.300 blk out hunting bullets

[408w]

What are you guys using for subsonic hunting bullets? I reload my own stuff. Looking for something in the midrange price wise that works. Hornady has there subsonic ammo but doesn’t sell the bullets only. I have tested some hunting bullets with very poor results.

 

[spife7980]

For subsonic they all suck. Some such as the makers bullets can expand more reliably but they are 2x as expensive.

I gave up the subsonic hunting, too many hits that still run off.

 

[fdkay]

You'll get good penetration but zero expansion with heavy subsonics.
Might as well shoot them with .45acp hardball, at least you have diameter going for you.
110 grain Tac-x or GMX should work very nicely running as fast as you can get them to go.

 

[AK4900PA]

I have no first hand experience killing things with subs, but the 194gr Lehigh is supposed to be good. Expensive though.

I'll second the 110gr Barnes black tips though. They expand beautifully. My uncle used them out of my 300blk on a hog hunt. 4 rounds, 4 hogs. 3 of them DRT . Couldn't ask for much more.

 

[Crews]

The very first question is why in the shit do you want to hunt with subsonic to begin with? I am not claiming you are, because I don’t know you. But I hear a lot of really uneducated folks go this route because they read on the internet that 300blk is only good for subsonic.

As far as legit hunting, I have had excellent results with 125 SST’s.

 

[408w]

The only reason the 300 blk out exists is to be shot subsonic. Night hunting is the reason.

 

[AP2020]

The only reason the 300 blk out exists is to be shot subsonic. Night hunting is the reason.

Copy that , 1/3 of these kills with my 300BLK subsonics.

 

[Crews]

Went out with some thermal hardware one night last month and killed 15 hogs before the sun came up, none of them seemed to care that we were shooting supersonic ammo out of our SBR’s. Got to actually watch them die when the bullets hit them too. To each his own I guess. Good luck!

 

[spife7980]

The only reason the 300 blk out exists is to be shot subsonic. Night hunting is the reason.

You mean so you can easily fit a 30 cal in a small frame ar without a new mag system.

I use mine for thermaling. Trust me, subsonics suck. Unless you hit a central nervous system component they are running off. I’ve gone to 150 grain gamekings at 1800 fps, makes way more blood and I don’t have 50% of them running off anymore.
Oh, and the subsonics are still loud, the pigs aren’t going to just hang around waiting on you to shoot a second standing still.

You can also easily watch them die with a supper sonic and you don’t have to watch as many run off.

 

[Yondering]

The only reason the 300 blk out exists is to be shot subsonic. Night hunting is the reason.

That may be the only reason you're interested in it, but that sure isn't the only reason it exists. It's not even the best reason.

To the OP - don't even bother with most of the heavy 30 cal bullets from the major manufacturers, they're intended for much higher velocity use. If you want any sort of decent performance, you'll need to choose something specifically designed for subsonic use. The only commercial offering I could recommend is the 194 Lehigh. The other good option is to learn to cast your own heavy hollow point bullets and powder coat them for suppressor use; those can kill effectively but I don't know of a commercial option for them that I'd trust.

 

[SPAK]

I’ve taken 5 deer with the Lehigh 194gr ME. 1050fps.

All lung shot, from 30-100 yards. None have gone more than 30 yards. They behave like broad heads so if you treat them that way you shouldn’t have any problems. Don’t shoot shoulders, stick with lung shots.

If you want to shoot heads and shoulders I’d use a 208 eld although I haven’t taken any game with them so the results will be on you.

 

[deersniper]

The only reason the 300 blk out exists is to be shot subsonic. Night hunting is the reason.

Pretty sure it was supposed to replace the MP5SD while adding the capability to penetrate body armor.

 

[deersniper]

220 smk work fine if you place them properly.
I would think these would work great

 

[deersniper]

The only reason the 300 blk out exists is to be shot subsonic. Night hunting is the reason.

Pretty sure it was developed/standardized to replace the MP5SD and add body armor penetration capability. They spent a lot of time ensuring super/sub capibility

You might be correct about 300 whisper

 

[MarinePMI]

All I can say is, don't shoot anything with 130gr SOST bullets that you intend to eat (because they shred the shit out of anything they hit).

 

[408w]

That’s the hornady ammo above that I wish they would sell just the bullets so I could load my own.

 

[Raffica762]

I hunted with subs..I know a dude that only bow hunts on his land..he lets me run sub sonic though. Shot placement is key most definitely..I used Outlaw state bullets’ pills Maker makes a good bullet too

 

[oldfatguy]

The most important factor is bullet placement, not what bullet you use.

