300 blackout vs 223 ?

[rookie7]

Stupid question here:

Is the 223 louder than the 300 blackout in same length barrels? Supersonic loads in both, and both not suppressed?

Or - would they be too close to tell or would it be a pre-conceived bias?

Say both shot out of 16" bolt guns using common weight for caliber in supersonic loads.

For arguments sake - noise perceived by someone standing 60' behind shooter.

Thanks

 

[krw]

Wood be to close to tell without a decible meter. But the larger diam 300 BlkOut will be slightly louder because of diam of bullet. Compare jet fighter vs bullet

 

[hlee]

Your ear is a terrible decibel meter. The average person perceives a 10 decibel difference in sound as a 4 fold difference. 10 decibels is a 10 fold difference.

 

[rookie7]

Is there any data on this with a decibel meter? Thanks

 

[hlee]

Human Hearing

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Wood be to close to tell without a decible meter. But the larger diam 300 BlkOut will be slightly louder because of diam of bullet. Compare jet fighter vs bullet

You're gonna have to explain that a bit better before anyone knows if they agree or disagree.

 

[rookie7]

@hlee thanks for the link, but I meant is there actual scientific data comparing the 2 cartridges?

I have seen a few YouTube videos where people compare them by listening, but as you stated the human ear is the not the tool.

 

[LawnMM]

Why does it matter?

 

[rookie7]

Why does it matter?

That’s exactly why I asked this in the stupid forum. I knew someone would ask why it matters.

If I were going to build a 16” bolt rifle for my daughter to shoot for fun and practice (and of course I would shoot it too), theoretically I want the cartridge with the least noise and blast.

We will be wearing hearing pro. I reload, and we would be shooting supers unsupressed.

I don’t want to know how to mitigate or get around the blast - I know that.

I just want to know are they too similar to tell or matter? Or is the 223 going to be significantly more than the 300 in a 16” barrel?

Not trying to be rude, but I don’t want a guess from someone who doesn’t own both. I want an opinion based on ownership and experience.

Thanks

 

[Huskydriver]

That’s exactly why I asked this in the stupid forum. I knew someone would ask why it matters.

If I were going to build a 16” bolt rifle for my daughter to shoot for fun and practice (and of course I would shoot it too), theoretically I want the cartridge with the least noise and blast.

We will be wearing hearing pro. I reload, and we would be shooting supers unsupressed.

I don’t want to know how to mitigate or get around the blast - I know that.

I just want to know are they too similar to tell or matter? Or is the 223 going to be significantly more than the 300 in a 16” barrel?

Not trying to be rude, but I don’t want a guess from someone who doesn’t own both. I want an opinion based on ownership and experience.

Thanks

Blast will be similar and negligible. Recoil however, will be very noticeable. Full power 300 blk loads will have significantly more recoil than a even the heaviest 223 loads FYI.

 

[j-huskey]

Some cartridges are louder than others. Shooting a 22 short versus a 22 stinger.
Shooting a 32 short versus a 357 magnum.
Shooting a 20 gauge light load versus a 10 gauge.
Shooting a 223 versus a 300wm.
Shooting a 308 versus a .50 BMG.

The handgun cartridges are notably different from across the range in sound.
The shotguns notably different across a dove field.
The big guns notable across a range, a field, a battlefield.
Most combat vets from WW2 could tell you the difference in a M1 Garand versus a Mauser.
Most from Vietnam know the difference in an AK versus a m16.
Fired single shot, the 16 had a crack versus the SKS and AK pop.

You can definitely tell the difference in high grade versus low grade explosives.

The sharpness, or brisiance, of the bang is different based on generally the powder burn rate.

In suppressed fire, the supersonic crack is pretty much the same up close.

The differences in suppressor manufacturing would indicate the differences in sound reductions based on cartridge sizes alone. A 50 bmg suppressor, based on the amount of powder burn both inside and outside the barrel, requires a much bigger unit than a 308.

In looking at suppressors, the 300 blackout is the easiest to suppress at a quieter decibel rate than other calibers, and this is an industry known.

Me, personally, using both calibers, blackout and 223 on pigs, suppressed and non suppressed, have seen a difference in the sharpness of the sounds, the smaller the fireball, the less sharp a crack/bang/boom.

Using a noveske flame pig on both, the blackout sounds quieter from behind the rifles because it directs the sound forward.

Using a flat muzzle, you get one sound at the shooter.
Using a bird cage flash suppressor, you get another.
Using a muzzle brake, you get yet another, generally painful on the shooter, the bigger the weapon, the nastier the sound coming back.
And on the flame pig, yet another sound.

Based on the amount of powder burned inside the barrel, BO vs 223, the one that burns all the powder inside versus the huge fireball outside, will give a different sound signature.
The BO is quieter to me. Pop versus crack. I dont see that much difference in recoil, a 55 grain bullet at 2800 fps, versus a 110 at 2400. Its a softer push on the BO.

When I put 5 hunters out on a flat field at night, the non suppressed BO sounds quieter to me than the non suppressed 223, 7.62x39, 6 5 grendel, and definitely the 308.
I can definitely HEAR the difference sitting in a golf cart 50-75 or more yards behind them.

BUT, HOWEVER, and all that, we will never know just how much reduction in the noise without a meter.

 

[rookie7]

Blast will be similar and negligible. Recoil however, will be very noticeable. Full power 300 blk loads will have significantly more recoil than a even the heaviest 223 loads FYI.

