shoot them when I see them. Sometimes that is 450 yards it is rarely less than 250.
The Amax is good for this as it retains velocity pretty well and even a bit further out they are highly effective because they are so frangible. Kills are quick and humane, deer goes right down so it is easy to find.
The downside is that for less than perfect angles and larger species I believe they are too frangible.
If I was hunting for meat I would use something else as the results are explosive. If I was hunting closer then I would also use something else
I use 168 gr Amax to shoot Roe deer in a particular situation.
I am just culling them to protect a young woodland. It is a tricky place to 'stalk' on so I just shoot them when I see them. Sometimes that is 450 yards it is rarely less than 250.
The Amax is good for this as it retains velocity pretty well and even a bit further out they are highly effective because they are so frangible. Kills are quick and humane, deer goes right down so it is easy to find.
The downside is that for less than perfect angles and larger species I believe they are too frangible.
If I was hunting for meat I would use something else as the results are explosive. If I was hunting closer then I would also use something else
Re: 30 cal 168 gr A-max & Hunting
..
My experience is they work well with a well placed shot. Their bc is higher than the SST but they do not have the penetration. But, I have seen SST penetrate right through a small deer. Hornady's own website suggests that it is not recommended for medium size game, though many (most) suggest that it does one hell of a job.
Still, my favorite?
http://www.bergerbullets.com/Cartridges/30%20Cal/308%20Win/308%20Win.html
I still think of the A-Max as a thin skinned bullet.
..
My experience is they work well with a well placed shot. Their bc is higher than the SST but they do not have the penetration. But, I have seen SST penetrate right through a small deer. Hornady's own website suggests that it is not recommended for medium size game, though many (most) suggest that it does one hell of a job.
Still, my favorite?
http://www.bergerbullets.com/Cartridges/30%20Cal/308%20Win/308%20Win.html
I still think of the A-Max as a thin skinned bullet.
I've used 168 Amax out of a 308 for the past few seasons and have two large bucks go down from it, both through the lungs. Neither went farther than 20 yards with one dropping like it was struck by Thor's hammer! There is a texas hunting forum with a multiple pages of kill photos from Amax, however with Photobucket and their crap, the images are all now speedometers. This year I'll be using SST's (my Bergara likes them ALOT!) and I'll be going on my first cow elk hunt
I've always been partial to using hunting bullets for hunting. Hornady list A-max as a target bullet. Just my 2cents. Why wouldn't you just use one of Hornady's hunting bullets?
I’ve shot quite a few with the 178 Amax in 308 and the farthest went 10 yards. They worked well with neck shots but shoulder shots left large exit wounds and tore up too much meat for my liking.
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