OFG

 

[Yondering]

The most important factor is bullet placement, not what bullet you use.

OFG

That's a pretty small distiction without much value, and if we're talking about subsonic 30 cal bullets for hunting, bullet choice comes a real close second place to shot placement. Good shot placement doesn't necessarily make up for a bullet that just pencils through with minimal damage; we're not talking about full power 308 where even an FMJ is prone to tumbling and doing a lot of damage.

It's not a one or the other thing though, why can't you have good shot placement with good bullets?

 

[oldfatguy]

Gut shot with the very best bullet is still gut shot. Put one in his ear and a 22 LR will put his lights out. A 220 grn 30 cal sub has plenty of energy if placed properly.

OFG

 

[Yondering]

Nobody's talking about gut shot. It's foolish to imply that using good bullets means you'll gut shoot deer.

As a hunter, I'll take a hit 1" off target with a good bullet every time over a perfect hit with a bullet that just pencils through. That is the difference that bullet choice makes.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Gut shot with the very best bullet is still gut shot. Put one in his ear and a 22 LR will put his lights out. A 220 grn 30 cal sub has plenty of energy if placed properly.

OFG

I tried culling deer with 300BLK and subs several years ago. Lots of deer hammered through the lungs with 208 Amax's only to be found days or weeks later, some over a mile away, with a .30 cal hole in and out. Virtually no internal damage.

Do shots that hit the heart put them down faster? Yes. Do headshots put them down on the spot? Yes, if you hit the brain. The issue is how small those targets are for field shots with something that has almost rainbow like trajectory. If you can get a solid range and dial dope, sure it could work, but why? The chance of having time like that and being able to move for all of that when you're within 300BLK range is also pretty much non existent.

You can think what you want, but as someone who tried it (a lot), I know it's a shitty option.

I picked up some of the Hornady expanding ammo and not only was it not subsonic in both of my guns, the groundhog I shot with it (long ways on the body) shows zero expansion which gives me doubts if it would expand on a deer either.

The Barnes 110gr Tac-TX and Sig 120gr HT work phenomenally on deer sized game to about 200 yards though.

 

[oldfatguy]

Nobody's talking about gut shot. It's foolish to imply that using good bullets means you'll gut shoot deer.

As a hunter, I'll take a hit 1" off target with a good bullet every time over a perfect hit with a bullet that just pencils through. That is the difference that bullet choice makes.

300 BLK subs are very specialized rounds with lower noise, when suppressed, being the only thing they bring to the game. So if your application demands lower noise, shot placement is much more critical then with faster, expanding bullets. As stated, penciling thru lungs is not good. But a brain, high shoulder, or low spine hit will work very well.

OFG

 

[Snuby642]

So this is a load I'm testing tomorrow.
Spife, gave me input on it, much appreciated.
220 Hornady interlocks, 11.4 -12gr test to work up to 12.1 max of cfe blk.
It's more of an accuracy thing with me. If I cant get a headshot on cull deer and pigs,
They get to walk. Just my situation, not for everyone's liking.

Wanted to go flat base for a sub preformance test, we will see.

With that said the new Hornady's look nice if they are accurate.

pagination Pl

 

[Snuby642]

Btw.
A bullet of any caliber slid in behind the ear in the soft spot doesn't have to expand,
make a sonic crack, or even a peep with a good can.

If conditions allow, thats the way I like it.

For the long range conditions leave the sub gun at home.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The issue is doing that. Pretty much any heavy 30 cal bullet running 1050 drops a foot from 100-150 yards. Taking shooter error out completely, mis judging the range by more than 10 yards is going to result in missing the brain entirely and you’ve wounded an animal.

Unless you’re on an LE team doing culling in an urban area there is absolutely no good reason to not just use a decent supersonic bullet or a much larger subsonic bullet unless you just want to play Tactical Tom while chasing Bambi.

If you really insist on subsonic hunting then ditch the 300BLK for something else that you can take a reasonable shot with given the terrible trajectory and leave a big enough hole in the vitals. 9mm with 147 HST’s actually works very well.

 

[supercorndogs]

You mean so you can easily fit a 30 cal in a small frame ar without a new mag system.

I use mine for thermaling. Trust me, subsonics suck. Unless you hit a central nervous system component they are running off. I’ve gone to 150 grain gamekings at 1800 fps, makes way more blood and I don’t have 50% of them running off anymore.
Oh, and the subsonics are still loud, the pigs aren’t going to just hang around waiting on you to shoot a second standing still.

You can also easily watch them die with a supper sonic and you don’t have to watch as many run off.