Thanks for the input. She is recoil sensitive even though she hasn't shot anything larger than a 300 blackout. She is about to turn 12, and I don't want to push her into anything that will cause her to develop bad habits or a flinch.

I have a 22 for her to shoot and practice with, but I want her to get behind a centerfire more. I need it to have the least blast and recoil.

To all the bystanders, the answer may have been obvious - and maybe it has been to me as well. However, a different perspective and experience can always help.

You all may see something I may have missed.

 

[Huskydriver]

Thanks for the input. She is recoil sensitive even though she hasn't shot anything larger than a 300 blackout. She is about to turn 12, and I don't want to push her into anything that will cause her to develop bad habits or a flinch.

I have a 22 for her to shoot and practice with, but I want her to get behind a centerfire more. I need it to have the least blast and recoil.

To all the bystanders, the answer may have been obvious - and maybe it has been to me as well. However, a different perspective and experience can always help.

You all may see something I may have missed.

Sounds like you need a can on that boomstick afterall it's for your daughter doesn't she deserve the best??

 

[308pirate]

Instead of worrying about the noise each one makes pick the one with the least recoil and outfit your kid with double hearing protection.

 

[j-huskey]

Instead of worrying about the noise each one makes pick the one with the least recoil and outfit your kid with double hearing protection.

I'm working on a 10 year old that's not afraid of guns, but, we have run into a problem with him and a couple of smaller shooters, due to their facial structure and size of ear muffs, double protecting, the muffs hit the stock causing cheek position problems, and grouping issues.
Using different size muffs, the farther from the stock it pushes their head, the worse the shadow effect in the scope, and poi shifts.
Its something to be aware of. You will have to deal with it.
The 10 year old loves it, the 9 year old girl loves hunting, but hates the muffs.
10...

And 9...

 

[rookie7]

@j-huskey what are they shooting?

Also, congrats - one: on the kills two: that you have children who enjoy shooting and hunting!

 

[j-huskey]

@rookie7

This week was a reminder of the muff issue and head placement.
10 year old got his own 6.5 creedmore for Christmas last year and killed his 2nd deer with it. It is zeroed for him and the boxy Walmart muffs mom n dad got him.
10 year old gets to shoot 100, 200, 300, using reticle holds in the scope. And he understands real clear things some adults dont. His level of competitive is off the charts.
This week, they came to shoot and forgot the Walmart muffs..
I let him use my MSA/Sordin electronics. The profile is very different btw the two muffs and changed his head placement. He was missing poi by 2" at 100, and completely missed 300.
This was one very upset boy... I shot the rifle, and it wasnt off. Took a little bit of watching to figure out what happened.
His grandfather showed up with Walmart muffs. Kid is back hitting poi at 100 and 300.

His mom is kinda pissed at me. He now wants $300.00 electronic muffs... he shoots better with them.

This is my great nephew. He's got what it takes to be a Champion shooter. All of our family shoot. It's a way of life for us.

10 year old is using 6.5 creedmore.
9 year old is shooting 243.

Both shoot 22 and 223 AR's. Neither are afraid of guns. Both were started shooting 22's when they were 5. Yes, other non gun people think we are crazy. We think the same about them.

I very much respect your efforts with yours.

 

[LawnMM]

223 is the better youth/practice round, longer range, less recoil, cheaper to fire.

 

[Currycure]

I really like 300 blackout, I really think it is a good round, but it will never be as prevalent as 223/5.56 sadly.

There are a lot of people that say it doesn't matter what other people have, its only what YOU have on hand. My only counter to that is you can't fight a war with one person. I don't think it's the most likely situation, but I can see a case where small groups could form, then towns, and maybe even militia/army sized groups...

As boring as 223/5.56 ( and 308/7.62 ) is, it has the highest likelihood of being around, being common, being supported, being traded, being used, etc.

Have you ever played around with making lower power 308 loads to duplicate the performance of a 300 blackout? Subsonic is Subsonic.

 

[j-huskey]

@Currycure

Subsonic 762 is easy in a bolt gun, almost too easy.

Reduced 762 velocity loads to blackout supersonic velocity of 2100 to 2400 gets interesting because of case fill differences resulting in extreme spreads and standard deviations affecting accuracy.

Has been done back in the day with cast lead bullets and gas checks in the 30.06, I've shot a bunch. But.

A lot of work for teaching a 12 year old to shoot and keeping them interested in the sport, from the OP's original intent.

It is an interesting concept though. Couple of threads on 762 subs past 300, and people have made gas guns function with subs, and it's really interesting.

I've shot a bunch of pigs with subs with extremely dissapointing results, and I've pest shot armadillos off golf courses at night. In those cases, it was bullet placement required, and subs were still sub performers.

Had several good head shots not make them dead right there and the blue haired residents raised hell finding dead armadillos in their flower beds and car ports...???

 

[wade2big]

The 300 BO isn’t as obnoxious as 556. A shorty 300BO with no suppressor is pleasant to shoot. Not nearly the case with a short 556.

 

[Shifter]

I used to have a .300 aac ar15 that I know sounded louder to everyone around me at the range than a .223 ar15. I know this because the would pause and look.
That said... I hade a muzzle break on it that made the GUN sound louder than the ROUND actually was. Side by side and all things equally applied... I think the .223/5.56 feels louder. Might be due to the increased velocity.

Like shooting .357 sig next to .40sw
They really shouldn’t be much different... but if you have shot them... you know they are! I HATE SHOOTING .357sig, but .40 doesn’t bother me at all.