I shot an Atenlope with a 40 S&W. I shot it with a rifle and it went down. I thought it was dead. When I got about ten feet away, it jumped and ran broadside to me. I shot it four times. 3 180g hollow points at 1100fos into the the lungs, one in the spine and it crumpled. Like spife said subs don't kill well because of energy. You see very little cavitation or blood shot meat. I thought I was missing it because it seemed unaffected. I didn't know all the shots hit until I gutted it and found the bullets. i didn't get the one in the spine until I was cutting out back straps. I hate ruining back straps.

Subs aren't going to make you so quiet the coyotes can't hear you. They heard you fart when you got out of the truck. I have seen them hear a safety click off form 75y, and I have called multiples to one spot, after shooting them with unsuppressed supersonics. A 22-250 makes a nice crack.

Basically, just what he said.^^^^^^^^^ and redneckBMXER

 

[supercorndogs]

Btw.
A bullet of any caliber slid in behind the ear in the soft spot doesn't have to expand,
make a sonic crack, or even a peep with a good can.

If conditions allow, thats the way I like it.

For the long range conditions leave the sub gun at home.

Yea, but you just need a 22lr for that.

 

[Snuby642]

The issue is doing that. Pretty much any heavy 30 cal bullet running 1050 drops a foot from 100-150 yards. Taking shooter error out completely, mis judging the range by more than 10 yards is going to result in missing the brain entirely and you’ve wounded an animal.

Unless you’re on an LE team doing culling in an urban area there is absolutely no good reason to not just use a decent supersonic bullet or a much larger subsonic bullet unless you just want to play Tactical Tom while chasing Bambi.

If you really insist on subsonic hunting then ditch the 300BLK for something else that you can take a reasonable shot with given the terrible trajectory and leave a big enough hole in the vitals. 9mm with 147 HST’s actually works very well.

As usual some elitist steps in and says its not a tool to be deployed except for le.
Anyones personal reason to use subs and a can for taking game or pests,
As long as legal should not endure scrutiny from such.

As with any caliber, shooter should know the limits of their system.
Personaly 100 yards is my limit for game with subs, and if a good shot is not
Presented, no shot is taken. Some times you wait, some times you pass.

I call bullshit card on anyone that thinks that to be unethical.
Get over yourself.

 

[deersniper]

I don't know what ethical has to do with it. No one talks about ethics when killing pigs or roaches or rats.

One guy here said he purposefully gut shot a coyote because it had a fawn in its mouth. That's beyond fucked up but no one bats an eye. Let someone talk about shooting long legged Lyme disease carrying rats with subs or from ELR and its on.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

As usual some elitist steps in and says its not a tool to be deployed except for le.

So you fall under the Tactical Tom category then? Thanks for clearing that up.

Don't forget your plate carrier with 12 mags, knee and elbow pads, and tactical beef jerky when you're out in the woods operating this season.

 

[Snuby642]

So I guess anyone with a can is a tactical tommy?
No need for them unless you are le I suppose.

Or maybe some people just like to shoot without disturbing the rest of the hunting area.

Thanks for confirming your eleatist attitude. "Clasic"
And we wonder why support for le dwindles.

 

[Fig]

Suppressors should be an over the counter item with no check at all. The $200 stamp is the only legal part of the NFA. Fuck unconstitutional bullshit.

 

[spife7980]

I think were getting emotional with our responses in here. Obviously shooting it with a sub will be damaging and more than capable of killing.

But to hint that a super sonic isnt vastly more effective than a subsonic overall is disingenuous at best.

 

[Snuby642]

The mag on my 300 blk is stock bottom metal as I normaly only take one shot per day.

The rest of the day is for prossesing.

I use a short mag in my ar's for hunting but keep a long one handy in case somebody
Comes around that thinks they are in charge.

 

[Fig]

I think were getting emotional with our responses in here. Obviously shooting it with a sub will be damaging and more than capable of killing.

But to hint that a super sonic isnt vastly more effective than a subsonic overall is disingenuous at best.

Well yea, but he said a 147gr 9mm sub is better than a 225gr .300BLK sub? That's just as disingenuous.
Nothing is going to beat a Beowulf or a SOCOM by the same logic. Bigger is definitely better if you have a speed limit, period.

 

[Snuby642]

Suppressors should be an over the counter item with no check at all. The $200 stamp is the only legal part of the NFA. Fuck unconstitutional bullshit.

I'm sure that some on this thread would like it if only they could have cans!

 

[deersniper]

It's not cool unless it's tactical.
You're a tactical tom unless you have a blues thin barrel and a wood stock. And a Leo Pold

 

[Fig]

Cans? That's just retarded. Why not stand up for your real beliefs and say that only LEOs should have firearms? What do cans have to do with anything other than being more polite and possibly hunting varmints. Cans are literally a non issue unless someone wants to invent it.

If a .300 BLK in insufficient to kill deer your head is going to explode when you hear how many deer have been kilt by a .30-30, because they're ballistically similar. There are plenty of farmers who will be interested to hear that their .30-30 Winchester lever isn't ethical to hunt with.

 

[riot1013]

Pretty sure it was developed/standardized to replace the MP5SD and add body armor penetration capability. They spent a lot of time ensuring super/sub capibility

You might be correct about 300 whisper

Correct. The original intent for 300 BO was to allow operators to engage target indoors relatively quietly and still have self defense capability in the street by dropping a mag and loading up some supers.

Before this you had a set of significant compromises:
1. An Mp5 that sucked at range but was quiet indoors, or
2. A 5.56 that was very loud, even suppressed, indoors but had better stand-off capability outdoors.

The 300 BO allows an individual to be both quiet indoors and lethal at range with the same gun.

The special units are using the 110 gr Tac-TX Barnes bullet for supers btw. Not sure about subs.

 

[408w]

Ok, so I shoot it clean through with an arrow going 200fps. (killed plenty of deer in the 90’s/ not the bows of today) or a 220g bullet going say 950 FPS. Someone run the numbers of energy on target.

 

[408w]

I found an old arrow. Weighing in at 493g

 

[Fig]

The idea that "energy" (i.e. velocity trumps mass and inertia) is the key to hunting comes from non-hunters and ehunters.

The whole reason behind the old TKO index and countless stories from Africa (where there is actual thick-skinned, dangerous game) is because trying to base it on easy to calculate energy doesn't track in the real world. Talking about energy alone ignores terminal ballistics and inertia. Unless you hit CNS (in which case .22 is often entirely adequate) animals die via exsanguination. Lung /heart/lung is ideal because nothing bleeds faster.
Hydrostatic shock is the attempt to find something in the real world to justify using simplistic calculations of "energy" rather than penetration and exsanguination.

 

[deersniper]

These 22s are entirely adequate for heart/lung shots. From what I hear. Unless you guys have mutant deer or something

 

[408w]

Velocity and mass do trump. Along with expansion of the bullet. Put them into a calculator. Blk round produces 441ft/lbs of kinetic energy. The bow produces 44ft/lbs. If it wasn’t a factor then why do the hearts look like jello when shot rather than just have a hole in them.

 

[Snuby642]

I had not seen a deer heart in over 15 years when I figured out just where it lays.
Wait for it, wait for it, press and down, never one step more.
Recently went to head shots at closer ranges when available.

Unlike me, the deer still have hearts come to find out.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Velocity and mass do trump. Along with expansion of the bullet. Put them into a calculator. Blk round produces 441ft/lbs of kinetic energy. The bow produces 44ft/lbs. If it wasn’t a factor then why do the hearts look like jello when shot rather than just have a hole in them.

They're very different things.

Yes the 300BLK sub will have more energy but when it's penciling through that energy is not going on the target. That arrow is going to have a razor sharp broadhead that will cut a wide path going through. Less energy yes, but far more fatal.

Get the 300BLK to pedal open and it's a different story, but I'm not aware of any bullet that reliably expands in a 300BLK and subsonic speeds. Hornady advertises one, but it doesn't expand as claimed.

 

[spife7980]

Ok, so I shoot it clean through with an arrow going 200fps. (killed plenty of deer in the 90’s/ not the bows of today) or a 220g bullet going say 950 FPS. Someone run the numbers of energy on target.

The difference is that the bullet will be a .308" hole while carrying much of that energy through the target and on out the other side and causing no other damage outside that small tunnel.
The arrow will be cutting up at least an inch wide severing many more arteries and letting the blood out faster.

That said Im not a fan of bow hunting either but thats mainly because the only deer I really ever have to track down are shot by other people bow hunting.

These 22s are entirely adequate for heart/lung shots. From what I hear. Unless you guys have mutant deer or something

Yeah, entirely adequate if they are already in surgery split open with the heart and lung exposed. No way in hell would I trust it going through the shoulders and causing enough damage for a quick death.

Now, if I were shooting it out of the shop window at 15 feet in the head, sure. But for hunting out in the field you would have to be an idiot to choose a 22lr over literally anything else above a sling shot.

 

[deersniper]

Must be mutant deer. Ribs and skin aren't very thick.

 

[spife7980]

Must be mutant deer. Ribs and skin aren't very thick.

Ok, go shoot a fucking deer in the chest with a 22 then and let us know how it works out for you. Jesuz christo people.